Yahoo Message Number: 66283 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66283)
Between destinations I boondocked overnight house batteries went from green to red on telltale panel within hours, next morning checked both sets of batteries while engine was warming up-found chassis bat. charging, house bat. not charging. Don't have wiring dia. Any help appreciated.
Bill 04 Inspire 51166
Yahoo Message Number: 66285 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66285)
Bill, The symptom suggests the battery boost solenoid, located above the chassis battery on the front wall of the compartment. On the attached diagram, it is in the upper left corner.
The solenoid closes with a signal from either the chassis boost switch (on the driver's side console) or the oil pressure switch (on the engine).
With the engine off, press the chassis boost switch and listen for the solenoid (if you're like me, that means have your wife listen!). Mash it a few times - the solenoid might have been stuck. If there's no "click" the problem is with the solenoid (or the connections - check and clean).
If the solenoid clicked, start the engine and see if you're charging. If not, have your wife hold the switch (engine running). You should see charging voltage on the house batteries. If holding the switch closes the solenoid, the problem is with the oil pressure switch.
You can work around the solenoid with a simple jumper cable. Let us know if you need to go to that step.
For what it's worth, I recently had my oil pressure switch "fail", and was about to buy a new one (from Kevin Waite) when it fixed itself. I never knew if is was a bad electrical connection or a balky switch. But while it was "failed", I just jumped the solenoid after startup each day.
(You didn't mention - - does the house bank charge from the generator/charger?)
Jay
05 Inspire 51457
Yahoo Message Number: 66296 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66296)
you may also want to check if you have an "ACR" installed between the chassis and house batteries -- my 2009 intrigue has one and the 60 amp fuse/breaker was tripped and I could not get the house batteries to charge from the engine despite a fully functional boost switch/solenoid.
Yahoo Message Number: 66339 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66339)
Bill;I had the same problem on my 02 intrigue#11436.replaced the oil pressure sending unit and all is well. Contact me via email or cell 815 222-0728 and I will walk you thru it.
Jim 02 intrigue 11436
Yahoo Message Number: 66343 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66343)
This really intrigues me! I would really like to know how changing the oil pressure sending unit can fix the charging problem ?
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66344 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66344)
It's not the oil pressure sending unit. It is a oil pressure switch.(2 lbs. on mine) When closed it completes a ground circuit that closes the battery boost solenoid so both batteries (chassis and domestic) can charge off of the alternator when the engine is running.
Kevin Burns
00 Affinity 5865
Yahoo Message Number: 66345 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66345)
In order to understand how an oil pressure sending unit (I think the original author meant switch) can effect battery charging you need to think about the relationship between your house and coach battery banks and how they are kept charged when the main engine is running as opposed to when on shore power or with the generator running.
Normally the two battery banks are not connected or possibly connected by means of an isolator to allow current to flow to the coach bank from the house bank but not the reverse. This to assure that the coach bank is not depleted by use of house accessories when parked which might make it impossible to start the main engine.
There is, however, the desirability to charge both banks from the alternator when the main engine is running. To accomplish this a solenoid switch operated by a remote manual switch could have been designed into the system so that after the engine is started you could connect both banks for charging from the alternator. In fact there is such a switch labeled "battery boost" which allows the operator to override the normally unconnected banks if for some reason the coach starting bank isn't up to the task and, hopefully, the house batteries still have juice. The engineers in their wisdom and desire to confuse us all and make everything automatic also supplied another switch to activate this solenoid connecting the two banks and this is activated automatically when the oil pressure builds up sufficiently to trip the switch and activate the solenoid switch that connects the two banks and allows the alternator to charge both banks when the main engine is running.
This, of course, creates a number of places where failure can occur, the oil pressure switch, the solenoid switch that actually connects the two banks probably located in the battery compartment to minimize the connection distance, or the alternator or related drive mechanism (belt + belt tension pulley). Unfortunately, when you have a situation where one bank isn't charging it's not obvious where the problem is although there may be clues.
One clue is that with a failed alternator you are able to get a normal voltage reading and charge both banks while going down the road by running your generator set and battery charger incorporated in your inverter. I think under such circumstance the oil pressure switch has to be functional for your coach DC meter to indicate proper voltage which corresponds to the charging cycles of the inverter/charger. Otherwise the coach batteries would charge but the house batteries would only be dependent on the "echo charger" which has a lower voltage output.
I'm just guessing at the mechanism described since I've never seen the workings of our charging system and battery banks in our manuals.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue#11410, ISL 400.
Yahoo Message Number: 66369 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66369)
I guess you learn something every day, and that is the benefit of this forum. If the pressure switch does not MAKE, then the theory is that the engine isn't running and therefore you would have no charging. I didn't check the year of the coach involved, but I would think the newer coaches with all the electronics would not have this problem.
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66374 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66374)
Ron,
I don't think you still have figured it out. The purpose of the switch is to disconnect the chassis batteries from the domestic batteries when the engine is not running so that you don't end up stranded somewhere. Just because the key is on doesn't mean the alternator is spinning. If it doesn't have oil pressure you better hope it's not spinning. At least that's my "theory". Your response is so condescending it irritates the ___ out of me.
Kevin Burns
00 Affinity 5865, Old outdated POS
Yahoo Message Number: 66375 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66375)
Kevin Not sure what you find condescending. In fact, I said the same thing, as your explanation---there has to be oil pressure before the connection is made. I thought it was a compliment that you can learn something on this forum every day. Lighten up man!!
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66376 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66376)
"Otherwise the coach batteries would charge but the house batteries would only be dependent on the "echo charger" which has a lower voltage output."
Jim M,
Good post, but wouldn't the Echo Charger be charging the coach batteries while the gen is running instead of the house batteries?
Tom
Trans-Specialists/Lifeline Batteries
01 Magna 5999
Yahoo Message Number: 66382 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66382)
Ron,
My bad. I guess I'll have to quit reading my emails at 1am after a long day when I'm not feeling good. I read my own email this morning and it was a bit nasty. I think I said what I did the way I did because Your comment "I didn't check the year of the coach involved, but I would think the newer coaches with all the electronics would not have this problem." I don't know if they started using another method to disconnect the chassis and domestic batteries from each other( when the engine isn't running) in the newer models but I never saw the design as a "problem". They also use the same oil pressure switch on my coach for the audible "Danger Low Oil Pressure" warning. But my guess is Your newer coach has the same method used in it, maybe not, but I would be interested in knowing how they did it in your newer coach if it is indeed an improved design. But to just automatically assume that because your coach is newer it is better and doesn't have these "problems" seems somewhat condescending.
Kevin
00 Affinity 5865,
Yahoo Message Number: 66385 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66385)
The answer to your question is "Yes, if the main engine is not running or the oil pressure switch is not functioning to, in effect, connect the two banks in parallel". The output of the echo charger (at least mine) is so low compared to the alternator or inverter/charger that it's incapable of really charging the coach bank. It's just meant to maintain the coach bank while stored on shore power. As near as I can see there's not place to adjust the voltage on my echo charger. later models may be different.
I don't pretend to be an expert on exactly how they've got these thing hooked up but when the main engine is running and the oil pressure switch (not simply the oil pressure sender) activates the solenoid or relay that connects the two battery banks then, if the generator set is running, the inverter/charger is charging both banks in parallel. The echo charger is there and on but its voltage output is relatively low compared to the inverter/charger or alternator. Your gauge, obviously, reads the highest voltage in the system depending on exactly how it's hooked up. If you have a functional oil pressure switch and run the generator while going down the road you will see that the voltage reading either on your panel DC meter or SilverLeaf monitor will reflect the 3 stage charging cycle voltage of the inverter/charger - not the relatively constant output of the alternator which doesn't have absorption, saturation and float cycles. Incidentally, as I assume most know, the charger part of the inverter is on regardless of whether the inverter is switched on. The only way to turn it off is to trip the inverter circuit breaker. At least that's the case with my unit.
I'm not really sure which is first in line, so to speak, for the charging entities, alternator, inverter/charger or echo charger but it would seem logical to have the system set up so that the alternator, if working, would charge the coach (start) batteries regardless of whether the banks were connected but would only charge the house batteries also it the oil pressure switch is functional, in effect, connecting both banks.
At the moment I have a problem with low DC readings with the main engine running and the generator set off (alternator only charging source) but when the generator is started the voltage jumps to the expected voltage from the inverter/charger and, if run long enough, cycles through the various charging cycles. I'm assuming I have a alternator problem and not an oil pressure switch problem and am due to have it checked during a service appointment in a couple days.
Jim M.
'02 Intrigue #11410, ISL400
Yahoo Message Number: 66398 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66398)
Jim: My understanding is that the echo charger only works one way - when the house bank has been charged (I think from any source - gen, shore, solar, etc) it allows current to flow to the chassis battery, thus maintaining a charge in it. It doesn't work the other way, will not try to charge house batteries from the chassis battery.
That job is done through the alternator circuit and as others have stated, it is dependent on having the engine running. The echo charge circuit works with no engine running, obviously.
Richard Owen '05 Inspire 51442
Yahoo Message Number: 66400 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66400)
I have experienced low voltage while the engine was running.
A new/rebuilt alternator fixed the problem. however during the install process I learned that the alternator requires a 12 volt source in order to put out the charging current ( no 12 v input, no output).
Bob Wexler
SOB
Yahoo Message Number: 66403 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66403)
I don't think the echo charger "knows" when the house battery is charged or has anything to do with the house batteries. I think the echo charger is "on" whenever there is AC current in the AC system, whether that's from the shore cord or the generator set. If you allow the coach start batteries to discharge a little. Check the voltage across the start battery terminals. Plug in shore power. Then recheck the voltage across the start (coach) battery (ies) I think you will find the voltage at whatever the echo charger is set to put out as long as there is AC whether from the shore cord or the generator set.
In any case that's the way mine works. The voltage reading across my start battery terminals is about 12.5VDC with 120VAC from either the shore cord or generator set. If the main engine is running the voltage across the terminals of the start battery and house batteries is identical meaning, of course, they are connected in parallel and that voltage is whatever the DC in the system is - whether from the alternator or inverter/charger.
Jim M. '02 Intrigue#11410, ISL400
Yahoo Message Number: 66412 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66412)
Thanks for your insight. I normally store my coach inside hooked up to 240VAC shore power with the inverter "off".When shore power is sensed the charger part of the inverter goes into action and starts its 3 stage charging routine. Starting around 14.4VDC and eventually stabilizing at 13.6VDC float voltage. This is displayed either on the inverter control panel or measured across the house battery terminals.
In the meantime, after it's been stored awhile, the house batteries still are at 13.6VDC float voltage with the indicator light on the inverter panel indicating a "full charge". The start coach battery, however, stabilizes at 12.6 VDC measured at the battery. This is with the green light on the echo charger "on" indicating it is working OK. AS far as I know there is no means for the user to adjust the voltage of the echo charger up to a float level of 13.6VDC which might be desirable and possibly is a feature or later models echo chargers. I check the electrolyte level in all batteries every couple weeks.
This 12.6VDC level is marginal when it comes to starting but is usually enough. In any case the "Battery Boost" feature is available to allow connecting the house batteries in parallel with the coach start battery.
I normally hook up an electronic automotive charger with auto cutoff across the start battery terminals in parallel with the echo charger every few weeks and the day before I anticipate getting the coach out. The output across the start battery terminals is 13.6 VDC when this charger is hooked up.
I believe there have been a few posts on this site where people who have stored their coaches hooked up to shore power for a considerable period have found their start coach batteries without enough juice to start their coach. Perhaps I misunderstood their postings.
I believe what you are referring to in your 1st paragraph below is an isolator installed so as to allow current to flow from the house batteries to the coach (start) battery but not the other way around. I have no idea whether the CC's have such an isolator in the system. In order for the main engine alternator to be able to charge both the coach start battery and the house batteries there has to be a heavy duty switch (200A solenoid) operated by oil pressure or manually (Battery Boost). This, of course, bypasses any isolator in the system so that both battery banks are charged while going down the road and, incidentally, are also charged by the generator set if running via the inverter/charger while going down the road. If you've ever observed your voltmeter while going down the road on a really hot day while running your generator set and roof top AC's you will see the VDC displayed corresponding to the charger output of your inverter.
Jim M.
'02Intrigue#11410, ISL400
Yahoo Message Number: 66415 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66415)
The Echo Charger operation is independent from the presence of 120VAC. The EC device has three connections.
red fused to house positive
red fused to chassis positive
black to ground
The device senses voltage on the house battery. If VDC is 12.8 or higher it sends current to the chassis battery. If house VAC is below 12.8 it is idle.
My coach sits outside without power. I have a solar charge system on the roof. My chassis battery is charged every sunny day as the house battery exceeds 12.8 volts.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66417 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66417)
What is the charge voltage put out by your echo charger across the start battery terminals when the house bank is >12.8 (I assume you meant VDC not VAC)?
In any case that's good to know in trying to understand how the system works. In other words the echo charger is bleeding off current from the house batteries to the coach start batteries when the house batteries exceed 12.8VDC which makes sense. I'm not sure I understand why the voltage it's "bleeding" to the coach start battery is less than whatever the house batteries are at but apparently - at least in the case of my coach - the voltage limit to the coach battery is 12.6VDC instead of the 13.6 VDC float voltage on the house batteries measured at the same time. This might be explained by the echo charger actually being an inefficient isolator allowing current to flow from the house to the coach battery while dropping the VDC from whatever the coach system ( in my case 13.6VDC) is to 12.6VDC.
Jim M.
'02 Intrigue#11410ISL400
Yahoo Message Number: 66418 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66418)
Jim, yes I did mean VDC. I just checked the Echo Charge documentation and my memory was wrong about 12.8 VDG as the beginning charge point. It is 13.0 VDC as quotedfrom the manual below.
"When the input voltage is 13.0/25.5 volts DC or higher, echo-charge automatically switches ON. The LED glows a steady green. When the input voltage is lower than 13.0/25.5 volts, the echo-charge automatically switches OFF, and the LED blinks green. The output voltage of echocharge is limited to 14.4/28.8 volts. When it reaches 14.4/28.8 volts, the charge current will decrease, maintaining a float condition. The starter battery will be fully charged without overcharging.
No load current drain on the house bank is less than 50 milli-amps.
If the input voltage is above 14.4 volts (or 28.8), output will be limited to a maximum of 14.4/28.8 volts."
Here is a link to the Xantrex Echo Charge Manual.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Accessories/Auxiliary-Battery-Charger/Echo-charge-OwnerGuide( (http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Accessories/Auxiliary-Battery-Charger/Echo-charge-OwnerGuide()445-0204-01-01).pdf
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66419 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66419)
On mine, the echo charger is connected to both the engine and house battery but it does not charge the house battery. When the house battery reaches a charge of 13 volts, it triggers the the echo charger to begin charging the engine battery. The installation diagram shows the echo charger connected to both engine and house batteries. Here's a link the the echo charger intallation and operational manual which is in the file section on this site:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cAIETZZYefxvrInZ468KQu8zEtN0QoFby4UATKNLh7u2RF10zw2vpGDFPv0DINAehdjRUJAuHYbpRGC3bpUyT7AAGpY/Digital_echo_charge_Xantrex.pdf (http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cAIETZZYefxvrInZ468KQu8zEtN0QoFby4UATKNLh7u2RF10zw2vpGDFPv0DINAehdjRUJAuHYbpRGC3bpUyT7AAGpY/Digital_echo_charge_Xantrex.pdf)
Hope it works. If not, go to the file section on the left of this screen and find the manual there. The diagram is on page 8.
When going down the road, I believe the alternator is charging all batteries.
By the way, my engine battery voltage is always 13+ volts when plugged into shore power. Anything less that 13 volts (12.5?) tells me I may have a problem, which usually means the echo charger fuse is blown.
Larry, 03 Allure 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 66420 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66420)
I didn't answer your question about voltage output from the Echo Charge. I don't know what my voltage on the chassis battery is as I have never checked it. I do know that it is fully charged by the way it starts a cold engine. I doubt 12.6. I'll check when I get a chance. No sunshine in the forecast here for the next few days.
I also see that my link to the EC doesn't work. I don't know how to fix it so you can cut and paste if you wish to see the doc.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66421 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66421)
I'm not sure of the brand echo charger I have but I've heard later model CC's have a better one than the '02 models. In any case mine seems to be limited to about 12.6 VDC measured across the start battery when the coach batteries measure 13.6 float voltage. The echo charge may be faulty but its light is steady green. That link to the echo charger manual will be helpful.
Your description of how it works makes better sense than the way mine appears to be working.
Thanks.
Jim M.
'02 Intrigue#11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66423 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66423)
Jim, after thinking about your description of how yours is operating I wonder about the condition of your chassis battery.
The EC is pushing amps to try and bring the voltage of the Chassis battery voltage to equal the house battery. If it can't get there I suspect either a problem with the ECor the chassis battery. With your green led lit I suspect the chassis battery.
I think you have the same Echo Charge in an '02 as I have in an '04. I don't think they have changed much, if at all.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66424 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66424)
Jim: You will never see much increase in voltage on the chassis battery from the echo charger. It is a "maintaining" device, not a full 3-stage charging method like the inverter/charger offers.
No, they are not adjustable. The unit has the ability to detect when house bank is charging (by measuring voltage) and it will direct a some of that power to the chassis battery if the voltage is high enough. The charge rate is limited to 15 amps. The newer Echo Chargers are the same. And no, I am not referring to an isolator, I am referring to the Echo Charger - it allows power to go only one way so that the house batteries don't ever draw down the starting battery.
Richard Owen '05 Inspire 51442
Yahoo Message Number: 66425 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66425)
Jim
I suspect your echo charger is not working. That green light is deceiving. The steady green light on mine has glowed even with a blown fuse. I have two fuses (the diagram only shows one), one EC fuse goes to the house battery and the other EC fuse goes to the engine battery. I believe your engine battery fuse could be blown. I'm not sure, but I think a good house battery EC fuse would allow the green light to glow steady (EC on) and it is putting out a charge to nowhere because the engine battery fuse is blown. If you have to use a seperate charger on your engine battery, then the EC is not doing it's job IMO. I think you should see 13+ volts on the engine battery without using a seperate charger. The EC and fuses on mine are located in the inverter area. I would check your EC fuses.
Larry, 03 Allure, 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 66426 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66426)
From the information being circulated, I was in error by stating that you would not see higher voltages on the start battery due to echo charging. In fact, I would investigate the operation of the echo charger if it doesn't show higher voltages. In thinking about it now, I have seen 14V on the chassis battery after sitting for a few days.
Richard Owen '05 Inspire 51442
Yahoo Message Number: 66428 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66428)
Initial peek at the echo charger documentation on the Xantex site indicates if the green light is on steady if the connection is OK to the house batteries. They don't say that it necessarily indicates the connection to the coach start battery is good or that the echo charger is working as it's supposed to. Because my coach start bank indicates a steady 12.6VDC while on shore power with the house bank indicating 13.6 float voltage from my inverter/charger I'm guessing the echo charger is not hooked up to the coach start battery or is malfunctioning.
Stay tuned. I'm going down to my shop where the RV is stored and check it out as best I can tomorrow. I'm not sure where the fuses are located. The manual implies they are internal and replaceable only by the factory. Are there separate in line fuses in the lines to the house and coach batteries?
Jim M, '02 Intrigue#11410 ISL400.
Yahoo Message Number: 66430 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66430)
Long story, but I recently discovered that at least my 8K watt Onan has its own DC charging line to the house batteries. Does up to about 15 amps as I recall. It is an option. That is what Onan said.
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 66431 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66431)
According to the manual I have, the green LED comes on when the Echo Charger "sees" the house battery. That says it is simply connected to the house batteries, the fuse to the house batteries is good, and the voltage is 13.0 VDC or more.
If this LED is blinking, the house batteries are below 13.0VDC and this also means the Echo Charger will not start charging the chassis batteries. The idea is that if the voltage is over 13.0 VDC, you are charging the house battery and the Echo Charger will 'steal' some of the charge to charge the chassis battery - up to 15 amps worth. (Some have written this threshold to be 12.9 VDC and others 12.8 VDC. Probably just a variation in the components that make up the Echo Charger. My manual says 13.0 VDC. Mine actually kicks in somewhere around 12.9 VDC.) If the Echo Charger sees something less than 13.0 VDC, it knows the house batteries are not being charged and it should not attempt to 'steal' any charge from them.
With all batteries healthy, the Echo Charger can put out voltage to the chassis batteries that is almost the same as the house batteries, just slightly less.
If this is not happening, it is possible the Echo Charger is bad, the fuse from the Echo Charger to the chassis batteries is blown (20 amp I think), or one or more of the chassis batteries are bad and is sucking the voltage down trying to get all the amps. I would check the fuse first. If OK, then disconnect the chassis batteries from everything and each other and individually check the voltage on them after sitting for a while. No point in checking the output of the Echo Charger if the chassis batteries are disconnected because of the next item - the Echo Charger must "see" the chassis batteries before it will output.
One other thing of note - if the LED is blinking green, this could also be because the difference between the house and chassis batteries is greater than 10 Volts - a possible indication the fuse to the chassis batteries is blown since that means the Echo Charger will not be able to "see" the chassis batteries.
Mike Cebula
'95 Magna 5266
Yahoo Message Number: 66433 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66433)
Jim, there are separate, in line fuses. The fuse holders I have seen CC install are yellow. They should be located right near the EC and also near the battery boost solenoid. The red wires from the EC are likely to be connected to each side of the boost solenoid.
Yahoo Message Number: 66436 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66436)
Can anybody tell me where the fuse from the echo charger to the coach start battery is, in the echo charger, loose in the line someplace or mounted on some fuse board presumably in the battery compartment? I don't have the coach documents and wiring diagrams here at home with me but my experience has been that while the wiring diagrams may show the fuses pretty well they are not always clear on exactly where those fuses are.
Jim M
Yahoo Message Number: 66438 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66438)
Which raises another related question. Where is the battery boost solenoid? Again I assume it is in the battery compartment close to the batteries but I've never looked for it before.
Thanks,
Jim M
Yahoo Message Number: 66440 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66440)
Jim, I can't tell you where your EC, Boost Solenoid and related fuses are but I can tell you where mine are. High in the battery bay is a metal box with a metal cover held on by four wing nuts. Behind that door are all the items for which you are searching......on my coach. Your mileage may vary.
Good luck.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66441 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66441)
Gotcha. In my coach the access panel is held on by two wing nuts that fit into diagonal slots on the cover. Inside one can see the inverter and the echo charger but I've never looked for anything but to observe the echo charger green light - which is on steady. I would have expected the boost solenoid to be somewhere in the battery compartment itself with thick cables to channel the current between the two banks of batteries a minimal distance.
Thanks,
Jim M
Yahoo Message Number: 66448 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66448)
My INLINE EC fuses are located on the EC wires about 8-10" down stream from the EC.
Larry, 03 Allure, 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 66452 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66452)
Jim,
What batteries are using for the house? If they're Lifeline, your float voltage is too high and should be between 13.2 and 13.4. My float is set at 13.2 and that is the voltage for my vintage Echo Charger to start. At 13.2 float, my EC is showing 12.9 - 13.0 on the start batteries as measured with my Fluke.
My Alternator is adjustable and shows 13.6 at the house batteries when running by using the Link 2000. My Silverleaf shows 13.7 while driving for the start batteries. The CC gauge is a joke and might show 12v on a good day!
Tom
Trans-Specialists/Lifeline Batteries
01 Magna 5999
Yahoo Message Number: 66454 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66454)
Thanks for your help in indicating where I might find the inline EC fuses.
Jim M.
'02 intrigue#11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66457 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66457)
My house batteries are lead/acid deep cycle D8's and the start battery a lead/acid D8 start battery (not deep cycle). Don't know the cold cranking amps offhand but probably around 1020. None are LifeTimes.
Inverter/charger set up for correct battery types and floats at 13.6 VDC. Problem is that my coach start battery measures across its terminals at 12.7VDC when the house batteries are floating at 13.6 VDC. As far as I can recall it's always been this way so that when the coach is stored hooked up to shore power the coach battery is never quite charged all the way up. I hadn't been familiar with how the EC was supposed to function until confronted with low DC while going down the road offset by running the generator set. With the main engine running the two battery banks are connected through the "boost" solenoid activated by the oil pressure switch so both banks are charged via the inverter/charger.
I suspect the chronic low charge of the coach battery while stored has resulted in its failure although the alternator may be failing too. In any case the EC is not charging the coach battery adequately when on shore power either due to a defect or possibly a blown fuse. The EC green light is on and steady which, I understand, simply means it's connected to the house batteries OK but not necessarily that it's functions OK.
Thanks and stay tuned for the latest. I just hope I can get it started and over to the service shop on Tuesday.
Jim M.
'02 Intrigue#11410, ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66463 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66463)
Tom,
Float voltage for AGM batteries is not a fixed voltage or range. The float voltage depends on temperature and varies from 15.86 VDC at -40 degrees F to 13.00 VDC at 160 degrees. A more relevant range is 14.08 VDC at 30 degrees F to 13.25 VDC at 80 degrees F. This is why you want to have a temperature sensor attached to the battery bank feed data to the inverter/charger.
The Lifeline Technical Manual can be found here.
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf (http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf)
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66469 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66469)
No one has mentioned the possibility that the house and starting battery leads to the Echo Charger are reversed. The EC is a "diode-like" device - one direction of charging only!
If the red wires are reversed, the starting battery doesn't charge when the house batteries reach 13+ VDC. In the past there have been numerous reports of coaches leaving the factory with the EC wires reversed.
It took me several months to figure out why my starting battery kept discharging when I was attached to shore power. All fuses were good, but the red wires were reversed. When I switched the leads, my problem was immediately solved.
--
Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Yahoo Message Number: 66470 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66470)
Good thought. According to the Xantec manual for the EC the red wire with the yellow trace is the one that goes to the coach start batteries and the solid red goes to the house bank. My EC is actually labeled as a Heart EC but otherwise appears identical to the Xantec manual. I've just now discovered where the EC and other associated accessories are in the shelf above the batteries in the battery compartment. Unfortunately the access door isn't big enough to allow access to the in line fuses in question so I'll need to remove the whole panel in which the access door is mounted. Not an insurmountable problem but still not something you should have to do to open the fuse holders to check the fuses. As near as I can tell from looking at the wires and how they are connected each goes to the correct battery bank.
I've rechecked numerous times and my start battery voltage is 12.7VDC when the house batteries show 13.6 VDC while at float and when the inverter/charger starts to cycle through the stages as when first turned on the house batteries go to 14.4 to start but there's no change in the coach start batteries. Before I do anything else I need to pull the in line fuses and make sure both are intact. Too bad the fuse holders can't be manipulated with one hand.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue#11410
Yahoo Message Number: 66472 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66472)
I bought 4 agm 8D batteries from Les Schwab a few weeks ago and then replaced the Modified sine wave converter with a Magnum 2812 pure sine wave inverter. The new inverter remote had two settings for AGM batteries. I choose the first one that was for Lifeline AGM batteries not understanding that there is a difference in the float with Lifeline batteries and other AGM batteries.
I set the inverter for starting the generator when the SOC get down to 55% AND shut off at 90% according to some reading I did. The problem is that the inverter will do its own thing to search for the SOC after a discharge and recharge. After a week it was still searching and never did run the generator unless I manually started it. The float never could be reached and the voltage stayed between 12.9 and 13.4. I went back and reread the instructions and figured that I would try the AGM2 setting for the type of battery and the inverter found the SOC in about two hours and it upped the charge voltage to 13.8 volts.
Bottom line is that the Magnum has a preset for the LIfelines that is different from all the other AGM batteries that seemd to like a higher float voltage. Not sure what I have for AGM's but at rest they sit at 13.8 volts but seemed to be starving for more amps in when on the lifeline setting.
Sure do like the 2800 watt pure sine wave inverter with the external shunt and auto gen start. Everything works perfect on it. I have a residential refrig, dishwasher, garbage disposal, ceramic heater (which hates the modified sine wave, by letting out a little magic smoke) and digital clocks that keep time.
Dallas 2004 intigue ovation C12 11688
Yahoo Message Number: 66478 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66478)
As previously noted my coach start battery shows 12.7VCD when the coach is stored with shore power and the inverter/charger chargers the house batteries so they reach a float status of 13.6VDC. I believe the echo charge should track the house battery voltage but only be fractionally lower. The Echo charger shows a constant green light. I'm not absolutely sure but I think this has been the case since I bought the coach - at least I don't ever remember checking the voltage and finding the coach start battery almost equal to the the house batteries when parked with shore power and the inverter charger maintaining the voltage. I just finished removing the whole access panel to the inverter, echo charger and other hardware in the upper part of the battery compartment so as to get at the two fuses in the output lines of the echo charger. Mine is a Heart but appears identical to the Xantec manual downloaded from the web. I was unable to dismantle the two fuse holders but their connection from the echo charger to the fuse holders and thence to their respective batteries could be disconnected and there is no break in the continuity or evidence of an open fuse through the fuse holder and to their respective battery cable.. The two lines and ground from the EC appear to be connected correctly according to the placard on the EC and the connectors are installed so they cannot be inadvertently swapped. Put the whole thing back together and connected the batteries, returned the cutout switches to on and plugged in shore power. No change in the relative voltages between the start and house batteries with the coach start battery being about 12.7 VDC even though the house batteries are cycling through the inverter/charger stages eventually settling on a 13.6 float. I'd guess now that narrows things down to a defective EC or maybe bad coach start battery. A lot of work without finding the source of the problem. I didn't try intentionally reversing the battery bank connections. To do so would have required fabricating a couple short adapters with male/female terminal connectors oat each end and I didn't have any crimp connectors handy.
Got a service appointment in a day or so to check the alternator and condition of the coach battery besides routine annual stuff. I doubt the shop is very familiar with echo chargers.
Any further suggestions appreciated.
Stay tuned.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue#11410, ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66479 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66479)
Jim, we love a challenge on this forum and every so often we get one solved.
Would you have time to clean and check the battery terminals for tightness. Having spent many years in service and repair I preached to my employees. If it's. anything electrical the first thing I want done is clean the battery connections, check the battery. Also in proper order is... ground. Next age of battery ? For all they do, some fail even at a young age. It's the place to start on anything electrical.
AL
00 Affinity
Yahoo Message Number: 66480 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66480)
Well Jim, that's discouraging. I'd hate to think it's a bad EC, but I guess it's possible. I know those fuse connectors are hard to separate. I think I initially had to twist them off while pulling. The gold standard for checking the wet engine batteries IMO, is with a hydrometer. If you can't get 4 balls floating in each cell after charging for 24 hours, then you have a bad battery. But, since you mentioned that you obtained 13+ volts with a separate charger, it seems unlikely that you have a bad battery. I would still check it though.
Larry, 03 Allure, 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 66481 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66481)
Before working on the EC I disconnected all the ground cables from all batteries and after that tightened the positive cables although I didn't actually remove and clean them. No visible corrosions etc. and I had removed all the batteries a six months ago to clean all the terminals and clean and paint the frame of the battery compartment so I don't think that's the problem. Batteries all same age - both start and house installed Spring of '07.
Jim M.
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66482 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66482)
Kevin chill out we here to help each other! Ken 99 Allure.
Yahoo Message Number: 66486 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66486)
Good to hear.
Installed in spring of '07, that puts the battery age about 4 years. Might be worth look at manufacture dates. I think most will agree at or close to 5 years there out of here.
AL
00Affinity
Yahoo Message Number: 66487 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66487)
Jim:
In your previous posts' did you mention difficulty starting the rig after being stored plugged in? I believe the echo charger provides a "trickle charge" once the battery is full and 12.7 Volts should be ok. Since you have a green light on the charger I suspect you are looking for a non-existent problem. Bear in mind that the starting battery is a different animal from the house battery and the parasitic loads are quite small whereas the constant loads on the house batteries require that they be constantly "topped off". You certainly need to do the periodic maintenance for the batteries, but I don't see a problem.
Regards,
Dale Ford
04 Intrigue 11713
Yahoo Message Number: 66488 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66488)
Good call Tom. The leads on my echo charge were reversed from the factory, took me some time to figure it out. When I talked to CC rep he said there were a few that the leads were reversed.
Earl Densten
03 Intrigue 11554
Yahoo Message Number: 66489 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66489)
The green light, means NOTHING. I was having the same problems and my mechanic said it was the echo charger I mentioned the green light.
Short story, changed the echo charger, no more problems.
George
'04 Inspire 51061
Yahoo Message Number: 66490 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66490)
Greetings from not-so-balmy Florida!
Somewhere along the line the topic of "alternator charging coach batteries" became an Echo Charger issue. This is a good time to remind ourselves to change the subject line to fit the actual subject. I'm as guilty as the next guy at just replying to a long since departed subject. Moderator Herb can't do this for us.
When we search the archives for help, it is a lot smoother when the subject line fits the discussion.
Just sayin'...
Merry Christmas!
Jay
05 Inspire
Yahoo Message Number: 66494 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66494)
We're considering doing just that particularly for the coach start battery. Not sure whether mixing a new coach battery with older house batteries is a no, no, particularly if the house batteries appear to have been kept fully charged. I know one shouldn't mix different aged batteries in the same bank but this is a start battery in a different bank even though they are, is effect, connected while driving down the road.
Any rules of thumb on the subject?
Jim M
'02 Intrigue#11410, ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66495 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66495)
According to the wire coding and placard on the EC the leads are connected to the correct battery banks. The connectors are arranged so that it's impossible to connect them differently without an adapter or jumper. Do you mean that the wire coding was incorrect so that if the directions were followed the wires were hooked up to the wrong battery bank? I checked mine for continuity from the EC connector through the fuse holder to the battery bank terminal in the battery compartment and they appear to be correct, red to house, red striped to coach.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66497 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66497)
Good point. As you've noted the problem started as a low voltage indication after starting on a trip which suggests and may well be primarily an alternator and/or bad battery problem but kind of segued into an Echo Charger subject while trying to figure out why the start battery bank voltage was consistently low in spite of storage on shore power which appeared to keep the house batteries charged OK, apparently a problem with the EC which others have had and noted with lots of discussion resulting on exactly how the EC is supposed to work, the way it should be connected and location of components not to mention possible improved substitutes for the EC. For me the whole discussion has been very educational. The alternator/start battery problem will be attacked and hopefully corrected at our local diesel service center today but it seem we're pretty much on our own when it comes to EC and their foibles.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66498 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66498)
Hello All
I posteed about my echo charger issue a little over a year ago. From the factory, both EC leads were wired to the house battery! This was found on my coach at the combiner solenoid operated by engine oil pressure. ALSO, CC had added their own fuse, in addition to the EC fuses, on the chassis battery EC circuit. It was a 7 amp fuse! The EC manual says that the chassis battery circuit can charge at 15 amps - duh! Found this fuse, changed to 15 amps, thereafter no problem and fully charged chassis batteries. Because of the constant phantom draw on the chassis batteries the voltage was somewhat lower than the house batteries.
Kindest Regards,
Brad Burgess
Former 08 Intrigue #12249
Yahoo Message Number: 66501 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66501)
Yes, and the factory was still reversing leads on the Echo Charger several years later, on a batch of 2007 Allures around serial number 31466!!!!!
Herb
Forum Moderator
2007 Allure 430 #31466 (manufactured 07/2006)
Yahoo Message Number: 66502 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66502)
It has been several years, but if I remember correctly the Echo Charger has two leads, a Red lead and a Red/White lead, one goes to the Inverter and the other goes to the chassis battery. There are inline fuses on each lead, somehow at the factory they were reversed.
Earl Densten
03 Intrigue 11554
Yahoo Message Number: 66503 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66503)
This situation has been mentioned but the authors don't state that the solid red lead from the EC was connected to the coach start batteries and the striped red led was connected to the house deep cycle batteries but I presume that is what is mean by "reversing the leads" since the EC manual and placard on the device clearly indicate the solid red goes to the house deep cycle batteries. This can be checked by looking at the installation but in order to see the details you need to take off the entire panel behind which the inverter and other hardware including the EC is mounted - a real gem of convenience in design and planning. Just taking off the inspection panel window cover isn enough.
Incidentally the EC manual states it should be mounted on a vertical surface and, at least in my coach, it's mounted on the ceiling of the compartment - maybe handy for the installer and space saving but making it difficult to read the placard and being sure which lead lead where.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue#11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 66504 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66504)
That is correct but which factory, CC or the manufacturers of the EC? Actually it's a red lead with a yellow stripe that supposed to go to the coach start battery according to the installation manual.
Jim M
Yahoo Message Number: 66980 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66980)
Interesting discussions in this thread. I am also having a problem with my chasis batteries not charging when I am plugged in. I previously had a problem with my coach batteries not charging but found the charger function had been turned off somehow on the inverters. Easy fix thanks to some help from this forum. The coach batteries are working fine now however my chasis batteries are not charging. When I actually run the engine they charge quickly, but they don't hold the charge.
I found my echo charger (thanks to the forum) and the green light is on and both fuses are fine. So two questions. First question is how can I tell if the echo charger is actually sending a charge to the chasis batteries? My chasis batteries were drained completely several times so I am afraid they may be shot now. Second question is if there is a way to tell if the batteries are shot without taking them out and bringing to a shop?
Thanks for the help!
TJ
6525M
'06 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 66981 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66981)
You can use a volt meter to check the batteries. Any battery under 12 volts resting is shot. Should have over 13 volts if they are getting any kind of a charge. You should not have any draw on the starter batteries setting, so strongly suspect they are shot. Another check is to use a hydrometer and check each cell. Also can use a digital voltmeter to check voltage of each cell. Remove caps and stick the leads in the water from one cell to the next. A bad cell can pull down the batteries as one cell can internally discharge and it only takes one bad cell to have a bad battery. If one battery is bad, need to replace both as a set. Suspect your batteries are 4 to 5 years old. Most likely end of life.
Leonard
97' Magna 5418
Yahoo Message Number: 66994 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66994)
I read the echo charger service manual on line and came to the following conclusions. This is my opinion only and would welcome any corrections by the experts here.
The echo charger is not really a charger per se (it does not take AC power and create DC power to add to your battery) but rather think of it as a siphon that takes "spare" power from your house battery and gives it to your chassis battery. The bigger the difference between the two batteries the less power it gives (it shuts off at 2 volts difference). I interpret this to mean that it will not allow a dead chassis battery to drain a good house battery. I think it is designed to maintain a charge level in the chassis battery in a HEALTHY system when you are plugged into shore power. If your chassis battery is in a weak condition the echo will not keep it charged. (by design) So for instance if you are plugged in, the house batteries are fully charged, and over a period of time you are losing a little chassis battery power (let's say by frequent use of the electric door locks) the echo charger will give it a little power from the house battery until they are equally charged.
My chassis battery would not stay charged for more than a day or two, I had a green light and good fuses on the echo charger. I changed the 4 year old 8D and my problem went away.
John
Yahoo Message Number: 66996 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66996)
I agree with your understanding I have had a conditioner installed on the chassis batteries for more than five years. A green LED on the unit indicates a voltage greater than 13 volts The lite is visible through the door louvers This is a unit designed for OTR truckers
BOB 06 intrigue 12047
Yahoo Message Number: 66997 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66997)
Hello All
I posted on this last year - check archives. My echo charger was incorrectly wired from the factory - BOTH leads were attached to house battery points - the green light was on but it was just a big loop! Also, CC inserted it's own fuse in the chassis battery line (in addition to the two slo-blow fuses provided with the EC.) They used a 7.5 amp fuse in an EC line that generates up to 15 amps DC - DUH! Changed out wiring to be correct and replaced the 7.5 amp fuse with a 15 - no more problems and very happy chassis batteries. If interested please feel free to call me at 480-502-2651. These issues were NOT uncommon with CC Echo Charger wiring.
Kindest Regards,
Brad Burgess
UTB (used to be) 08 Intrigue #12249
Yahoo Message Number: 66999 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66999)
Glad to hear your problem went away with new batteries. I have similar problem and have brand new batteries, both chassis start and house AGM deep cycle and, unfortunately, after sitting for a few days plugged in to shore power I find my new coach start battery dropped to 10 VDC even though, theoretically, the echo "charger" should have been tracking the house bank through the charger cycles to reach the current 13.6 VDC float voltage (house bank). I understand that the design of the "echo charger" is such that the start battery never quite gets to the identical voltage level as the house batteries but with a functioning inverter/charger is should come closer than 2 VDC difference.
I recently opened up the compartment with the echo charger and it appears the fuses for the echo charger are intact and that is connected correctly on either side of the "battery boost" solenoid (red wire to house/striped wire to start side). I'm concluding that the echo charger itself may be faulty or been damaged and have ordered a new one to substitute. It's unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be any test or reset function to verify this gadget is actually working other than plug into shore power and check the coach start battery to see if it's holding voltage. In the meantime I keep the start battery up with a "battery minder" type charger but that's not really a substitute for a properly functioning echo charger.
It's worth noting that the echo charger installation in CC's is not exactly correct as per the installation manual. it is hooked up on either side of the boost solenoid rather than directly to the batteries and, at least in my coach, is mounter horizontally upside down on the ceiling of the inverter compartment rather than vertically as is specifically recommended in the install manual. I've also heard a significant number were installed with the leads reversed.
i agree with your description that the "echo charger" is not a battery charger in the usual sense but rather is more a sophisticated isolator that allows current to flow from a house bank to the start battery within certain programmed parameters by sensing the voltage status of each battery bank.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400.
Yahoo Message Number: 67006 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67006)
Where was that 7.5 A fuse in the echo charger circuit?
I just checked my wiring diagram for the 12 V wiring and boost system and note that the schematic is incorrect. It has the red echo charger wire going to the start (chassis) battery and the striped one going to the domestic (house) battery. Recently I checked mine and thought they were correct but I'm going back to recheck and see if, in fact, it was wired according to this diagram in which case it would explain my continued trouble getting the echo charger to work.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 67017 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67017)
James, I would think that once your house batteries are charged, you should be able to check the function of the echo charger by measuring the voltage at the leads coming off of the echo charger. If you have a clamp ammeter, you could also measure the current.
I know this does not help, but I have no problem with my Echo at all, on shore or solar power. I do have AGM chassis and house batteries.
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 67021 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67021)
Thanks, Rich. After discovering the new chassis start battery down to 10 VDC I brought it up to 12.95VDC using a low output battery minder type charger, then disconnected and rechecked the voltage across the chassis battery terminals after a few hours and found it was holding at 12.95VDC (house floating at 13.6VDC) so my echo charger may be working OK now that the batteries are all good and closer to the same voltage. I don't know how one can check the output of the EC other than at the chassis terminals while everything is connected and charging. If you disconnect the output of the EC then it's disconnected from the chassis batteries and can't sense their status so that a reading from that wire probably wouldn't mean anything.
In going over the wiring diagrams I got with the coach I find the wiring connection for the EC incorrect on the detailed pullout for the inverter compartment, ie. the red wire from the EC is shown attached to the chassis side terminal of the booster solenoid and the striped to the domestic (house) side. On the other hand on the large wiring layout diagram for the whole coach the EC is shown wired just the opposite (correct) way. I've got to pull off the compartment wall on which the small access panel is mounted again, unbundle the wires and make absolutely sure which side of the solenoid my EC wires are attached and where the main cable on those terminals go - chassis battery or domestic (house) bank - a real PIA.
On those two wiring diagrams, incidentally, the cable size from the solenoid to the hot (battery) side of the cutoff switches are reversed between the two drawings, one being 2 ga and the other 0/2 so one can't simply look at the solenoid terminal main cable size and be sure of where they wind up.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 67022 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67022)
Hi Rich,
Just a minor point. A clamp on ammeter is basically an AC device. It will not do well at measuring DC currents. There are clamp on devices that use different technologies that will do better but would probably not be found in the average RVer's tool chest.
Sorry for being a pain. Maybe it is the lousy weather here in AL.
Don Seager
Yahoo Message Number: 67038 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67038)
James, you are way ahead of me!
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 67040 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67040)
Don, since the weather is lousy, why don't you go to Sears and look at their clamp ammeters. I just got one for around $60 that measures DC current accurately enough for general purposes. I used it on my solar cells and it worked and on my car. It got good reviews. It even comes with a thermocouple. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482369000P (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482369000P)
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 67042 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67042)
Rich, Sorry my bad. That's what happens when you have been away from it for 15 years. Well at least I now have to go research how they make it work. That should keep in my place for a little while. Oh, no Sears here either, darn
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Yahoo Message Number: 67075 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67075)
Jim,
As previously discussed with you, I'm having same problems you are & did diagnostic work on my EC yesterday--which is blinking green. Determined that red EC wire went to house batteries by unplugging the red wire connection & checking voltage at that lead which matched that of the house batteries. Did the same with the red/white wire & it matched the voltage on the chassis battery. I believe the wiring is correct since it matched the wiring diagram on the EC--I'll double check that though. Wouldn't this check method preclude you from having to disassemble the panel & unbundle wires?
My chassis batteries measured 13.7 volts and I was getting no output from the EC--although I broke the connection to the chassis battery to measure this. Is this a legitimate check of the EC? I'm assuming my EC is bad.
One other question for the forum: my surge protector is humming pretty loud when plugged into shore power. Is this an indication that it needs to be replaced or does it just need to be maintained?
Thanks,
Fred Compton
2002 Intrigue # 11407
Yahoo Message Number: 67077 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67077)
Funny on my Echo Charger the LED is for over temp!Mine is wired the same way and mounted on the floor of the inverter comp. Must be the 99 Era! Thanks for sharing. Ken 99 Allure 30356.
Yahoo Message Number: 67083 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67083)
I assume that you were measuring the voltage between the EC wires and ground, not through the EC, and that the two voltages matched those taken when checked at the chassis and domestic (house) banks and that because the chassis voltage was 13.7 VDC and although you didn't mention what it actually was I assume the house voltage was significantly higher although 13.7 VDC sounds right for what the float voltage should be on the house batteries. From this I would conclude that the EC wires are connected to the correct battery banks (red to house, striped to start) and that your EC is, in fact, working if your chassis batteries are maintained at 13.7VDC.
In my case I had new start battery drop to 10VDC after a couple days while the house on the charger/inverter was floating at 13.7 VDC. I've visually checked and the wires on my EC are connected correctly and I'm monitoring the charge status daily. Yesterday my chassis (start) battery was holding at 12.97 VDC which is OK so my system may be working OK after I had brought up the chassis battery up with a battery minder type of charger. Now it's sitting in my shop hooked to shore power and no other charge source than the inverter/charger.
As near as I can tell there is no way to actually determine or test whether these EC's are actually working other than hooking up to shore power and observing the relative voltage of the chassis and domestic batteries. They should stay within 1 VDC of each other assuming no extraordinary draws on either system. If you disconnect the wire from the EC to the chassis battery then the EC has no way to sense the chassis battery status and presumably control current into the EC output to the chassis line. The green light simply indicates the input wire is hooked up to a 12 VDC source - not whether the device is actually working properly.
Stay tuned.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 67105 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67105)
Fred,
Something doesn't sound right. If you remove the EC from the start battery, the voltage at rest should be in the high 12's at best. Having 13.7 with no charging source may indicate a meter problem. The house with the EC unhooked at 13.7 is showing your float voltage from the charger.
Tom
Trans-Specialists/Lifeline Batteries
01 Magna 5999
www.trans-specialists.net (http://www.trans-specialists.net)
Yahoo Message Number: 67110 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67110)
Tom,
I misspoke. The measurement on the house batteries was 13.7 volts with the charger floating. The measurement of the chassis battery was 12.4 V. The echo charger was exhibiting a "blinking" green light which apparently indicates that the house batteries are less than 13.0V. Since the house batteries were at 13.7V & I was getting no output on the chassis side of the EC, I am assuming the EC is bad.
Fred Compton
2002 Intrigue # 11407
Yahoo Message Number: 67124 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67124)
With the voltage measurements indicated and a flashing green light on the EC you might consider the possibility the your EC leads are reversed, that the red one which should go to the domestic house batteries is connected to the chassis starter battery(
The only way to be absolutely sure the EC wires are connected correctly is to remove the inverter compartment wall (the one which contains the inspection panel) clip the retaining ties that holds the wire bundle with the EC leads so they can be tracked to their attachment. The red one should go to the battery boost terminal that goes to the domestic/house batteries. This is the one with one large cable on it. the other terminal has two large cables, one to the starter and the other to the chassis/start battery and should be the one to which the striped (re/yellow) lead is connected.
You describe a blinking green light which indicates
Jim M
'02 Intrigue @11410 ISL 400