Yahoo Message Number: 116008 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116008)
Howdy All-
So, my lead acid battery bank is like 6 years old now, and seems to be
fading. I have 6, 225Ah golf cart batteries.
Rather than spend the $1400 to replace, I'm looking at converting to
lithium.
My question is this, has anyone done this and also not changed your
pre-lithium inverter/charger also. I have the Freedom 20. It has a
setting for charging at 14.4 volts, but then has a 13.5 volt float - and
the float is not necessary for the lithium batteries.
I'm not really wanting to *also* have to upgrade my inverter/charger -
otherwise it does likely become cost prohibitive at more than 3-4x just
getting new lead-acid.
Thanks,
Wes Owens
2000 CC Allure 36' #30443
Currently in Utah
Yahoo Message Number: 116011 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116011)
To much bulk voltage no float at all can it be reset to custom voltages
Yahoo Message Number: 116016 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116016)
How about looking at Lifeline batteries? They are not cheap but are a good replacement for the lead acid batteries, both size and capacity. Lithium batteries usually start at $1,000 each. I have a friend that has replaced all of his batteries with Lithiums from a Tesla. four batteries at $1500 each, used. They must be kept warm and balanced exactly from cell to cell. VERY expensive! He has over $14,000 invested in his off the grid solar coach and trailer, not counting the solar panels..... It is a slippery slope to start down the Lithium hill..... Lifeline... your best bet.
Steve W.
2000 Magna 5784
Yahoo Message Number: 116018 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116018)
I agree Steve, the past history of Lithium batteries with fires and explosions, please PASS! Accident looking for a place to happen.
Lifelines are the best but expensive. Only batteries I have used in my coaches over the past 15 years.
Yahoo Message Number: 116019 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116019)
X2 on AGM. Lithium gives u less weight, don't think they are ready for prime time
Wally Falch
408-666-8566
Yahoo Message Number: 116020 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116020)
I know it's hard to keep up with technology & expensive, but we've been installing the Victron lithium batteries for a while now, and yes they are not only ready for primetime but are playing primetime in many sectors of the mobile lifestyle!
Wow is all I can say, Wow is it awesome, Wow does it work as advertised, Wow is it expensive!!
Sure wish it was in my budget, but I do have a few of Victron's parts & pieces installed in mine. They are really on top of the technology, I really like the solar controllers and battery monitors. Not only do they work, but they also have a Bluetooth app that lets you not only see instant information, change settings as well as see the history of that device.
Safe Travels'
Jim Lewis
Infinity Coach
Yahoo Message Number: 116021 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116021)
If batteries are compared on the number of recharges they will last over there lifetime the lithium is much cheaper . as far as safety the batteries made for rv are as safe as lead acid.
Yahoo Message Number: 116024 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116024)
I have had them in my 2000 Magna for three years now and I'm very pleased with their performance. Every thing in the electrical system is stock from the factory, freedom inverter and all. There are many different LI battery types, some are flammable, some not, I choose Lithium Iron Phosphate (Lifepo), they are advertized to not be flammable. The charge profile is not perfect, but it works just fine. I use the cold wet setting on charger 14.4v bulk with 13.5 float. The float is useful but the Equalize is not.
Price is another factor, I found mine for the same cost as quality AGMs.
Ed Recknagle
2000 Magna 5738
Yahoo Message Number: 116025 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116025)
Wes - Only you can decide if jumping to Lithium now is the right move for you. Wet is of course the lease expensive, and probably best bang for the current buck. AGM's (See my comment below on Lifeline.) is for sure an alternative, but bit more expensive. And Lithium, which I personally consider safe (The fire related lithium battery problems were not the same kind of lithium used in coaches.), are going to cost you much more up front. And depending upon the choice of battery, might require being installed in a climate controlled environment in the coach.
No right or wrong, just choices.
If going to Lithium, go the full way. Make sure you have upgraded charger's and battery management systems, that complaint whatever choice of Lithium you may choose. And budget a good 20-25% more then just the cost of the Lithium, do get these complementary components.
I personally had plan to shift to Lithium, when my bank of Lifeline AGM's needed replacement. Unfortunately, I made a mistake in understanding how the upgraded Inverter/Charger system I installed with my solar system and larger sized Lifeline AGM's worked with each other. And the bank failed about 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 years earlier then I expected. (This is on me, not Lifeline. Or Magnum (MS2812) or MidNite Classic150 Solar Controller. I was the one that did not have them set to play well with each other, and shortened the life of my X's 4 L16 Lifeline House Bank.).
Both the timing was off budget wise, and also Lifeline did a very standup thing, and offered me a good discount on a replacement bank of batteries. (Well past their warranty period, and understanding that I had probably shortened their life by how I had everything set up... They still stepped into help me figure what had happened, and were kind to me on a replacement bank.) So, that made it easier for me to stay with the same setup, but with adjustment's to how I maintained them...
I have zero problem recommending Lifeline's. In fact, if you are not a heavy boondocker. Or, if you do not want to also upgrade the rest of the supporting components at the sametime, I feel AGM's (Yep, I like Lifeline's. But also know that Fullriver's get positive reviews by their owners too...). And, if you don't mind the maintenance, and say add water filling systems - Wet Trojan's or Crown's or 'other' cell batteries are still a viable way to go.
How much do you want to spend? Is weight a concern for you? (I'd love to save about 300 pounds by going Lithium.) Do you mind moving your batteries into a part of your coach that is climate controlled? If not, then paying more for a self contained, heated/cooled Lithium battery bank is possible now a days. (Might fit into your exiting battery bay.) But at higher prices... (RVGEEKS are covering an install of Xantrex self contained Lithium bank. Which sure looks interesting:)!)
It really comes down to how much you want to spend now. Going to hang onto the coach long enough for hopeful/potentilal payback of longer life? Do you boon dock enough to warrant it? Etc., Etc.
Good luck on what you decide, and keep us all n the loop - if you go down the Lithium path. (And note. YES! You can do Lithium without replacing your existing gear, but, be sure you have an adequate BMS and the ability to monitor everything too, after the expense of such an upgrade. Thus my thoughts on making sure your supporting component's complement Lithium, if you go that route...).
Looking forward to hearing which way you go!
Best to you and all,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 116029 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116029)
Ed, I would be very interested in learning exactly what Li batteries you got and about your install, etc.
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 116030 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116030)
Smitty, lithium's need to be in air conditioned, climate-controlled space?
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 116031 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116031)
Hi Richard,
I jumped in with both feet on the Li batteries. I used CALB batteries, they are the about the same size over all as lead batteries but have a different configuration. These come in individual cells of at 3.4v and 100 ah each. I liked the idea of being able to replace a single cell. Here is a link to one dealer, http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=51 (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=51) Google show more dealers on line. I shopped and found a better price. I also picked them up, Shipping is high.
I installed two batteries on my Magna; A 800 ah for the house battery and a 400 ah for the starter. I posted photos of the batteries in Feb 2016, just scroll down the thru the photos, you can see them there.
They should never be charged below freezing, but they can still be discharged down to -25C. I installed a $10 car seat heater under each battery in the trays that turns on at 38 f and off at 40 f. The upper limit is 131 f. If that's a problem I'll just park it.
I have no individual cell monitoring system. The only way a cell can have a different charge from the others, in normal operation, is if there is a wire, or load, to the individual cells, Like what a monitor system does. I should check the banks for equality, it's been 3 years.
My only worry is that after 5 days of dry camping, I'll put a huge strain on the engines charge system. I do run the gen set, I want solar.
Ed 2000 Magna 5738
Yahoo Message Number: 116032 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116032)
Well all batteries have temperature ranges that they work best within:)! But the short answer is yes, non protected lithium battery packs should be in an area that protects them from extreme cold and heat. Non protected, encased lithium battery packs will stop charging at too low of temperatures.
Here is a link to the RV Geeks I mentioned, and they're early usage of the Xantrex sealed container Lithium bank. Since I did go with the new bank of Lifeline X's 4 L16's - I'm fortunate that I have time to see how this product, and others, do over the next I hop 6+ or so years:)!
http://www.thervgeeks.com/electrical/lithium-agm-electrical-upgrade-part-four/ (http://www.thervgeeks.com/electrical/lithium-agm-electrical-upgrade-part-four/)
Also, I find Larry and wife Debbie too, at Starlight Solar, to be good people to work with. He's a straight shooter. Look at his website for some of the different Lithium Packs being enclosed in a more 'battery compartment like' package. Such as the Lifeblue.
http://www.starlightsolar.com/lifeblue-wireless-bluetooth-lithium-ion-battery/index.html (http://www.starlightsolar.com/lifeblue-wireless-bluetooth-lithium-ion-battery/index.html)
I also am following how IRV2 member 757Driver is doing with his install.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/lithium-battery-upgrade-and-move-complete-372606.html (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/lithium-battery-upgrade-and-move-complete-372606.html)
I've also read that many boaters and RV'er's are using Battleborn Lithium too. But since I like and respect Larry and Debbie, I would have had Starlight help me with the install of the Lifeblue - if I had gone that route at this time.
I also admit, that I would have tried hard to retain my existing battery bay for the Lifeblue, or as RVGEEKS have done with the Xantrex package. I shifted to Lifeline 8D Chassis battery, so this time around when I replaced the L16's, I pulled everything out, and sealed off the bottom of the egg crate grill for the battery compartment. It's not air tight, as some penetrations remain along the back of the compartment to allow cables to pass thru, but so far the compartment is remaining much cleaner, 85-90% less accumulation of dirt and dust. And drier when driving in rain. (My battery bay is just behind the Passenger tag, and hard for road moisture to not swirl up into the bay. I also took the opportunity to clean it well, and respray a coat of protective Rustolium coats too.
What I kick myself for not doing, is using some remaining Dynamat (From a stereo install I did in my truck I bought several packages, and have plenty leftover.). I could have easily installed this on the bottom of the bay, and most of the sides, cutting out around the wires pass thru's. Heck, I could have sprayed the wire pass thru's with a expanding foam sealer too, and made the full area 98% + air tight. (The bay also has a sub compartment for the MS2812, with some fans pulling air out to the rear side towards the open area above the axle and transmission space. That I would not have touched.).
If I had gone with he Lifeblue approach this time around, I would have added heating blankets under the batteries for extreme cold. And I've looked for methods to pass say a 4-6" tube of AC air from the coach, down into the bay. No it would not be 'climate controlled', but I believe with insulation and a small duct feeding air from inside the conditioned coach area, it would have helped keep the battery bay temperatures a bit lower too. The battery bay being so close to the hot pavement, as well as close enough for engine/trans radiant heat to also warm the battery bay, that the Dynamat would have helped protect from those heat gains. (And that would have even been good fro the Lifeline's, as heat is not good for AGM's too... Again, not full climate controlled, but I had hoped it would have allowed me to use the battery bay for the Lithium install. Suspect more products like the one from Xantrex will also hit the market place too, and reduce the need to find a place inside of the coach to install the bank.
I have time on my side now, for much of this to evolve and shake out...
I oversized our Lifeline Bank by about 50% of what my energy audit showed we needed. (I should have got by fine with 400AH of house battery, going down to 50% SOC overnight. I went with 800AH, so I could life off the top 25% of battery capacity, and reduce Life Cycle usage.) I'd do the same thing with a Lithium bank, especially if some of the power was needed in cold weather to heat the heating pads to keep the batteries in their happy zone...
Another day, more helping of the economy will occur... But admit, I do hope it is several years down the road for me...
(And note: I like Lifeline, a good company that did/does the right thing. It was all about weight savings for me, the quest for Lithium. I want to change Toad's form our CRV, to a F150 Crew Cab with 6 1/2 bed. So if I could have shaved a few hundred pounds by going to Lithium, that would help the ISL when hill climbing and accelerating with the F150 eventually being pulled behind us....)
Best to you, and all,
Smitty