Yahoo Message Number: 61598 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61598)
I had the PTO wet kit installed this winter. Now, I am experiencing a transmission fluid leak at the point where the PTO interfaces with the Hydraulic pump. I have lost approximately 2 quarts of transmission fluid since 4/30/2010 during which time I have driven the coach 3,000 miles. I am currently in Pueblo, CO. I'm not mechanically inclined. What is my solution and to what type of shop should I try and go to get the work done. There is a Stewart & Stevenson shop in Pueblo. Can they do this? Other suggestions in this general geographic area would also be appreciated.
Brian Davis
2005 42' Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901
Yahoo Message Number: 61600 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61600)
Had the same problem. Added a second Spicer PTO gasket to the first one and leak stopped. I have a feeling the splines are bottoming out, keeping the bolts from pulling as tight as they should to put enough pressure on a single gasket to stop leakage. Be sure and have the thick, stock gasket used. Long story on this, but my experience leads me to believe this may be the base of your problem, and perhaps what has lead to so much spine wear. If the splines are not perfectly tight and in alignment, they will wallow and wear faster. Gaskets are, most likely, special order items, not in stock in most places. It is a simple two bolt install. May want to start with two new gaskets. The old one maybe damaged if it has many miles on it.
Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418
Yahoo Message Number: 61602 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61602)
Brian:
I installed my own wet kit and it had a minor leak until all the bolts were torqued correctly. You should have an owners manual for the Chelsea PTO in your literature with all the torque values, if not one can be downloaded from the Chelsea website. Any repair shop worth its salt with a torque wrench can tighten up everything and stop the leak.
If the problem as a poor installation involving something like a missing gasket it still isn't rocket science. The PTO is probably one of the simplest systems on your coach. An Allison transmission shop should be able to diagnose and fix the problem with little problem. If gaskets are needed Chelsea has them.
This sounds like one of those adventures inherent to owning an RV. Relax, grin and bear it.
Do you belong to Coach Net or any of the roadside assistance clubs/organizations? If so give them a call for a referral to a qualified shop. If you don't belong I think you should consider joining. Coach Net even got my dummy locked-the-keys-in-the-car situation covered - their program covers everything you drive not just the RV. I have used them twice for service problem referrals while on the road. Each one was a fair, fast experience. You could even call them, join on the spot and get your referral. 877-797-7160 I get nothing for referring you, just passing on something we have found extremely useful.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 61616 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61616)
Bob,
Can you provide a link to the Chelsea PTO literature on their website? I don't have any literature among those provided to me by CC at delivery.
Brian
'05 Intrigue
Coach #11901
Yahoo Message Number: 61619 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61619)
Brian:
It is a small booklet. I am going to send you what documentation I have but from my other e-mail account as putting attachments to messages in Yahoo is a pain.
Wait one please.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 61700 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61700)
I've just finished reviewing PTO 101 and PTO 101a for the umpteenth time, and can't find the information I need. Does anyone know the part number of the gasket(s) that fit between the PTO and the hydraulic pump? I saw the part number for the gasket between the PTO and the Allison Transmission, but not for the one between the PTO and the hydraulic pump. Does anyone know that part number?
Thanks,
Brian Davis
'05 42' Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901
Yahoo Message Number: 61702 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61702)
Chelsea PN 35-P-95
This is the chelsae part number should be able to get from any hyd shop.
Yahoo Message Number: 61719 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/61719)
JD,
Thanks for the quick answer.
Is this correct or is the number 35-P-92?
Brian
Yahoo Message Number: 92075 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92075)
Could anyone who has done their own conversion offer encouragement or advise against attempting the job for one with a reasonable degree of mechanical skills? Are there any special tools required? Thanks.
2007 Inspire
Yahoo Message Number: 92076 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92076)
Jimmien,
You can do the job yourself. It is a little like changing a starter motor.
It will help if you have a ratcheting strap or two to secure the pumps to the side of the transmission once they are loosened from the PTO.
It also helps to have a swivel ratchet where the head of the ratchet can be rotated side to side on the handle - Harbor Freight has them. This helps get to the bolts on the top and back side of the PTO to Pump bolts.
A set of curved closed end wrenches also helps to get to these bolts but the ratchet is a lot easier and faster.
One of the forum members made a set of pictures of the job two or three years ago and these can help give you an idea of what you need to do.
Bob Cole
2005 Inspire 51394
Yahoo Message Number: 92079 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92079)
I looked under my coach several times to get my nerve up. After having read the warnings on this site I was concerned for my safety as well as the potential of more damage being done if I drove to a repair facility. I finally decided to jump in and in the end found the job to be easier than replacing a clutch in a 4x4 pickup.
It's really not that bad.
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:58 PM, Bob Cole wrote:
Jimmien,
You can do the job yourself. It is a little like changing a starter motor.
It will help if you have a ratcheting strap or two to secure the pumps to the side of the transmission once they are loosened from the PTO.
It also helps to have a swivel ratchet where the head of the ratchet can be rotated side to side on the handle - Harbor Freight has them. This helps get to the bolts on the top and back side of the PTO to Pump bolts.
A set of curved closed end wrenches also helps to get to these bolts but the ratchet is a lot easier and faster.
One of the forum members made a set of pictures of the job two or three years ago and these can help give you an idea of what you need to do.
Bob Cole
2005 Inspire 51394
Yahoo Message Number: 92090 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92090)
I installed the PTO wet kit about two years ago. This is not a terribly difficult job. Basis mechanical skills are needed. I would rate it as a one man all day job. The tips already given are good. Don't forget to checking the condition of the male spline coming out of the pump.
Good Luck, RJ 2005 Inspire #51264
Yahoo Message Number: 92328 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92328)
HOW CAN YOU TELL IF YOU HAVE A WET OR DRY PTO 2008 INSPRITE 360 425 CUM
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:49 PM, Dave Combs wrote:
I looked under my coach several times to get my nerve up. After having read the warnings on this site I was concerned for my safety as well as the potential of more damage being done if I drove to a repair facility. I finally decided to jump in and in the end found the job to be easier than replacing a clutch in a 4x4 pickup.
It's really not that bad.
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:58 PM, Bob Cole wrote:
Jimmien,
You can do the job yourself. It is a little like changing a starter motor.
It will help if you have a ratcheting strap or two to secure the pumps to the side of the transmission once they are loosened from the PTO.
It also helps to have a swivel ratchet where the head of the ratchet can be rotated side to side on the handle - Harbor Freight has them. This helps get to the bolts on the top and back side of the PTO to Pump bolts.
A set of curved closed end wrenches also helps to get to these bolts but the ratchet is a lot easier and faster.
One of the forum members made a set of pictures of the job two or three years ago and these can help give you an idea of what you need to do.
Bob Cole
2005 Inspire 51394
Yahoo Message Number: 92329 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92329)
Look for document "PTO-101a.pdf" in the files section of this website. It contains information about looking for the PTO and determining if it is WET or DRY. It contains great info, pictures, and a link to pictures of a torn-down PTO.
Herb
CCO Moderator
Yahoo Message Number: 92350 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92350)
After receiving encouragement from other owners, I ordered the kit and plunged in. I found it a bit more difficult than some of the descriptions, but since retirees have lots of time, I plodded instead of hurrying through the process. I am sooo glad I didn't wait as mine was very worn. The coach has 33000 mi. If you haven't verified your PTO is wet I recommend you do ASAP' A failure could really ruin your day.
Jim 07 Inspire
Yahoo Message Number: 92359 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92359)
I inspected my dry PTO at 32k. Link to slide show is here: http://muniac.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumID=18975398&AlbumKey=kh2TZb (http://muniac.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumID=18975398&AlbumKey=kh2TZb) I cleaned and repacked the spline with synthetic grease. Luckily all looked fine. I'll probably do another inspection this Spring. Pictures will be taken, of course. I think this is yet another maintenance item that needs attention constantly. I have no plans at this time to install a lubrication system.
I'm curious if anyone (besides me) has concerns about circulating unfiltered transmission fluid back through the transmission that might contain metal filings?? If the kit has a filter than this is a moot point. Safe travels to one and all.
Best - Scott
2006 Allure 430 40' #31349
(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html (http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html)
Yahoo Message Number: 92361 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92361)
Scott,
I believe the fan/power steering hydraulic system is isolated from the transmission. The 2 fluids do not come in contact with one another. Therefore, there is no chance that the PTO fluid could contaminate the transmission fluid.
I'm pretty sure this is the case on my coach at least.
Fred Compton
2005 Magna #6454
Yahoo Message Number: 92365 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92365)
Scott,
I have no concerns about non-filtered oil in the transmission. Actually all the trans fluid is unfiltered until the trans oil pump picks it up and runs it through the two (Allison) filters before pumping it back into the transmission working parts. The metal filings from the PTO would be very small compared to what is coming for the transmission itself. Not only metal filings but large pieces of clutch material also. The majority of the PTO is oil lubricated already. Only the splines between the PTO and hydraulic oil pumps is not lubed originally. Wouldn't expect to see any wear when the splines have constant lubrication.
I replaced my PTO with the wet kit myself and no longer have any worries in that area.
Barney
07 Inspire 52059
Yahoo Message Number: 92368 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92368)
Well, the transmission has its own internal filters that trap contaminants from any location in the transmission. Allison did provide the PTO port, so I would think that they have engineered the transmission with the assumption that a PTO may be fitted.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 92369 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92369)
My 2007 CC Tribute 260, 40', single axel coach is in perfect condition with 35K miles. Everything has been serviced by Kenworth. We are leaving in 10 days for a 4 month trip...KY->Dallas-> Venice, Fl ->KY. I do not know if my CC has a dry or wet PTO? CC tech told me what to look for under the coach but nothing under my coach looks like what he described. Does anyone know about the Tribute? I have a C-9 400 HP CAT & Allison Trans. Do I need to try to have it checked/fixed to Wet if necessary? Do I have time??
Yahoo Message Number: 92370 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92370)
You have a dry pto. I have the 2008 Tribute 260, and mine also is dry. That said, I don't know all of the details, but it is my understanding that the pto that we have is a different and more heavy duty model than previous years. I have, at the advice of the manufacture, pulled and lubed my with the provided grease, and it is still going well, but I only have 25,000 miles on it.
Jim Hill
2008 Tribute 260
81138
Yahoo Message Number: 92371 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92371)
Thanks Jim...
D Jean
CC 81072
Yahoo Message Number: 92373 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92373)
Scott,
Whilst I am not aware of the route of the oil flow, I take what seems to be the same stance as yourself. I had my PTO pulled at the first engine service in my ownership, spring 2012, 20,000 miles. The splines were reported fine, same again this last spring. On each occasion the engineer is instructed to remove, inspect, clean out the grease and repack. It only adds an hour to my account and gives me peace of mind. I think that whilst this regime does have a cost I would under the circumstances be just as fragile about the wet solution if I had one. This next spring we will be at 32000 miles so it will be interesting to see the state of the splines, I may make the effort to be there for that part.
Michael 2008 Allure 31683
Yahoo Message Number: 92377 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92377)
Jim
When I researched this several years back the issue was not heavy or light duty but application. The manufacturer techs said that the dry style was not designed for continuous duty. I have never heard that there has been any upgrade of change to the part. I was also told that the PTO is adequate for continuous duty if it is regularly lubricated. Just like AGM batteries, I like to eliminate maintenance to the extent feasible.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9
Yahoo Message Number: 92378 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92378)
Dan:
Installing a Wet Kit to a dry spline PTO allows for continuous lubricating without actually having to do it yourself.
Kevin Waite
541-953-6162
Yahoo Message Number: 92384 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92384)
Hello,
I have a 1999 Allure w/ 330 Cummins...how do I determine what type pto I have ?
Thanks
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 92385 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92385)
As I stated, mine had severe wear. I don't know how long it would have continued to work, but am glad I caught it before it stripped. The newly wet area does circulate fluid back into the transmission so I was very meticulous in cleaning the pump input shaft and the cavity before reassembly. I plan to have the tranny filters changed after a few hundred miles in case any contamination was introduced. I have the same engine and transmission that you have David. Mine is an inspire 07 with 33000 mi. I strongly suggest you know before you go. Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 92386 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92386)
From what I have learned from my research, almost all coaches before 2010 have dry PTOs....I was told just to have the Dry PTO serviced every 18 months and them forget it....
D Jean
CC 81720
Yahoo Message Number: 92387 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92387)
I fully understand what you are saying, and agree. That said, when I took my installed PTO p/n to the Chelsea rep., in Seattle, he told me not to worry as mine was a heavy (er) duty model. He gave me a packet of grease and said that after 8,000 miles, to apply the grease to the splines, and thereafter, to repeat and not worry. I always take what someone says with a grain of salt, until they earn my confidence, so I read all of these emails about the issue and try to gain both respect for the issue, as well as knowledge.
Jim
2008 Tribute 260
81138
Yahoo Message Number: 92397 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92397)
Or no transmission PTO at all. I think that all coaches built before 2004 have the engine driven hydraulic pump. Thus, no PTO issues at all. The change to transmission driven PTOs occurred sometime in 2004.
George in Birmingham '03 Magna 6298
Yahoo Message Number: 92404 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92404)
I think George is correct. Our 98 is engine driven pump.
Nathan
1998 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 92424 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92424)
Turns out my 2007 CC Tribute 260 has a rear radiator and, therefore, DOES NOT have a PTO. Worried for nothing.
D Jean
CC 81072
Yahoo Message Number: 92429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/92429)
If you have a question as to your coach needing a PTO wet kit, contact John Davis and he will explain how to tell if your specific coach needs one. I bought my wet kit from him (probably the best price anywhere) and he gave me excellent directions for installing it. Most good auto mechanics can do it with his written instructions. His knowledge and instructions make him the very best source for purchasing the kit (if you need it) and information.
(jdrv1@... (jdrv1@...))
Gene Merryman
2006 Intrigue Ovation II
CC #12005