Yahoo Message Number: 66794 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66794)
Happy Holidays to All, In a few short days, we're taking possession of our 2005 Allure from the dealership where we're trading our 08 Natl Sea Breeze. The Allure had several NHTSA recalls that are being corrected, and we're getting new tires. We have had Good Sam Extended Service which we've never used. We know the diesel is much more sophisticated and would like suggestions on a comprehensive extended service plan, or should we stick with GS? I'd like to gather as much intel before making the decision. Thanks much for any input.
Bob & Jan
05 Allure 40' w/tag
31282
Yahoo Message Number: 66798 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66798)
Congrats on your new rig!!!!
EW's are a choice item. Some won't be without them, some won't get them.
We bought our 04 Allure about 6 months ago, and went thru the full process. Decided for us, we'd just bank the money and add to it each year. Your best time to buy one from a dealer, is at the final tap dancing on the purchase of the RV, though most of the time if you shop around, you'll be able to match their prices with better coverage. (Your deal is done, so your leverage with the dealer to 'wrap up the sell', is gone...)
The play on words get turned around sometimes, but when we did our fact gathering, we determined we would only consider EW's that 'covered everything' that was not listed as 'not covered'. Read the list of what is excluded carefully, as they are all not the same. I also felt the best value came with the longest terms of time available, but they cost more too. With most, the time will be the factor, not the miles.
Here is a link to a recent Escapee's thread. One gent was with RV Shield, which was one of the EW's we had on our short list too.
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=88491 (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=88491)
Good luck with your new coach, and on your research, Smitty
04 Allure 31017 (40', High Cascade, Tag)
Yahoo Message Number: 66800 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66800)
You might look at the Country Coach International, Steve that is on the web site gives CCI members dealer pricing. I had a friend with a two year old Magna did not take it last year a spent $12,000 in repairs and that is much more then the it would have cost for the extended plan. I have had his for over four years.
Jerry O #60473
Yahoo Message Number: 66801 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66801)
I went with ACC Warranty Group as they will cover the radiator and Charge Air cooler. GS Ext. Service will not. Plus they provide roadside service, cover all the electronics. If you go with them now they will cover the coach until its 15 years old and with much more milage than GS. Plus in my case they were about $1000.00 cheaper over 4 years. If you will call them periodically they will tell you what their experience has been recently with other coaches of your vintage. They pretty much know all the former CC techs and prefer you use them. They warned me about the refer issues and the engine pulley on my Cummins long before the news made the net. They will even give 10 months to pay the premium without interest.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731.
Yahoo Message Number: 66837 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66837)
I looked at an '08 Allure the other day and it was pointed out to me that there were no stabilizing legs on the coach. Leveling was done through an HWH air leveling system.
Is this common on newer coaches?
And - how well does this system work? At first thought it seems that the coach would not be as stable without the legs.
Any comments?
Richard Owen '05 Inspire 51442
Yahoo Message Number: 66838 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66838)
Richard, it is common and I love my air leveling system.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 66839 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66839)
Richard...
I have HWH air-leveling on my ol' Magna and I love it! First, dump the air from the air-bags, causing the coach to "kneel"... Next, put out the slide, and then press the HWH "Level" button twice... Have a beer while the coach levels itself... no fuss, no muss, no bother...
My coach is plenty "stable"...
buck
k7wn, '99magna5653, Cat C10, Allison 4060HD
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Yahoo Message Number: 66843 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66843)
Richard
I have HWH air level and love it. I have had my coach for over 10 yrs and have only had trouble leveling 2 times, major unlevel campsite. We travel on back roads and see small town America.
Bo & Kathy Lee
2000 Magna #5896
Yahoo Message Number: 66847 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66847)
Richard I have had both kinds of leveling systems. With jacks you can only level by raising the low side or end of the coach. With Air you can lower the high side or end first then level or just hit auto level. Many times this helps with the entry not being too high. The stability is about the same.
Lowell Johnson
04 Intrigue #11725
Yahoo Message Number: 66849 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66849)
Thanks for all of the replies. You learn something new every day and obviously it's not something to be concerned about.
Richard Owen '05 Inspire 51442
Yahoo Message Number: 66850 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66850)
My 2003 Intrigue does it that way too.
Jack 11527
Richard Owen richardowen@...> wrote:
Yahoo Message Number: 66852 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66852)
Richard and to All. First let me say that after you have " legs " leveling and go to Air leveling , there is no comparison. Given the choice , we would take air leveling all the time . ( you can be level in a Wal-Mart without legs ) My only concern , on my current coach, an 09 Magna , is that when I dump the air, and then level, if the coach is on a real level site , the bags don't blow up enough , and I do get some rocking movement. In that case, I don't dump the air, and only level the coach and it is rock solid. I had an 06 Monaco Dynasty, and the little air compressor they provide does not provide enough air pressure to the bags, such that after about 3 days , I had to start the coach and build up the system air. The system on both coach's checks level every 1/2 hour and keeps it level , and the Dynasty air compressor could not keep up. My Magna has about a 1 HP air compressor and you can keep the coach level , as long as you have power to the compressor. When I am in a real level spot I don't dump the air initially.
I hope this helps you in the decision making
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66855 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66855)
Ron, Richard and all.
I agree with the opinions favoring air bag leveling but I will add one thing. This may also apply to jacks but I have never had jacks. If you can not level the coach side to side before extending the slides, don't extend them. Side to side unlevel torsions the frame and extending the slides makes it worse. Twisting the frame distorts the coach body somewhat and is a good way to crack a windshield. Ask me I have been there twice (slow learner). Front to back unlevel is ok if you can live with it but not side to side.
I am a firm believer in leveling the coach before extending the slides. At least you start on a level playing field. If for some reason extending the slides causes the coach to go off level side to side and it will not relevel, I leave the site. You know you are in trouble if you can't open the bay doors.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Yahoo Message Number: 66862 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66862)
The comment (below, by Ron Baran) is of note. According to Eric Olstrom (Premier Motorcoach, Tucson) dumping first is counter-productive . . . no harm, just works against you as the HWH system then tries to re-inflate first, then go through the leveling sequence.
Bottom line, forget dumping first and just proceed to level. Ron's soft rocking comment seems to bear that out.
Happy New Year All!
Lee
--
Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13
Yahoo Message Number: 66872 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66872)
The leveling issue has been around for a long time. Some folks like to dump and then level to keep the bottom step of the entry at a normal height. Others prefer to pump up the bags all the way and then level to keep the suspension as rigid as possible and prevent swaying. I use all three, depending on the situation, with just driving up, parking and start the leveling process from the travel mode my normal proceedure. Air pressure, tire profile, tire manufacturer, type of tire, ground profile, and type of ground all can influence stability while parked. One of my favorite parks in Colorado has gravel over red clay and over a weeks period I have to re-level daily as the ground is soft and the co-pilot and I don't like to hear the unit do so automatically. TWI 2004 Intriguie 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 66873 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66873)
Hi Lee,
I disagree with Eric Olstrom. Re-inflate to where? The HWH never has any idea of where you coach is heightwise. It only knows level vs non-level when in the leveling mode. (Air Button pushed twice). Wherever the starting point is the HWH controller will first dump air on the high side to see if it can turn the light off on the low side. If unsuccessful it will now try the same thing on the front or back if one of those lights is on.
If after that there are lights still on then it will now start to add air to the low side first if needed and then to the front/back If during the process a side light comes back on the HWH controller will stop adding air to the front/back and go back to the side light that came on. It will continue this process a number of times and eventually it will determine that trying to add air for a predetermined length of time leaves one or two lights on. It quits and issues the 'excessive slope' error. If it is successful in turning all lights off it stops and enters the sleep mode unless you hit the 'Off' Button. In the sleep mode it will wake up every 30 minutes and check for lights. If one or two have come on it will go through the same process all over again.
In the case of dumping all the air, the first action on the HWH of course will fail because all of the air has been dumped. It will now proceed with the adding air process until all lights are off (coach is level) or issue the 'excessive slope' warning if it can not level the coach.
CC has always started the leveling process from wherever the coach sits heightwise from where the ride height valves left it when you parked the coach. Some SOB coaches elected to dump first. Having always had CC coaches I am not sure whether that is a selectable option from HWH or how it was accomplished.
Eric is right in that there is no harm to dump first but HWH always dumps first trying to level and then adds air. The net result if you dump first is that only the bags necessary to level the coach will have air in them. Some folks prefer this method as it often will leave the coach level with the front step as close to the ground as possible. It can however increase the amount of time it takes to bring the coach back to ride height when the Travel Mode is selected.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Yahoo Message Number: 66875 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66875)
Tom,
How does one judge that the air bags are pumped up all the way?
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Yahoo Message Number: 66877 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66877)
Indeed.
All of this seem rather 'academic' to me. In the end you are level, whatever . . . X or Y inches above grade.
Those with a fixation to be as low as possible can play with the HWH.
I will do as Eric suggests. Push the level button, be done with it.
Lee
Yahoo Message Number: 66878 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66878)
Don I think we are saying the same thing. My comment was , that if the coach is in a level spot, if you dump the air ALL out , and then try and level , there will only be a minimum amount of air in the bags, and , therefore it will " Rock " a bit. You are correct , that HWH only know "Level" and not bag height. If you wanted to drop the coach a bit, say put the "dump " on for a while and shut it off before all the air is out of the bags, you would still get the coach to be solidly level, even on level ground. This may be a bit confusing, but Again, if you dump all the air on a level site , and then get the HWH to level, there will be some movement compared to "Legs".
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66879 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66879)
Ron,
I am really getting confused by all of this. If you are on a level site then whether you let all the air out or not will make no difference to the HWH controller. The site is level and that is that. Now the questions focuses on coach stability in the wind and when people are moving around in the coach. It just seems to me that if the frame is sitting on top of the suspension then that is as stabile as it is going to get. Raise the frame above the suspension and now the stability depends on the amount of air in the bags. I don't see how there can be much difference between a coach with the frame sitting on the suspension and jacks other than the pressure in the tires.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Yahoo Message Number: 66888 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66888)
That is the primary reason I dump my air before leveling... The coach is much more stable while resting on the suspension as opposed to leveling at ride heighth... There is the added advantage of having the lower Kwickee step only 6 inches above grade rather than having to make a "giant" step of over a foot to reach the lower step when leveled at ride heighth...
Sounds to me like Ron's leveling system may need some adjustment...
buck
k7wn, '99Magna5653, Cat C10, Allison 4060HD
========================================================
Yahoo Message Number: 66892 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66892)
We have discovered that leveling first, then dumping the air is faster and achieves a lower entry level.
Strangely, once the coach is level, dumping the air seems to maintain the achieved level status.
Dean
95 Magna 5280
Yahoo Message Number: 66919 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66919)
Don Again I get quite a bit of movement , if I dump the air first ( on an already level spot ) and then level. On my Dynasty , if if under the same situation, it would rest on the chassis. On this coach, it does not do that. It appears as though all the air is gone as the noise goes down to almost nothing ( I have even pushed the button twice , as it has a timer ). Same thing. So I only level without dumping on a level site. I don't know if HWH has various modes available , or not, but on my 09 that is what happens. I attributed the issue to CC not allowing all the air to dump, as my Monaco did as you expected
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66941 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66941)
Ron, Not sure if I am the Don as there are more than one and you trimmed out all of the post that you are replying to.
I am confused, If you dump the air first (Dump Button), the coach should be sitting on the frame. If the spot is already level why would you then level. The HWH can not further level a coach that is already level.
The coach sitting on the frame on a level site should provide the most stability inside the coach, Now with the air bags out of the picture the only movement is in the tires. If however you dump air and the coach is not level sitting on the frame (site not level) then things change. Now the HWH has to bring the coach to level by adding air to the appropriate bags. Now you have a portion of the coach no longer sitting on the frame being supported by air bags that may not have a lot of air in them. When the coach is being fully supported by the air bags the most stability will be gained when the air bags have the maximum pressure they can and still have a level coach. The lower the coach is while still level the more unstable it becomes until the entire coach is setting on the frame.
Why would you push the 'Dump' button twice and what timer are you referring to? On my coach the "dump' button dumps all the air out of all the bags leaving the coach sitting on the frame. That is what 'Dump" means.
This sentence really confuses me, 'So I only level without dumping on a level site.'How do you tell if a site is level? The only sure way I can think of is to dump all the air and if the coach is level sitting on the frame then the site also is level.
It is true that CC elected to not dump air when you place the HWH controller in the automatic leveling mode. This fact does not prevent you from dumping all air using the manual 'Dump' button. This is I believe what folks are talking about when the are saying dump air first.
The HWH controller will first attempt to dump enough air from the high sides/ends to level the coach. It stops dumping the air from these bags as soon as level is achieved. It may dump all the air from the high side/end bags but not all the air out of all the bags. I believe that is what you are hearing when you think the coach is dumping air. If the coach is still not level the controller will start to add more air to the low side/end bags in a preprogrammed sequence until either level is achieved or it issues an 'excessive slope' error.
I am sitting on a concrete pad that is dead level. When I pull onto the pad and set the HWH to level it immediately goes into sleep neither adding nor dumping air. My site on my land in NH has a pretty good down slope back to front. Here the HWH has to let all of the air out of the rear bags and then add some air to the front. The stability of the coach is better here than in NH.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Don Again I get quite a bit of movement , if I dump the air first ( on an already level spot ) and then level. On my Dynasty , if if under the same situation, it would rest on the chassis. On this coach, it does not do that It appears as though all the air is gone as the noise goes down to almost nothing ( I have even pushed the button twice , as it has a timer ). Same thing. So I only level without dumping on a level site. I don't know if HWH has various modes available , or not, but on my 09 that is what happens. I attributed the issue to CC not allowing all the air to dump, as my Monaco did as you expected
Yahoo Message Number: 66947 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66947)
Don Seager I wasn't going to respond but will. I understand how the system works. WHY it does not go down to the chassis, I do not know. I only know that on the Magna it does not go down to the chassis, and on the Dynasty , it did. With regard to pushing the button twice. I found that on the Dynasty, all the air did not dump with one push of the DUMP. These are electronic valves, on a timer. They do not stay open forever. Therefore , if it does not dump all the air after one PUSH , then , you have to push it a second time. To get a full dump on the Dynasty, I had to push the button twice. It seems as though, on the Magna , it does not dump ALL the air I don't know why. That is why I get some instability.
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 66949 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66949)
The reason you still get some wiggle is because there are rubber bumpers on the inside of the air bags. They are there to keep the bag from totally collapsing on itself and possibly putting a hole in the bag.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 66951 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66951)
Ron,
It is hardest on the air bags for them to be deflated as they fold and leave a tight radius on them. This is where they typically fail at or begin to crack at first. I wonder if they found a way to keep them from folding and decreasing their lifespan??? I've always heard it's best for the bag to keep them inflated because of this.
Kevin Burns
00 Affinity #5865
Yahoo Message Number: 66956 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66956)
My dump and raise buttons on the HWH are momentary switches, they must be held to function.
Tom
Trans-Specialists/Lifeline Batteries
01 Magna 5999
www.trans-specialists.net (http://www.trans-specialists.net)
Yahoo Message Number: 66961 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/66961)
Hi Tom,
That is correct for a 2001 coach. HWH introduced a new digital controller in the 2003/2004 time frame. With it the tripod mercury leveling sensor usually mounted centrally above the ceiling in one of the bays also disappeared. Another change to the function of the new digital controller is that the dump and raise buttons are a latch and no longer momentary.
The basic intent of the dump and raise buttons is to allow you to lower or raise the coach to clear obstacles where you only need a few inches to clear. The reason you have to hold your finger on the non-latch type button is that if you don't then the HWH controller will relinquish control of the air bags to the right height valves the minute you release your finger. This means that the coach may raise into or drop onto whatever you were trying to clear as you drive over/under it. Not a good thing. The coach should never be driven very far or more than 2 or 3 mph when being help out of ride height by the raise or dump button.
I have the newer digital controller in my 2004 Allure and when I press either the dump button or the raise button it latches in continuing to either raise/dump the coach all the way, unless I hit the stop button. Of course the minute I do the coach will go to ride height just like yours will if you release the button. Both methods have their pluses and minuses. I had a 2002 Allure with the older controller and I did find it difficult to drive while holding the raise button at the same time.
The easiest way to spot which controller your coach has it to look for a travel mode button on the controller panel. The older analog HWH controller panels do not have one.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
My dump and raise buttons on the HWH are momentary switches, they must be held to function.
Tom
Trans-Specialists/Lifeline Batteries 01 Magna 5999
www.trans-specialists.net (http://www.trans-specialists.net)
Yahoo Message Number: 67096 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67096)
Hi,
Enjoy!!! Just noticed you are one coach after us. Did the original buyer have an EW? If so you might be covered for a transfer fee. Our EW is for 7 years 70,0000 miles transferable. I would not be without one. We just had our PTO replaced. The insurance is Prizm 800 725 5045.
Marianne
05 Allure 31280
Yahoo Message Number: 67120 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67120)
Hi Marianne, This particular EW wasn't transferable so I purchased one through Xtraride. Perhaps we'll see you on the road!
Bob - Huntington Beach
05 Allure 31282