Yahoo Message Number: 116427 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116427)
Hi all,
I am writing this as a favor for a friend who owns a 2012 Phaeton with a Cummins 380 which has 50,000 miles on it. He has given the coach perfect care and has always kept up with service and maintenance. Now the problem...
Upon a return trip from Colorado to Illinois, the yellow check engine light would appear about every couple hours. He would pull over and shut down the engine and restart which temporarily cleared the check engine light. He babied it home and took to truck center in Illinois. They said very high pressure in crank case and have tore down the engine. They said the cylinder sleeves are glazed and they need to replace sleeves, rings, bearings, and send the head to machine shop at the tune of $11,000. They have absolutely no idea as to WHY this happened.
This is a tremendous group of people on this forum and I thought possibly if anyone has experienced this same problem, I would appreciate any insight to what has caused this. I know he would also thank you all for any thoughts, suggestions you may have to offer. Do you think it would be beneficial for him to contact Cummins with this issue even though the warranty is up and see what they offer?
Thank you all and I apologize for the lengthy email!
Steve
2000 Intrigue
#11168
Yahoo Message Number: 116428 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116428)
Did the shop pull down the EMC codes to see when the trouble started? My Cummins
Corp shop checks mine for codes annually. Bob 06 Intrigue 12047
Yahoo Message Number: 116429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116429)
Dusted? Have them look for air intake leaks...
Good luck,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 116435 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116435)
Glazing is usually caused by long periods of light to no load and or low engine temps.
As far as warranty, that would depend on the original warranty. It never hurts to try. I would.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 116436 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116436)
Dusting usually causes wear and abrasion. Glazing was cited as the condition.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 116438 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116438)
Sorry to hear about your engine issue.
Most certainly, contact the engine manufacturer. Be sure to have all past records available as well as the make, mode, year, vin as they may request the maintenance records.
You have nothing to loss and everything to gain. Ya never know what they may be willing to do.
Good luck in your endeavor.
Tom
Yahoo Message Number: 116445 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116445)
Thank you all for the responses. I have sent them on to my friend and he is very appreciative. He said they did pull the codes which led them to the analysis of the high pressure in the crank case but wasn't sure what date was recorded at the time of the code.
Mike mentioned that glazing was due to long periods of light to no load and/or low engine temperature. Does this mean starting the engine for short periods and not allowing it to get up to temperature? I am just curious because we park ours for 5 months at a resort in Florida and live in it as snowbirds during winters. Several people have started their coaches once a month while parked to be sure everything is operational, circulate fluids, etc. Is this not a good idea if it can cause glazing? Should they not even be starting their coaches over the 5 to 6 month period? Thank you for the clarification!
Steve
2000 Intrigue
#11168
Yahoo Message Number: 116446 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116446)
Good catch Mikee - I did not 'click' on the glazing description:)!
(Wife say's that it's not unusual for me to not 'click'. But at least I have my good looks, when the mirrors are covered.... :)!)
Best of luck to the OP on this one - Ouch! No matter the cause,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 116449 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116449)
Air filter driving in heavy rain gets wet from the heavy accumulation of rain water and mist in the filter container bottom. After driving in a heavy rain and mist my coach exhaust began to produce abundant white smoke and lost power. I decided it had to be steam from the accumulation of water in the filter and when I removed the first plastic screw holding the bottom of the canister and filter in place over a gallon of water came out of the screw hold that had accumulated in the bottom of the canister. Neadless to say the lower third of the filter was saturated also. After draining the water I left one of the four screws out of the bottom of the canister until I could get a permanent fix by providing drain holes in the bottom of the canister. I am sure that ingesting water in the intake is not good for the engine but if the wet filter had collapsed and the engine had gotten "dusted" it would hae been worse.
Frank
Yahoo Message Number: 116462 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116462)
Extended idling is a classic example of no load operation. If you are going to run it go drive it for an hour. Second choice would be to use hi idle for at least an hour. Diesel engines in cranes tend to have the same thing happen. Extended periods of idling between lifts.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 116463 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116463)
Mikee,
For high idle operation, what RPM should it be set at? I typically use 700 RPM, and just idle 5 min or so for warm up before driving. What do you recommend for idle RPM?
Greg
06 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 116467 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116467)
Hi idle is typically 1000 to 1100 rpm
Why idle for 5 minutes before driving. Just go, leaving the campground or other parking spot will usually take 5 minutes or more of low speed driving.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 116468 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116468)
Greg, for high idle just start coach and then push cruise control and it will idle up.
Gary Glenn
2006 Magna 6622
Getting web feet in Texas
Yahoo Message Number: 116469 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116469)
Mikee
Thanks for all the clarification! Once I am set up at the resort for 5 months, I wouldn't want to unhook everything and go drive it an hour. Referencing the second option of high idle for an hour may be a noise disruption to the resort, so do you think it is ok to not do anything for 5 months...don't start it at all and just let it sit for the duration? Am I risking seals or gaskets drying out or other concerns? I don't ever want to go through what my friend is experiencing but also want to be smart about procedures to keep the engine in top performing condition. I appreciate your thoughts!
Steve
2000 Intrigue
#11168
Yahoo Message Number: 116471 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116471)
Take out and drive until it gets to operating temperature
Yahoo Message Number: 116472 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116472)
Thanks Gary, yes I do that, but I always did it to 700 RPM. Sounds like 1000 RPM, per Mikee, is better. Also does not sound like we need very much warmup, I think Eric told me that too, just take it easy first few miles.
Greg
06 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 116475 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116475)
With modern materials there is little to no risk of anything drying out from sitting. By not running it for a few minutes you will keep condensation from forming due to the engine not getting hot and evaporating it./
Mikrr
Yahoo Message Number: 116476 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116476)
Thanks again for the advice and explanation. I will park it for 5 months in Florida and not start it again until April 1st. I am meeting my friend for breakfast tomorrow and he will update me on his engine repair. I'll be sure to pass this information on to him also.
Steve
2000 Intrigue
#11168
Yahoo Message Number: 116479 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116479)
Steve - Another benefit of driving the coach, vs longer high idle, is it gets all of the fluids flowing in the transmission, differential, wheel hugs too. And, tires that heat up to temperature periodically, seem to live happier lives. (Could be a RV Campfire Lore item, but I do believe in exercising the tires, along with all other systems.) And while out of the campground for the exercise, fire up the generator and give it some run time under load too.
My practice for take off from a park, is get ready to go. Many times, while still hooked up to shore power, I'll bring in both slides too. But when I fire up the engine, I watch all of the gauges. And when oil pressure shows good, and no other gauges show bad, I finally check air pressure. If all is good, which could 30 seconds at time, I put the coach in gear foot on brake and press Travel. Once I feel the air flowing to the bags by movement of chassis, I slowly pull out. (If boon docking, I'll bring the slides in after starting up, which of course takes longer.) On our coach, many times it maybe 200-300 ft before I really feel we're in full suspension travel mode, and the Travel light is solid. And if not in a pull thru, no big deal, as we find a place to hook up the toad.
I admit I used to be a few minutes of running the engine before moving Dude. Not excessively, but two minutes or so. But after a conversation with a gent who's knowledge I trust - I started to move, and reduce noise in the camp, as early as the gauges were good to go...
But I do still see many who will fire up the diesel, then go outside and finish pre-departure unhooking and packing. Just a few months ago, we had a gent do this at 6:00AM. I was drinking coffee, and far enough away the noise was not too bad. But after about five minutes, the neighbor next to him (Also in a DP!), came out and had a few quiet words with owner. The owner turned of his diesel, but I could see he was not pleased:)! Habits are hard to change...
Best to all,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 116481 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116481)
Smitty,
I agree with your comments. I normally drive my coach 20-25 miles every month. Keeps all fluids moving and the compounds in the tires active. By doing this I can run my Michelins 9-10 years with no problems with dry rot or separations. (Based on my previous coach a '99 HR Imperial for 18 years).
Tom
2007 Allure # 31570
'02 Silverado M&G Braking System
Yahoo Message Number: 116483 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116483)
Smitty and Tom,
Thank you for sharing your practice and procedure when preparing to take off from the park. Makes great sense and certainly reduces the duration of excessive noise when exiting the park. I plan to follow your advice. I also agree that taking it out for a drive once a month will assure everything gets exercised as needed.
Steve
2000 Intrigue
#11168
Yahoo Message Number: 116485 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116485)
I agree on trying to minimize engine running while getting ready to go. However, I am in the camp of running the engine, and therefore the alternator to power the hydraulic pump to move the sliderooms. That pump consumes high amps, and it is hard on inverter/charger to run it on shore power. It shocks the inverter/charger, cycles it abruptly, and can hurt it. So after I put away hoses and unhook shore power, I start the engine, bring in slides, put in travel mode and then roll. Setting up camp, I do not shut down engine until it is level and slides are out. I always run the engine when moving slides. An expert Country Coach tech (Tony Pineda, Beaumont CA.) taught me this early on. I treat my inverters with kid gloves, and they treat me well in return.
Greg
06 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 116487 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116487)
Greg - Good call on the power demands for most CC's. Our 04 Allure 2 Driver side Slides, are electric (No hydraulic.). According to a former CC factory member, now repair specialist tech:)! The electric are not as power hungry as the hydraulic's. As mentioned, I usually bring my slides in while still on shore power. But of course have also done so after starting the engine too. Finally, with the MS2812 installed, and a good size house bank, I've also brought the slides out/in a few time on battery fed inverter power only.
I do feel it is a good practice for slides power via hydraulic's - to have the extra power coming in from the alternator for slide movement.
(When talking about slides, I keep forgetting that most CC's have hydraulics, with a few having combo of hydraulics and electric.)
Best to you, and all,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 116494 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116494)
Group
One major item is missing from the discussion. What does sitting for 5 months do to the tires?
I drive my coach once a month when in a long term situation. I have been told by several Michelin techs that sitting is the worst thing you can do to a tire.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 116496 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/country-coach-owners/conversations/messages/116496)
Ditto.
Sincerely
Alex Ritchey 2000 CC Affinity B&B