Yahoo Message Number: 4332 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4332)
Traveling between Roswell, NM and Santa Fe, NM last week I encounter 40 to 50 MPH crosswinds. The crosswind took my living room slide awning and almost fully extended it even with all the locks secured. My only option was to drive the 200 miles at 35 to 45 mph.
Any one else with simialr experience? It appears to me that my only option is to install travel locks on the slide awnings. I realize the downside (opening the slides with the travel locks in place and destroying the awning). I intend to engage the locks only when I encounter severe winds. Any better sugestions? GWallstrom 03 Allure 36ft Sunriver 30872
Yahoo Message Number: 4333 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4333)
I and many others have had that experience. What I did initially was to find somewhere to pull off the road and have my wife inch the slide out while I made sure the awning was unrolling and lining up properly. For a cure you have to increase the tension on the awning roller spring. I forget how many turns it takes, but your dealer should be able to handle it, and I recommend you let him do it---it can be dangerous. There has been some discussion in this group of installing an aluminum or stainless steel 90 degree strip under the awning to divert the wind. I've seen this on some Monaco coaches. I would strongly recommend against installing locks for the obvious reason. You may always remember to unlock them, but what about someone else at some point?
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 4334 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4334)
I've had the problem with my old Intrigue and my present Magna. I glued some thick aluminum shims on the arms just under the latches to keep the awning from moving out with the wind. I also increased the tension several turns. I read somewhere you need 24 turns to tension it properly but I would check with Zip Dee. I saw a device at Quartzite that installed a hose clamp around the roller to keep it from turning and it was tighteded and loosened with the hook used to pull the awning down. The hose clamp had an eye bolt installed for this purpose. The hose clamp was mounted on another clamp that was installed on the arm. It looked like it would work. The air deflector installed under the awning is also supposed to work but you have to drill holes in the side of your coack to install it.
I don't know why CC doesn't fix this problem. It is a bad design and causes a lot of grief. Newmar uses one awning for the top of the slide and another awning for the window. They don't use Zip Dee awnings either which are a pain in the ass. I'm starting to sound like an old sore head, huh? jerry in NM, '00 Magna.
Yahoo Message Number: 4336 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4336)
gwallstrom,
Zip-Dee advises 28 turns of preload. After mine unfurled in similiar conditions as yours I checked it & it only had 13 turns of preload. Once I set the preload properly I have not experienced a problem.
Hope this helps
Steve
Intrigue #10673
Yahoo Message Number: 4338 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4338)
I have had that happen to the same awning under the same conditions (a strong, quartering wind while traveling). ZipDee people told me how to rewind it (you must completely unwind it and rewind it as it will not work properly until you do). Be careful while doing it, if you let it slip, it can break your arm. I decided not to put a hook on it because I was afraid my wife or I would forget to unhook it. I have only had that problem one time in three years and we do spend a majority of our time in the west where you get hard gusts of wind more frequently. ZipDee people told me that it definitely would happen under the conditions I described and they did not have any safe suggestions to prevent it. This was a year and a half ago.
They may have thought of something since then, but I haven't heard about it.
I've only had the experience once in three years and 55,000 miles and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Gene 2000 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 4339 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4339)
I installed the stainless steel wind deflectors. I have not been in a real strong wind since putting them on so I can not say how well they will work. However they way the fit, I believe they will work very well. Also, they are polished and look much better than the painted ones on the Monacos. I purchased them from Standley Manufacturing in Junction City. They cost about $50.
John, 2000 Intrigue
the
Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 4362 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4362)
Gene,
They have not thought of anything since then, they are still singing the same old song....make sure it has 28 windings on the spring!! Well, that has been done twice on mine and it still becomes a parasail whenever I have stong winds!
This is one more example of the lack of care which Country Coach personnel show toward their many owners. Why don't they redesign it so it works properly? I think it is pure arrogance on their part...just one more example! I am pretty much fed up with their service techs...some of them do their best to try and help you but there are others who just sing the same old song each time you speak with them. If they are to survive in this business they will need to change their attitude and I think they will need to change many of their personnel too, I think the no-support attitude is just too ingrained in some of them for them to be able to change.
Here is my list of things still unresolved after three years of ownership:
1. Black smoke from the exhaust....been to several cummins service centers...two new turbos, a repaired fuel injection pump and now Radiator Specialist has provided a new CAC shipped to me at my expense and installed at my expense. Still, no recall on this from Country Coach....why not, if it was shoddy materials from the beginning?
2. Dust storm from cooling fan! Kevin at CC says he can sell me a baffle kit to fix this, another tech says NO to Baffles but that I should remove and send to them the fan controller for checkout/reprogramming....why don't they have the same script? Or is there no conductor at CC and these guys are just winging it? Sounds so to me!
3. PAC brake has been intermittent since the beginning, still so.
4. Zip Dee awning is a joke, unfurls in high winds. Always has, still so.
5. Step cover intermittant. closes when it feels up to it.
6. Electrical operated steps, intermittant.
7. Bedroom closet door always slides open during travel, they replaced the door while under warranty, new door still opens while underway.
8. Black streak in ceiling of bathroom, continues to get darker...service center has no idea where that is coming from.
9. Entry door had bubbles form under paint while under warranty, Lazy
Days body shop patched it up, last a few weeks, now there are about half a dozen bubbles formed under paint surface....obivious problem in this door....what will CC do to rectify this? Nothing to date...they will sell me a new skin to be shipped and installed at my expense.....great guy, that Kevin or is it his boss or his bosses boss? I don't know, I just know they aren't willing to fix an obivious manufacturing defect.
You can bet my next Motorhome will not be a country coach unless someone at CC steps up to the plate and fixes the many defects in this one.
Ray
2000 Intrigue (the Intrigue name is derived from the intriguing question....What will fail next?)
11040
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Yahoo Message Number: 4363 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4363)
Ray!! Ok all ready!
I sit here and read everyone's messages and try to remain silent, I am in sales and find this site very insightful with keeping me up on the concerns of our customers. Then I read messages like yours. I normally blow them off, but I don't know, maybe I'm getting crabby in my old age. Threatening to go to another brand of coach unless the factory takes care of the problems a three-year-old coach is having, WOW!
Now I'm telling you up front, I am in motorhome sales (have been for about 8 years), and yes it's true some of the Country Coach techs do have this "old world"? attitude toward their product and customers. Believe me, in sales we run across this obstacle all the time. Most likely this is a great reason why their sales are down today.
But please, blaming Country Coach for this list of complaints.
1. Black smoke from the exhaust. Your motor is a Cummins turbo diesel (what's this got to do with CC?)
2. Dust storm. Again Cummins
3. PAC brake. Maybe Cummins or try Allison (these transmissions today are programmable and tune well with PAC)
4. ZepDee Awnings, I know CC installs them, but they don't manufacture them.
5. Step cover. Yeah!! Finely, this is a Country Coach problem. (Even thou minor)
I don't want to keep picking on you about this list, but come on. When you consider all the amazing contraptions your coach has and the fact that it is going thru an earthquake every time you head down the road, can you go with me on this?
Guys, yes the parts and service dept is a pain to deal with. And yes, I do agree streamlining and efficiency is not their strong point, but in general, they do work hard and do for the most part a good job. Country Coach has been slammed the past couple of years hard, and sales have not done the best, maybe with Bob back things will change.
See, I sell their competition, now let's talk about problems.
I won't mention any names, I'm in enough trouble as it is, but how about having your tag wheels fall off while in transit, caused by poor and missed welding spots. This happened to one of my customers, I bet that woke him up. Or a slide-room not stopping when fully out and falling on the ground!! Windshields cracking in half when taking a right or left turn (latter finding out that the factory "forgot"? to weld at 9 different stress points. Chassis busting in half, because they can't handle the tress of a bigger motor. Blowouts that happened because of under-sized tires. Roofs splitting in half (you think that would cause a leak) I can go on and on. Now, these are problems.
I have been to shows with Country Coach for years, and yes I hear all the problems, but please, try the other brands (I have done shows for the other products and have had people walking up to me with novels for a complaint list) and then maybe you can see were I'm coming from. The biggest different is that those companies have figured out how important it is in taking care of your customer (most of those customers with these "major"? problems are still happy with their coach, amazing! Service got right on them, no questions asked, and took care of it. Country Coach still has a way to go.
Country Coach is not perfect by any means, and they would take a lot of pressure off themselves if they handled service issues better, but they are and have always been one of the best build motorhomes on the road.
Sorry, but I had to get this off my chest. You can hit me at the next rally I see you at. (Just once thou)
Robin
(I sell Country Coaches)
Yahoo Message Number: 4364 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4364)
Robin McCracken,
Overall I am a very happy CC owner who has good service from tech services in Oregon. I would buy another CC coach. I can appreciate your reply, but felt I needed to respond to a couple of items.
"2. Dust storm. Again Cummins"
I would disagree with you that this is a Cummins issue & Cummins agrees. CC mounts the fan & radiator. The "dust storm" issue has gone on way too long. For a quality coach, CC should have addressed this issue & solved it for the many owners who experience an irritating issue. If it is a part failure, it has occurred too much & CC needs to replace them! If it is a design issue CC should retrofit all coaches! The worst thing they can do is ignore it--and it appears this is their approach.
"4. ZipDee Awnings, I know CC installs them, but they don't manufacture them."
I agree with you that CC does not make the product. But when a problem becomes this common CC needs to put some pressure on ZipDee until they fix their product or sell coaches with a slide awning that functions. I believe that if ZipDee sprung loaded both arms on their slide covers, like they do their patio awnings, that the problem might be solved. CC must take responsibility as the coach IS their product & when THEY select to use ZipDee awnings then they also have to help their customers solve a very common problem.
I hope this is accepted in the spirit that it was written.
Steve
Intrigue #10673
Yahoo Message Number: 4365 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4365)
Robin,
I expect CC to (1) put close to the highest quality components into each and every coach they build. And I expect them to (2) quickly make changes when they get feedback of frequently occuring problems.
I expect that because I did not select a $75,000-$120,000 coach from say Fleetwood.
In general, I believe they do (1), but they are not always good at (2).
Henk Bots, 2000 Magna 13K miles (in service with a cracked cooling component, which as I understand is complete made by CC and I recall a number of members of this group have experienced).
Yahoo Message Number: 4367 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4367)
I am just the female partner in a Country Coach...but in many seminars at CC rallies, the black streaks have been attacked....it is caused from the engine compartment not being sealed tightly and road film and smoke sifts into the inner walls and comes out thru any crack in the ceiling small or large enough for dust to come thru...it is hard to clean off as it is oily...but you can seal the engine area walls and edges ...
CC has done it for us at two different rallies...they know about it...you just haven't ask the right question...Ours is doing fine since sealing...
The awning was a problem to us also at first...got it wound tighter and it has ceased.. yes, duct tape on the ends will hold it until you get where you can get it rewound!!!!!!!
Our coach is a '97 and is still doing well...friends in other makes have had hard times with just about everything..and we have always had good relations with the factory and or dealer in Dallas...The door thing was happening on our coach too...they (CC) sent us another panel to be installed at our expense...but it was four years old... our body man cleaned the panel and repainted it...and it is still doing fine...so we have not had the skin installed...just holding on to it..
We smoke too- but the engine checks out good...so just kick back on the pedal and not use so much fuel...never had the dust problem...guess us old folks just got a better toy...
Tomorrow we leave on a rally trip...and I hope all works well...we have over 60,000 miles and intend to keep it in good repair and keep on going..
Thanks for letting a lady sound off.
Mary and Huie Lindsey Intrique 10379 (3rd owner)
Yahoo Message Number: 4368 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4368)
I think the reason for the dust strom is the engine cover in the back of the coach I have tried with sucess when pulling into a dusty campground to undo the engine compartment cover and just leave it opened a the dust problem is not as bad.
CC does not loover the back engine cover as many other coaches do.
GB
Yahoo Message Number: 4369 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4369)
This subject reminds me of a conversations I had with a customer relations guy a few years ago. He told me that companies with a large service component have discovered that they were spending most of their time with irate customers who are never satisfied, never let them forget it and will never do business with them again. Meanwhile the other customers are patiently waiting for someone to help them and getting more and more upset with the waiting. Some companies have decided to give up on those people who are rude, irate and obnoxious and spend more time with the people who are more likely to give them repeat business. This is obviously a judgement call for service personnel and I'm sure it causes some people to be brushed off who should not. I don't know if CC follows this pollicy or not but since I was told this I have tried to be very polite and friendly when I talk to a service rep. I don't know whether it has done me any good or not but it doesn't seem to have done any harm. jerry in NM, '00 Magna.
Yahoo Message Number: 4370 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4370)
As an interested "lurker" who is shopping for a replacement coach this year. I have read all of your comments, suggestions and insights. Quality control is the most important issue to all of us. I have been pleased with my current manufacture, Winnebago, but comparable issues surface all the time. I would even opt to purchase their new Freedom, which priced at retail is comparable to the First Edition Allure, but Winnebago hasn't learned how to design a cock pit and my height challenged spouse, can't see over the dash :-(. Their interior design is also the worst in the industry.
At 2 recent RV shows, I spent an hour with factory reps from CC and Monaco, my 2 chosen finalists. At Ft Washington last week (Philadelphia) I raised all of the issues that many of you have discussed and asked about the perceived lack of QC. The rep who has been with CC for many years acknowledged that their priorities and focus at the factory had changed after Bob Lee left. However, since his return. Quality is now number one and the entire team from factory personnel through sales, service and support are dedicated to return to the CC of old.
What was really compelling was his honesty in responding to all of the criticisms I raised.
Monaco had been my first choice, but after reading discussions on IFS and Monaco's not using this configuration, I'm back to CC especially since QC hopefully is being addressed.
For those of you experiencing continuing issues, I suggest a well written letter to Bob Lee sharing your concerns and also reinforcing that CC's success has always been the result of their QC and customer driven support.
Happy Trails
Steve Bloom
00 Ultimate Advantage.
Yahoo Message Number: 4371 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4371)
Hi, Steve
You want height challenged? I'll give you height challenged.
My wife is 4' 9", and looks like Lilly Tomlin sitting in the co- pilot seat. (she has to use a foot stool, her feet do not reach the floor), and she can see out the front just fine.
The view out the side is another story, as when she turns to the right, she is looking at the wall between the door and window.
One thing that CC goofed on, though, is there is no map light for the right seat, the one up by the control panel is too high for her to reach from the seat. (she needs the footstool just to reach the water pump switch)
Bill Harris
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Yahoo Message Number: 4380 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4380)
Well said, Robin. My second CC gave me more problems than it should have, but after looking around, I bought another one. The only disagreement I have with what you said is the dust storm--that is a CC problem WHICH THEY CAN FIX.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 4382 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4382)
CC QC is the best I have heard of Monco owners taking 3 years to debug a new coach.
It only took about 6 months for me 2 get everything squared away with my coach.
GB
Yahoo Message Number: 4383 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4383)
I bought a new 1999 Holiday Rambler lemon (Monaco owns and made Holiday Ramblers in the same factory as Monaco) and drove it for 10 months before I decided I could not stand the reoccurring problems. Every few weeks I would begin looking for a dealership to fix the list (5 to 15 items each time) that had gone wrong. These were coach problems (not engine or awnings). I spent 2 1/2 days at the factory in Wakarusa, IN after spending many days at various dealers from Alaska to Florida. Customers at the factory were actually screaming "Let me talk to a Q. C. person. Show me one person in Q. C." The factory couldn't produce anyone in Q. C. Customers had spent as much as a week there letting the factory techs work on their diesel and gasoline Monacos and Holiday Ramblers. Some of them had been gone for a few days only to return with the same and additional problems. They sat in the waiting room and stood outside talking in groups about their problems and those of other Monaco owners.
Then I took a factory tour. I saw $100,000 and $300,000+ coaches being made with the same materials and same methods. The only differences were additional mirrors, bells, and whistles, fancier paint jobs, and larger motors. It certainly convinced me to trade before the warranty was out of date.
I purchased "The RV Rating Book" by J. D. Gallant and spent some time on the telephone with him before deciding on my next coach. "If you can go the price, Country Coach is my top rated coach." As a full timer and considering the terrible experience with a Monaco product, I couldn't afford not to spend the money. John Bickel, Kevin Kiscoan, and the others in the CC tech service area have been outstanding to work with to resolve problems with my coach. Although I am not a mechanic, I was able to fix many of them myself with their instructions and parts they sent overnight to me. Other significant problems have been solved by Cummins. I'm sure all of these moving homes have and will continue to have problems, but I think CC has fewer problems and less significant problems than the competition.
That's my two cents worth.
Gene, 2000 Allure, # 30496
Yahoo Message Number: 4386 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4386)
Robin,
With what you have said, I agree but, many of us have not had the problems you have had. Regardless, they should be fixed. Have you ever tried addressing the problems at a rally with Bob Lee or other factory people ?
good luck
Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998
Yahoo Message Number: 4387 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4387)
Folks:
I'd like to share our experiences with CC and their quality. My wife and I own a 36' two slide 2002 Intrigue (#11370) that we took posession of in May of 2001. We were lead to believe that CC was the best quality coach made and our dealer (Guaranty RV) went to great lengths to demonstrate this.
We have had this coach for 22 months and have put over 39,000 miles(a large number of those miles were attempting to obtain repaires) on it.
We purchased a country coach because of our intent to use it extensively and perhaps become fulltimers.
So far we have had it repaired (or attempted to) over eighteen times.
The refrigerator has been replaced, we have had three inverters, the generator has been repaired twice, the surge guard had to be replaced, the galley slide has been repaired seven times (none successfully), we have a mysterious coolant leak, there are cracks forming aroung the engine cover opening, we have had to have two paint blisters repaired, we have been towed to Cummins for engine repairs, the entry step extends while we travel down the road, the door opens when we are traveling down the road (we keep the deadbolt locked always!), the inside step cover fails to work 50% of the time, the ride height adjustment valve has failed and been worked on multiple times and now we have an air leak in the suspension system. And there are many more items that aren't on my mind at the current time.
All of the items listed above have been attempted to be repaired and except for the surge protector, the paint blisters and refer NONE of the repairs has been successful! Now these repairs weren't done at a no name repair shop, they were attempted by those fine folks at CC in Junction City, OR. We made two trips from Yuma, AZ to Junction City, OR for repairs; we made at least two trips from San Jose, CA to Junction City for repairs; we made one trip from Chicago to Junction City for repairs; and, we had to make an emergency trip from Boise, ID to Junction City for repairs. Other repairs have been performed by various dealers, Camping World and one independent here in San Jose.
We have been attampting to get Country Coach to resolve some of these issues since the coach was four months old. We were at a rally in Tucson where I spent two hours locked in a coach with Don Fults reviewing our issues and attempting to find a resolution. We were in Hutchinson, KS and were assured by Don Fults that we would have a resolution before we left Hutchinson. The reason you haven't seen Don lately must be that he is still in Hutchinson as we have not heard a word from him regarding a resolution.
Do I think Country Coach makes a quality product? NO. I am not angry at CC for the quality failures we have experienced (don't ask Nancy that question though!). As complex as these things are it is certainly possible to build a monstrous lemon. I am disappointed that Country Coach has promised to address the issues and hasn't. All we expected was for CC to own up to their problems and to fix them. They certainly welcome us to service but after repeatedly failing to repair an item I expect them to take radical steps. They don't.
Some people say that things will change now that Bob Lee is back.
Well, we have spoken to Bob a number of times and we are still stuck with a broken $300K coach and lots of frustration. Don't get me wrong, Bob Lee is a fine person and he knows quality is important. I just don't know if CC can survive the quality crisis caused by the number of sever problems a number of us with 2002 products have experienced.
We have finally given up on obtaining satisfactory repairs and have filed a lemon law complaint against Country Coach (we bought out coach in California) requesting that they replace our coach. We have our first mediation date at the end of March 2003. Their attorneys are posturing right now but CC will loose this one based on the volume of our evidence from their own records. We are still struggling to discover what coach we want to replace our lemon Intrigue with. There aren't any clear winners but Alpine looks good and maybe Foretravel.
We really hate to leave Country Coach as we have made many great friends among the CC owners.
We really like some things about CC (we were even attempting to help get the Rocky Mountain CC chapter started)but we are really disgusted with the lack of quality in so many places within the company. I recommend that anyone considering purchasing a CC product really grill the executives at Country Coach HQ as to what to expect from the product and from the company. Take lots of notes, you'll need them.
And, don't expect any support from your dealer, once they cash the check they are gone.
Sorry for the long note but this has been coming for a long tome now and I want to make certain folks know what they're up against. For anyone wanting more specifics about opur case, please contact us at: neil@... (neil@...)
Regards,
Neil Tucker
Intrigue 11370
Yahoo Message Number: 4432 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4432)
Neil,
I am amazed that CC hasn't simply swapped your coach out. I've been debating between CC and Foretravel, and have been leaning towards CC, but this message has me reconsidering this. It's clear to me from a couple of years of research that I need to plan on a few "growing pains" for whatever coach I get - there was a good message on this subject posted by Larry Hanson (msg #4393). However, presuming this message accurately describes your experiences, you have clearly had the misfortune of acquiring a lemon coach, and CC shouldn't have to be taken to court to recognize this.
The only experience I've ever had with a "lemon" was with a Dodge Caravan in the early 90's. After several attempts to fix the issues (including replacing all 4 tires, the transmission, and several other items), the Chrysler regional representative came down, drove the van with me for 30 minutes, and immediately said he understood why we were unhappy, and he wanted a happy customer, so I could choose any Chyrsler product and trade in the van for full retail. No lemon law invocation necessary. We then decided to go with a more expensive van, so actually wound up paying Chrysler a couple grand. Result: satisfied customer; no lemon law suit; MORE $$ for Chrysler; and we bought 2 more Chrysler products in the ensuing decade. Once they proved to me they would stand by their products I had no reservations about doing repeat business. And this for a ~30k car -- one should expect at least as much concern for a ~300k motorhome!!
Keep us posted on how CC treats you on this - some of us potential buyers would like to know.
Good luck,
Gary Case
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Yahoo Message Number: 4438 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4438)
Sorry to hear about your experiences. Your coach number isn't far from ours (11320), so your comments caught my eye. We had only one real CC problem, leaky slides, and CC has been great about working with us on them...they are now leakfree after 3 trips. A few other problems have happened, but they were Cummins, KVH, Fantastic Fan, etc. problems...all of which would have been in any other coach of this quality.
I know that in two years of fulltiming, we've heard about problems with any quality coach, including Prevosts. No coach is immune and if you think about it, most of the "stuff" in one coach will be in another. We bought the CC product for its floorplan, ride, and reputation for quality (my parents had one for 8 years that was trouble-free for the most part...and CC was always good to work with during that time to address any concerns they had) and so far have been very pleased.
Foretravel is definitely a quality coach with a lot of devotees, but I've heard from one owner that "their quality isn't what it used to be."...so go figure...
I'm sorry that you've had so many issues, though...hopefully you can be all fixed soon! (Try Carrier and Sons in JC, too, or Holland RV in San Diego...all really good CC repair places.) Jan McNeill
2001 Intrigue 11320
Yahoo Message Number: 4443 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4443)
Gary,
I wouldn't let one example turn you off to Country Coach. Although we bought ours used, we are thrilled with the quality. I hesitate to comment on problems such as Neil describes, unless I can verify for myself. Problems with slides is something all coach manufacturers have. Seals, in particular, have proved troublesome, but you won't find a factory rep or sales rep that is willing to admit that, since slides are about all you find these days in new coaches.
We have gone through both the Foretravel and Country Coach factories, and I have to give the nod to Country coach. One example in the difference was the doghouse for the engine. On a Foretravel, you lift up the bed, and there is the engine. On my CC, I lift up the bed, I see a carpeted area with an access panel that is held in place by seven bolts. No comparison in the insulation. Roof insulation is also superior in CCs. Foretravels have the advantage that the owners name (Fore) is on every coach, and my impression is they take that very seriously! Both are good motorhomes, and I'm sure you would be happy with whatever you choose. Good luck!...........Per
Yahoo Message Number: 4473 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4473)
Country Coach Owners,
I would like to add my 2 cents about quality. For 35 years I worked for a Major Oil Company designing and building (hiring contractors) gas stations. I spent $20,000,000 a year on about 25 new gas station each year, and I was considered the best engineer the company had. Each year I won major prizes and bonuses for doing the best job. And each year there was always one station I was ashamed of and some poor dealer had to live with that job for 20 years. The same thing happens in motorhome construction, you can spend any amount of money you want and still get a bad job. All companies have the same problem. These things are built by humans who make mistakes and have bad days. No one on this site can tell me that everything they did on their job turned out perfect. As long as these things are not built by robots there will be bad coaches. Of course this does not help the poor person who got the bad unit but you just have to work thru it with the company. There were new gas stations that I spent $200,000 to $300,000 on to correct poor design and construction problems. You just keep trying to get it corrected and move ahead. Well, that's my 2 cents, everyone will not agree but I still love my Country coach.
Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998
Yahoo Message Number: 4477 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4477)
Well said, Bill!
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 4494 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4494)
I sent a personal response to Per offering to provide our documents for his perusal so I will be very brief here. The problems we are having with our coach are not unique. Many people have contacted me with similar issues to ours. All have the same complaints: too many failures and CC doesn't fix them after multiple visits. Our documents have been files with both CC and our attorney. The documentation is from Country Coach's own repair records (yes, you should keep the copy that you get at the end of your week long visits to the factory!)
These aren't isolated problems folks, there are over a dozen of us that I have spoken to with these long lists of unresolved complaints with 2001 and 2002 coaches.
Regards,
Neil (11370)
we bought ours used, we are thrilled with the quality. I hesitate to comment on problems such as Neil describes, unless I can verify for myself. ...........Per
Yahoo Message Number: 4575 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4575)
Neil,
Your experience pretty much states what I have experienced with CC and the dealer. One thing which my service advisor at Lazy Days told me was that not to be optimistic about CC taking care of any problems once the year of warranty was up. He told me that CC was the worst of their manufacturers in that respect...he also told me that he had much more luck in getting help with customer complaints from Fleetwood than he did with CC. All this surprised me as I bought CC because of the "quality" reputation they had. It appears that this reputation only existed because most owners would not publicly state the problems they were having. I suppose it is the ego not wanting to admit that they had made a mistake and wanted to keep it quite so others would not know of their foolish mistake. That is only a guess, but I now know from speaking to many CC owners as I travel that they do make many lemons and that I just happen to be unlucky enough to get one with enough unfixed problems after many hours spent in service centers trying to get the things fixed. Yes, I admit it, I made a $250,000 mistake, I bought one of the "very few" CC which I consider to be a lemon. I am stuck with it but I don't have to smile and say CC is great anymore and I won't. I will tell anyone who is interested when I am traveling that CC once made a great mh but in the case of the one they see in front of them CC made a less than satisfactory mh. If CC had fixed the many problems I have with mine, I would probably have kept quite too as many other "satisfied" owners do. I still don't think that is the way to get CC to come around and stop turning out units that require the owner to spend the next several months traveling to service centers doing QC work which someone at the factory is already being paid to do. Is it asking to much to expect that a factory turning our a unit of this price should have decent QC people. Not in my book, maybe for some it is.
When are those foreign manufacturers going to see this golden opportunity to move in and take this market from those who turn out a product requiring so much repair off the line?
My Honda still runs great after three years with no repairs to date!
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Yahoo Message Number: 4581 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4581)
Robin,
Yes, I am sure it is quite enough for you because your main concern is selling not satisfying the customer after the sale. Ok, now you say after three years I should not be complaining but you failed to read the part which said that all these problems were there during the 1st days of my ownership of the coach. The problem is that they were never repaired during the 1st year even though I did my part and took the coach to repair facilities numerous times..so you think that CC should hang an engine on a coach and then should not help the customer get that component repaired when their supplier doesn't step up and repair it....you are living in a dream world...do you think that Boeing would have that same attitude with a component supplied to them for an aircraft built by Boeing. If they did, that attitude would quickly be changed by lawyers for their customers. BTW they don't have that attitude...that attitude only seems to be relevant to the RV industry where coach manufacturers attempt to wash their hands of a flawed component by then saying they only strap it onto the mh.
I can understandy why you are in sales...you want to earn money selling something but you don't seem to understand that you are also responsible for helping the customer you sold something to. I think that many salesman have your attitude...sell and forget it. Not only in the mh industry but in many industries that is the salesman's attitude. That's a sorry attitude if you want to have repeat sales to that same customer. It is in your best interest to follow up the sale with a relationship where that customer sends his friends to you and also returns to you in the future. Can't you understand that?
My complaints are all a result of warranty items not being fixed during the warranty period, not problems which cropped up after the warranty was up. However, I can see now why they just kept putting off making good repairs to the problems I identified. They obiviously never intended to live up to their promises to fix problems, only the easy problems were fixed, those requiring CC to actually spend their own money to fix were not fixed. Yes, blame Cummins or whoever else could be blamed but don't blame CC who, after all, chose to put the selected components in the units they build.
With your attitude toward customers problems with a product, I am surprised that you have lasted in the sales business. Satisfying customers is the biggest goal a salesman should have. I am easy to satisfy, I just want what I buy to do what it was advertised to do and not just what the salesman told me but what the printed material advertised it to do.
Don't try to gloss over customer complaints, fix them!
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Yahoo Message Number: 4582 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4582)
Walt,
If any CC rep is monitoring these messages then I hope they read what you wrote. The problem I have run into is that each tech you speak with at the service number has a different recommended fix. Kevin tells me he will sell me baffles to fix the problem, another fellow there tells me he will re-program the controller if I send it to him.
So, I would like to know the OFFICIAL CC fix and then go with that.
Ray
Yahoo Message Number: 4588 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4588)
Ray,
For what it's worth. Damon has helped me (I never bought anything from him.... never even met him -yet) with third party components as well as many others in this group.
Just had to say it.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 4592 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4592)
I know it is insane to give unsolicted advice to an unhappy owner (I was there myself and have the T-shirt and the tattoo !!!), BUT, I was finally able to get rid of a whole bunch of nagging (and irritating) problems last year by taking my rig to Carrier and Sons in Eugene and giving them a list and leaving it there for a couple of days. It ended up costing me $1000.
The owner is an ex CC employee and is quite passionate (????) about CC rigs and has an encyclopedic knowledge of them. He especially seems to be "beyond" expert on Intrigues.
NOW FOR THE ADVICE:
What "I" would do is to take it to Carrier and give them a run down on all of the problems, then leave it there until it is fixed. THEN, I would take the bill to Bob Lee and request reimbursement.
I took my rig to outside shops to get cooling, ride height, and handling problemns corrected and CC was good about reimbursing me.
There were some things that they balked on, and I paid for myself (had to get a service call when fuel tank ran empty becasue the gauge was in error --- it had gel in the bottom of the tank and CC said they did not put any additives in), but I am satified that they have been fair.
There were many things that the factory did do under warranty and they were very helpful and more than fair on what they charged me.
BUT, they have limitations. I now feel comfortable that the combination of Carrier and a local Cummins shop, that has been good to me, will keep us enjoying many miles of "happy motoring" :-)
Chuck Gauthier
200 Intrigue 11142
La Quinta, CA
PLEASE DON'T BE UPSET AT ME FOR TRYING TO HELP BY GIVING ADVICE!!! I REALIZE THAT YOUR LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION IS EVEN BEYOND WHAT I EXPERIENCED AND I WANTED TO BEAT IT INTO LITTLE PIECES WITH A SLEDGE HAMMER!!!