Yahoo Message Number: 68428 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68428)
We are staying in a park in Arizona for six months. Always thought that we were supposed to start our motor every few weeks and let it run for awhile. Then I read a few weeks ago that idling causes problems. Not sure whether we should start it up now and then and let it run for a few minutes...or not. Sure don't want to cause harm. All opinions welcome! Thanks in advance.
Sue 51672
2006 Inspire 360
Yahoo Message Number: 68429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68429)
Diesel's like to work, not loaf. Idling is bad for a diesel. Will cause the rings to carbon up and reduce engine performance. Can cause injectors to carbon and plug. Also get some raw diesel blow-by the rings into the oil. Best for diesel is to warm up 10 minutes and then get on the road. Cool down at end of day to cool off the turbo is very important. Better to let it set and when started run her under load.
Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418
Yahoo Message Number: 68431 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68431)
i agree , i only start the diesel when i want to go for a trip, starting running for a short time with out a load isn't good. 1000 to 1500RPM after warm it better than idling, but not as good as a load on the road...when i lived in my big rig we had to run the engine to stay warm in winter & cool in summer, just run at 1000 to 1200 RPM while parked..4hrs or 8 hrs at a time bob '02 magna 6028
Yahoo Message Number: 68437 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68437)
Sue
Not the expert but the vehicle also needs to move for tires, seals and I am sure other issues. I also believe that the engine needs to get to operating temperature. I hate it but when I am parked for a couple of months I force myself to go for a ride.
I usually have some repair or I top off fuel.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 68439 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68439)
Hi Sue --
I have an Inspire 06 Inspire 360 too - just got it 2 months ago -- I am parked in Newport dunes RV park in newport beach, ca. until May 1. I, too, had been told to let the engine run (and the generator too), but was told to run the RPMS up to 1000, to not let it just sit and idle on its own. I would be interested in hearing what you further hear on this subject.... all of this is new to me, Sue - first time in a motorhome and I am on my own, so this is all brand new stuff for me!!! have a great day sue
whereabouts in Arizona are u??
Jan
Yahoo Message Number: 68440 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68440)
Dan -- what do u think of running the RPMs up to 1000 - does that help with the idling procedure? Couple people mentioned that to me and also the person I bought my coach from - have an 06 Inspire 360 Davinci. jan
06 inspire 51898
Yahoo Message Number: 68441 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68441)
I agree , usually run about 2 minutes from start up and then set to high idle. Usually just under 1000 rpm. ...the worst thing for a diesel engine is starting or stopping.
There are a lot of forces working against each other to accomplish either one.
AL
00 affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 68442 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68442)
My 1998 Prevost with a Detroit Series 60 is not affected by idling but not a slow speed idle. In fact, the Prevost has a hi-speed idle button that once you start the engine and its up to full oil pressure you can press the fast-idle button. The rpm's go to 1000 and I've been informed that even a half hour idle will never hurt the Detroit. But don't let it sit at the slow speed idle for a half hour. This has been confirmed at various Prevost and Detroit seminars that I have attended. And that high speed button is a Prevost button, not something that CC added.
bill 'n barb, cc 1998 prevost 40' xl #30365
Yahoo Message Number: 68444 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68444)
From reading the engine manufacturers literature and practice I find idling for 10 minutes will not warm up a diesel; all you have to do to prove that is look at your gauges. They may move up a bit but will not get anywhere near the ~200 degrees where modern diesels operate. On idle insufficient heat is produced to fully warm up because the cooling system is designed to handle the heat produced when the engine is working which is orders of magnitude more than at idle. You could idle all day and never reach normal operating temperature. The engine will stay cool, unburned fuel will wash down the cylinders and contaminate the oil. In temperate weather there is no reason to wait before moving; note I said moving not heavy loading. Driving a short distance before high speed use is a better warm-up than idling. It exercises the engine and the entire drive-train getting all the lubricants warmed up so they can do their jobs. For nearly all cases, the process of breaking camp, leaving the campground/RV park and heading for the interstate is just about right. As the engine (and transmission) warm up increase speed to your normal travel methods.
High idle for a minute or two is appropriate, for my rig it takes a minute or so to refill the suspension after it has been dumped. On our C9 Cat setting the cruise control to "on" and pressing and holding the "set" button will raise the idle slowly to about 1,000 rpm. When the air pressure relief valve "pops" and the jacks are fully retracted it's time to go.
While I'm on my soapbox, the idea that diesels use almost no fuel on idle is an old wives's tale as well. It takes fuel to run an engine, any engine, period. Most of us have Silverleaf of one version or another. If you set the mileage calculator to zero, drive 20-30 miles and then just sit at idle I guarantee you can watch the mileage average drop as fuel is consumed. If this old saw was true being caught in traffic wouldn't hurt mileage either - after all that is lots of idle time. Idling wastes fuel.
Every once in a while we are awakened in an RV park by a nearby diesel owner who believes the only way to warm up an engine is race the p--- out of it for 10 minutes. I don't know about the average CC owner but that is like running fingernails down the chalkboard to my ears.
Bottom line - read the engine manufacturer's manuals and publications, each has websites with lots of good, science and engineering based information. We live in a highly technical age, I've had to change my beliefs based on measured results and testing and I am sure more changes are coming. Our engines are tough but we can kill/hurt them with the wrong advice. Unless you are parked for 6 or more months I wouldn't start anything unless I needed it to do some work - as that is what it is designed to do, not idle. If that makes youu nervous, go for a drive every month. I am sure we can up with some good excuses, like getting the rig washed.
I urge you to not believe a word I have said. Read it for yourselves in the manufacturers' materials and the advice given in the various magazines and at FMCA, Good Sam and other rallies. Escapees is a good group too but not as technically oriented.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68446 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68446)
I winter in Yuma AZ and summer in Quincy WA. For the 3 or 4 months I'm there, i do not run my diesel engine or generator. For those who subscribe to the practice of warming your engines periodically, what are the detrimental effects for not doing so? Where can this practice be verified by manufacturer's literature?
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68448 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68448)
My CC manual say if not used for a couple of weeks and the Cat operation and maintenance Manual states over several weeks.
But, If your engine is out of operation and use is not expected short term, precautions should be taken to protect your engine from damage and ensure proper operation when you return to full production. If an engine is not in use, oil can run off the cylinder walls, piston rings, main bearings, connecting rod bearings, crankshaft, gears, and other parts that normally receive lubrication. This lack of lubricant allows corrosion to begin to appear on the metal, especially in areas of high humidity.
Preserve your investment by following the engine storage and preservation procedures recommended by Caterpillar. Your Cat
® dealer has all the supplies and reference material you will need to preserve your investment.
http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf (http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf)
Yahoo Message Number: 68449 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68449)
My Caterpillar Operation & Maintenance manual says, "Special precautions should be taken for engines remaining out of service for prolonged time periods." It does not define "prolonged time periods". What it says is "Refer to Storage Procedures For Caterpillar Products, SEHS9031 for more detailed information on engine storage". I can't find SEHS9031. The whole problem is the word "storage". What does that mean? Your reference to " http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf" (http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf) does not clear that up.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68450 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68450)
Much farm equipment sits for nearly a year from one job to the next without even fuel stabilizers. Unless there is a clear problem with a particular location (high heat and humiidity and known fuel eating bugs/mold endemic) even that isn't needed. They start right up and last decades. IMHO much is from folks trying to sell everything from treatments to service. Make the owner nervous and sell, sell, sell
New car manufacturers now explicitly state things like paint and fabric treatments are not neeed. They also provide two maintenance schedules, and the dealers always determine you need that oil changed every 3,000 miles no matter how you drive.
Diesel engine manufacturers have spent millions improving the metallurgy and design of their engines to make them trouble free and reliable. Why spend bucks burning fuel when they don't even recommend it?
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68451 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68451)
Jim
My information is based only on discussions with service techs. I have been told that there are oils in the composition of tires designed to prevent cracking and deterioration that are brought to the surface by the tire rolling down the road. I believe that my Onan generator operations manual is very specific regarding periodic operation and the need to run the generator under load.
I believe that experienced service techs are better qualified to recommend operations practices for a RV than the manufactures manual. I could give you numerous examples of where the recommended service is light years from reality. The over prescribe probably to cover the rears.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 68452 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68452)
I rebuilt cat engines and components and have seen first had what can happen. RUST. To the point of pitting metal. But that was seen on heavy equipment engines that set sometimes for a year of longer. The worst one was a engine that had set unused for a couple of years, it was bad. Water would condense and setting on oil lubed metal and start rusting. For short term not running in dryer climates, not something I would worry about. For close to a year in humid conditions, then ?????? Think one could kind of tell by how damp the interior of the coach becomes of lack of use in storage.
But there are other things on our coaches other then engines. All the running gear. We take ours out once a month and make a 40 mile round trip. Warms everything up real nice and keeps everything lubed. Run the gen for .5 hrs. as well at the same time. This is so much better then a cold start and idle. As others have noted, takes work to warm up a diesel as should be done.
Think how much fuel one can buy for a transmission control valve hung from lack of use. Or fuel injection problems or any number of problems that will show up from lack of use. Running once a month or so, is just like buying insurance for your drive train. Small investment to cover big ticket items.
Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418
Yahoo Message Number: 68453 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68453)
Jan
If I can't bully myself into moving my backup plan is a couple of minutes at idle and then increase the idle to about 1000 until the temperature pickups. I also have a hydro-hot with engine pre-heat which I will also use.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 68454 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68454)
One thing I should have added: Always impressed with Cat, they painted the inside of all metal castings to stop rusting from a setting unit. Don't know of anyone else that does that, sure others do, just don't know who.
Leonard
Yahoo Message Number: 68455 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68455)
Bob,
My sentiments exactly.
Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 68456 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68456)
Dan,
Without getting in a p----g contest, i disagree. Of all people, i would never put much creditability in what a service tech has to say. You ask a question, you always get a answer. No one in their position likes to say "I don't know".
Don't know what tires has to do with this subject. Give me a little more info on where the Onan manual specifies periodic operation of the generator.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68457 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68457)
Leonard,
I want comment on your experience with cat engines, but i certainly would question the fact that diesel engines rust in the context that this discussion addresses. we are talking a few months, not years. I will never agree that my Cat C10 is going to get rusty because I set here in Yuma for 5 or 6 months without running. The same thing holds true for everything associated with a MH, suspension, generator and etc.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68458 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68458)
Jim, I don't know what generator you have partially because you don't identify your coach or post your coach number. But, I have done your research and find the recommendation for exercise on page 11 of the owners manual for my HDKAK.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 68459 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68459)
Ken here I agree with Lenord, Working at Cat The Fleet Trucks had a Idle Time enabeld to shut down the diesel, Our Drivers in Florida liked to Run the A/C when they off loaded eqpt. Thousands of Gallons are saved allowing me and coworkers to get some Retirement from our Dealer. I run our coach every other month at High Idle for 20 min and relevel the coach and do a walkaround and check for leaks or noise. Its up to You.
Ken 99 Allure 30356
Yahoo Message Number: 68460 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68460)
George,
I have an SOB with the HDKAK generator. In my service manual, after "Exercise", there are instructions on "Storage", which is defined as "---when the genset cannot be exercised regularly and will be idle for more than 120 days". In my manual there are six items you should perform when storing. !. Turn the genset circuit breaker off, 2. Change air filter if dirty, 3. change engine oil, 4. Disconnect battery cables, 5. Plug exhaust pipe and 6. Close fuel supply valve. Now, if I don't do any of these things, which component of my genset could possible be damaged? You see the two stepping here? Instead of doing the procedure for "infrequent" use, I'll just do the "storing" procedure. I would bet this is better than running your genset, once a month, for two hours under half load.
Oh, BTW, my SOB is a 1997 Beaver Marquis. At one time I owned a 1994 CC Concept. Had it for about 6 years and used the same operating procedures for it with no problems.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68461 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68461)
Jim, in my manual on page 11 is the heading "Exercising the Genset" which says
"Exercise the genset at least 2 hours each month if use is infrequest.
It goes on to tell you how to exercise it and even recommends the best way to structure the two hours per month of exercise. This section immediately precedes "Storing the Genset" section which begins on the next page and is the same as yours.
I suggest that you look back one page in your manual.
So, I think you can store it or you can exercise it but the manufacturer suggests that you do not just let it sit without one or the other. Frankly, for me, exercising is much simpler than storing.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 68463 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68463)
Jim,
You need to read my post more careful, I stated much more then 5 or 6 months. For 5 or 6 months in the dry of Yuma I would not worry. For 5 or 6 months in Oregon's winter I would worry. Just the other day I was under ours and water was dripping off of everything. And it is in an enclosed cover. Temperature change and dampness coming up from the ground I guess. Caused me to open one end for more circulation. When you see that much dampness under the coach, makes one unhappy and wonder just how far into things it goes. Five or six months in that wet of conditions would cause lots of problems, that is only one reason we take it out every month and get it good and hot. It is kind of the same thing with keeping tires longer then 5 years, how much of a gambler is one? A little proactive maintenance is cheap compared to what the repair bills can be.
Leonard
Yahoo Message Number: 68465 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68465)
Jim
I am not talking about a service tech at some RV shop. I am talking about Colton Truck Terminal, Peterson CAT, CAT and ONAN technical lines. I don't have my manuals with me but a couple of good examples come to mind where the manufacturer's service recommendations are not based on much reality that I can determine. The service intervals for rear end differentials and hydraulic fluid filters are I believe one year or 50,000 miles. I can't find anyone who believes that is appropriate for a motorhome. The manufacturer (Bendix) recommends replacing desiccant filters every 2 years.
CAT service (tech) and Bendix techs on their technical service line say that is only appropriate if you are driving 100,000 miles in very damp environment. They recommend periodically checking for moisture in your lines. Bottom line I think it is tough but I tend to go with the people with hands on experience versus those who wrote the service manual.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 68466 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68466)
George,
In my book, there is a section titled "Genset Break-IN, Exercise and Storage". Page wise, your book is different from mine but seem to say the same thing. My book says, "EXERCISE the genset at least 2 hours each month if use is infrequent." If I wanted to EXERCISE my genset, that is what I would do. But, I don't want to EXERCISE it. I prefer to STORE it instead and I listed the 6 steps for STORING as delineated in my book. In your book, what are steps for STORING? What I pointed out, in my last response, was you really don't have to do anything. You can't get any simpler than that.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68467 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68467)
George,
Go here, http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/html/Common/pdf/manuals/981-0161.pdf. (http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/html/Common/pdf/manuals/981-0161.pdf.) Read EXERCISING on page 10 and STORAGE on page 11. Is this what your manual says? Following those guide lines, I STORE my genset when I am parked and connected to shore power. That's a lot easier than EXERCISING and less wear and tear on the genset.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68468 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68468)
Leonard,
I agree.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68469 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68469)
Dan,
You are into areas other than the subject, which is genset exercising. I don't have any knowledge or experience other than what I gleam from manufacturers literature and common sense. I agree that procedures, written by manual writers, leaves a lot to be desired. I also question service personnel advice when logic says something else. Just because they work for a well known and respected service company doesn't NECESSARILY mean they are knowledgable beyond repute.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68471 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68471)
My HDJAK has the same recommendations - a generator has many more considerations than an engine alone.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68472 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68472)
Dan - I have yet to find (hear) a factory tech on a hot line deviate from the manufacturers recommendations. So I am confused how they would be a better source than the manual since that is what they base their answers on.
Repair/service facility tech range from outstanding to salesmen pushing everything they can convince you to spend money on. Unless I have known him/her some time I seldom take their advice unless it agrees with the factory printed materials. I feel I have saved a large amount of funds following that rule.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68478 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68478)
Jim,
I'll assume that you don't know that capitalizing words or phrases on a forum is the same as shouting and that you would not do that if we were face to face.
The answer to your question below was contained in my post to which you were responding. I'll quote it below.
" This section immediately precedes "Storing the Genset" section which begins on the next page and is the same as yours.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 68480 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68480)
George,
Yes, I know some folks consider capitalizing is the same as shouting. I did that to emphasis the words "exercise and store". I don't know what the point is. It has nothing to do with exercising a genset. I assume you wanted to scold me for being a naughty boy.
The point of this debate is should you exercise a genset if it will not be used for several months. You have not responded to my logic so I assume you have come to the conclusion that my logic has merit. The point is to "exercise" or "store".
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68484 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68484)
Jim E: You are a naughty boy! You refuse to post the make and model # of your coach as asked by our forum moderator! Barrie Boas 94 Concept 5111
Yahoo Message Number: 68486 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68486)
Barrie,
See message #68460.
Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 68488 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68488)
Bob
Do you really think that the guy that wrote the CAT service manual is the expert on running a CAT engine in a motor home and that the guy who wrote the service manual for the Bendix air dryer was thinking of a motor home when he/she was writing these instructions. I have found the technical hot lines to be very good and they do help in applying the generic guidelines in the service manuals. It has not been my experience that the factory techs parrot the book. They are the first to point out that these guidelines are written to cover a myriad of vehicles, climates and operating environments.
Take some time and go look at the service interval recommendations for air dryer desiccant filters, air system purge valves, rear end differentials, hydraulic system filters and tell me you follow those recommendations.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 68490 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68490)
YES JIM... YOU ARE INDEED A NAUGHTY BOY! YOU HAVE NOT ONLY INCURRED THE WRATH OF THE 'CAPITALIZATION POLICE', YOU HAVE NOW "TICKED OFF" THE 'RV NAME & NUMBER POLICE'... I GUESS NEXT YOU WILL GET IN TROUBLE WITH THE "DON'T POST THAT TOPIC POLICE"...
BUCK
K7WN, '99MAGNA5653, CAT C10, ALLISON HD4060...
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Yahoo Message Number: 68491 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68491)
Buck,
Wow, what can i do to get back in the good graces of of everyone?
Jim E
1997 Beaver Marquis, CAT C10, Allison HD4060 2004 Ford Explorer
Spoiled Yorkie
Concept shopping
Yahoo Message Number: 68494 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68494)
Ignore Buck! There always people who don't wish to conform. The not using of Capitals is just common courtesy. The posting of name, serial number, etc, helps others in helping you. If you post all the pertinent data, you will get better responses to your queries And Yes it is a free world!
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 68501 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68501)
Ron,
Yea, i know using capitals are considered a no no. I was just emphasizing two words "exercising" and "storage".
I normally do not post the name and model of my SOB. If my question or comment is about my MH then I delineate that information.
This forum is primarily for CC owners, which I am not. But i am looking for a 1997 to a 1999 Concept.
Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 68503 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68503)
Dan:
I don't use the service manual for such advice as that is for repairs. I was referring to the user/owner manuals and the RV specific documents Cat and Cummins, and others, have provided and I would hope that the people they chose to write those are in fact the experts with the right answers. Otherwise I am at a loss as to who and what I should believe. If the only choice is a tech I don't know from Adam (as opposed to some of the outstanding techs I have dealt with who absolutely know things no engineer would think of) I have to go with the established expert. The origin of this string of messages was idling the engine every month. If it doesn't say that is required I very much doubt it is because the printed documents are already very conservative and usually recommend much more than the minimum necessary maintenance procedures. They do this to protect themselves from warranty claims by owners who fail to maintain their equipment. If idling the engine every month while parked did any good, it would be in there.
On the other hand, you're right, I don't follow the examples you gave any more than I idle my engine once a month or any other arbitrary set time. What is necessary actually depends on usage and location (weather for one). If one feels knowledgeable enough to make judgement calls on these intervals, go for it, it's your coach. Everyone else would be wise to follow the directions as published. For warranties there is no other choice. I doubt very much if a manufacturer would accept a warranty claim because the on-line or call-in tech told you it was the OK thing to do. You'd lose versus the published requirements.
"If it ain't in writing......"
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68512 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68512)
Actually Jim, you never left the "good graces" of MOST folks on the CC forum... There are only a few members that think the use of capitals or forgetting to post our coach numbers are "CAPITAL" offenses!
buck
k7wn, '99magna5653, Cat C10, Allison HD4060
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Yahoo Message Number: 68521 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68521)
Ken here, Retired Cat Power Systems tech. My 2cents: Being in the standby power biz at one time I will be short. I run my engine and generator every other month and here is why! Im certified and Master factory Traind! This has nothing to do with Parked RV's. I winter for the season in Yuma. Here goes, Hospitals, 911 swirchboards police and fire stations all have Back up Power Generators, Mostly Diesel and Gas. Be Glad you are alive to read this as I encouraged my endusers to do WEEKLY Generator Loaded tests! Let me tell you how many times a system faild and I did not just test Cat! We did them all! You will loose in the end by NOT running your systems! The more a end user did not test his eqpt. the more it faild and the more work for and my Team me. Im worked behiend the scens saved many lives and jobs by telling my endusers to TEST! Im the source on this! been there and done it. That which is not used wastes away! Im off my Soap Box. The ball is in your court now. Pay now or pay later. Remember you have a new generation of Tech's to feed! Choice is your's! Ken 99 Allure 30356.
Yahoo Message Number: 68531 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68531)
Ken,
You said "you lose by not running your systems" - amen. The question was idling only the engine once a month. Several agree with you that you need to exercise all the systems if you want to see any benefit from the activity. Idling once a month is pretty much a waste and lots of equipment can sit for many months with no problems. Emergency equipment is another topic. If I can't get to my rig for 3 months I don't lose any sleep and with over 40 years of RVing have yet to experience a significant problem. The most sensitive item to this "neglect" is the battery(s). Everything else seems to do fine.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68532 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68532)
Well, I think enough comments have been expressed. The winner is: Don't run your MH engine or generator every month. It's a waste of time and fuel and causes undue wear and tear on you equipment. Ask anyone who agrees with me and they will tell you the same thing.
Jim E
Yahoo Message Number: 68536 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68536)
Jim, you are funny. The winner, in my book is not to idle your equipment, but work it once a month.
Leonard K
Yahoo Message Number: 68548 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68548)
I disagree! I just haven't been responding because it appears to me all you want to due is defy logic and argue with anyone you can. It's not what the manual recommends. It's not what the experts that I know advise. It appears through your postings you believe the individuals responsible for the manuals don't know as much as you or are stupid. (keep in mind Caterpillar and Cummings warranty these products and They are trusting these people, most of which are engineers, to properly advise us on how to maintain them. Cat warranties their engines for a quarter million miles so they would be Stupid to trust this job to someone who is just making up stuff.
Every situation is somewhat different, like humidity for instance, so they don't pin down an exact time period.
I have seen a Gen Set with over 5000 hrs on it with no major work having been done to it and I've seen the same model of generator with the windings burned up with less than 400 hours on it . I asked the tech that was rewinding that Generator "What would cause the windings to go bad when the generator has all of it's overload devices?" The reply was "The owner failed to exercise it and keep the moisture burned out of the windings, it's the hardest thing on them. That's why the manual recommends exercising it monthly preferably for 2 hrs with about a half load on it instead of two one hour sessions." When I look at all the UPS Brown trucks running around town I see them starting and stopping them all day long, day after day, year after year. Starting and stopping puts some of the greatest stresses on the engine at that time, but as long as there is a good film of lubricant on mating surfaces the lubricant will divert those forces. If you let an engine set long enough some of these surfaces will lose that film of protection. If then you add the rust, that can and will develop in the right environment, it will act as an abrasive to these machined surfaces. It may not grind off much metal each time but that's when the damage occurs. I personally believe in using a boundary lubricant like "Power-up". While I worked at Rockwell International we used to make the main landing gear assemblies for the Boeing 747. The three spindle CNC mills we used to rough out the inboard and outboard trunnions had to have the spindles replaced about every 90 days due to bearing failure. Each spindle cost about $30,000 to rebuild. We started using "power-up" in them and we never replaced another spindle for the next five years we ran them on those machines.
When I opened up my email I hoped I wouldn't see another Post on this subject but knew I had a delete key on my keyboard if I needed it. I wished I had used it but your "Well, I think enough comments have been expressed. The winner is:( ME of course)" comment was just to much not to respond to. But guess what, I think your right about " Ask anyone who agrees with me and they will tell you the same thing."But I bet if I asked someone who disagrees with you they would tell me something different.
Kevin Burns
owner of a 00 Affinity # 5865, not a SOB owner
Yahoo Message Number: 68557 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68557)
Kevin,
" Ask anyone who agrees with me and they will tell you the same thing." That was meant as a joke, Kevin.
One last comment. I'm not trying to defy logic or argue, I'm expressing my opinion, same as you. You stated, "It's not what the manual recommends". I'm not clear on what you mean when you say "It's". Look in your generator manual and see what it says about "Storage". Why not follow those procedures instead of running your generator every month?
Jim E.
Yahoo Message Number: 68560 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68560)
Kevin, you are dead-on! As an Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic and an FAA Authorized Inspector for aircraft, I can attest to what you are saying. If a turbine engine isn’t exercised at least monthly, the seals will begin leaking and corrosion will begin forming on parts that otherwise should never see such things happen to them.
Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 68563 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68563)
I was hoping it was a joke, Jim. To me your making more out of it than is there. I have read my manual and it is not ambiguous to me.
If you let your generator set for months your not removing the moisture out of the windings. I have seen the fan belts form to the radius of the pulleys it rides in if let set long enough. It will make it noisy and cause you to replace the belt or listen to noise. Cat even recommends loosening the belts when in storage. If your to lazy or cheap to spend a gallon of diesel every month to lubricate all the seals and exercise basically every other system (Fuel, coolant, oil, ect...) and keep rust to a minimum, do as your heart is content. These machines are designed to be run thousands of hours but In my experience the lack of use can cause as much or more damage than proper use.
Kevin Burns 00 affinity 5865
Yahoo Message Number: 68567 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68567)
Jim Some people don't understand a joke or a nuance. One last item on the subject . The Tech/ Maintenance manuals have to cover every possibility, so that the Manufactures can cover their butts. The material has to cover the possibility of operating in Alaska at 40 below for extended periods, or hardly at all. It has to cover same at 120 Degrees in AZ. This is no different than the bearings on the jet wheels that were at 60 to 70 Below and then go from zero to 160 MPH when the wheels hit the runway. The criteria for maintenance , in each case is clearly an extreme, and then the maintenance time and schedule, should be different in each case. Typically our coaches are not used much and so our care should be based on how we use the coach. A motorhome purchased to follow rock star around to the different places in the country might put on 200,000 miles per year , where as , we probably put on an average of 12,000 miles per year. In my view Bob Harnden's response summarized it best for occasionally used coaches. Then again, those who agree with me----etc ( joke )
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025
Yahoo Message Number: 68608 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68608)
Bob, Ken here, I agree with you 1000%! Emergancy Power Systems are a different Ballgame. I just Started a Cat C-7 a few weeks ago in the Yuma foothills on a SOB. My Cat Exp. gets around the parks here. I had the owner Install new Batterys which I helped him install. The coach HAD NOT BEEN RUN IN 7 PLUS YEARS! He had it to Cat just before he stopped driving it. He is old and wanting to sell it. I checked fluids hoses and he added diesel fuel inhabiter. I had a younger freind just crank the engine and the coach had rear oil press ga. I saw oil press. I told him go ahead and start the engine. Since Yuma is so dry I did not use a board to choke off the intake air just incase the engine could run away like I would do in the shop. Yes it started and I ran at high Idle to Warm up. We have much larger diesels in our CC's. But for me was a learning lesson. I emailed my coworkers and they were shocked after 7 plus years. Again The Cat had ELC and just had the oil changed. Thanks for sharing Bob. Ken 99 Allure 30356.