Yahoo Message Number: 64373 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64373)
Has anyone converter to Final Charge using "Final Charge Converter" without flushing their old coolant out of the engine, I just came across this on Final Charge web site. Appears they are telling me that I don't need to do a flush, just add the Final Charge Converter product and that is supposed to convert me to OAT technology coolant. What am I missing here, this seems too simple.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
http://www.finalcharge.com/converter.html (http://www.finalcharge.com/converter.html)
FINAL CHARGE Converter
The FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program is the simple and cost effective way to convert a properly maintained cooling system currently using a conventional or fully formulated coolant to FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented formula. The FINAL CHARGE Fleet Conversion program:
Eliminates the need to perform complete cooling system flush and fill
Reduces vehicle and driver downtime
Significantly reduces the quantity and cost of new coolant required at conversion.
At the center of the FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program is FINAL CHARGE Converter. FINAL CHARGE Converter is formulated with a special blend of FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented technology with Contamination Tolerant Additives (CTAs). FINAL CHARGE Converter is specifically formulated to convert conventional and fully formulated coolants to FINAL CHARGE coolant technology.
By converting to FINAL CHARGE coolant, you should realize an additional 600,000 miles of on-road use (6 years or 12,000 service hours of off-road use), with the addition of FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 service hours of off-highway use), in a properly maintained cooling system.
For vehicles that are currently using a conventional or fully formulated coolant:
Prior to conversion, the coolant freeze point should be tested. The cooling system should be maintained between -23?f and -65?f, or a 45% to 60% coolant and 55% to 40% water mix. If the coolant freeze point is not within this range, it should be corrected at the time of conversion.
Based on cooling system size, add the required amount fo FINAL CHARGE Coolant to correct the freeze point and FINAL CHARGE converter to the cooling system. (Contact a sales representative for details)
Remove the chemically charged filter, if applicable, and replace with a blank filter. FINAL CHARGE coolant eliminates the need for SCAs.
Maintaining The Cooling System After Converting To FINAL CHARGE Coolant
To maintain the protection of FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented technology after converting, the proper level of the proprietary inhibitor system should be present in the cooling system. The inhibitor system used in FINAL CHARGE coolant is formulated with Contamination Tolerant Additives (CTAs) and will not be adversely affected by the occasional addition of a non-organic acid coolant. However, it is recommended that contamination levels be kept below 25%. This can be accomplished by adhering to the following maintenance practices.
Use only FINAL CHARGE coolant or Final Charge 50/50 Pre-Diluted coolant when topping-off the cooling system.
If FINAL CHARGE coolant is not available, top-off the cooling system with water.
Maintain between a 45% to 60% coolant and a 55% to 40% water mix.
Do not add Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs) to the cooling system or use chemically charged filters.
After conversion, add FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 hours of off-highway use).
Yahoo Message Number: 64374 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64374)
Has anyone converter to Final Charge using "Final Charge Converter" without flushing their old coolant out of the engine, I just came across this on Final Charge web site. Appears they are telling me that I don't need to do a flush, just add the Final Charge Converter product and that is supposed to convert me to OAT technology coolant. What am I missing here, this seems too simple.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
http://www.finalcharge.com/converter.html (http://www.finalcharge.com/converter.html)
FINAL CHARGE Converter
The FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program is the simple and cost effective way to convert a properly maintained cooling system currently using a conventional or fully formulated coolant to FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented formula. The FINAL CHARGE Fleet Conversion program:
Eliminates the need to perform complete cooling system flush and fill
Reduces vehicle and driver downtime
Significantly reduces the quantity and cost of new coolant required at conversion.
At the center of the FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program is FINAL CHARGE Converter. FINAL CHARGE Converter is formulated with a special blend of FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented technology with Contamination Tolerant Additives (CTAs). FINAL CHARGE Converter is specifically formulated to convert conventional and fully formulated coolants to FINAL CHARGE coolant technology.
By converting to FINAL CHARGE coolant, you should realize an additional 600,000 miles of on-road use (6 years or 12,000 service hours of off-road use), with the addition of FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 service hours of off-highway use), in a properly maintained cooling system.
For vehicles that are currently using a conventional or fully formulated coolant:
Prior to conversion, the coolant freeze point should be tested. The cooling system should be maintained between -23?f and -65?f, or a 45% to 60% coolant and 55% to 40% water mix. If the coolant freeze point is not within this range, it should be corrected at the time of conversion.
Based on cooling system size, add the required amount fo FINAL CHARGE Coolant to correct the freeze point and FINAL CHARGE converter to the cooling system. (Contact a sales representative for details)
Remove the chemically charged filter, if applicable, and replace with a blank filter. FINAL CHARGE coolant eliminates the need for SCAs.
Maintaining The Cooling System After Converting To FINAL CHARGE Coolant
To maintain the protection of FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented technology after converting, the proper level of the proprietary inhibitor system should be present in the cooling system. The inhibitor system used in FINAL CHARGE coolant is formulated with Contamination Tolerant Additives (CTAs) and will not be adversely affected by the occasional addition of a non-organic acid coolant. However, it is recommended that contamination levels be kept below 25%. This can be accomplished by adhering to the following maintenance practices.
Use only FINAL CHARGE coolant or Final Charge 50/50 Pre-Diluted coolant when topping-off the cooling system.
If FINAL CHARGE coolant is not available, top-off the cooling system with water.
Maintain between a 45% to 60% coolant and a 55% to 40% water mix.
Do not add Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs) to the cooling system or use chemically charged filters.
After conversion, add FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 hours of off-highway use).
Yahoo Message Number: 64376 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64376)
Could it be that "Eliminates the need to perform complete cooling system flush and fill" means that once you drain, flush and refill with Final Charge, that you will not need to do periodic flush and refill ever again.
Herb
Forum Moderator
Yahoo Message Number: 64377 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64377)
From the Final Charge web site
The FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program is the simple and cost effective way to convert a properly maintained cooling system currently using a conventional or fully formulated coolant to FINAL CHARGE coolant's patented formula. The FINAL CHARGE Fleet Conversion program:
- Eliminates the need to perform complete cooling system flush and fill
- Reduces vehicle and driver downtime
- Significantly reduces the quantity and cost of new coolant required at conversion.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 64381 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64381)
Read the conditions established by Final Charge very carefully. Your current coolant must be clean and have the proper mix for adequate freeze protection. If that is AOK you are simply adding the chemicals that provide the other features of today's coolants. Doesn't sound impossible to me although these are dramatic claims versus the way coolants have lasted the previous 70 years of my life. These new products are awesome in comparison.
As even I once prevailed with a very large car parts supplier over an engine failure if it doesn't perform as they claim they are liable for damages.
Of course, if you don't flush and clean the system proving it met the conditions for the "upgrade" would fall entierly on you. Me? Unless I knew my system was squeaky clean and fully protected already I would flush, clean and add new coolant.
Compared to the potential problems it isn't that expensive, particularly if you can do it yourself and avoid the high labor costs.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 64382 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64382)
Working at Cat we used test strips and other lab tests for coolant on our rental fleet! If tests came out good just topped off coolant. If Bad we followed instructions on a Remedy from lab report. Retest again after remedy and report came out good then put back in fleet. Ken 99 Allure 30356 Reading your Flush Issue, We always flushed complete system with all heaters and starting Aids. Again always re-tested and sent final sample to Lab. for Approvel.
Yahoo Message Number: 64383 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64383)
Herb,
The Final Charge Converter product is only used if you don't drain and flush the system, if you drain and flush then you use only the Final Charge coolant and not the Converter product according to their web site. I called Old World and the tech told me that as long as my existing coolant is clean with no evidence of contamination and the freeze protection level is as it should be then the FInal Charge Converter product would be the acceptable method to change over to the OAT coolant. I am still considering which way to go.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
Yahoo Message Number: 64384 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64384)
When I read the original post on this thread I got the impression that FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant was a bottle of chemicals you simply added to your present coolant and that was it on coolant maintenance . . . forever. Sounded too good to be true.
My reading of the literature suggests this is not quite correct.
My assessment of the FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant literature is that the product is comparable to CAT ELC and similar products.
As I see it, you would continue using your current coolant until it was time to change that product out. Then you'd do a COMPLETE cooling system flush. Then you'd add the required XX gallons of FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant or CAT ELC, whatever extended life coolant you chose to refill your cooling system. The recommended life for these products is at least 6 years, BUT you need to add an EXTENDER after 3 years.
Am I wrong?
Lee Zaborowski
Yahoo Message Number: 64385 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64385)
I guess I stand corrected by Ray. I found a FAQ site for the product and Answer #17 is -
With the FINAL CHARGE Global Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program, you can convert a truck using conventional or fully formulated coolants to FINAL CHARGE Coolant without having to drain, flush and refill the cooling system. At the center of this program is FINAL CHARGE Converter. FINAL CHARGE Converter is formulated with a special blend of FINAL CHARGE Coolant's patented Organic Acid Technology (OAT) inhibitors with Contamination Tolerant Additives. A one-time dose of FINAL CHARGE Converter is specifically formulated to convert properly maintained cooling systems using conventional or fully formulated coolants meeting ASTM D-4985, ASTM D-6210 or TMC RP-329 to FINAL CHARGE Coolant's patented formula. By converting to FINAL CHARGE, you should realize an additional 600,000 miles of on-road use (6 years or 12,000 hours of off-highway use) without the use of Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs), with the addition of FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 hours of off-road use), in a properly maintained cooling system. The amount of FINAL CHARGE Converter to add is based on the cooling system capacity.
Bottom line then is the issue of whether your system is a "properly maintained cooling system using conventional or fully formulated coolants meeting ASTM D-4985, ASTM D-6210 or TMC RP-329 to FINAL CHARGE Coolant's patented formula."
Also note that the recommended lifetime is 6 years.
In my case, since my coolant was over 4 years old, had not been monitored annually (more than one owner of the coach) and the pH was not ideal, I chose the conservative route and did the full flush and put CAT ELC in my C-13.
Lee
Yahoo Message Number: 64388 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64388)
Ray,
I was really sold on using Final Charge a couple years ago and was all set to use the "Converter". At that time I was unable to locate a retail source for the product. I tried several of the places suggested by Final Charge (Old World) tech support without success.
If anyone knows of a place to actually buy the "Converter" product I'd really be interested in knowing where.
I lost interest in Final Charge when Wal-Mart stopped carrying Final Charge and, at about the same time, Cummins relaxed the routine coolant maintenance requirements for (at least) ISC engines (i.e., test coolant annually or whenever coolant is added to the system; replace ONLY IF replacement limits have been exceeded). Speedco routinely tests/maintains coolant limits (annually for me) and I check using test strips in between.
--
Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Yahoo Message Number: 64509 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64509)
Tom, I too was discouraged when WalMart stopped carrying Final Charge; however, I found it at the Flying J where I get all my local fuel. Just as easy, pennies more.
Mike Cebula
'95 Magna 5266
Yahoo Message Number: 64516 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64516)
If I understand the subject matter the intent is to make the coolant last longer to reduce running cost. If that is so the price of having the coolant go sour could be thousands of dollars to replace the sleeves around the pistons as they are rotted from the inside. If properly exchanged every 2 or 3 years and PH balanced the problem goes away. Save some pennies and spend some big dollars or maintain the PH and change it every 3 years at a fraction of the worry and cost of new sleeves.
Dale Ford, 04 Intrigue 11713
Yahoo Message Number: 64548 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/64548)
The main advantage is that you can forget testing the coolant for correct DCA as you are now using OAT technology which doesn't need to have an external additive, the longer life of the coolant is an added bonus.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040