Yahoo Message Number: 54838 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54838)
I would like to make a proposal. If you agree, I propose that we ask CCI to make a bid for a copy of the records regarding our coaches. The build sheets, Parts lists, and all documents related to models say from 1995 to present. Since we only want a copy I would imagine we might get some cooperation from Wells Fargo and respective bidders. It would be good business to keep this forum happy. The hitch is in scanning these documents and the related cost. If CCI obtain the records, then through special assessment we could all pay for what we wanted.
I hope that Herb or moderator could head the forum group, and I feel that we could have very good results as we are customers or at least potential customers.
I am sure the new office manager would know exactly where to look. There is a good chance these files are pdf. files already. It certainly would be worth a try. If you think about it CCI could be the repository for a whole lot of data.
Jim Spivey 2006 Allure 31432
Yahoo Message Number: 54841 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54841)
I'd vote for that, but why not just buy the originals? And we would need some experts to verify that we are getting the whole enchilada.
Larry, 03 Allure, 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 54842 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54842)
Jim,
I for one have all my own records as I bought new and have kept the records. Sorry for the secondhand and later CC owners who did not get records or who did not think it was important to locate records in the past 5 or so years, BUT what would it cost to ALL of us to do this vs just billing those who WANT and NEED the records. If you think that we should ALL PAY a lot of money for some who are in NEED, then you are from the "left coast" and I for one would drop out of CCI.
bill n barb, poconos of pa, 1998 cc prevost 40'xl
Yahoo Message Number: 54843 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54843)
Bill,
Are you saying you have the build documents or just the binders with drawings which are provided with every coach? I have the documents which came with the coach but I would certainly like to have access to build documents/drawings, vendor data etc., I can generally find a source for most parts but there are times when it would be nice to have the original parts list with vendor part numbers for everything. I think there is value in Jim's suggestion.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
Yahoo Message Number: 54844 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54844)
I agree and would support such an endeavor with a few bucks and a limited ability to transfer/scan documents. CC was never that high a volume builder so that might help limit the job.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 54845 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54845)
Your experience is not necessarily equal to that of more recently built coaches. We are the original owners of an Inspire built in 2004 and previously owned a 2000 Intrigue. The Intrigue documentation was much more thorough than the Inspire's and was "as built" with notations on the plans showing what changes were made from the original design. No as built information is anywhere I can find for the Inspire which might mean there were no changes but I don't believe that. I am NOT saying this kind of information is available, I am saying the quantity and quality of information owners may or may not have has changed over the years with there being a possible greater need for more recent builds. The Inspire lacked information on entire systems which I requested soon after purchase. For instance I requested a copy of the air system schematics as they were not provided yet had been present for the Intrigue. I was told since the lines are color coded I didn't need a schematic and while that is true nothing beats knowing where to look and what is there before crawling around 40,000 miles of dirt and dust.
Neither the Intrigue nor the Inspire included any information on how the coach body itself was built. Folks who have replaced the head knocker TV's of earlier models were able to get diagrams from the factory showing where reinforcements were located, etc. a very big help when modifying an older coach. I would love to have as much of that information as I can get as we will keep this coach until it dies or we can't travel anymore.
I know it is a big assumption but I assume most, if not all, of this information is in the form of computer engineering files and not paper. There are free software packages than can read and display, but not modify, most any engineering software file. In many, if not most and maybe all cases, transfer of info to an owner about his/her coach could be in the form of computer files and no paper at all. The cost of that is minimal. If paper is needed that is another question; obviously most of the users of this list are fairly computer literate and some are willing to help those who are not.
The hardest part is having access to the information in the first place.
We need more information before jumping to a negative conclusion on an idea based on a sample of one.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 54846 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54846)
Count me in for the building doc.
Charlie & Lorraine Zecman
6162 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 54847 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54847)
Exactly Ray. And having owned coach 11066 I can assure you that you already have more documentation than many of us and there is much more that could be available from factory files.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 54850 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54850)
Please consider us in for helping attain the records.
Mike
Inspire 06 51784
Yahoo Message Number: 54852 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54852)
Count me in for build info about my coach. I do have the information that came with my coach when new, but the specific info about this individual unit would be very useful.
Tom R
2004 Allure 31026
Yahoo Message Number: 54863 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54863)
Mike pass along your interest to CCI.
Jim Spivey
Yahoo Message Number: 54864 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54864)
Ray pass along your interest to CCI
Jim Spivey
Yahoo Message Number: 54865 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54865)
Please pass along your interest to CCI.
Jim Spivey
Yahoo Message Number: 54866 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54866)
Larry pass along your interest to CCI.
Jim Spivey
Yahoo Message Number: 54867 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54867)
Bob pass along your interest to CCI.
Jim Spivey
Yahoo Message Number: 54869 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54869)
Thanks, Jim. Good idea. I will. Mike
Yahoo Message Number: 54870 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54870)
Subject to costs, I too would like to have whatever docs were available from CC in re to my LEXA 6177. When I obtained the coach, as third owner, I attempted to get these notes, docs and service records - if any - and was told that only the previous or original owner could access them (from the date of purchase through date of sale, i.e. each owner's records were private to that owner). In any event I'd be interested in their position now.
Yahoo Message Number: 54874 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54874)
All-
Records are going to be a combination of paper and electronic, and indexed to whatever extent they were left. There will be a minimal amount of time to examine paper records once they are the subject of auction lots, and I believe no meaningful time will be allotted to delve into what might be resident on hard drives (possible even that CPU's will be a lot and monitors a lot, etc.); more likely the computers will be auctioned in lots according to location (e.g. all the computers in one building = Lot# 105).
In order to get any intelligible access, CCI should contact Wells Fargo immediately to express interest, and request access to determine what might be bought in bulk. Whether Wells will entertain such an offer is speculation as it may look like small potatoes money-wise to an outfit w/bigger fish to fry. But that's where I would start IIWM, and I'd start this afternoon, as Wells' clock is ticking on this as we speak.
I made a suggestion a coupla weeks ago that CCI (being the only repository logically available), needed to initiate a library assembly function immediately. Whether by this mass acquisition of factory data, or by coach owner donation of copies, I still recommend that ASAP. There was one commenter that said he's out of CCI if club money goes to documents, as he still has his. I'd say CCI needs to assess this as an important new imperative, and if there will be a few souls estranged as a result, that's the price of defending the long term viability of coach repairs, remodels, maintenance, and the public perception of your coaches (i.e. the remaining value of an orphan Country Coach). Mike, Alpine Coach owner (so we are about a year ahead of you in this "orphan" thing).
Yahoo Message Number: 54875 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54875)
I would also be interested in historical/build information on my coach. How do we make this kind of a proposal? Please keep me up-to-date if this goes anywhere.
Thank you,
Chance Parker
1997 Intrigue 10387
Yahoo Message Number: 54878 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54878)
I think there is merit in this idea. Since I purchased new, I have the original documentation that came with my coach, including the "manual" which provided a surprising amount of information and drawings. I suspect however that there is a level of information below that, including specific part and supplier information, perhaps even as-builts. I, for one, would be willing to pay for all the associated manufacturing data associated with my coach. I guess a fundamental question would be, just how much additional information exists for specific coaches?
Bill and Donna Brumley
06 Inspire 51657
Yahoo Message Number: 54884 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54884)
Hi Jim S,
Your stuttering??
Chuck & Mary B
Red Bluff, Ca.
Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat
Yahoo Message Number: 54885 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54885)
I would say that who ever purchases the rights, copy righted materials, patents, name, etc would also want All documentation such as drawings, historical files, files, etc. That enity could then sell copies to the general public. The bankruptcy trustee will have the control as to how that will be split up for auction sales.
Chuck & Mary B
Red Bluff, Ca.
Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat
Yahoo Message Number: 54887 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54887)
What I am saying is that no one knows the COST yet. Sure, if people want to find out, go ahead, but BEFORE you spend CCI money it needs to be discussed with the club members. I realize that time-is-of-the-essence but that being said, it still needs to be financially investigated before you keep jumping-off-the-bridge and no one knows how deep the water below is or is NOT. BUT if it becomes expensive for each member, and I don't know what the definition of expensive is yet, YUP, I'm outa here.
And to respond to someone about the "BUILD DRAWINGS." I have no use for them as I know how mine is constructed. Sure I don't have "dimension drawings" for cabinets but I bet none of you do for your own homes that you live in 24/7. How many of you even have the spec sheets on the various mechanicals in your own homes?
bill n barb, poconos of pa, 1998 CC Prevost 40' XL
(I made a suggestion a coupla weeks ago that CCI (being the only repository logically available), needed to initiate a library assembly function immediately. Whether by this mass acquisition of factory data, or by coach owner donation of copies, I still recommend that ASAP. There was one commenter that said he's out of CCI if club money goes to documents, as he still has his. I'd say CCI needs to assess this as an important new imperative, and if there will be a few souls estranged as a result, that's the price of defending the long term viability of coach repairs, remodels, maintenance, and the public perception of your coaches (i.e. the remaining value of an orphan Country Coach). Mike, Alpine Coach owner (so we are about a year ahead of you in this "orphan" thing).)
Yahoo Message Number: 54888 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54888)
While the thought of buying the info is nice, all of that type of information will belong to whoever buys the name, proprietary info, copyrights, patents, customer lists, plans records, etc. It will not be broken down. Parliment Coach just recently bought all this info from the Bluebird sale.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 54889 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54889)
If anyone knows how much much Parliament Coach paid for the Blue Bird info, it would save a lot of speculation in this space. I believe it would be into 7 figures. It apparently cost over 3 Million dollars for CC to get CSA approval, so some other manufacturer would buy all the proprietary files and avoid that approval. With respect to the comments by Bob Lee in the Eugene paper, about there being no market for high end coaches , is just posturing to get a better deal for the assets. He does own the land and buildings , after all. If someone else buys the name, data, etc and don't do a deal with Bob Lee ( which may be difficult if he wants to purchase it ), then they would have to start from scratch elsewhere. In todays economy and how hard it would be to get funds, this would hardly be possible unless they had very deep pockets. No one with deep pockets , unless they have a passion for the business - which apparently Bob Lee does, is likely to get into the business unless they can absolutely steal it. Just my humble opinion
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 54890 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54890)
Perhaps we could convince Steve Mitchell at Parliament Coach to buy the CC info...
Parliament does excellent work and charges very reasonable prices... We would then have a dependable place to call on for parts, parts info, sevice info, etc., and a place to take our coaches when we need service, mods, or "fixes" we don't want to tackle ourselves...
And... Steve wouldn't treat us like orphans...
Buck
k7wn, '99 Magna#5653
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Yahoo Message Number: 54891 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54891)
The final cost will be determined when the auctioneer's gavel falls and he says "sold" on that given lot number.
Chuck & Mary B
Red Bluff, Ca.
Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat
Yahoo Message Number: 54892 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54892)
A NON PROFIT SHOULD NOT OWN THE RECORDS. LET A FOR PROFIT ENTITY OWN THEM.
JOHN DREBICK 06 AFFINITY 6550
Yahoo Message Number: 54893 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54893)
Buck,
If Parliament will not buy the records then maybe Jason Howard will with his alleged $50,400.00 comission check? Im sure the sucker who bought the Rhapsody will need lots of "service, mods, or fixes" since his 2 year warranty turned into 2 weeks.
I think Mikee has is pegged, who ever purchases the name, molds, and designs will also obtain all the records at data (except parts books & veranda patent). It will be interesting to see what happens next!
Matt
Inspire 51661 dry TWC
Yahoo Message Number: 54896 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54896)
Please count me in for all the build records. I have what came with my coach but as mentioned names and phone numbers of suppliers would be very good to have.
Ben Kitay
2008 Intrigue #12247
Yahoo Message Number: 54911 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54911)
Hello, We too would be interested in obtaining a copy of all the build data on our coach, 99 Intrigue, #10745. We are fortunate in that I believe we have most, but not all our documentation. Having a source to obtain the rest would be greatly appreciated.
Bill Brown, Intrigue 10745
Yahoo Message Number: 54914 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54914)
Truth of the matter is, CCI or any other individual or group of individuals on this forum, is not likely to buy CC's "Intellectual Properties"...
I base the above statement on the fact that Bluebird's "Intellectual Properties" sold for BIG bucks, and require two LARGE buildings for storage, due to the fact that much of the "properties" are in the form of "blueprint size" paper documents... The documents are kept on metal shelving, require an indexing and location system, and require personnel to access the appropriate docs when someone needs them...
Also, Country Coach produced MANY more vehicles over the years than Bluebird Wanderlodge, so the CC "Intellectual properties" would require MUCH more space for storage...
With all of the above in mind, I make the following suggestion:
CCI, or someone here on the forum, could keep a list of those CC owners that have documentation for their coach, and are willing to share the info with those owners that need info for troubleshooting, mods, fixes, etc.
For example, my ol' '99 Magna #5653 came with:
1.) a "User's Guide/Service Manual" that contains info on automotive, electrical, plumbing, control panels, etc., much of which is in the form of electrical, plumbing, pneumatic, etc., schematic drawings that not only have parts info, but indicate where the particular part is located.
2.) a "Dynomax Chassis" manual, containing info and schematics for the chassis "engine group", "transmission group", "axels and suspension", "air system", hydraulic system, electrical system, etc.
3.) An expandable file folder containing manufacturer's info on the equipment and appliances installed in the coach.
To sum up, I, and many others, don't need CC's "intellectual properties" and the problems that purchasing and maintaining them would create...
I am willing to share my documentation with anyone that is in need of it... Anyone else out there that is willing to share?
If so, all we need is someone to keep a list of those that have documentation for a particular coach and is willing to share said documentation with those that need it.
buck
k7wn, '99 Magna #5653
==========================================
Yahoo Message Number: 54919 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54919)
I have the Country Coach Users Guide and Service Manual and the Gillig Chassis Manuals (Owners Manual - Service Section, Owners Manual - Parts Section) for our coach. I have them scanned into 4 separate zip files.
Each page is a jpg scan of the page. At one time I had them loaded to my web page for a few folks and can do so again if there is interest.
However, there are components that are not documented. For instance, Dean has a problem with the 'fill' circuit board and this item was evidently designed by CC. There is no available schematic for it. I don't doubt there are many other small items that can be irritating to figure out if there is a problem.
Mike Cebula
'95 Magna 5266
Yahoo Message Number: 54920 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54920)
Quote: " Anyone else out there that is willing to share? " That is what we are doing now - this forum is a GREAT resource for owners, and I really appreciate it. The generosity of the ex-CC techs is also specifically appreciated.
I will NOT say "We don't need no stinking documentation", but the resources here daily compile information, and with the search function on the forum we have a growing, viable documentation source.
I will do whatever I can to contribute, and support this forum so it can continue.
Jack Nichols
2003 Intrigue 11527, and EVERYTHING WORKS!!!!! (For today, anyway ;*))
Yahoo Message Number: 54928 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54928)
I agree. At the end of the day this forum provides a service that far exceeds the value of any documents.
The collective knowledge of owners have, on several occasions, helped my to solve a problem. As long as we stay together and help each other no one needs to worry about a pile of paper work that would be 99% irrelevant.
The last CC on the road will be the only true orphan.
Bruce
2001 Intrigue #11278
bRUCE
2001 iNTRIGUE #11278
Yahoo Message Number: 54932 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54932)
Buck and Don you both have some good ideas along with alot of other folks. A Data Base of Owners willing to share Info, Drawings, etc is surely obtainable. A Data Base of CC Techs is a great idea especially in Coach Assembly and Service. I haven't read about anyone having much info on how our Coaches are assembled. For those of you on the West Coast you could have Techs within reasonable reach. For us on the East Coast it would be great just to email or Phone a Tech for assistance and guildance. Bet a lot of these CC Techs have contacts across the Country and could point where to go and who to see. It would be great not to go into a repair shop blind and being at the shops mercy. Provided with info knowing exactly what the problem is and where to look would be a great help to the Owner and Repair Facility. My gut tells me some of you reading this very Website are the very Techs that built and serviced our Coaches. This could be a good opportunity for you to start a Web Based/Service Business on the side. For those of us who repair and service our Coaches you would be a valuable asset.
Pete Sarno
Stuart, Fla
'02 Magna #6110
Yahoo Message Number: 54942 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54942)
Mike, I suspect we are all going to find that some items, when they fail, are going to be more than irritating to replace or repair.
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 54980 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/54980)
The last Country Coach on the road. Now that's a sad thought! I wonder if Mel Gibson will be driving it?
ddtuttle
aka Billy Byte (trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443