Country Coach Restoration, Repair & Parts Forums => Country Coach Archive => Topic started by: Bob Kumza on November 24, 2003, 02:54:56 pm
Title: Diesel Fuel Filtration
Post by: Bob Kumza on November 24, 2003, 02:54:56 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 7248 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7248)I recently had a discussion with a fellow RVer. He told me that he had a 2 micron diesel fuel filter system installed on his coach because of known problems associated with using a standard 10 micron Fleetguard filter. He showed me a story written up in a truckers magazine to back up his story.
In brief, the story said that the older diesel fuel injection systems run at about 3,000 psi, but the newer systems (like the new Cummins ISL engine) run at 30,000 psi. The new higher pressure computerized fuel injection enables greater fuel economy, but is capable of doing substantial damage to fuel injectors with contaminent particles only 7 microns in size. Damaged injectors cause loss of fuel economy, damage to fuel pumps, smokey exhaust and greater engine wear due to excessive fuel reducing oil lubricity. The newest filtration systems are filtering fuel down to 2 microns to eliminate these expensive engine problems.
I called Fleetguard and they told me that the standard Fleetguard filters I use are rated as follows: FS1242 is rated at 20 microns at 96%; FS1015 is an upgrade to the FS1242 and is rated at 10 microns at 98.7%; and the FS1022 (the one with the water sensor in the bottom) is rated at 10 micron at 98.7%. So the standard filters only filter particles down to 10 microns.
The industry is pushing 2 micron fuel filtration to eliminate these problems. Fleetguard has developed a new system called Optiguard, but Cummins has not yet adopted it use. Caterpillar has adopted 2 micron filtration and seems to recognize the problem. You can read all about the Optiguard filter at
Has anyone who has a high milage coach experienced any of these problems? Or is this guy just blowing smoke?
The new 2 micron fuel filtration systems run about $700 installed. I'm wondering if it is really worth it. Any comments from the technical experts of the group are appreciated.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel Filtration
Post by: Fred Kovol_01 on November 24, 2003, 05:38:31 pm
When you read the referenced LT15075 carefully, even in the Optiguard version (filter element removed from top with clear plastic bowl vs present screw-on), Cummins has not changed it requirements, namely a 10 micron filter. The FH23000 with the FS19557 element runs $250 with about one hour to install and $100 for pumbing. It's still a 10 micron filter which replaces the primary(FS1022). For reference, some Cats require 2 micron, others 13 micron. Fred Kovol
[quote author=rvrobert2003" \.\.\>] > I recently had a discussion with a fellow RVer. He told me that he > had a 2 micron diesel fuel filter system installed on his coach > because of known problems associated with using a standard 10 micron > Fleetguard filter. He showed me a story written up in a truckers > magazine to back up his story.
In brief, the story said that the older diesel fuel injection [/quote] systems
Quote
run at about 3,000 psi, but the newer systems (like the new Cummins > ISL engine) run at 30,000 psi. The new higher pressure computerized > fuel injection enables greater fuel economy, but is capable of doing > substantial damage to fuel injectors with contaminent particles only > 7 microns in size. Damaged injectors cause loss of fuel economy, > damage to fuel pumps, smokey exhaust and greater engine wear due to > excessive fuel reducing oil lubricity. The newest filtration
systems
Quote
are filtering fuel down to 2 microns to eliminate these expensive > engine problems.
I called Fleetguard and they told me that the standard Fleetguard > filters I use are rated as follows: FS1242 is rated at 20 microns
at
Quote
96%; FS1015 is an upgrade to the FS1242 and is rated at 10 microns > at 98.7%; and the FS1022 (the one with the water sensor in the > bottom) is rated at 10 micron at 98.7%. So the standard filters
only
Quote
filter particles down to 10 microns. > The industry is pushing 2 micron fuel filtration to eliminate these > problems. Fleetguard has developed a new system called Optiguard, > but Cummins has not yet adopted it use. Caterpillar has adopted 2 > micron filtration and seems to recognize the problem. You can read > all about the Optiguard filter at >http://www.fleetguard (http://www.fleetguard)
com/fleet/pdfs/product_lit/fleetguard_brochures/
Quote
LT15075.pdf
Has anyone who has a high milage coach experienced any of these > problems? Or is this guy just blowing smoke? >
The new 2 micron fuel filtration systems run about $700 installed. I'm wondering if it is really worth it.
Any comments from the technical experts of the group are
appreciated.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel Filtration
Post by: Bob Kumza on November 24, 2003, 06:23:53 pm
Thanks for your comments. I agree with you that Cummins has not changed their 10 micron filter spec. BUT, it seems that the truckers who run new Cummins engines do recognize a problem that Cummins has not acknowledged yet. And that's my point exactly... The problem IS recognized by the industry (truckers), but it is NOT yet recognized by Cummins.
The FH23000 with the FS1020 filter is rated by Fleetguard at 2 microns.
What I'd like to know is if any high milage Cummins owners have experienced the problem.
The price quote I got today for the FS23000 with the standard FS19557 element is from Cummins in Tampa. They charge $575.31. Where did you find it for $250?
Thanks again for your comments.
Robert
Quote from: fredkovol
Hi Folks,
When you read the referenced LT15075 carefully, even in the
Optiguard
Quote
version (filter element removed from top with clear plastic bowl vs > present screw-on), Cummins has not changed it requirements, namely
a
Quote
10 micron filter. The FH23000 with the FS19557 element runs $250
with
Quote
about one hour to install and $100 for pumbing. It's still a 10
micron
Quote
filter which replaces the primary(FS1022). For reference, some Cats > require 2 micron, others 13 micron. Fred Kovol
Quote from: rvrobert2003"[/quote
Quote
..>] > I recently had a discussion with a fellow RVer. He told me that
he
Quote
had a 2 micron diesel fuel filter system installed on his coach > > because of known problems associated with using a standard 10
micron
Quote
Fleetguard filter. He showed me a story written up in a truckers > > magazine to back up his story. >
> In brief, the story said that the older diesel fuel injection > systems
> run at about 3,000 psi, but the newer systems (like the new
Cummins
Quote
ISL engine) run at 30,000 psi. The new higher pressure
computerized
Quote
fuel injection enables greater fuel economy, but is capable of
doing
Quote
substantial damage to fuel injectors with contaminent particles
only
Quote
7 microns in size. Damaged injectors cause loss of fuel economy, > > damage to fuel pumps, smokey exhaust and greater engine wear due
to
Quote
excessive fuel reducing oil lubricity. The newest filtration > systems
> are filtering fuel down to 2 microns to eliminate these expensive > > engine problems. >
> I called Fleetguard and they told me that the standard Fleetguard > > filters I use are rated as follows: FS1242 is rated at 20
microns
Quote
at
> 96%; FS1015 is an upgrade to the FS1242 and is rated at 10
microns
Quote
at 98.7%; and the FS1022 (the one with the water sensor in the > > bottom) is rated at 10 micron at 98.7%. So the standard filters > only
> filter particles down to 10 microns. >
> The industry is pushing 2 micron fuel filtration to eliminate
these
Quote
problems. Fleetguard has developed a new system called
Optiguard,
Quote
but Cummins has not yet adopted it use. Caterpillar has adopted
2
Quote
micron filtration and seems to recognize the problem. You can
read
Quote
all about the Optiguard filter at > >http://www.fleetguard (http://www.fleetguard) > com/fleet/pdfs/product_lit/fleetguard_brochures/ > > LT15075.pdf >
> Has anyone who has a high milage coach experienced any of these > > problems? Or is this guy just blowing smoke? > >
> The new 2 micron fuel filtration systems run about $700
installed.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel Filtration
Post by: Rheavn on November 24, 2003, 07:09:20 pm
[quote author=rvrobert2003" > > ..>] > > I recently had a discussion with a fellow RVer. He told me that > he
> > had a 2 micron diesel fuel filter system installed on his coach > > > because of known problems associated with using a standard 10 > micron
> > Fleetguard filter. He showed me a story written up in a
truckers
Quote
> magazine to back up his story. > >
> > In brief, the story said that the older diesel fuel injection > > systems
> > run at about 3,000 psi, but the newer systems (like the new > Cummins
> > ISL engine) run at 30,000 psi. The new higher pressure > computerized
> > fuel injection enables greater fuel economy, but is capable of > doing
> > substantial damage to fuel injectors with contaminent particles > only
> > 7 microns in size. Damaged injectors cause loss of fuel
economy,
Quote
> damage to fuel pumps, smokey exhaust and greater engine wear due > to
> > excessive fuel reducing oil lubricity. The newest filtration > > systems
> > are filtering fuel down to 2 microns to eliminate these
expensive
Quote
> engine problems. > >
> > I called Fleetguard and they told me that the standard
Fleetguard
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel Filtration
Post by: Lee Casebeer_01 on November 24, 2003, 07:30:07 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 7254 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7254)I think when they talk of NEW they are referring to the ISL Engine. And the ISC would not be as proned to the problem. I'm checking My cummin's manual this evening for Fuel Pressure Spec. 3,000 psi verses 30,000 psi someone mentioned earlier... Lee in Portland with 350 ISC "rheavn" ssfarms1@...> wrote: