Country Coach Restoration, Repair & Parts Forums => Country Coach Archive => Topic started by: Bob Kumza on May 15, 2003, 08:09:10 pm
Title: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Bob Kumza on May 15, 2003, 08:09:10 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 4950 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4950)We have a new 40' 2003 Country Coach Intrigue with the optional 400 hp Cummins engine. We absolutely love the coach and the optional engine with 2 stage Jake brake is great going up and down the mountains. The quality of construction and amenities really make this a wonderful home for us.
Our previous motorhome was only 19 feet and we got used to camping in some fairly remote locations. The chassis to ground clearance was excellent and it could go just about anywhere.
Well since our transition to full time living in our new Country Coach, we have hit bottom 2 times, each time doing some expensive damage. The first time we hit a rock with the oil pan while exiting a campsite and poked a small hole in the fiberglass oil pan. The second time, we dragged a hydraulic line on the pavement while exiting from a fuel service center. The oil pan replacement cost us around $1200. All the repairs have been done and the coach is like new again - and I want to keep it that way! Now, I don't expect that we'll be able to go camping in the backwoods locations that we used to, but the engine mounting on our coach seems to be very low compared to some coaches. I emphasize "some", because since our unfortunate encounters with the ground, I've been looking at hundreds of other coaches as they drive by in the campground and service centers we have visited. I'd guess that nearly 50% have some engine component that hangs very low in the back. The ones with long rear overhangs are the worst of all. Fortunately our coach has a very short rear overhang. Many have very low oil pans, while others have low air intake pipes or other engine parts.
Now that we have the HWH Raise Latching Function (documented in message 4679) working the way it is supposed to, we've been able to raise and hold the coach when going over obstacles at slow speeds so that we have more than 14" of clearance in the rear. That has been a life saver in many instances. The campground we are in now has 3 very large speed bumps at the entry and each of them is at least 8" tall. Without the Raise Latch function, I would have surely hit bottom and done more damage.
So now with all that as background, I do have a question... I'm trying to figure out if there is some way to add a skid plate to the rear of my coach so if I accidently hit something, I won't be paying out another $1200 to have another oil pan replaced.
I'm thinking about bolting 4 vertical steel bars to the motorhome frame around the engine, and then bolting a 1/2 thick steel plate to the 4 bars that would cover the entire bottom of the engine extending all the way forward to the transmission. This would make the bottom of the coach "bullet proof" and reduce the rear clearance only about 3/4 of an inch.
What do you think of the idea? Do you have any suggestions? Can you share any details on specific experiences?
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Rheavn on May 15, 2003, 10:17:33 pm
An 8" speed bump shouldn't cause any problems. Sounds like you need to have the ride height checked.
Steve
Intrigue #10673
wrote:
Quote
We have a new 40' 2003 Country Coach Intrigue with the optional 400 > hp Cummins engine. We absolutely love the coach and the optional > engine with 2 stage Jake brake is great going up and down the > mountains. The quality of construction and amenities really make > this a wonderful home for us.
Our previous motorhome was only 19 feet and we got used to camping
in
Quote
some fairly remote locations. The chassis to ground clearance was > excellent and it could go just about anywhere.
Well since our transition to full time living in our new Country > Coach, we have hit bottom 2 times, each time doing some expensive > damage. The first time we hit a rock with the oil pan while exiting > a campsite and poked a small hole in the fiberglass oil pan. The > second time, we dragged a hydraulic line on the pavement while > exiting from a fuel service center. The oil pan replacement cost us > around $1200. All the repairs have been done and the coach is like > new again - and I want to keep it that way! >
Now, I don't expect that we'll be able to go camping in the
backwoods
Quote
locations that we used to, but the engine mounting on our coach
seems
Quote
to be very low compared to some coaches. I emphasize "some",
because
Quote
since our unfortunate encounters with the ground, I've been looking > at hundreds of other coaches as they drive by in the campground and > service centers we have visited. I'd guess that nearly 50% have
some
Quote
engine component that hangs very low in the back. The ones with
long
Quote
rear overhangs are the worst of all. Fortunately our coach has a > very short rear overhang. Many have very low oil pans, while others > have low air intake pipes or other engine parts.
Now that we have the HWH Raise Latching Function (documented in > message 4679) working the way it is supposed to, we've been able to > raise and hold the coach when going over obstacles at slow speeds so > that we have more than 14" of clearance in the rear. That has been
a
Quote
life saver in many instances. The campground we are in now has 3 > very large speed bumps at the entry and each of them is at least 8" > tall. Without the Raise Latch function, I would have surely hit > bottom and done more damage.
So now with all that as background, I do have a question... > I'm trying to figure out if there is some way to add a skid plate to > the rear of my coach so if I accidently hit something, I won't be > paying out another $1200 to have another oil pan replaced.
I'm thinking about bolting 4 vertical steel bars to the motorhome > frame around the engine, and then bolting a 1/2 thick steel plate to > the 4 bars that would cover the entire bottom of the engine
extending
Quote
all the way forward to the transmission. This would make the bottom > of the coach "bullet proof" and reduce the rear clearance only about > 3/4 of an inch.
What do you think of the idea? Do you have any suggestions? Can
you
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Gdbettig@aol Com on May 15, 2003, 10:36:58 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 4955 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4955)Cummings has a flatter low profile oil pan which you can buy. GBettig
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Bob Kumza on May 16, 2003, 09:40:24 am
An 8" speed bump shouldn't cause any problems. Sounds like you > need to have the ride height checked.
Steve
Intrigue #10673
Thanks for your comments Steve. The ride height was adjusted at the factory and then re-checked and tweeked slightly by the dealer again at 5000 miles. I plan to crawl under the coach and measure it myself and compare the results to the information in the Files section. There would be no way I could go over an 8" speed bump without hitting it unless I used the HWH Raise Latch Function. The 400 hp Cummins actually hangs about 2" lower than the bottom of the transmission, and that is with the low profile oil pan (which Country Coach has confirmed is already installed on my coach and all Country Coaches with the new 400 hp engine). The low profile oil pan has a long low appearance versus the standard pan that looks like a bottom of a 5 gallon bucket hanging from the bottom of the engine. I've seen both oil pans and I'm fairly sure that I've got the low profile one.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to recheck the ride height myself.
Quote
wrote:
> We have a new 40' 2003 Country Coach Intrigue with the optional
400
Quote
hp Cummins engine. We absolutely love the coach and the optional > > engine with 2 stage Jake brake is great going up and down the > > mountains. The quality of construction and amenities really make > > this a wonderful home for us. >
> Our previous motorhome was only 19 feet and we got used to
camping
Quote
in
> some fairly remote locations. The chassis to ground clearance
was
Quote
excellent and it could go just about anywhere. >
> Well since our transition to full time living in our new Country > > Coach, we have hit bottom 2 times, each time doing some expensive > > damage. The first time we hit a rock with the oil pan while
exiting
Quote
a campsite and poked a small hole in the fiberglass oil pan. The > > second time, we dragged a hydraulic line on the pavement while > > exiting from a fuel service center. The oil pan replacement cost
us
Quote
around $1200. All the repairs have been done and the coach is
like
Quote
new again - and I want to keep it that way! > >
> Now, I don't expect that we'll be able to go camping in the > backwoods
> locations that we used to, but the engine mounting on our coach > seems
> to be very low compared to some coaches. I emphasize "some", > because
> since our unfortunate encounters with the ground, I've been
looking
Quote
at hundreds of other coaches as they drive by in the campground
and
Quote
service centers we have visited. I'd guess that nearly 50% have > some
> engine component that hangs very low in the back. The ones with > long
> rear overhangs are the worst of all. Fortunately our coach has a > > very short rear overhang. Many have very low oil pans, while
others
Quote
have low air intake pipes or other engine parts. >
> Now that we have the HWH Raise Latching Function (documented in > > message 4679) working the way it is supposed to, we've been able
to
Quote
raise and hold the coach when going over obstacles at slow speeds
so
Quote
that we have more than 14" of clearance in the rear. That has
been
Quote
a
> life saver in many instances. The campground we are in now has 3 > > very large speed bumps at the entry and each of them is at least
8"
Quote
tall. Without the Raise Latch function, I would have surely hit > > bottom and done more damage. >
> So now with all that as background, I do have a question... >
> I'm trying to figure out if there is some way to add a skid plate
to
Quote
the rear of my coach so if I accidently hit something, I won't be > > paying out another $1200 to have another oil pan replaced. >
> I'm thinking about bolting 4 vertical steel bars to the motorhome > > frame around the engine, and then bolting a 1/2 thick steel plate
to
Quote
the 4 bars that would cover the entire bottom of the engine > extending
> all the way forward to the transmission. This would make the
bottom
Quote
of the coach "bullet proof" and reduce the rear clearance only
about
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Walt Rothermel_01 on May 16, 2003, 09:52:30 am
Yahoo Message Number: 4964 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4964)I,too had to replace the oil pan, but I got by for $868 and thought I had been overcharged. I had never heard of a composition pan until this happened. I'll be interested to see if anyone has come up with some sort of protection that won't hinder maintenance. By the way, my ride height is to spec's and the 12x22.5 tires give me alot of clearance, but it still happened when I pulled into an abonded truck stop to stop for lunch. I thought I could dodge all the potholes but one jumped up and bit me.
Walt Rothermel 03Allure30811
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Rheavn on May 16, 2003, 04:25:47 pm
If you could when you check ride height could you measure & report the clearance you have from the bottom of oil pan to ground at ride height. That 400 engine must hang much lower than the 350. Mine has 16 1/4 inches clearance at ride height and my chassis has the 11R low profile tires. Many other things would hit before the oil pan.
Thanks in advance Steve
Intrigue #10673
wrote:
Quote
>
Quote from: rheavn"[/quote
Quote
>] > rvrobert2003,
> An 8" speed bump shouldn't cause any problems. Sounds like you > > need to have the ride height checked. >
> Steve
> Intrigue #10673 > Thanks for your comments Steve. The ride height was adjusted at the > factory and then re-checked and tweeked slightly by the dealer again > at 5000 miles. I plan to crawl under the coach and measure it
myself
Quote
and compare the results to the information in the Files section. There would be no way I could go over an 8" speed bump without > hitting it unless I used the HWH Raise Latch Function. The 400 hp > Cummins actually hangs about 2" lower than the bottom of the > transmission, and that is with the low profile oil pan (which
Country
Quote
Coach has confirmed is already installed on my coach and all Country > Coaches with the new 400 hp engine). The low profile oil pan has a > long low appearance versus the standard pan that looks like a bottom > of a 5 gallon bucket hanging from the bottom of the engine. I've > seen both oil pans and I'm fairly sure that I've got the low profile > one.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to recheck the ride height > myself. >
> wrote:
> > We have a new 40' 2003 Country Coach Intrigue with the optional > 400
> > hp Cummins engine. We absolutely love the coach and the
optional
Quote
> engine with 2 stage Jake brake is great going up and down the > > > mountains. The quality of construction and amenities really
make
Quote
> this a wonderful home for us. > >
> > Our previous motorhome was only 19 feet and we got used to > camping > in
> > some fairly remote locations. The chassis to ground clearance > was
> > excellent and it could go just about anywhere. > >
> > Well since our transition to full time living in our new Country > > > Coach, we have hit bottom 2 times, each time doing some
expensive
Quote
> damage. The first time we hit a rock with the oil pan while > exiting
> > a campsite and poked a small hole in the fiberglass oil pan.
The
Quote
> second time, we dragged a hydraulic line on the pavement while > > > exiting from a fuel service center. The oil pan replacement
cost
Quote
us
> > around $1200. All the repairs have been done and the coach is > like
> > new again - and I want to keep it that way! > > >
> > Now, I don't expect that we'll be able to go camping in the > > backwoods
> > locations that we used to, but the engine mounting on our coach > > seems
> > to be very low compared to some coaches. I emphasize "some", > > because
> > since our unfortunate encounters with the ground, I've been > looking
> > at hundreds of other coaches as they drive by in the campground > and
> > service centers we have visited. I'd guess that nearly 50% have > > some
> > engine component that hangs very low in the back. The ones with > > long
> > rear overhangs are the worst of all. Fortunately our coach has
a
Quote
> very short rear overhang. Many have very low oil pans, while > others
> > have low air intake pipes or other engine parts. > >
> > Now that we have the HWH Raise Latching Function (documented in > > > message 4679) working the way it is supposed to, we've been able > to
> > raise and hold the coach when going over obstacles at slow
speeds
Quote
so
> > that we have more than 14" of clearance in the rear. That has > been > a
> > life saver in many instances. The campground we are in now has
3
Quote
> very large speed bumps at the entry and each of them is at least > 8"
> > tall. Without the Raise Latch function, I would have surely hit > > > bottom and done more damage. > >
> > So now with all that as background, I do have a question... > >
> > I'm trying to figure out if there is some way to add a skid
plate
Quote
to
> > the rear of my coach so if I accidently hit something, I won't
be
Quote
> paying out another $1200 to have another oil pan replaced. > >
> > I'm thinking about bolting 4 vertical steel bars to the
motorhome
Quote
> frame around the engine, and then bolting a 1/2 thick steel
plate
Quote
to
> > the 4 bars that would cover the entire bottom of the engine > > extending
> > all the way forward to the transmission. This would make the > bottom
> > of the coach "bullet proof" and reduce the rear clearance only > about
> > 3/4 of an inch. > >
> > What do you think of the idea? Do you have any suggestions?
Can
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Geneclend@aol Com on May 17, 2003, 02:03:38 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 4979 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4979)You might want to reconsider where you are taking a 40 foot coach. These units are not suited for backwoods camping or most state or national parks. They are built for use on pavement and will sink like a rock if driven on surfaces that are not firmly packed. It is true the new coaches have their engines lower in the chassis, but I think a skid plate would potentially give a driver a false sense of security that could ultimately result damage to another component.
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Walt Rothermel_01 on May 18, 2003, 02:08:39 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 4989 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/4989)All of us have been into truck stops with potholes, and no matter how skillful a driver you are (and I consider myself pretty good after six coaches including three 40
footers ) you can drop into one of these holes. When the result is $868 for a new pan, I'm looking for some type of protection.
Walt Rothermel 03Allure30811
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Bob Kumza on July 25, 2003, 01:01:02 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5514 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5514)Country Coach is now installing engine skid plates at the factory on all new coaches with the ISL 400 engine according to the engineers at the factory. We had ours shipped to us and installed last week on our 2003 Intrigue. At the same time, the mechanic re-checked and adjusted the ride height. According to Country Coach the distance between the air bag plates on our coach should be 12 inches. The mechanic showed me the actual measurement after the adjustment was made, so I know it is now correct. Based on this adjustment to the ride height, we now have a total of 7 1/4 inches clearance from the bottom of the skid plate to the ground - a far cry short of Steve's 16 1/4 inches. The skid plate reduces the clearance from the pan to the ground by about 1/2 an inch, so that without the skid plate, we would have about 7 3/4 inch clearance from the ground to the engine oil pan. So the skid plate reduces the engine oil pan clearance only slightly.
So, in answer to your question Steve, we could not clear an 8" speed bump without raising the coach with the HWH raise function. By using the HWH raise function, we add 3 1/2 inches of additional clearance. Thus, with the coach raised to the max, we have 10 3/4 inches of engine clearance.
Just one more comment on the ride height adjustment... If we drop our coach as low as possible and measure the height, then raise it as high as possible and measure the height, the difference is 7 1/2 inches - exactly the factory spec. According to the Dynomax design engineers, when the coach is at ride height, it should be sitting in the middle of these two extremes. We checked this on our coach and this verifies that the ride height is now correct. We have 3 3/4 inches of possible suspension movement each way. So, using these measurements, if we hit a bump that causes the rear suspension to compress, our rear skid plate clearance drops from 7 1/4 inches to 3 1/2 inches - just barely enough to clear the crown in the road surface.
In the spirit of this sharing community, I'd suggest that all owners of the ISL 400 engine take precautionary measures to "protect their rear ends" - have the skid plate installed and have your ride height checked and adjusted if necessary. Not doing so could result in a very expensive repair bill.
Regards,
Robert
Quote from: rheavn
rvrobert2003,
If you could when you check ride height could you measure &
report
Quote
the clearance you have from the bottom of oil pan to ground at ride > height. That 400 engine must hang much lower than the 350. Mine
has
Quote
16 1/4 inches clearance at ride height and my chassis has the 11R
low
Quote
profile tires. Many other things would hit before the oil pan.
Thanks in advance Steve
Intrigue #10673
wrote: >
[quote author=rheavn"
>] > > rvrobert2003,
> > An 8" speed bump shouldn't cause any problems. Sounds like
you
Quote
> need to have the ride height checked. > >
> > Steve
> > Intrigue #10673 >
> Thanks for your comments Steve. The ride height was adjusted at
the
Quote
factory and then re-checked and tweeked slightly by the dealer
again
Quote
at 5000 miles. I plan to crawl under the coach and measure it > myself
> and compare the results to the information in the Files section. > There would be no way I could go over an 8" speed bump without > > hitting it unless I used the HWH Raise Latch Function. The 400
hp
Quote
Cummins actually hangs about 2" lower than the bottom of the > > transmission, and that is with the low profile oil pan (which > Country
> Coach has confirmed is already installed on my coach and all
Country
Quote
Coaches with the new 400 hp engine). The low profile oil pan has
a
Quote
long low appearance versus the standard pan that looks like a
bottom
Quote
of a 5 gallon bucket hanging from the bottom of the engine. I've > > seen both oil pans and I'm fairly sure that I've got the low
profile
Quote
one. >
> Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to recheck the ride height > > myself. > >
> > wrote:
> > > We have a new 40' 2003 Country Coach Intrigue with the
optional
Quote
400
> > > hp Cummins engine. We absolutely love the coach and the > optional
> > > engine with 2 stage Jake brake is great going up and down the > > > > mountains. The quality of construction and amenities really > make
> > > this a wonderful home for us. > > >
> > > Our previous motorhome was only 19 feet and we got used to > > camping > > in
> > > some fairly remote locations. The chassis to ground
clearance
Quote
was
> > > excellent and it could go just about anywhere. > > >
> > > Well since our transition to full time living in our new
Country
Quote
> > Coach, we have hit bottom 2 times, each time doing some > expensive
> > > damage. The first time we hit a rock with the oil pan while > > exiting
> > > a campsite and poked a small hole in the fiberglass oil pan. The
> > > second time, we dragged a hydraulic line on the pavement
while
Quote
> > exiting from a fuel service center. The oil pan replacement > cost > us
> > > around $1200. All the repairs have been done and the coach
is
Quote
like
> > > new again - and I want to keep it that way! > > > >
> > > Now, I don't expect that we'll be able to go camping in the > > > backwoods
> > > locations that we used to, but the engine mounting on our
coach
Quote
> seems
> > > to be very low compared to some coaches. I emphasize "some", > > > because
> > > since our unfortunate encounters with the ground, I've been > > looking
> > > at hundreds of other coaches as they drive by in the
campground
Quote
and
> > > service centers we have visited. I'd guess that nearly 50%
have
Quote
> some
> > > engine component that hangs very low in the back. The ones
with
Quote
> long
> > > rear overhangs are the worst of all. Fortunately our coach
has
Quote
a
> > > very short rear overhang. Many have very low oil pans, while > > others
> > > have low air intake pipes or other engine parts. > > >
> > > Now that we have the HWH Raise Latching Function (documented
in
Quote
> > message 4679) working the way it is supposed to, we've been
able
Quote
to
> > > raise and hold the coach when going over obstacles at slow > speeds > so
> > > that we have more than 14" of clearance in the rear. That
has
Quote
been > > a
> > > life saver in many instances. The campground we are in now
has
Quote
3
> > > very large speed bumps at the entry and each of them is at
least
Quote
8"
> > > tall. Without the Raise Latch function, I would have surely
hit
Quote
> > bottom and done more damage. > > >
> > > So now with all that as background, I do have a question... > > >
> > > I'm trying to figure out if there is some way to add a skid > plate > to
> > > the rear of my coach so if I accidently hit something, I
won't
Quote
be
> > > paying out another $1200 to have another oil pan replaced. > > >
> > > I'm thinking about bolting 4 vertical steel bars to the > motorhome
> > > frame around the engine, and then bolting a 1/2 thick steel > plate > to
> > > the 4 bars that would cover the entire bottom of the engine > > > extending
> > > all the way forward to the transmission. This would make the > > bottom
> > > of the coach "bullet proof" and reduce the rear clearance
only
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Rheavn on July 25, 2003, 01:40:34 pm
Thanks for the info. I still am able to learn something everyday. Since I replied I took a factory tour and the new engines, both Cummins & Cat, are much lower in profile on the oil pan or bottom side. While clearance is not an issue on my coach, it definitely is a concern on the newer coaches. This is an example of an engineering item that CC should have caught and should notify every qualifying coach owner of the possible damage due to lack of ground clearance.
JMHO Steve Intrigue #10673
PS The more I read about the newer coaches the more I like mine
Quote from: rvrobert2003
> Country Coach is now installing engine skid plates at the factory on > all new coaches with the ISL 400 engine according to the engineers
at
Quote
the factory. We had ours shipped to us and installed last week on > our 2003 Intrigue. At the same time, the mechanic re-checked and > adjusted the ride height. According to Country Coach the distance > between the air bag plates on our coach should be 12 inches. The > mechanic showed me the actual measurement after the adjustment was > made, so I know it is now correct. Based on this adjustment to the > ride height, we now have a total of 7 1/4 inches clearance from the > bottom of the skid plate to the ground - a far cry short of Steve's > 16 1/4 inches. The skid plate reduces the clearance from the pan to > the ground by about 1/2 an inch, so that without the skid plate, we > would have about 7 3/4 inch clearance from the ground to the engine > oil pan. So the skid plate reduces the engine oil pan clearance
only
Quote
slightly. > So, in answer to your question Steve, we could not clear an 8" speed > bump without raising the coach with the HWH raise function. By
using
Quote
the HWH raise function, we add 3 1/2 inches of additional clearance.
Thus, with the coach raised to the max, we have 10 3/4 inches of > engine clearance.
Just one more comment on the ride height adjustment... > If we drop our coach as low as possible and measure the height, then > raise it as high as possible and measure the height, the difference > is 7 1/2 inches - exactly the factory spec. According to the
Dynomax
Quote
design engineers, when the coach is at ride height, it should be > sitting in the middle of these two extremes. We checked this on our > coach and this verifies that the ride height is now correct. We
have
Quote
3 3/4 inches of possible suspension movement each way. So, using > these measurements, if we hit a bump that causes the rear suspension > to compress, our rear skid plate clearance drops from 7 1/4 inches
to
Quote
3 1/2 inches - just barely enough to clear the crown in the road > surface. > In the spirit of this sharing community, I'd suggest that all owners > of the ISL 400 engine take precautionary measures to "protect their > rear ends" - have the skid plate installed and have your ride height > checked and adjusted if necessary. Not doing so could result in a > very expensive repair bill.
Regards,
Robert
Quote from: rheavn"[/quote
Quote
>] > rvrobert2003,
> If you could when you check ride height could you measure & > report
> the clearance you have from the bottom of oil pan to ground at
ride
Quote
height. That 400 engine must hang much lower than the 350. Mine > has
> 16 1/4 inches clearance at ride height and my chassis has the 11R > low
> profile tires. Many other things would hit before the oil pan. >
> Thanks in advance > Steve
> Intrigue #10673 >
> wrote: > >
[quote author=rheavn" > > >] > > > rvrobert2003,
> > > An 8" speed bump shouldn't cause any problems. Sounds like > you
> > > need to have the ride height checked. > > >
> > > Steve
> > > Intrigue #10673 > >
> > Thanks for your comments Steve. The ride height was adjusted at > the
> > factory and then re-checked and tweeked slightly by the dealer > again
> > at 5000 miles. I plan to crawl under the coach and measure it > > myself
> > and compare the results to the information in the Files section. > > > There would be no way I could go over an 8" speed bump without > > > hitting it unless I used the HWH Raise Latch Function. The 400 > hp
> > Cummins actually hangs about 2" lower than the bottom of the > > > transmission, and that is with the low profile oil pan (which > > Country
> > Coach has confirmed is already installed on my coach and all > Country
> > Coaches with the new 400 hp engine). The low profile oil pan
has
Quote
a
> > long low appearance versus the standard pan that looks like a > bottom
> > of a 5 gallon bucket hanging from the bottom of the engine.
I've
Quote
> seen both oil pans and I'm fairly sure that I've got the low > profile > > one. > >
> > Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to recheck the ride height > > > myself. > > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > We have a new 40' 2003 Country Coach Intrigue with the > optional > > 400
> > > > hp Cummins engine. We absolutely love the coach and the > > optional
> > > > engine with 2 stage Jake brake is great going up and down
the
Quote
> > > mountains. The quality of construction and amenities really > > make
> > > > this a wonderful home for us. > > > >
> > > > Our previous motorhome was only 19 feet and we got used to > > > camping > > > in
> > > > some fairly remote locations. The chassis to ground > clearance > > was
> > > > excellent and it could go just about anywhere. > > > >
> > > > Well since our transition to full time living in our new > Country
> > > > Coach, we have hit bottom 2 times, each time doing some > > expensive
> > > > damage. The first time we hit a rock with the oil pan while > > > exiting
> > > > a campsite and poked a small hole in the fiberglass oil pan.
> The
> > > > second time, we dragged a hydraulic line on the pavement > while
> > > > exiting from a fuel service center. The oil pan replacement > > cost > > us
> > > > around $1200. All the repairs have been done and the coach > is
> > like
> > > > new again - and I want to keep it that way! > > > > >
> > > > Now, I don't expect that we'll be able to go camping in the > > > > backwoods
> > > > locations that we used to, but the engine mounting on our > coach
> > > seems
> > > > to be very low compared to some coaches. I emphasize
"some",
Quote
> > because
> > > > since our unfortunate encounters with the ground, I've been > > > looking
> > > > at hundreds of other coaches as they drive by in the > campground > > and
> > > > service centers we have visited. I'd guess that nearly 50% > have
> > > some
> > > > engine component that hangs very low in the back. The ones > with
> > > long
> > > > rear overhangs are the worst of all. Fortunately our coach > has > a
> > > > very short rear overhang. Many have very low oil pans,
while
Quote
> others
> > > > have low air intake pipes or other engine parts. > > > >
> > > > Now that we have the HWH Raise Latching Function (documented > in
> > > > message 4679) working the way it is supposed to, we've been > able > > to
> > > > raise and hold the coach when going over obstacles at slow > > speeds > > so
> > > > that we have more than 14" of clearance in the rear. That > has
> > been > > > a
> > > > life saver in many instances. The campground we are in now > has > 3
> > > > very large speed bumps at the entry and each of them is at > least > > 8"
> > > > tall. Without the Raise Latch function, I would have surely > hit
> > > > bottom and done more damage. > > > >
> > > > So now with all that as background, I do have a question... > > > >
> > > > I'm trying to figure out if there is some way to add a skid > > plate > > to
> > > > the rear of my coach so if I accidently hit something, I > won't > be
> > > > paying out another $1200 to have another oil pan replaced. > > > >
> > > > I'm thinking about bolting 4 vertical steel bars to the > > motorhome
> > > > frame around the engine, and then bolting a 1/2 thick steel > > plate > > to
> > > > the 4 bars that would cover the entire bottom of the engine > > > > extending
> > > > all the way forward to the transmission. This would make
the
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Thomas Sims on July 25, 2003, 02:42:24 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5518 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5518)Is this also a problem with the Cummins ISL 370 HP engine?
Tom
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Bob Kumza on July 25, 2003, 04:34:36 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5519 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5519)Tom, the block and pan on the ISL 370 are the same as the ISL 400. As it was explained to me by the Cummins mechanic who worked on my coach, the only difference is the HP rating. Thus, I would expect that the clearance level on a coach would be the same regardless if the coach had the ISL 370 or ISL 400 engine.
One more tidbit...
Cummins makes 2 different pan sytles for the ISL - Standard and Low Profile. Country Coach is using the Low Profile pan in all their applications and I have verified that my coach in fact does have the Low Profile pan with my local Cummins dealer.
Robert
Quote from: Thomas Sims
Is this also a problem with the Cummins ISL 370 HP engine? > Tom
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Walt Rothermel_01 on July 26, 2003, 11:37:34 am
Yahoo Message Number: 5534 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5534)Robert, did CC charge you for the skid plate and installation? I've already spent over $800 on a pan replacement.
Walt Rothermel 03Allure30811
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Ron & Molly Bodee on July 26, 2003, 12:04:27 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5535 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5535)Robert, what was your cost of the Engine Sked which I assume you acquired from Junctin City, and the cost of installation???? I have an ISL 370 and paid about $600 for a new oil pan, even though they only cost a little over $100. Will this fit on an ISL 370??
Ron and Molly, '01 Intrigue # 11262, San Diego
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Dick Campagna on July 26, 2003, 09:09:42 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5544 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5544)I'm coming in late on this subject, but I just happened to think of something in regards to the subject problem. Someone mentioned "8-inch" high speed bumps. If anyone damages their vehicle on obstructions that high, I'm sure you have recourse against whoever (municipality included) placed 'em. Heck, our Subaru Forester has more-than-normal ground clearance, and I think it's only 7.5"!! Years ago, a nearby municipality raised manhole covers in preparation for a repaving job, and I ripped the exhaust system off the car I was driving at the time when I drove over the cover. I submitted a claim ... and was reimbursed for a new exhaust system, minus depreciation, of course . When negotiating any speed bumps, I'll be sure to raise my Intrigue's rear end, though, rather than take a chance on damage.
Dick (& Geri) Campagna Intrigue #10571
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Bob Kumza on July 27, 2003, 02:50:43 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5554 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5554)More info on the skid plate and answers to questions from Walt and Ron & Molly...
My coach is a new 2003 and is still well within the warranty period. CC supplied the skid plate at no charge and picked up the cost for the dealer to do the installation. So the cost to me for this was zero. Total installation time was under 2 hours.
A Cummins mechanic explained to me that the ISL 370 and ISL 400 use the same block and pan and have the same profile. The only difference is the 400 has more horsepower. So, I would expect that the skid plate would fit both engines. CC could certainly provide more information to you regarding the fit of the skid plate to the ISL 370 engine.
The first time I bottomed out my engine pan, the total bill for the damage repair at Cummins was $1200. So those of you that got off for less got a bargain. The second time I hit bottom I damaged the hydraulic hose that goes across the back and the cost for that repair was substantially less. I would hope that the skid plate eliminates future repair bills for bottoming the back end of my coach.
The skid plate supplied by CC came in 3 pieces - 2 T shaped support brackets and the skid plate. The installation is a bolt-on only and does not require any welding. The T shaped brackets are first mounted to the transmission/engine support located on the frame rail on each side on the transmission/engine and about mid-way between the engine and transmission. The mechanic removed the 2 nuts from the bottom of the transmission support bracket, then used the same 2 nuts to mount each of the T shaped brackets. The bottom of each T bracket extends to just below the front edge of the oil pan and has a hole in it. The skid plate then is bolted into place with 4 bolts that are supplied with the bracket - 2 bolts into the bottom of the T supports and 2 bolts into the existing holes in the bottom of the rear engine support posts. I do have a picture of the skid plate and brackets that I'll post to the Photos section.
The plate is not very heavy and is made of material that appears to be about 1/8 inch steel plate. CC told me that they tested the skid plate by driving a coach over several low driveways and bumps and the plate provides the needed protection. I'll probably use the basic design as a starting point and have a heavier and thicker plate welded and installed at a future date. For now, I'll see how it works and how well it protects my rear end.
I hope all this information is helpful to you.
Regards,
Robert
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Walt Rothermel_01 on July 27, 2003, 08:01:57 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5558 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5558)Thanks, Robert, for the info. My coach is out of the bumper to bumper warranty, but the chassis warranty is still in effect. I would expect the skid plate would be covered under that warranty, but will check with CC.
Walt Rothermel 03Allure30811
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Ree on July 28, 2003, 12:12:05 am
Yahoo Message Number: 5564 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5564)I will go to service tomorrow and see if I can get this done while I am here this time. The hydraulic hose that goes across the back that Robert mentioned was replaced where I was here two weeks ago. I have 4 days until my warranty it up!
Ree
Full-timin' in a 2003 Allure #30852
Currently back in JC
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Vigolo on July 28, 2003, 12:20:33 am
Yahoo Message Number: 5566 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5566)What about the ISC 350 on the 2002 Intrigue? Anybody had problems wiping out the pan or had a skid plate installed ?? George
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Walt Rothermel_02 on July 29, 2003, 11:19:10 am
Yahoo Message Number: 5603 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5603)Robert, I'm being advised by CC that they will not pay for adding a skid plate to my 03 Allure. This is coming from Doug Beaudry according to " Russ " a tech I've not talked to before. Do you mind if I cite your experience where they did pay for the skid plate? If it's OK pls provide your coach no.
Thanks,
Walt Rothermel 03Allure30811
Quote from: rvrobert2003
> More info on the skid plate and answers to questions from Walt and > Ron & Molly...
My coach is a new 2003 and is still well within the warranty
period.
Quote
CC supplied the skid plate at no charge and picked up the cost for > the dealer to do the installation. So the cost to me for this was > zero. Total installation time was under 2 hours. > A Cummins mechanic explained to me that the ISL 370 and ISL 400 use > the same block and pan and have the same profile. The only > difference is the 400 has more horsepower. So, I would expect that > the skid plate would fit both engines. CC could certainly provide > more information to you regarding the fit of the skid plate to the > ISL 370 engine. > The first time I bottomed out my engine pan, the total bill for the > damage repair at Cummins was $1200. So those of you that got off
for
Quote
less got a bargain. The second time I hit bottom I damaged the > hydraulic hose that goes across the back and the cost for that
repair
Quote
was substantially less. I would hope that the skid plate
eliminates
Quote
future repair bills for bottoming the back end of my coach. > The skid plate supplied by CC came in 3 pieces - 2 T shaped support > brackets and the skid plate. The installation is a bolt-on only
and
Quote
does not require any welding. The T shaped brackets are first > mounted to the transmission/engine support located on the frame
rail
Quote
on each side on the transmission/engine and about mid-way between
the
Quote
engine and transmission. The mechanic removed the 2 nuts from the > bottom of the transmission support bracket, then used the same 2
nuts
Quote
to mount each of the T shaped brackets. The bottom of each T
bracket
Quote
extends to just below the front edge of the oil pan and has a hole
in
Quote
it. The skid plate then is bolted into place with 4 bolts that are > supplied with the bracket - 2 bolts into the bottom of the T
supports
Quote
and 2 bolts into the existing holes in the bottom of the rear
engine
Quote
support posts. I do have a picture of the skid plate and brackets > that I'll post to the Photos section. > The plate is not very heavy and is made of material that appears to > be about 1/8 inch steel plate. CC told me that they tested the
skid
Quote
plate by driving a coach over several low driveways and bumps and
the
Quote
plate provides the needed protection. I'll probably use the basic > design as a starting point and have a heavier and thicker plate > welded and installed at a future date. For now, I'll see how it > works and how well it protects my rear end.
I hope all this information is helpful to you.
Regards,
Robert
Quote from: Spiker1029@a...
> Robert, did CC charge you for the skid plate and installation?
I've
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Bill Harris on July 29, 2003, 12:53:34 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5605 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5605)Walt and Robert, I also talked with Russ at CC yesterday. He explained that on the Allures with the rear slide, they had to lower the engine so the hump in the bedroom was not too high. He said that CC has NO policy wherein they will pay to add the skid plate.
Guess you have to trash your coach, or crack the pan and end up broken down somewhere before you get help. Not the answer I hoped to hear, since they made the desision to place the engine in harms way.
Bill Harris
03 Allure 1st Ave 30912
Quote from: spiker1029
Robert, I'm being advised by CC that they will not pay for adding
a
Quote
skid plate to my 03 Allure. This is coming from Doug Beaudry > according to " Russ " a tech I've not talked to before. Do you
mind
Quote
if I cite your experience where they did pay for the skid plate?
If
Quote
it's OK pls provide your coach no.
Thanks,
Walt Rothermel 03Allure30811
[quote author=rvrobert2003"
> More info on the skid plate and answers to questions from Walt
and
Quote
Ron & Molly... >
> My coach is a new 2003 and is still well within the warranty > period.
> CC supplied the skid plate at no charge and picked up the cost
for
Quote
the dealer to do the installation. So the cost to me for this
was
Quote
zero. Total installation time was under 2 hours. >
> A Cummins mechanic explained to me that the ISL 370 and ISL 400
use
Quote
the same block and pan and have the same profile. The only > > difference is the 400 has more horsepower. So, I would expect
that
Quote
the skid plate would fit both engines. CC could certainly
provide
Quote
more information to you regarding the fit of the skid plate to
the
Quote
ISL 370 engine. >
> The first time I bottomed out my engine pan, the total bill for
the
Quote
damage repair at Cummins was $1200. So those of you that got
off
Quote
for
> less got a bargain. The second time I hit bottom I damaged the > > hydraulic hose that goes across the back and the cost for that > repair
> was substantially less. I would hope that the skid plate > eliminates
> future repair bills for bottoming the back end of my coach. >
> The skid plate supplied by CC came in 3 pieces - 2 T shaped
support
Quote
brackets and the skid plate. The installation is a bolt-on only > and
> does not require any welding. The T shaped brackets are first > > mounted to the transmission/engine support located on the frame > rail
> on each side on the transmission/engine and about mid-way
between
Quote
the
> engine and transmission. The mechanic removed the 2 nuts from
the
Quote
bottom of the transmission support bracket, then used the same 2 > nuts
> to mount each of the T shaped brackets. The bottom of each T > bracket
> extends to just below the front edge of the oil pan and has a
hole
Quote
in
> it. The skid plate then is bolted into place with 4 bolts that
are
Quote
supplied with the bracket - 2 bolts into the bottom of the T > supports
> and 2 bolts into the existing holes in the bottom of the rear > engine
> support posts. I do have a picture of the skid plate and
brackets
Quote
that I'll post to the Photos section. >
> The plate is not very heavy and is made of material that appears
to
Quote
be about 1/8 inch steel plate. CC told me that they tested the > skid
> plate by driving a coach over several low driveways and bumps
and
Quote
the
> plate provides the needed protection. I'll probably use the
basic
Quote
design as a starting point and have a heavier and thicker plate > > welded and installed at a future date. For now, I'll see how it > > works and how well it protects my rear end. >
> I hope all this information is helpful to you. >
> Regards, >
> Robert > > > > >
> -
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Gdbettig@aol Com on July 29, 2003, 10:28:24 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5611 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5611)Is that only coaches with the tag. I have a 2002 Intrigue with a 400 HP single rear axel and it does not seem to sit low. GB
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Thomas Sims on July 30, 2003, 11:41:01 am
Yahoo Message Number: 5615 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5615)Hi Walt
Interestingly enough, I also called CC yesterday and also spoke with "Russ". Russ told me he was not aware of the skip plate situation and that he "had to go thru the proper channels to see what could/should be done." This is important stuff. I'd love to suggest we all stick together on this and en mass approach CC with what we all feel is right. CC continues in the old tradition (granted, after a few bumps) to work very well with us personally on getting the coach we paid for, and I do believe, especially if we work and keep together, they will do likewise on this skid plate situation.
Tom Sims
Intrigue #11419
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Doug Rosenberg on July 31, 2003, 02:12:05 am
Yahoo Message Number: 5624 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5624)Just picked up our 03 Allure today after a multi-week stay at the factory. I discussed the need for pan protection with Mike Scott, who felt that any damage would most likely be the result of lower than normal couch height or an abnormal obstruction and carelessness. He did mention that later model engines have a shallower pan profile and better clearance. I did not learn whether that applies to mine. Plan to discuss it with Cummins in coming months.
If anyone can answer the question of when pan profiles changed, i.e. which units are most susceptible to damage, it would be helpful. My experience with the factory has been very satisfactory one I got the dealer out of the way. If a general design flaw is the problem, I think CC will work with us to solve it. Tom's suggestion to stick together until it is sorted out is right on.
More about the re-design of our faulty Hurricane system later.
Doug Rosenberg Allure 30929
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Ree on August 02, 2003, 10:23:50 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 5676 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/5676)I talked to "Kevin" earlier in the week, then he called me back today. Said that CC will not pay for the skid plate. Cost for the plate and installation will be somewhere around $800 and take nearly 2 weeks to get it here.
Ree--back in JC :(
Allure 30852
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Dick Campagna on August 02, 2003, 10:43:18 pm
I talked to "Kevin" earlier in the week, then he called me back today.
Said
Quote
that CC will not pay for the skid plate. Cost for the plate and > installation will be somewhere around $800 and take nearly 2 weeks to get
it
Quote
here.
When this discussion started, someone said that there was possibility of damage when crossing 8" high speed bumps (which I think are not typical). The following 2001 SUV's have less than 8" minimum ground clearance, according to an *Automobile* magazine 4x4 buying guide:
Audi Allroad Quattro, BMW X5, Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet Suburban, Chevrolet Tracker, Ford Escape, Ford Expedition, Ford Explorer Sport, GMC Jimmy/Envoy, GMC Yukon XL/XL Denali, KIA Sportage, Lexus RX300, Mercedes ML55AMG, Nissan Xterra, Oldsmobile Bravada, Pontiac Aztek, Subaru Forester, Subaru Impreza Outback Sport, Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon, Suzuki Grand Vitara, Suzuki Vitara, Toyota RAV4. Although the examples are a few years old, I suspect that a more recent list would reflect the same trend. In summary, if SUV's can't safely negotiate an 8" speed bump without potential damage, should we expect our motorhomes to do the same?
Dick (& Geri) Campagna Intrigue #10571
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Ree on September 01, 2003, 10:10:42 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 6067 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6067)This is an old subject, but thought I would give an update. I had the skid-plate installed at the factory. The charge was $263.98. It has probably already paid for itself. A few days ago I was coming out of a small truck stop and there was a steep hill before getting back on a road. The road had a bunch of bad spots where others had hit bottom. There was no other way out, and on the steep incline, it would have been extremely difficult to unhook the car and back up. I turned to hit the area at an angle so only scrapped it a little. I was sure glad to have the protection under there!
There were a couple of people at the factory when I was there that have had to have the pan replaced because of damage.
Ree
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: David & Karen on September 01, 2003, 11:35:21 pm
This skid plate problem seems to be an issue with only the 370/400 ISL engines. Am I correct in this thinking? Is it only an issue with the 40 foot units or are the thirty-six foot units also effected?
David & Karen CA. 2000 Intrigue 11062 40 ft Single slide. PT 2002 Odyssey TOAD
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Tom And Sherry Royer on September 02, 2003, 04:05:40 pm
skid-plate installed at the factory. The charge was $263.98.
Ree
Ree
You mentioned in a previous post that "Kevin" said that the skid plate would cost around $800 and take two weeks. If the cost is really $263.98, I will have it installed while I am at Camp Country Coach in Oct.
Do they have the parts in stock? Did you have it scheduled before you went to CC for factory work?
Thanks
Tom Royer
2003 Allure 30858
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Ree on September 02, 2003, 10:12:20 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 6077 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6077)I was pleasantly surprised at the change in cost. During the conversation I mentioned that someone on this list had it installed in 2 hours. I think they were planning a lot more time than that. Also, they had not done it before--so they said--so maybe they really did not know what was involved. You will need to order it ahead of time. I considered it a bargain!
Ree
2003 Allure 30852
Title: Re: Skid plate to prevent engine damage
Post by: Ree on September 02, 2003, 10:12:28 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 6078 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6078)My rig is a 370-ISL