Yahoo Message Number: 7805 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7805)
Hi Kevin,
My brother in law is on his third Ford SUV being towed behind his CC Concept. On all three he has used the Roadmaster driveshaft disconnect product. For that matter, the disconnect, base plate and tow bar is all by Roadmaster. He is very happy with the products and the disconnect route is a sure thing. I am sure Roadmaster will head you in the right direction.
Fred Sage 2001 CC Magna # 5983; 1999 CR-V w/ Blue Ox
Yahoo Message Number: 7817 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7817)
Kevin,
The tow system my brother in law uses on his Expedition was not one stop shopping. The driveshaft disconnect is a Remco product, while the base plate and related equipment came from Roadmaster. Two different companies to accomplish the four wheels down.
Fred
Yahoo Message Number: 7839 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7839)
Okay...set me straight. We know the manufactures (except Prevost) must list the CCC....cargo carrying capacity...in every coach. This is what the chasis is designed to carry after allowing for full fuel, water, lp and 154 pounds per person based on sleeping capacity. That number is as low as 2000lbs and as high as 4000-5000 lbs depending on the coach. As an aside, a recent review in Motor Home of a million dollar Newell had a CCC of LESS than 1000 lbs. So it doesn't necessarily follow big coach...big engine...big ccc. Now, how does this number (ccc) relate to the dragging weight of the tow vechile.
What about gross combimed weight? Joe Cronin Magna Jeep GC
Yahoo Message Number: 7840 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7840)
Gross Combined (GCWR) weight less Gross Vehicle (GVWR) weight = maximum toad weight. GCWR and GVWR are fixed numbers. CCC is a variable calculated by subtracting the "wet" weight and hitch tongue weight from the Gross Vehicle weight leaving CCC.
Dave
Yahoo Message Number: 7841 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7841)
Where would one find the GCWR on an Intrigue? It's not on the sticker by the
driver nor is on the bath cabinet door. The sticker does have a note to deduct the towed 'tongue weight' from the CCC.
Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 7842 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7842)
I found mine in the Documentation binder. I believe it was in the coach one.
Dave
Yahoo Message Number: 7843 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7843)
Oops - my mistake - mine is on the bathroom door.
Yahoo Message Number: 7844 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7844)
Dave:
You had me looking again with the light on this time .
My sticker has only the GVWR and CCC.
No GCWR listed.
Jim
Yahoo Message Number: 7845 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7845)
Ha! Next you'll be confessing you had to get your reading glasses!
Interesting, mine shows GVWR, GCWR, Unloaded Vehicle Weight, and NCC (as opposed to CCC), plus a water rating of 105 gal or 800+ lbs. It also reminds you to subtract the tongue weight.
Dave
Yahoo Message Number: 7846 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7846)
This string has thrown around a lot of letters and generalizations...but Dave, you could do us a favor by running the actual numbers for a real example. How about it?
Yahoo Message Number: 7847 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7847)
No problem. First thing tomorrow I'll go out, write everything down, and give a report.
Dave
Yahoo Message Number: 7850 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7850)
From my '98 Allure:
GVWR = 30,000
GCWR = 36,000
Leaving a towing capacity of 6,000 (so my 3200# Wrangler is OK).
UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) = 24982 NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) = 5018
Note that (GVWR - UVW) = NCC
There is an additional label indicating the vehicle is rated to carry 106 gallons of water or 883 lbs.
The problem with the NCC rating is that it does not include dealer options, water, lp, or fuel. CCC, or Cargo Carrying Capacity includes all of these "wet" items. My esitmate is that the wet items, water, fuel, and lp add around 2000 lbs so I believe I am looking at a the following:
NCC - ("wet items" + hitch tongue weight) = CCC or
5018 - (2000 + 0) = CCC
5018 - 2000 = 3018
which means I can carry 3018 lbs of people and stuff. If I didn't tow
4-down I would have included the tongue weight of the trailer.
Dave
Yahoo Message Number: 7856 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7856)
Hi CC members,
As a CC wanna-be, soon to purchase a 2004 Allure, I am also looking at my toad requirements as well. My existing vehicle (2003 Infiniti QX4) cannot be towed (except
for putting it on a trailer -- bringing the overall weight to 8000 lbs) ) so I have also been
shopping for a toad. The ' 04 Allure has a 10,000 lb tow package but as I have been
reading all recent email about GCWR and GVWR, I am appreciating more and more that lighter is better, even if the coach can pull 10,000 lbs.
So I am looking at a group of vehicles that seem to be great candidates as toads
(and I know there are lots of others but I have limited my search to mid-size SUVs):
1. Jeep Cherokee (Ladero or Limited) -- 4x4, flat towable, transfer case in neutral,
transmission in neutral, GVWR = approx. 4900 lbs.
Issues: Reliability seems to be the hot button -- read/hear lots of horror stories.
Good off-road capability, fairly nice ride in city or highways. Jeep Liberty not
evaluated as yet but could be a very nice candidate as well.
2. Nissan Xterra, 4x4 flat towable -- transfer case in 2H, transmission in neutral.
GVWR = approx. 3700 lbs. Great off-road capability. Firmer ride in city or highways
compared to Jeep. Also, while towable, engine must be started every 500 miles
or so to get the oil circulating through engine and drive train.
3. Saturn Vue, 4x4 6 cyl. flat towable -- but with a 65 mph limit (dealer not exactly
certain as to why 65 mph --- possibly due to reasons of a limited responsibility
in their literature and not so much a mechanical issue ??). GVWR = approx. 3600 lbs.
Best mpg of the three -- 20 / 28.
4. Honda CRV and Subaru Forester -- not as yet evaluated.
Opinions/comments appreciated.
I also wanted to say Thanks for allowing a CC wanna-be to take part on this group.
What I learned just in the past two weeks of reading email has been invaluable ---
you can't buy information like this.
cheers,
Ben Catanzaro
Yahoo Message Number: 7857 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7857)
A couple of notes - The Jeep family is towable with any transmission.
The Vue with only a certain auto transmission, the Xterra needs a driveshaft disconnect on the rear shaft if it's an automatic transmission but the stick 4x4 is fine, you might want to add Honda Pilot (Accura MDX) to your list as they are OK 4-down.
Dave
Yahoo Message Number: 7858 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7858)
Another point: Jeep vechicles have a very poor reliability/incidence of repair record. Hondas are almost bulletproof.
Yahoo Message Number: 7859 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7859)
One of our two toads is a '98 Subaru Forester "L" (the other is an '89 Acura Integra). The Forester, as all new stick-shift Subarus, is flat towable ( see http://www.drive.subaru.com/Towing.html (http://www.drive.subaru.com/Towing.html) ). Towed mileage doesn't accrue, there's no speed or distance limit, and the car weighs ~3,100 lbs.
One new Forester (the XT?) has the WRX's turbo engine. Although I'm a big Honda fan, I chose the Forester for a few good reasons, including: crash ratings are second to none; reliability (check Consumer Reports) is outstanding; no spare tire on the hatch (can block your rearward vision and pushes the hatch in if you inadvertently back into a pole, for example); more horsepower/torque than the CR-V (not a problem in the newer models).
If the Forester wasn't available, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CR-V.
We've driven our Forester many miles off-road, by the way, and it does very well, although it doesn't have the ground clearance or dual-range transmission of a "real" 4WD vehicle. On the other hand, the Forester rides like a car, not a truck, and is stable enough on the highway that it doesn't have the warning label typically affixed to 4WD vehicles. Also, the Forester's all-wheel-drive system is constantly "on," providing great traction whether on dry, wet, or dirt/snow-covered road. If you don't care for the Forester, Subaru makes other vehicles including the Legacy, Outback, Outback Sport, WRX and WRX ST-i, All of 'em all-wheel-drive as standard equipment.
Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97
Yahoo Message Number: 7860 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7860)
Ben:
I tow a 2003 Jeep Liberty, 4 wheels down and have no problems, just put the transfer case in neutral, transmission in Park and it just follows me everywhere. I have also had no problems with the Jeep itself. Great off road, a bit noisy on highways.
As for the ride, it is actually better than I thought it would be. The big factor here is my wife who has a real battle with motion sickness, for example when we had our boat, she would be sick when I took in three of the four mooring lines. I was going to rename it the Vomit Comet.
While the Liberty does weigh in around 4000lbs, I only notice it on those long uphill grades.
Chuck Penque
2003 Intrigue 11673
Tag Axle and 400HP
Yahoo Message Number: 7861 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7861)
Have been towing driving a used GC limited for two years 10,000 miles (73,000 odometer miles). No mechanical problems yet. Compared to Honda or Acura, is truly off road capable vehicle if that is of interest.
Yahoo Message Number: 7862 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7862)
Ben, my experience with a 2000 Jeep Grd. Cher. has been excellent. It is now over three years old with 44,000 mi showing and probably 30,000 towed miles. The ONLY problem I have had with this vehicle is warping brake rotors which I finally just learned to live with after a couple of replacements and a couple of re-surfacings. The ride in my Jeep is superior to my wife's Lincoln Navigator. I don't hesitate to recommend the Jeep G C.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 7865 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7865)
Is anybody towing a TrailBlazer? How does the ride compare with the Jeep GC?
Ree
Yahoo Message Number: 7868 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7868)
Hi Ben,
You can add the GMC Envoy or Yukon, and their Chevy equiv. to your list, just switch the trans to freewheeling and you are good to go.
Bill Harris
03 Allure 1st Ave 30912
03 GMC Envoy tow
Datastorm
Yahoo Message Number: 7871 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7871)
Walt,
I have friends who own 2000 Jeep G.C and they experienced the same brake problem you had, however they got theirs corrected. This is a know problem to Jeep and they have a heaver replacement rotor that corrects the problem.
For what its worth I own a 1993 Jeep G.C. with 130,000 miles on it and have had no problems with it and it is still running strong.
Vaughn
1999 Intrigue 10809
Yahoo Message Number: 7883 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7883)
Just a note to add my $0.02.
Nanc and I tow our 2001 Jeep GC, it is our 3rd Jeep. It has 34K on the odometer and has been towed an additional 64K miles. It performs great! Lots of room(for a midsized SUV) We have only one problem with it. We have been rear ended three times (once at a stop sign and twice at stoplights - wonder why we left the Bay area?). We survived with minor injuries.
Yes, it is heaver than I'd like to pull at 4500+ lbs. The real reason we have this Jeep is something I hope everyone thinks of with their vehicles. On March 20, 2000 while I was stopped in traffic in my 2000 Jeep Cherokee I was rear ended by a careless person in a Ford F250 diesel pickup. She hit me doing 60+ mph and nearly paralyzed me permanently. When I was in the emergency room being treated for my injuries, my attending physician told me that my vehilce was the only reason I was alive. He told me that had I been driving the typical Bay area vehicle (high end cars, names omitted to avoid the car wars) he would have been fitting me for a permanent body bag. He told me he will only drive a Jeep due to his ER experiences.
So, be careful what you put between your delicate body and the other vehicles. You don't have to be in the wrong to be in an accident, you just have to be there...
I'll stick with my third problem free Jeep.
Regards,
Neil Tucker
Intrigue 11677
BJCatanzaro wrote:
Yahoo Message Number: 7885 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7885)
Please note: Starting in 2004 the rate has been increased to $0.03 to compensate for the weak dollar. GGG
We do not miss silicon valley either, but still have to put up with 80 and 680 for several miles when heading out.
Happy New Year to all.
David & Karen CA.
Yahoo Message Number: 7886 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7886)
Chuck,
How ndo you like the liberty.
I'm looking for a new toad.
I have an old Geo Metro now and folks are starting to laugh at me so its time for a change, the Metro is great on gas and with 3 cyls. it really helps to push the Intrigue up those hills.
Gary
Hope tp meet you, are you going to the March ralley? see you there
Yahoo Message Number: 7887 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7887)
Chuck,
But, you get the last laugh...at the bank with all that unspent money. I like the idea of a light vehicle going up the hills.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
Yahoo Message Number: 7889 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7889)
Ree
I tow a GMC Envoy with the rear air suspension which is the equivalent of the Chevy Trailblazer. It is a little larger than the Jeep with more interior room but not quite as capable off road, The highway ride is much superior though & most of my Jeep GC friends (which I have several) ride with us when we car tour.
Terry
Yahoo Message Number: 7890 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7890)
I friend has a new Jeep GC and it does not have as comfortable a ride as I would like. So I am still looking. Looks like it is coming down to the Envoy or TrailBlazer. But, I hope I can hold off for another year before getting it.
Ree
Yahoo Message Number: 7911 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7911)
Gary:
We are pleased with the Liberty. It has been essentially problem free and actually fun to drive. Be sure to get the V6 and 4x4. The gas mileage is a little better than the coach, but not much.
The Liberty can get pricey, by the time I was done it was over 31K, but the deals and rebates brought the price down considerably. In your case I would expect them to give you at least an additional dollar three eighty-nine for your Geo Metro!!
You should trade vintage old cheap toad stories with the guy who has the 1988 Escort.
We will be at the March CC Rally in Tucson and FMCA Rally in Albuquerque. I'll look for a Geo Metro pushing an Intrigue.
Chuck
Yahoo Message Number: 8504 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8504)
David & Karen;
A few questions on your TOAD.
My wife wants to use her 2003 Odyssey with the Magna.
What type/brand of towing gear would you recommend?
Steve & Dee OH.
1995 Magna 5220
Yahoo Message Number: 8509 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8509)
Hi Steve & Dee, As we have only used one type of tow bar we cannot make a recommendation based on comparison. We can only comment on how it works for us.
We have the Roadmaster 'Sterling' tow bar and Roadmaster tow bracket. We also installed a four inch drop to bring the height of the receiver closer to the height of the tow bar bracket on the Odyssey.
Over the past two years we have towed the Odyssey about eight thousand miles and as many of our trips are only three to five days we hook up and un hook many times. I always remove the cross bar from the tow bracket when we are not on the road and with that done there is not much evidence that the car is a TOAD except for the two round receivers protruding about three inches from the front skirt of the car.
It is necessary to cut the front skirt when installing the tow bar bracket. This will of course leave a couple of holes if the tow bar bracket were to be removed. When the time comes for us to part company with the Odyssey I will probably offer it for sale to the RV community and include the tow bar as part of the deal.
Installing the cross bar on the tow bracket is quite straight forward and easy after the first time. Attaching the tow bar is also easy once you get to know how close to park the TOAD to the back of the coach. With two people it is easier. Each arm of the Sterling has about twelve inches of travel between the stored and extended position so it is easy to adjust the length to allow the arm to be connected to the tow bracket. Once you start moving the arms will extend to the end of their travel and will automatically lock in that position.
We have had no problems with the tow bar. The only inconvenience occurs when the coach and TOAD are not on flat ground or not lined up in a straight line and you want to disconnect the tow bar. Under those conditions the pins connecting the tow bar arms to the tow bracket are frequently very difficult to remove. It is a good idea to have a hammer or mallet close to hand! This has happened to us about five times in the past two years so it is not a big deal unless you do not have the tools at hand to persuade the pins to let go.
Keeping the parts lubricated helps and I always have a pair of gloves available.
I would suggest that on your next visit to an RV park you walk around and talk to any owner that has a Sterling and see if they will demonstrate it for you. A picture is worth a thousand words and a demonstration better then a whole book.
Good luck with your quest.
David & Karen CA.
Yahoo Message Number: 8510 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8510)
Steve,
I'll second all that David said about the Sterling.
Great product
Easy to hook/unhook
If unlevel, you have to get it's attention (beat on it) If you need a drop-down extention, make sure your installer uses longer cables, to avoid binding (Daaaaa....) We towed our Envoy 31,000 miles last year, no problems.
Get a US Gear brake for the tow, you are all set.
Bill Harris
03 Allure 1st Ave 30912
Yahoo Message Number: 8511 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8511)
I also have the Sterling setup. I have never had to beat on the pins to remove them. If the pins are bound up and won't come out easily, have your assistant get in the toad and start the engine (helps with the power steering). Leave the toad in park and then begin to turn the steering wheel one way or the other. At some point you will see the tension on the tow bar relax and then you can pull the pins out.
If this doesn't happen while turning in one direction, then reverse and turn the steering wheel the other way. Works every time.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 26658 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26658)
We tow an '07 Chevy Tahoe 4 down and it does fine. Almost an Esclade, but not quite....LOL
Sue
05, 42' CC Allure quad slide #31254 See where we are---
http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=3792 (http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=3792)
Yahoo Message Number: 26663 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26663)
I think you will find that a Tahoe 4 wd has a neutral position while the Escalade is an AWD which means there is no switch to allow you to put the transfer case in neutral for towing. That is one of the problem when you go to the "higher end" vehicles such as the Caddy Escalade and GMC Denali line....they are All Wheel Drive, all the time and do not have a switch allowing the driver to chose between 4 WD- high and low, 2 WD, auto-AWD and neutral. I would suspect that an awd vehicle probably could be towed IF you install a transmission cooling pump.....IMHO easier to buy the Tahoe and have a little less luxury than in the Escalade...I think the power seat is a 6 way seat in the Tahoe and in the Escalade its probably 10 way seat.
bill & barb in the Poconos of PA, 1998 40' Country Coach Prevost
Yahoo Message Number: 26666 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26666)
Sue, I met a guy who worked in the Dallas plant building Escalades.
These vehicles are totally different from the Tahoes and Yukons.
They come down a different line and use totally different parts from suspension to the chassis. Even though they appear to be the same except for trim level I have been told that's not so.
John F
Yahoo Message Number: 26677 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26677)
I'm sure they are different being the top of the line. I just said that as a joke since the look a like. We sure like ours.
Sue
05, 42' CC Allure quad slide #31254 See where we are---
http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=3792 (http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=3792)
Yahoo Message Number: 26679 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26679)
Sue,
We are thinking of replacing our Jeep GC with an 07 Tahoe. Do you use an auxiliary brake system on the Tahoe and if you do would you share what it is?
Thank You,
John Kearsing
05 Intrigue Ovation #11889
03 Jeep GC
Yahoo Message Number: 26686 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26686)
Hi John,
We use a Break Buddy. When we bought it, that was the only one of it's kind out there. Now, I see by adds in the RV magazines, there are a few of that same type. It has worked well and easy to move to another vehicle. We started with a Saturn, then the Ford Explorer, now the Tahoe.
Our Break Buddy quit working a while back and we called the company. They sent us a loaner and we used the same box and sent ours to them for repair. It was a month or 2 out of it's 3 year warranty, but they fixed it at no charge. Once it was done, they sent it back to us and we returned the loaner. They had even sent a return postage sticker. Only costs us the shipment of ours to be fixed. All done quite fast and our repaired one has worked well ever since. They said the BB does better if it is hooked to a 12v receptacle directly coming from the battery, so they sent us one and Bob installed it.
To be honest, I'm not sure just how much it really helps in stopping. IMHO that Tahoe (or more so, the little Saturn) isn't going to stop that 55,000 lb. rig. But....since more states say you need some type of breaking system, we have it. If it helps, even a little bit, then it is worth it. And if you were ever in an accident, that is one of the first things they are going to look at...do you have an aux. breaking system. So we have always used it.
We've been very happy with our Tahoe. It is a V8, but once you get up to speed, it will only use 4 cylinders, which helps with the mpg.
Sue
05, 42' CC Allure quad slide #31254 See where we are---
http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=3792 (http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=3792)
Yahoo Message Number: 26707 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26707)
Sue, Thank you for your response
Evelyn
07 42' Allure 470 31449
Yahoo Message Number: 26727 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26727)
Sue,
Thanks for sharing the information on Brake Buddy, especially their service levels. I agree about not being sure how much the braking system helps, some I am sure.
We have two kids who are state troopers and they have warned me that you do not want to get in an accident and not have a braking system if that state requires it, even if you are not at fault.
Looking forward to shopping for a new Tahoe.
Again thanks,
John Kearsing
05 Intrigue Ovation #11889
03 Jeep GC
Yahoo Message Number: 26733 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26733)
Enjoy hunting. We purchased our Tahoe in Hamilton, Mt. Our SIL is the sales manager so when we were back there this summer and new the Explorer was on the way out, we went shopping. We are very happy with it.
Sue
'05, 42' Allure, quad slide, #31254