Yahoo Message Number: 3379 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3379)
I'm investigating high end batteries.... Lifeline and Rolls. Does anyone have an opinion on either one? Any experience with either?
Although the Rolls is a lead-acid (as opposed to the AGM Lifeline)it has a very long warranty.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 3380 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3380)
There are no flooded(lead acid) batteries that can take the abuse of AGM's. Faster charging , and NO maintenance . The AGM's do not gas , so if you should want the compartment can be sealed off and the batteries stay clean. Almost forgot NO CORROSION. Almost all new total electric com with AGM's.
Good luck
Bob Ewing
Yahoo Message Number: 3382 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3382)
I installed Lifelines for the coach The only trouble I've had is the Heart charger will overheat and turn itself off if the batteries are low. The AGMs have such low resistance that the charger overheats but so far it hasn't failed (over a year). You might check out other chargers and see if you can find one that has current limiting so this is not a problem. I asked CC about it and they had nothing to offer. jerry in NM, '00 Magna.
Yahoo Message Number: 3386 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3386)
Dick, have you worn out the batteries already? If I was rich and just wanted to change, I would go for the AGMs. They are sealed, no gassing, no leaking, and you can install them upside down if you want. Don't know anything about the Rolls batteries, just heard about them this week. I think by the time we really need to look at changing batteries (3-4 years) there will be some new technology out there. Nice to have met you and your wife at the factory last month.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 3388 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3388)
Dick
Not sure about the brands you mentioned. I have been looking at replacing my batteries as well. I currently have the original 8D batteries from Les Schawb. One 8D for the engine and two 8D house batteries that are labeled deep cycle. I question the house batteries as actually being a true deep cycle. The house batteries do no want to hold a charge for long. With battery switches off, the batteries will be very low after 7-10 days. I checked batteries with hydrometer and found a cople of cell reading much lower than adjacent cells, giving an indication of shorted cells.
I made a visit to the local Battery Depot and discussed AGM batteries and the 8D batteries. The technician indicated that most likely the 8D's I have are not true deep cycle batteries. He said that he could sell me 8D's, but I would not get the expected service time out of them. As for AGM, he indicated they are great as long as the charging system is set up for the charge rate they require. However, he indicated that none of these are as good as a true deep cycle such as those built by Trojan for a golf cart. .....and they are cheaper.
There is something about a sealed battery like the AGM I have never liked. You cannot check its condition. At least with a wet cell you can periodically check it to see if the battery is degraded before it goes completely dead.
So, I am thinking of changing to the Trojan 6 volt batteries hooked in series pairs then in a parallel bank for the house batteries and staying with the 8D size for the engine cranking battery. I have not measured it yet, but I think I can get 3 pairs of the Trojans in place of the two 8D's. Since two 6-volt Trojan's have more power than one 8D battery, this will give me a total of over 40% more power capacity than the two 8D batteries. Also that way if I get a shorted cell in one of the batteries, I am only replacing one 6-volt battery at a cost $55 each. The Trojan's are very common nationwide. An 8D battery ranges from $120-200 each.
Any comments, suggestions, opinions welcome. Has anyone done this?
Jim Hughes
Jacksonville, FL
2000 Allure 40' #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 3390 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3390)
Same here, Don.
As for my batteries..... they stink. I can't go through the night on them.
They "checked them" at the factory and said that they are fine. BULL! Something is wrong.... either
I've taken good care of them. The coach is parked in my driveway with 30 amp service. Never over depleted them..... nothing but distilled water in them.... equalized them three times in 14 months. The readout on my Trace shows the proper charging level on generator and shore power. I just have to assume that the batteries are weak. I'm not finished with CC yet but I have to do something.
Although nobody ever accused me of being rich I am bothered enough by the battery woes that I'll go for best I can afford.... just like I did with choosing a motorhome.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 3391 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3391)
Jim,
I like the plan.... but I'm not sure that I'm that adventuresome.
Have you run this by the folks at CC? What AH rating do you end up with compared to the 2 8Ds? Will your inverter/converter handle that configuration?
Keep me posted if you don't mind.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 3392 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3392)
Dick,I think I have a theory on the batteries and the way we look at them as being almost dead over night. We are headed to the desert Thursday so let me look at it again and put something down on paper.
Don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Me thinks it has something to do with where the low battery cutoff voltage is set. I think that voltage is used as the number where the controller thinks the battery is dead and the fuel gage will indicate the percentage of charge left to reach that voltage. Our coach has been sittting now for three weeks so it will be interesting to see what the batteries look like.
When it was parked the voltage was 13.0.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 3395 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3395)
Do two of the Golf Cart Batteries measure the same exterior dimensions and one 8D?
Joey
'98 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 3398 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3398)
Don.... I think you are right about the cutoff point. Mine is set at 11.4 VDC which is supposed to be about 50 % of completely discharged. My contention is that without being too frugal we should make it overnight without hitting that point.
We stopped at a Wal-Mart on the way home from Junction City.... after being on the road at interstate speeds and voltage reading in the low 13 volt area. As a test I set the gen on auto-start and about 5AM it started.
There's no way we can enjoy any dry camping with that kind of service from a battery.
I've got to get something done.
Let me know what your readings are when you can.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 3401 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3401)
Yahoo Message Number: 3402 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3402)
Yahoo Message Number: 3403 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3403)
Just to let you all know that 2 years ago I replaced my 8d batteries with the interstate 6volt golf cart batteries and find they last longer then the 8d with less weight then the agm's plus if a problem occurs they are easier to replace thanks Brian
intrigue 10030 95
Yahoo Message Number: 3404 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3404)
My original batteries would not hold a charge. I got lucky with those, a technician at Beaudry RV in Tucson told me that most of the batteries he sees on CC have problems. He said I am not going to mess around with them.I will just replace them and he did (under warranty.) At that time I had only owned the coach about 3 weeks, they wouldn't hold a charge overnight and were basically worthless.
Believe me my next batteries will not be the 8D batteries that Les Schwab provides. I will replace them with golf cart batteries, real rv batteries!
Ray
2000 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 3405 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3405)
Hi Jim. Yes, I changed the two 8D house batteries for four 6v Interstate deep cycle batteries last August. You are probably right that 6 should fit but I elected to use four of them. However, it will be very difficult getting to the cells in the rear most batteries if you go with 6 of them. I had used Trojans previously in my last gas coach and got 5 good years out of them when I traded in that coach for the Allure. While I wanted Trojans again I got the Interstate for free and they seem to be quite good too. As long as one is willing to check the batteries periodically, and add distilled water when necessary, I would stick with the wet cells.
Mike Lewis 2000 Allure #30493
On Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:03:13 -0000 "Jim Hughes" kc4fws@...> writes:
Yahoo Message Number: 3407 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3407)
Two golf cart batteries are than one 8D. Four of them, which I use, are smaller in area than the original two 8D's. However, my battery data is at the motorhome so I cannot look up the info now...However, the following url's should procure sizes: www.interstatebattery.com (http://www.interstatebattery.com) www.trojanbattery.com (http://www.trojanbattery.com) for general info on batteries try the following: www.windsun.com/batteries/ (http://www.windsun.com/batteries/) www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt (http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt)
Hope this helps. Mike Lewis 2000 Allure #30493.
On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:38:16 -0500 "joeyc" joeyc@...> writes:
Yahoo Message Number: 3410 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3410)
I too am experiencing loss of battery power in a few hours. We dry camped last week and found that by running the Hurricane overnight and some TV the batteries were down to where I couldn't start the gen without the booster by about 5 AM. This is a seven month old coach which is always plugged in to 30amp power when parked at home and battery water is checked regularly. I also learned the hard way that the automatic gen start is not working although everything is properly programed.I called CC and was told by Doug Beaudry that the build plan shows I should have the gen start feature, so I'll get that corrected at Buddy Gregg's later this month. Have any of the other 2003 Allure owners had this problem?
Walt Rothermel
2003Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 3413 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3413)
Dick,
Don't have any opinions on the batteries you listed but if you change to gell or any other battery that is not the type that came with the coach, you need to reprogram some equipment. There is more to this then just changing batteries.
Bill G. 2001 Magna 5998
Yahoo Message Number: 3422 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3422)
Got it, Bill. Thanks
Yahoo Message Number: 3431 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3431)
Dick,
I looked at the the battery tray that is in my coach and holding the three 8D batteries. I do not think I will have enough room to do three pairs of two 6-volt batteries. However, I can get two pairs of Trojan T-145's in there with room to spare. There is no concern about pairing the 6 volt batteries up for a 12 volt bank. It would be the same as two 12 volt 8 D with more AH capacity. The 2 banks of 6 volt pairs would be rated for a total of 1060 minutes of capacity @ 25 Amps load. While two 8D's would be rated for a total of 900 minutes of capacity at the same load. If I can get the third pair in then I will have another 530 minutes capacity for a total of 1590 minutes @ 25 Amps load. A pair of T145's weigh about the same as one 8D battery. So, I may just do with the two pairs.
Jim Hughes
Jacksonville, FL
2000 Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 3434 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3434)
"Jim Hughes",
I too was curious so I measured the tray. You'll be about 2 1/2 inches short of being able to fit the two pairs of three trojans without changing the tray. Four 145's will fit fine.
Steve.............Intrigue #10673
Yahoo Message Number: 3457 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3457)
Jim,
Do you know what the expected life of those batteries are and what, if any, warranty they have?
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 3460 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3460)
And you can put the 4 batteries towards the front so that they are easier to work with.
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 02:13:59 -0000 "rheavn" ssfarms1@...> writes:
Yahoo Message Number: 3466 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3466)
With the T-145's four of them should be plenty. I used four T-105's in the past but that was with a gas Bounder without an inverter...CC's also seem to have hidden losses even with the battery disconnect switches off...
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 01:34:17 -0000 "Jim Hughes" kc4fws@...> writes:
Yahoo Message Number: 3468 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3468)
I bought a used coach earlier this year. The previous owner had installed six Exide E3600 golf cart batteries in place of the two 8D coach batteries. He simply installed simple angle irons at the front and right edges of the batteries to compensate for the size variation.
The footprint of six golf cart batteries appears to be about 2" deeper and 1" narrower than the footprint of two 8D batteries. So six CAN be installed in at least some models.
I haven't dry camped with the coach yet so I can't really comment on the actual performance of this configuration.
The Exide web site didn't seem to contain any battery specs, but a Google search for "Exide" and "E3600" returned a couple web sites with the following information:
"Exide E-3600 batteries are rated at 220 amp-hours at the 20 hour rate. The 6 volt batteries are 10 1/2 inches by 7 1/4 inches by 11 1/2 inches high, and weigh 62 pounds wet. This golf cart battery is ideal for solar applications. Its life span is 5 to 7 years with normal maintenance."
Prices seemed to be in the $60-70 range.
Other, possibly older, web sites give a 186 amp-hour rating (and higher prices) so I'm not sure which to believe.
--
Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Yahoo Message Number: 3472 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3472)
Steve
Thanks for the info. I looked closer yesterday and agree that I am about 2.5 inches short of putting in three pairs of T145 Trojans.
The tray on the inboard side is jammed up against a steel brace that runs fore and aft. Looks like 1.5x1.5 to 2x2 inches. Inboard of that is the expanded metal that vents the compartment. I could build an adapter tray that would step up and set on top of that 2x2 steel brace. Thus, getting three pairs of the batteries in there. I think this may be overkill, but I like a challenge. If nothing else, I'll put the two pairs and on paper solve the challenge to fit three pair. My only concern would be having adequate ventilation for the extra batteries. Especially during charging cycles.
Yesterday I discovered another challenge. In the 2000 Allure, and probably others, the Heart Freedom 20 inverter/charger has only a remote ON/OFF switch on the panel above the door. If batteries are going to be maintained properly, there needs to be a way to equalize them periodically. The remote ON/OFF switch does not control the equalization function. Equalization function is not part of the automatic functions of the charger and must be manually initiated.
In order to tap into all the features of the inverter/charger, I need to install a Remote Control Panel or a LINK 2000 control system. The LINK system is pricey and a bit overkill for $400 plus allot of work to install extra wiring and components. The basic Remote Control Panel FDM12-25 P/N 84-2056-01 will provide control of all the features (including equalization) and also give a reasonable display of battery condition information. Also, this panel uses the existing RJ-11 wiring already in the coach for the remote ON/OFF switch according to Country Coach.
I talked to Vern Huber at Country Coach yesterday afternoon and he confirmed my assumptions that there would be no problem in changing out the existing 8D batteries for the two T145 banks and installing the basic Remote Control Panel. As a matter of fact, Vern pointed out that it would be a waste to put a good set of Trojan batteries in the coach without adding the basic Remote Control Panel so the batteries could be properly maintained through periodic equalization. I have to agree. If the 8D house batteries had been occasionally equalized, I think I could have got more service out of them. As it is now, I have one cell in each that has no or extremely low specific gravity (1.100). Thus, indicating a shorted/bad cell.
I talked to Country Coach Parts to confirm the application P/N of the control panel and they indicated that they did not stock the panel and would only become a third party to any transaction. Doug in parts suggested I call Xantrex (they merged with Heart) direct to confirm the P/N application and identify a local supplier. I did a search on the net and found the control panel for $114 plus shipping from Bitterroot Solar
I am going to call Country Coach back today and find out exactly where they installed the Remote Panel option in the 2000 Allure and other coaches. Hopefully, the mounting installation will be simple and straight forward. Does anyone in the group have the Remote Control Panel option in their coach? Where is it installed?
Also, the recent discussion on replacement of wet cells with sealed gel or AGM batteries should be a concern. From what I have read, unless you have at least the Remote Control Panel option in the inverter/charger system, you cannot select to a different type of battery. The older Remote Control Panels used dip switches. On these, dip switches #2 and #3 control battery type and temperature that is crucial to charging rates that are different for gel type batteries. The newer Remote Control Panels use a touch pad control in lieu of dip switches according to Xantrex.
Sorry, for being long winded. I thought there might be others in the group interested in the details. That is what makes this group so great....sharing of information.
Jim Hughes
Jacksonville, FL
2000 Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 3474 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3474)
Jim,
I installed the Link 1000 in my '98 Intrigue. At the time it was $100. My coach had the on/off switch to the inverter on the side of the cabinet in the kitched area accross from the refrigeratorr.
The installatin was simple. Cut a hole in the cabinet where the on/off switch was, insert the Link, plug in the RJ-11 and go!
As to equalizing the 8D's..... it didn't help mine. I replaced them at about 2 years and they were about ready to go when I traded 2 years later.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 3478 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3478)
Jim, I installed a remote control on both of my previous coaches. On the '97 Intrigue I installed it next to the inverter switch under the cook stove surface unit. On the 2000 Intrigue, I installed it directly beneath the center of the control panel above the front door. Both installations required a little bit of cutting, but not much trouble.
Walt Rothermel
2003Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 3482 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/3482)
Jerry
turn itself off if the batteries are low.
This is not a battery or charger fault but the way CC installed the inverter in the Magnas up to 2001-2. The inverter is suppose to have at least a foot of space to exhaust the heat on the left side as you look at the charger, CC installed it right next to the wall of the air cleaner so it overheats on any bulk charging situation with any type battery. Opening the door will usually allow enough cool air to prevent the dreaded E-03 code. On the newer Magnas with the Hurricane furnace they moved the inverter to the right & I don't believe they have this problem. A lot of Prevosts have this overheating problem also.
Terry
99 Magna 5703