Yahoo Message Number: 8649 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8649)
Can anyone tell me when CC went with the full body paint and graphics? Specifically the Intrigue, Magna and Affinity lines would be helpful.
John
Atlanta
Yahoo Message Number: 8650 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8650)
John,
I think the Intrigue/Allure went to full body paint with the 2001 models but there may be a catch. CC has a habit of introducing changes during a model year. Most of these changes are minor running changes but sometimes they really make a big switch. Case in point is the IFS introduction on the Intrigue mid way between 2000 model year and more recently the introduction and demise of the First Avenue editions.
t is possible the introduction of full body paint occurred as a running change rather then a model year change. Maybe Damon can confirm for you.
David & Karen CA.
2000 Intrigue 11062
40 ft Single slide. PT
2002 Odyssey TOAD
Yahoo Message Number: 8654 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8654)
John,
David is usually accurate though characteristically verbose. Talk a look at the Country Coach web site to view many of the available paint options.
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Dunwoody, GA
Yahoo Message Number: 8655 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8655)
Just kidding, David! J
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Yahoo Message Number: 8656 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8656)
Make that "take" a look and here's the link:
http://www.countrycoach.com/ (http://www.countrycoach.com/)
Yahoo Message Number: 8658 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8658)
Damon e-mailed me and said that CC changed to full body paint in 2002. Thanks all your responses.
John - Atlanta
Yahoo Message Number: 8683 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8683)
What did they do differently before 2002 models?
Thanks
Yahoo Message Number: 8692 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8692)
Huh? I went throught the factory in 1998, I believe it was in September. All coaches were then being painted complete. I was particuarly inpressed with how they polished the clear coat to remove any runs.
My 99 Intrigue has full body paint.
Larry
Intrigue 10762
Yahoo Message Number: 8695 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8695)
I think they use the Term "Full Body Paint" to mean they are now painted with all of the "Zippy" Color schemes to compete with the fancy paint jobs of the compettion!! I know years ago I thought CC had some pretty dull color schemes, that did not match their other qualities. I prefer my non-so stand-out-ish color on my '01. I do not need to the the attraction of the campground. The quality is inside, that's all that counts for me....
Lee in Portland '01 Intrigue with the common paint scheme of many, many others in '99 thru '01 model years.....
Yahoo Message Number: 8696 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8696)
The very latest paint jobs has some "Zippy" paint that changes color depending where you stand. From one angle it looks green, then purple, etc.
I wonder if you plug it in at night to charge it up?
Chuck Penque
03 Intrigue 11673
Yahoo Message Number: 8698 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8698)
Damon wrote this:
My definition of full body paint is when the entire coach is painted a color, and this started in 2002 with Country Coach.
Prior to that this is what happened. CC has always painted there graphics. Nothing they built ever had "tape stripes". Prior to 2002, Country Coach would paint graphic colors (stripes) on the fiberglass gel coat, then clear the paint and gel coat with one exception--the Allure. The Allure model had painted graphics, and only the graphics were clear coated from inception and thru the 1998 model year. In 1999 the Allure was painted like the rest of the models being that the gel coat and graphics were clear coated.
Confused yet?
Basically prior to 2002 all there coachs were either a bone, white, or grey gel coat with painted stripes. In 2002 and till today all models are built with a black gel coat and the entire coach is painted.
Yahoo Message Number: 8700 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8700)
Wish I had known all this when I bought my 98 Allure, 30255, I still have Intrigue and Allure literature from back then and the fine print I missed was small then. Thats the main reason, besides handling (IFS) we bought a new Ovation. TWI 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 27351 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27351)
We recently discovered that our 2002 Allure Crown Point, bone colored coach, which we ordered new in 2001 and picked up at the factory was not "painted". It does have clear coat but indications are that the clear coat will deteriorate over time. Apparently all the 2002 Allures, in other colors, received full body paint AND clear coat.
Any opinions from the group concerning this issue? Imput would be greatly appreciated.
Gary,
2002 Allure, 30747
Yahoo Message Number: 27354 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27354)
Gary,
I think you will find that the bone color is in the gel coat. Just the accent colors are painted. The whole coach is then clear coated.
This is the way my '02 Intrigue in bone is done.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 27355 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27355)
If the clear coating is applied directly to the gelcoat, then yes there will be an issue. To fix my 98 Allure with no clear coat CC want to prep the gelcoat surface, paint the exposed gelcoat the bone color as original and then clearcoat, cut buff etc. The estimate was $10,000 plus in 2003, that's when I buffed and polished the gelcoat with Mequires boat products and ordered a new coach, with full body paint. I had always been able to bring the front back to original, the sides 80% back, but the rear cap was very dissappointing. It was just the tip of the iceberg. I had seen and fallen for a 42' Intrigue Ovation with three slide and ended up with a 04 unit. TWI 11731 2004 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 27485 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27485)
Thanks for the reply Don and TWI.
Looking back it appears I was not very clear in my initial question.
CC paint dept recently told me there was no bone colored paint on my coach, only Gelcoat with Clearcoat on top of that. The bay doors, being aluminium were painted. Now the upper fiberglass portion of the coach is starting to yellow. We have checked with several paint shops (and CC) and were told that this deterioration will continue and become even more unattractive.
The depressing part is that all the other 2002 Allures, other than bone colored, were given a full body paint in addition to Gelcoat and Clearcoat. Of course they all came with the same MSRP. Nowhere in any brochure, discussion with sales reps, at least four factory tours while coach was in production or during the PDI at CC in Junction City was any mention made that a very expensive paint job was not on our coach.
I am wondering if there are other 2002 Allure coaches out there with the same color and lack of paint and are starting to deteriorate and what they have done if anything, to correct it. Or, is anyone even aware they weren't painted?
We have always liked the color (can't say paint job anymore) of our coach and have received many compliments on it. Still love the coach, the ride, the handling, etc, etc, etc.
Bottom line, CC now states the diffence between clearcoat and full body paint was semantic.
I have done some research and that does not appear to be the case. It appears clearcoat does not react well with fiberglass and needs paint between gelcoat/fiberglass and the clearcoat. It appears there has been misrepresentation by Country Coach.
Sorry for the long post but I am hoping somebody in the group can point me to a source concerning this matter and I can do some intelligent follow up. I have gotten several good tips from this forum from my past lurking. We do intend to follow up with CC on this problem.
Thanks for any comments or further imput anyone may have.
Just a final thought. Why didn't CC paint the bone colored coaches in '02?
Gary
2002 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 27486 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27486)
Hi Gary,
I have covered this subject in the past addressing the roof.
All fiberglass must have a coating over the fiberglass that blocks the sun's uv - this is achieved by use of titanium dioxide(TiO2) in the coating.
If sun light is getting to the fiberglass, it might be the fiberglass is rotting(decomposing, disintregating) and thus causing the discoloration. An independent evaluation should be conducted to be sure. Does the gelcoat have the TiO2? Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 27487 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27487)
Just a note: Titanium Dioxide (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide) is the pigment that makes white paint white.
Russ
Yahoo Message Number: 27489 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27489)
Have you ever been to the factory with the coach for Home Comming , repairs, a factory tour, maybe an FMCA Int'l rally? It would help if you have a personnal speaking relashionship with a member of upper management. Then you could ask with a please and thank you about your situation. They have a review board that looks at issues out of warranty and if you have somehome who can present your issue in a positive and not demanding light, you might be suprised at the results. Larry Sherwood and Doug Rutherford among others have gone the extra mile for me, and for that reason alone I feel CC is the Best. TOM/CAROL 2004 iNTRIGUE 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 27490 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27490)
Russ,
Not sure what your link was supposed to show...Here is a quote from that site:
Titanium dioxide is the most widely used white pigment because of its brightness and very high refractive index (n=2.4), in which it is surpassed only by a few other materials. When deposited as a thin film, its refractive index and color make it an excellent reflective optical coating for dielectric mirrors.
So can one assume that Fred's statements are accurate ??
Michael
01' Intrigue #11224
Yahoo Message Number: 27491 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27491)
Michael,
You are right..I guess I was a bit unclear. What I was trying to say was that Titanium dioxide is actually the pigment in paint. We were in the exterior coating business for a 10 years. The higher the concentration of titanium dioxide the better the protection from UV for the covered material. I agree with Fred 100%.
I, for one, am surprised that the roofs of our motorhomes are not "painted" and sorry to hear that a clear coat was used instead of "full body paint" for some of our forum members..
Russ
05 Intrigue
11883
Yahoo Message Number: 27492 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27492)
One more thought. It is surprising that the under carriage is covered with an undercoat, but the roofs are left bare. No logic to this in my book. The sun can be almost as distructive as road salt etc.
"not to get back into the roof subject again"..
I'm also surprised that CCI production values would allow "just" a clear coat on any coach of our quality.
Russ
05 Intrigue
11883
Yahoo Message Number: 27496 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27496)
Just wondering with all the recent posts on paint issues why our coach which is a 98 and of course "bone colored" doesn't seem to have any problems? Is the problem just so hard to recognize that some owners don't know they have a problem or what? Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 27500 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27500)
Thanks Russ.
I was wondering. I had some work done a year or so ago and had the roof painted, now I can rest in peace that I'm ok and the money was well spent.
The Paint Department said I would not have to worry about the roof for quite some time.
Michael
01' Intrigue #11224
Yahoo Message Number: 27503 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27503)
Our 95 has had the cap clearcoat peel off in stages. The cure is to paint the gel a bone color and then apply clear coat. The damage is most obvious from the ground when looking at the brow over the windshield.
Dean
95 Magna #5280
Yahoo Message Number: 27523 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27523)
We did attend the Home Coming in June in Eugene, took the factory tour.
Discussed this with Larry Sherwood, Doug Rutherford and personnel in the CC Paint Department all in a very friendly, open manner. Doug mentioned the Policy Review Panel and we submitted our concerns. The reply was short and not helpful stating "...inspection of the paint shows it to be within our performance expectations...". They had already admitted there was no paint so don't know what paint was inspected. We did take the coach to 6th St where it was looked at by all the above. It was signed Country Coach Policy Review Panel. Have no idea who is on the Panel. Felt like we got the bum's rush.
Gary, 2002 Allure, 30747
Yahoo Message Number: 27527 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27527)
Just a reminder. In the fall of 2004, we had a session on paint that covered this topic.
In my opinion: CC does a excellent job on the sides of the coaches, but has failed on the roofs.
1. UV degradation, gelcoat is exposed to a high level of UV with just a clearcoat. Clearcoat only prevents about 5% of the Uv from reaching the gelcoat. Over time, the UV breaks down the polyester gelcoat, (chalks) Just like wiping your hand over old house paint. You get a chalky, dust from the surface. This is extremely moisture sensitive. Over time the bond between the clearcoat and the gelcoat is lost, thus the onset of peeling. The peeling is cause by a.) loss of adhesion, b.) stress caused by expansion and contraction due to temperature.
Like Dean, I have a 95 Magna. It has a cream color top. I ended up a single edge razor blade and easily removed all the clearcoat from the top. With lots of good surface prep and a two component acrylic urethane cream topcoat, I restored it back to better than original condition, which will never peel again.
Sooo, the problem has been going on for sometime. If CC is now doing full roof painting, great, if their still using a clearcoat, dumb, really dumb. As for those with coaches less than 5 years old, I think you need to get into a serious discussion with CC about roof peeling and lawsuits. Just my opinion.
I've added a before and after picture of my beasts roof.
Steve B.
95 Magna 5220
Senior Chemist, SSPC Protective Coatings Specialist
Yahoo Message Number: 27546 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27546)
Steve,
Our 05 Magna, our 01 Magna, and our 2000 intrigue were all just unpainted fiberglass on which I applied a coating of 303 every 3 months. Never had a problem with chaulking or the clear coat coming off. I believe the owners manual says the roof needs to be treated with a UV product on a regular basis. I don't know of another brand that paints their roof but maybe some one can answer that question. I don't know what kind of law suit you could have because CC never tells anyone the roof is painted and it is common knowledge that you need to treat the roof regularly. It is discussed on this site every 3 months.
Bill g. 2005 Magna #6425
Yahoo Message Number: 27552 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27552)
Hey Bill;
Your doing the right thing by protecting the surface. The 303 seals the clearcoat and contains UV absorbers. This greatly diminishes the effects of UV and atmospheric contaminates.
My view on roofs: If your going to spend "X" amount of dollars on a coach, then why don't they do the job right. Clear coats do protect the surface and give you a glossy appearance, but they do very little to prevent the effects of UV radiation on the surface. A pigmented coatings does prevent the penetration of UV radiation. An stops the chalking of the polyester gelcoat used in make the fiberglass. It takes a certain amount of energy (UV radiation) to break the chemical bonds in the polyester. Over time, as the number bonds are broken, the surface has a whiting/chalk look and feel. This is the polyester degradation caused by the UV radiation. This residue is very sensitive to moisture, also causes a loss of adhesion of the clear coat. With the loss of adhesion and internal stresses caused by temperature expansion and contraction, the clear coat starts to crack, thus leading to peeling.
Now, a pigmented coating prevents the pentration of UV radiation and stops the degradation of the polyester. Clear coat stops about 1 to 5 % of the Uv from getting to the substrate. A pigmented coating will stop over 99.9% of the Uv. General Motors has a test method for determining the UV transmittance of coatings. Between 290 nonometers and 360 nanometers the acceptable limit for UV transmittance is 0.1%, from 360 nanometers to 400 nanometers the limit is 0.5%. This covers the complete UV portion of the spectrum.
My question is why? The automotive, truck, metal roofing and marine industries use a pigmented coatings on roofs and NOT the RV industry.
Country Coach does a Superior job on the sides of the Rv, but a inferior job on the roofs.
As for a lawsuit, that a good question. I'm not the one to answer that question. I do know that back in the mid to late 80's, Ford had a real problem with peeling paint on their truck and car, end with a lot of repaints. Seems that their coatings had insufficient pigmentation and allowed to much UV thru to the primer. etc etc.
Steve
95 Magna 5220
Yahoo Message Number: 27553 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27553)
Any discussion of lawsuits is silly. If you do not apply 303 Aerospace to your roof, you will get chalking and peeling. Pure and simple. And it is your own fault, not that of CC. Put it on your tires as well.
Al Colby
2000 Intrigue 10979 (with no chalking or peeling)
Yahoo Message Number: 27560 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27560)
Hi:
Regarding the roof of a CC and chalking. I have been told to use 303 Aerospace. Clean/wash the roof let it dry. Them spray on the 303. Wipe it down and that is it. Sounds good and I am told it works and is easy to do. I plan to do this a couple of times a year. What do you CC owners think about this.
Bob
2007 Allure 470
Yahoo Message Number: 27561 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27561)
Is there a web site for this 303 product. Where is it sold ? I would like more information.
Thanks
AL
00 affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 27562 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27562)
Web site: http://www.303products.com/ (http://www.303products.com/)
Where to buy: http://www.wheretobuy303.com/ (http://www.wheretobuy303.com/)
Al Colby
2000 Intrigue 10978
Yahoo Message Number: 27567 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27567)
Works great been doing it for about 4 years. Cleaning surface important, application is spray on, and I buff off, very lightly. Get good surface treatment, last about 3 to 4 months depending on weather and season, and smog. In summer I do it twice, takes about two hours for 36'
Yahoo Message Number: 27575 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27575)
I have tried the 303, works great but needs repeated applications. I am experimenting with exterior grade clear urethane made by Minwax.
It contains UV inhibitors and is very easy to apply and goes on clear. So far it seems to be holding up. The real test will be over the winter months. Will keep members updated.
Jake
Yahoo Message Number: 27583 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27583)
We've just started using 303, but be aware that it's both water soluble (rinses off fairly easily) and also greasy (leaves fingerprints where you touch and goos up your drying towel). That being said, it probably does do a good job while it's on, because it sure looks like it bounces the UV off pretty well - very sheeny. Lots of people swear by it.
But my current thoughts are to use a good wax on the painted surfaces (lots of choices), Honda Spray Polish and Cleaner on the textured surfaces (now banned in several states - stock up when you can!), and 303 on the tires.
Bill & Debbie in San Diego
Yahoo Message Number: 27587 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27587)
Don't know how true this is but I've heard that the industry does not paint the roof because of several lawsuits from people who fell off the coach roof. One of their claims was that the roof was to slippery. I know in 2001 CCI was considering not installing anymore ladders because of roof suits. The roof on most coaches does not have clear coat either. The clear coat starts at the edge of the roof and that is where the problem is, when the chaulking hits the edge of the clear coat it makes it come up. There are a lot of experts on this site, maybe they can tell us why in a 1000 words or less without lawyers.
Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425, 3rd CC never had any paint peel with regular 303 use
(http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2801132/grpspId=1705126185/msgId=27552/stime=1166027002/nc1=4025308/nc2=2/nc3=3)