Yahoo Message Number: 103988 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/103988)
A message from Ron Lee:
A personal note to our friends,
As we enter this holiday season here at Country Coach, we also enter a season of change. As most of you know, I have spent most of my adult life growing, nurturing and eventually rescuing the Country Coach brand that I love. I am very proud of what Country Coach came to represent, but I am even more proud of work the core group I assembled after purchasing the intellectual property of Country Coach has accomplished. From the start my goals were to resurrect Country Coach in the spirit in which it was created - to produce the finest motor coaches available, to bring economic vitality and growth to Junction City and to develop stable jobs for our employees.
As you know, we have continued to work on the next generation of Country Coach product in the design and prototype stage and to transfer that work to reality of a product, actual production requires much more. To do that I needed to find the right resources to augment and grow what we have started. To that end, I have been working diligently for the past two years. Of the options I had to choose from I have made what I consider the very best choice for Country Coach for both service and production. I am pleased to announce that, effective today, I have sold the Country Coach Campus and intellectual property to Winnebago Industries. I have worked with Winnebago to ensure that Country Coach moves forward and work will begin in earnest to assemble the infrastructure that will lead to Country Coach production. Winnebago will also bring production of some of its current diesel motorhome offerings to Junction City. Please note that future Country Coach products will not be rebranded Winnebagos, but products specifically designed and built to the exacting performance, amenity and standard levels that have always defined Country Coach. Obviously this process will take time but everyone involved is committed to making Country Coach the premier motorcoach offering available.
I made this decision because I believe that Winnebago is the best fit for Country Coach and that their, culture, dedication to design and build quality closely mirrors the standards I have set. This transition includes a change for me also as I will step down from the day to day operations. But rest assured, I intend to be the leading Country Coach brand enthusiast so you can expect to see and hear from Cookie and I from time to time as we travel around the country in our 2016 Country Coach Allure.
As I write this, I am recalling designing the first Country Camper Class A, I used a lower front from a Winnebago Class A to mock it up, we have come full circle.
Until the next time we meet!!
Ron Lee
Yahoo Message Number: 103991 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/103991)
Commented about this on IRV2 CC too...
Wishing all at CC the best on this transition. I see it as a positive for Junction City for sure. Hoping Winnebago will add back more of the old CC gang, and let them do their thing. Not do as Monaco did, making Holiday Rambler and Beaver basically rebranded Monaco's towards the later years.
I also really appreciated Ron taking on this responsibility, and giving it the good fight to try and pull it off as a stand alone CC company. For sure understand this move, and wish the Mr and Mrs Lee nothing but good travels and a relaxed life ahead:)!
Best to all at CC, and Junction City.
Looking forward to working with a CC owned by Winnebago - and best of profitable fortunes for them:)!
Best to all my fellow CC owners - you are a great bunch - heck, even former CC owners are OK too:)!
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 104009 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104009)
Hi Fellow Country Coachers!
I was surprised to read the comments and changes from Ron Lee. I am curious as to how you forum-folks feel about these changes? Disappointed? Hopeful? Encouraged? Would appreciate comments from you too, Lee. What's the general consensus about this move? Thanks for all input!
Sue Shuckhart 51672
2006 Inspire 360
Yahoo Message Number: 104010 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104010)
I'm encouraged. To me it means Country Coach will live. I think our coaches will hold value better.
Britt
2004 Intrigue 11836
www.cojobluegrass.com
Yahoo Message Number: 104011 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104011)
I think we will have to wait and see. A news release in Forest City saying that Winnie purchased facilities in Junction City to enhance their production made no mention of Country Coach. We could end up with a real orphan for sure.
Don
'02 Intrigue 11427
Yahoo Message Number: 104012 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104012)
Last paragraph is about the purchase of the intellectual property and the intention to revive the Country Coach line.
Winnebago Industries Announces West Coast Production Facility Expansion Production of Select Class A Diesel Motorhomes to Transition to West Coast Facility FOREST CITY, IA -- ( Marketwired ) -- 12/01/15 -- Winnebago Industries, Inc.(NYSE: WGO), a leading United States recreation vehicle manufacturer, announced today its purchase of motorhome production facilities and equipment in Junction City, Oregon . In total, the investment to support this expansion is estimated to be between $15-20 million , including land, buildings, necessary modifications, production equipment and technology infrastructure.
Winnebago plans to move production of select diesel products to the 200,000 square-foot facilities, with the transition estimated to be complete sometime in the second half of calendar 2017. Initially, by moving the production of diesel products to the Junction City facility, Winnebago expects to increase its production of Class A gas and Class C motorhomes at the company's headquarters in Forest City, Iowa . In addition, as demand for Winnebago's diesel products increases, the Junction City facility will allow for increased production of diesel products.
"An increase in consumer demand for our motorhomes taxed the Forest City facility's ability to keep up and caused us to look elsewhere to find a location that had sufficient labor capacity to meet those demands," said Vice President of Sales and Product Management Scott Degnan . "We are pleased to be expanding our operations and look forward to the increased production and service presence this new facility will provide on the west coast. We would also like to express our thanks to Ron Lee , the former owner of the facilities, for providing us with this opportunity." "This purchase is part of Winnebago's ongoing strategy to further solidify the company as a leader in the RV industry for years to come," Degnan continued. "As part of the facility purchase, Winnebago also acquired the intellectual property rights associated with Country Coach and we intend to revive that brand as part of the planned use of the new facility." In addition, Winnebago entered into an agreement on November 18, 2015 , with the Lee Joint Trust to purchase property adjacent to the facility mentioned above. This property was also part of the Country Coach operation in the past. Scott Folkers , Vice President and General Counsel said, "We have begun our due diligence evaluation of the property and hope to have that completed in the near future. We anticipate using this property to provide ongoing customer service to Country Coach owners, as well as providing service to Winnebago owners." As others have said will have to see what happens, manufacturing anything is expensive and that has been a challenge for Ron the last few years. Maybe the size of Winnie wil help that out especially if they can spread the cost over a broader product line with more volume. Figure even Marathon closed their factory here in So. Cal so even the wealthy have cut back.
Ray
Yahoo Message Number: 104013 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104013)
(http://www.rvbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/WinnebagoIND_red-TM-300x43.jpg) (http://www.rvbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/WinnebagoIND_red-TM.jpg)Winnebago Industries Inc. announced its purchase of motorhome production facilities and equipment in Junction City, Ore., which formerly housed Country Coach Inc.
In total, the investment to support the expansion is estimated to be between $15-20 million, including land, buildings, necessary modifications, production equipment and technology infrastructure.
According to a press release, Winnebago plans to move production of select diesel products to the 200,000 square-foot facilities, with the transition estimated to be complete sometime in the second half of calendar 2017. Initially, by moving the production of diesel products to the Junction City facility, Winnebago expects to increase its production of Class A gas and Class C motorhomes at the company's headquarters in Forest City, Iowa. In addition, as demand for Winnebago's diesel products increases, the Junction City facility will allow for increased production of diesel products.
"An increase in consumer demand for our motorhomes taxed the Forest City facility's ability to keep up and caused us to look elsewhere to find a location that had sufficient labor capacity to meet those demands," said Vice President of Sales and Product Management Scott Degnan. "We are pleased to be expanding our operations and look forward to the increased production and service presence this new facility will provide on the west coast. We would also like to express our thanks to Ron Lee, the former owner of the facilities, for providing us with this opportunity." "This purchase is part of Winnebago's ongoing strategy to further solidify the company as a leader in the RV industry for years to come," Degnan continued. "As part of the facility purchase, Winnebago also acquired the intellectual property rights associated with Country Coach and we intend to revive that brand as part of the planned use of the new facility." In addition, Winnebago entered into an agreement on Nov. 18 with the Lee Joint Trust to purchase property adjacent to the Junction City facility. This property was also part of the Country Coach operation in the past.
Scott Folkers, vice president and general counsel noted, "We have begun our due diligence evaluation of the property and hope to have that completed in the near future. We anticipate using this property to provide ongoing customer service to Country Coach owners, as well as providing service to Winnebago owners."
Al
2006 Allure 31440
Yahoo Message Number: 104014 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104014)
I was initially excited that the company HQ will now be 2+1/2 hours from my home rather than 3-4 days away, but from the press release it sounds like all service and related things for Country Coach will still be in Oregon (which does make sense).
I'll remain in the "wait and see" camp I suppose as far as what will happen to the CC brand and future availability of parts & information. I have had much better luck in that regard with Kevin Waite than with CC anyway, and I assume it will remain that way.
Mark M
1998 Intrigue #10661
Yahoo Message Number: 104015 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104015)
I am encouraged when any business expands and brings more job opportunity's especially when its in our country. It was really unrealistic to think Ron could continue to operate solely on parts and service especially with the additional very customer friendly competition. I remain hopeful they will be successful and am confident enough that I bought a few shares this morning.
Rod
Yahoo Message Number: 104016 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104016)
I continue to believe in the service experiences received at Oregon Motor Coach, or from Kevin Waite and Bob Vinson. Still, I wish the current CC employees well. Perhaps there will be a proverbial "shot in the arm" for Junction City in the new arrangement. Surely JC could use a boost. It still needs a really good restaurant (the old Oregon Electric depot doesn't cut it) and the café, bakery and deli on 6th street is sorely missed).
Ken
2004 Allure #31035
P.S. I'm wondering if anyone has devined a CC method of assigning coach numbers.
Yahoo Message Number: 104017 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104017)
After several years as a "used to be" brand of premium RV's, I am personally delighted with the idea that we will live again. As to what the new Country Coaches will be, I hope the brand's legacy will guide the new owners as to the quality and price point of future production units. The "market" will decide after that. I've never felt apologetic for the coach we've owned and travelled in for the past 12 years. The future looks good. Jeff Thurston03/04 Intrigue 42 Ovation 116302013 Equinox AWD toad.
Yahoo Message Number: 104019 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104019)
I think anyone who had visited the JC facility was probably not surprised at this development. Ron was keeping things going on a wing and prayer primarily because he didn't want to have all that property sitting vacant and lose it to taxes. So this is a good deal for him... and probably a good deal for most of the fine folks who worked there as they will now have an industry giant once again issuing their paychecks. It is true that Monaco and HR are simply rebranded Winnebago's. We saw them at an RV show a year ago and remarked how they were identical except for the nameplate. Most likely CC brand will go the same route. The real question is whether the industry will support any efforts from Winnebago to produce a product line towards the very high end of diesel coaches in terms of quality and price or whether it will be more of a midline coach like the Winnebago's
Joseph Burkle
2010 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43QRP
43' quad slide tag axle ISL 425 HP pusher
formerly:
2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition
Wind-seeker.com
Yahoo Message Number: 104022 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104022)
Very well said! Thank you. We are really enjoying reading all of the various points of view on this sale to Winnebago. We owned a Winnebago Ultimate Advantage for a few years, (that was their 2nd highest priced one at that time) and traded at Lazy Days when they were replacing the driver's side mirror which had fallen off on the interstate in GA on the way from MN to FL ten years ago in March of 2006. When Mike saw how the mirror had been installed and reinstalled, both very poorly done, and the fact that we always had dirt coming into the coach from a gap under the bedroom floor where it should have been attached to the outer wall. This experience made us thrilled to own our CC Inspire, and we still are, 51784, 2006, over 100,000 miles. It's so well made even though there are of course things that we all on this blog know we have to deal with and are still grateful for our CC coaches. We too hope that Winnebago will make the CC coaches to the CC level. And as business people, we also see that Winnebago is apparently thriving in a market that has ups and downs, so perhaps the new CC coaches will be even better. We are so grateful for the wonderful people who take the time to help others on this blog. Thank you all.
Mary and Mike Frederick
06 Inspire 51784
Yahoo Message Number: 104028 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104028)
So much has recently happened related to the Lees and their relationship to Country Coach. It seems apparent that the culture fostered by the Lee Family may fade, unless Winnebago tries to maintain it along with the characteristics and features that made Country Coach unique. However you look at it, the loss of the Lees in a significantly active role to our brand is a loss for all of us. What the future holds for Country Coach and the impact on we owners remains to be seen. Contrary to an earlier comment that the Winnebago press release makes no mention of Country Coach, CC is mentioned at least twice in prominent and encouraging ways, as follows in two quotes:
"?Winnebago also acquired the intellectual property rights associated with Country Coach and we intend to revive that brand as part of the planned use of the new facility."
"We anticipate using this property to provide ongoing customer service to Country Coach owners, as well as providing service to Winnebago owners."
These comments are encouraging. I'm assuming that the Kevin Waites, Eric Olstroms, Butch Williams, etc. across the country will continue to provide us great service nationally. Unknown right now is how the relationship of Winnebago to these folks will change post-sale to Winnebago. After all Winnebago now controls all the intellectual property rights, spare parts, molds, etc. We shall see about all of this. My gut tells me to be optimistic.
Lee (leozbrowski@...)President, CCI2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153CAT C-13
Yahoo Message Number: 104030 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104030)
There was just no way that Ron Lee was going raise sufficient money to get back into the manufacturing of high end coaches and still control the enterprise. He simply had to find a deep pockets buyer who was interested in keeping his venture going. It was very logical that he would look at investors who were already in the business, e.g. Winnegago.
I hope, as do we all, that Winnegago will have an interest in continuing the CC line-up of coaches, but I'm not terribly sanguine that they will. Only time will tell. Hopefully, they will also still be willing to produce replacement parts specific to CC's. An example that comes to mind of something similar is Ford's disastrous purchase of Jaguar a number of years ago. The product that they began to produce under the Jag name was absolute junk and they finally sold the whole thing to Tata. Let's hope for a better outcome here.
Dave Glen
'06 Magna 6591
Yahoo Message Number: 104034 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104034)
Hey Joe,
Time will surely tell. I guess people have forgotten National RV and the Country Coach Mystique. That was a rebadged National product...I called it the CC Mistake.
Yahoo Message Number: 104036 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104036)
I hope the coaches aren't cheapened I was hoping a higher end coach company bought it but we have to give it a chance and hope for the best. We love the quality of our coach and hope another National event doesn't happen.
Hoping for the best
Intrigue 2000
Yahoo Message Number: 104040 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104040)
Actually, current Monaco's and HR's are rebranded Fleetwood products. And, quality is comparably bad. I really doubt that Winnebago will worry about a high end niche brand like CC....they make their money on volume (with better than average quality in my opinion). What they wanted was relatively cheap land, access to experienced labor, and perhaps reduced cost of shipping product to the west coast. The intellectual property...maybe not so much.
Hope I'm wrong. I'd love to be able to think of buying a 201x CC at some time in the future with confidence that it would have the quality of our current coaches.
Dave Glen
'06 Magna 6591
Yahoo Message Number: 104041 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104041)
I think every one of us would like to dream of a new CC with all the bells and whistles. We have an 06 Intrigue that we have customized to our preferences, but as things stand with the market today, were our Intrigue for some reason be damaged beyond repair, we would have to really, seriously consider a Foretravel Realm as a replacement. We will always be CC fans and love the one we have, but I doubt we would be happy or content with a Winnebago built Country Coach.
S. Brandt, 06 Intrigue, 11964
Yahoo Message Number: 104042 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104042)
Why try to guess or add spin to the sale of CC to Winnebago. I just simply read Ron Lee's letter carefully and he says what is going to happen to the best of his knowledge. I have met him and he passed on a lot of his wishes for the future of Country Coach to my wife and I. Ron, in my opinion, has always wanted to get the factory back to turning out new coaches. This is his way of doing that. He is quite specific in his letter about the CC line being separate from Winnebago. In my opinion Country Coach is a very good addition to Winnebago Industries. Tiffin and Newmar, WGO's biggest competitors have lines of diesel pushers that go higher end than Winnebago and CC adds that. The other obvious advantage is that they now have the only large scale motorhome maker in the huge west coast market. Not too long ago there was Fleetwood, National, Alpine, Monaco, Beaver, Alfa, and Country Coach all in the west. Now there is Winnebago/Country Coach.
I am optimistic that the two combined companies will lead to something quite a bit better than what was the case three days ago.
Why not wait to see the outcome before we make all the negative comments about what may happen. I have always thought Winnebago was a financially sound maker of innovative RVs. I think the Country Coach line will be improved by it's ownership by Winnebago. I bought a few hundred shares of Winnebago an hour after I got Ron's email because I think the purchase is good business.
Bob & Barbara
2002 Affinity 42'
Yahoo Message Number: 104043 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104043)
On 12/3/2015 4:21 PM, David Glen dmglen@... (dmglen@...) [Country-Coach-Owners] wrote:
I have to put in with this argument. This is America, after all, where if quality is not quantifiable, it is worthless.
Ken, 2004 Allure #31035
I hope we all realize that we got in on a magnificent segment of RV history by buying our CCs (note the absence of an apostrophe) when we did.
--
Horus also was not divine.
Yahoo Message Number: 104046 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104046)
If any of you are familiar with the Hifi industry you know the name of Mcintosh Labs. They have had their trials and tribulations, too. They are a High end product with a more envious position and history than CC had ever hoped for. Founded after WWII They were bought out by Clarion a Japanese company in the 90's , sold to a conglomerate, including Marantz, and Denon in the 2000's and are now belong to a European group from Italy., including Sonus and Audio research. Each time there was a change there was fear of no more support or service or new products, but with all the trials and tribulations Mcintosh has come out stronger with more superior products with each evolution. But there is a difference. Mcintosh in each case has had a strong personable leader in Binghamton, New York, who not only has a strong engineering and design back ground, but good business since. Mac had their technical issues always being one step behind the Japanese in Home Theatre development, but like Apple they would rather do it right than try to lead with compromised designs. They have never built the most expensive products, but the best products for the long hall. Amplifiers that cost $444.00 back in the 60's are now worth $10,000. Even though the current versions can be bought for $4000.00 preowned with superior specifications and sound quality. We should be so lucky without CC's. All the Mac original units, unless for display only, have to be almost totally rebuilt with new resistors, capacitors and occasionally transformers. Tubes like tires and belts are always in need of replacement. And imagine building a product where you have to depend on limited production from the Chinese and Russians for tubes.
So there can be a success story out there, its happening right now. Its a shame there wasn't someone like Doug Rutherford, Jim Cooley or Pat Mason, to step in before the Howards came along to continue the chain of leadership that Mcintosh has been able to keep with Charlie Randall. TWI 2004 Intrigue. 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 104040 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104040)
Actually, current Monaco's and HR's are rebranded Fleetwood products. And, quality is comparably bad. I really doubt that Winnebago will worry about a high end niche brand like CC....they make their money on volume (with better than average quality in my opinion). What they wanted was relatively cheap land, access to experienced labor, and perhaps reduced cost of shipping product to the west coast. The intellectual property...maybe not so much.
Hope I'm wrong. I'd love to be able to think of buying a 201x CC at some time in the future with confidence that it would have the quality of our current coaches.
Dave Glen
'06 Magna 6591
Yahoo Message Number: 104041 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104041)
I think every one of us would like to dream of a new CC with all the bells and whistles. We have an 06 Intrigue that we have customized to our preferences, but as things stand with the market today, were our Intrigue for some reason be damaged beyond repair, we would have to really, seriously consider a Foretravel Realm as a replacement. We will always be CC fans and love the one we have, but I doubt we would be happy or content with a Winnebago built Country Coach.
S. Brandt, 06 Intrigue, 11964
Yahoo Message Number: 104042 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104042)
Why try to guess or add spin to the sale of CC to Winnebago. I just simply read Ron Lee's letter carefully and he says what is going to happen to the best of his knowledge. I have met him and he passed on a lot of his wishes for the future of Country Coach to my wife and I. Ron, in my opinion, has always wanted to get the factory back to turning out new coaches. This is his way of doing that. He is quite specific in his letter about the CC line being separate from Winnebago. In my opinion Country Coach is a very good addition to Winnebago Industries. Tiffin and Newmar, WGO's biggest competitors have lines of diesel pushers that go higher end than Winnebago and CC adds that. The other obvious advantage is that they now have the only large scale motorhome maker in the huge west coast market. Not too long ago there was Fleetwood, National, Alpine, Monaco, Beaver, Alfa, and Country Coach all in the west. Now there is Winnebago/Country Coach.
I am optimistic that the two combined companies will lead to something quite a bit better than what was the case three days ago.
Why not wait to see the outcome before we make all the negative comments about what may happen. I have always thought Winnebago was a financially sound maker of innovative RVs. I think the Country Coach line will be improved by it's ownership by Winnebago. I bought a few hundred shares of Winnebago an hour after I got Ron's email because I think the purchase is good business.
Bob & Barbara
2002 Affinity 42'
Yahoo Message Number: 104043 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104043)
On 12/3/2015 4:21 PM, David Glen dmglen@... (dmglen@...) [Country-Coach-Owners] wrote:
I have to put in with this argument. This is America, after all, where if quality is not quantifiable, it is worthless.
Ken, 2004 Allure #31035
I hope we all realize that we got in on a magnificent segment of RV history by buying our CCs (note the absence of an apostrophe) when we did.
--
Horus also was not divine.
Yahoo Message Number: 104046 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/104046)
If any of you are familiar with the Hifi industry you know the name of Mcintosh Labs. They have had their trials and tribulations, too. They are a High end product with a more envious position and history than CC had ever hoped for. Founded after WWII They were bought out by Clarion a Japanese company in the 90's , sold to a conglomerate, including Marantz, and Denon in the 2000's and are now belong to a European group from Italy., including Sonus and Audio research. Each time there was a change there was fear of no more support or service or new products, but with all the trials and tribulations Mcintosh has come out stronger with more superior products with each evolution. But there is a difference. Mcintosh in each case has had a strong personable leader in Binghamton, New York, who not only has a strong engineering and design back ground, but good business since. Mac had their technical issues always being one step behind the Japanese in Home Theatre development, but like Apple they would rather do it right than try to lead with compromised designs. They have never built the most expensive products, but the best products for the long hall. Amplifiers that cost $444.00 back in the 60's are now worth $10,000. Even though the current versions can be bought for $4000.00 preowned with superior specifications and sound quality. We should be so lucky without CC's. All the Mac original units, unless for display only, have to be almost totally rebuilt with new resistors, capacitors and occasionally transformers. Tubes like tires and belts are always in need of replacement. And imagine building a product where you have to depend on limited production from the Chinese and Russians for tubes.
So there can be a success story out there, its happening right now. Its a shame there wasn't someone like Doug Rutherford, Jim Cooley or Pat Mason, to step in before the Howards came along to continue the chain of leadership that Mcintosh has been able to keep with Charlie Randall. TWI 2004 Intrigue. 11731