Yahoo Message Number: 13302 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13302)
First let me give some background. I spent two years researching diesel motor homes, and the same two years trying to find the right dealer. Country Coach kept coming back the clear choice. Lazydays (Tampa) was the best dealer I found in the Florida area where we live. This is our first coach. We wanted to buy the right coach the first time to avoid trading. I still feel Lazydays is the best in our area although not without problems. Country Coach has so far been the most disappointing decision I believe we have ever made.
We decided to special order the coach to get everything we wanted. This was our dream for two years. Country coach gave all the right answers. Best quality by far, said they would watch the coach and make sure of quality control. Everyone with Country Coach was very nice and convincing from the Rep at Lazydays to all the employees we dealt with at the factory. We were told the coach would be inspected, not by one person, but a group of quality control employees to make sure everything was perfect before leaving the factory for Lazydays. We would and did receive pictures as the coach went down the line. When the coach was done and we were anxious to get delivery, we called Country Coach to get the date the coach would leave for Florida. We were told the coach couldn't leave the factory for another two days. Why? They said this group of employees had to inspect the coach to make sure everything was perfect. We sat back waiting confident of Country Coach, and so anxious to finally take delivery. You know the feeling.
On October 27, 2004. Three months after the order was placed, we arrived at Lazydays very excited about our new coach. Let the nightmare begin! When we were shown the coach, we immediately saw the driver's side slide was in at least an inch inside the outside walls, and looked terrible. Below the slide was also rough and unfinished looking. We thought since this was on the inside of the wall area it would not show when the slide was adjusted out. We figured if it was supposed to show the area would be properly finished. We pointed all this out to Lazydays and were told by two different employees, " Don't worry about the slide, it is just a minor adjustment." THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF ALL TIME. Lazydays was very professional, and since they were the experts, we as consumers believed the slide was not a problem. Unfortunately Lazydays was wrong.
Several days later, of course after signing the papers purchasing the coach and waiting for other repairs, we were advised that Country Coach had made the slide too small at the outside wall. The slide did not match the hole in the wall, and was short at the bottom by at least 3/4 inch. We were very uneasy with the situation, but Lazydays still said they could remove the slide border at the bottom and make the border wider to match the hole. They readily admitted the slide was defective from the factory, but said it could be replaced and we would never know it had ever been worked on. We advised we would have never accepted the coach had this been known on the first day we arrived.
To make a long story short. We initially stayed at Lazydays for 31 days trying to get 40 different items repaired plus the slide issue resolved. We finally left and returned home for Thanksgiving. We left very frustrated, but still hoping for a successful delivery of a quality coach.
Country coach talked very convincing about their quality control.
QUALITY CONTROL DID NOT EXIST ON OUR COACH. As novice consumers we found 10 items on the very first walk through, including obvious items such as a hole in the ceiling, steering wheel off center, moisture in both headlights, nicks in wood work, light in ceiling cracked, and a speaker dented just to name a few. The group of inspectors obviously never looked at our coach. We were still willing to work with Country Coach, and did so for 31days waiting with the coach at Lazydays. During the first week we found over forty items that needed repair.
The nightmare continues. After three attempts Lazydays now says they cannot replace the bottom border and make it straight. They have replaced the border twice and even the three managers we met with admit it looks terrible. They have tried three additional times to get a straight piece, but cannot due to when the piece is welded it warps in the middle. Country Coach cannot provide the piece because their tooling is for the smaller width to math the slide when the slide is made the correct size.
A manager then called and asked if I would accept the coach with the defective slide border, stating that most people wouldn't notice the defective slide. They said they could clean up and repaint the wall area below the slide, but the warped slide could not be repaired as they promised. The slide would remain warped with a very noticeable curving gap in the middle. This coach has a MSRP of $412,000. We advised we would not have accepted the coach if the truth had been known about the defective slide on that first day we looked at the coach. We advised we would not accept the coach, and told the manger we wanted a different coach.
This is now over five weeks later. The coach still has the slide that looks terrible, and the coach has never left the Lazydays lot. We have missed our planned initial vacation with the coach. We are currently paying for a leased lot for the coach we do not have.
We have now told Lazydays we have had enough. We have tried very desperately to be patient. The stress has been unbelievable. We have finally advised it is now time for Country Coach and Lazydays to step up and do the right thing. We now want a different coach.
A coach that has the quality Country Coach claimed.
Lazydays has always been very nice and seems sincere, but enough is enough. Country coach claims to be the best. It's time they show it. Lazydays is now contacting Country Coach to see if they will agree to a replacement coach. Let's see what Country Coach is made of.
Let the nightmare continue.
G.Eagan
2005 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 13303 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13303)
Sorry to hear of your bad luck in discovering the truth about this industry and about CC in particular. You should absolutely not accept the coach with their promise to make it right in the future...once your lemon law rights expire then you will be out of luck. You must become unemotional about this and now treat it as a business decision, your opponents are treating it as a business decision and they are not emotional..they have faced this issue many times and they almost always win because rv buyers are emotional and want to do the right thing. I know many people who made the mistake of accepting their word that they would make things right....nowhere near the problems you have...but problems that should have been fixed required months and many visits to service centers to get fixed. Many of the people should have invoked the lemon law immediately and gotten their money back and moved on but they accepted the sweet words that you are now hearing....remember CC is primarily a marketing company....look at all their materials....first class in every way...too bad they don't take a portion of that marketing cash and put it into a QC program and delivery a first class product. I have been to the factory, I have waited in their waiting room and listened to the horror stories and the frustrations faced by their customers.
One fellow with a Prevost stayed at the factory for over 90 days after delivery trying to get the bugs out, he was back there again and spent another month there and there were still issues when he left because he and his wife could not face the frustations any longer. They planned to attempt to sell the Prevost for half what they had paid for it because of their frustration with the ongoing problems. Yes, if you are lucky enough to get one without the problems then you are indeed a happy camper and you are an advocate for CC products...at this point I doubt that you are. It is sad to see a once proud company falter so badly after their founder has turned the reigns over to others. Maybe Bob Lee will have to return to turn the quality issue around.
Good luck in your efforts to get the quality rig which you purchased but so far have failed to get.
Yahoo Message Number: 13305 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13305)
Clearly this is a horrible story. But honestly, are there any motorhome companies and factories that are any better???
You hear the same thing about Marathon, Newell, Liberty. And these are all the $ Million products.
And what about Beaver (down the road from where I live)? And Monaco? Don't think for a second these are any better!
Where can we go if we want the get the coach we really want?? I still maintain that CC is the best in this clearly flawed industry.
I agree that we must deal with problems the moment we recognize them.
Goodness knows we had our problems with our new 02 Intrigue. And it took meetings and hostile conversations to get it right. Unfortunate - yes. But necessary. And problems were handled in due time.
I'm about to face it again next week with delivery of our new Magna. But this time, I'm prepared!
Tom
05 Magna on-order - and holding my breath.
Yahoo Message Number: 13306 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13306)
Thom,
The hostile conversations wouldn't be necessary, imo, if CC would face up to the problem when it is obivious, as it appears in this case, that their assembly people have totally screwed up. It would appear to me that happy customers would be their goal rather than requiring customers to turn into bazaar type hagglers to get the product they have purchased. It turns into an unnecessary stressful situation for their customer who they claim to really value in all their advertising pieces.
The one coach company I know of that truly seems to take quality seriously is Tiffen and I have never met a Tiffen built mh owner who is unhappy with the product support from Tiffen...
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
Yahoo Message Number: 13307 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13307)
The ironic thing is that, as good as Bob Tiffin's aftermarket support is, they're still building coaches which have a list of problems from the git-go.
Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97
Yahoo Message Number: 13308 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13308)
That may be, I cannot dispute that, but I have never met an unhappy owner from Tiffin. Another company that has a loyal and very happy customer base is Foretravel. Ironically, they are both still family owned businesses. It seems as if the "big boys" are the ones that couldn't care less after the sale, flowery sweet talk aside.
Max 98 Affinity #5487
Maybe one of the last of the good ones, but still not without small problems, but that is another story.
Yahoo Message Number: 13309 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13309)
Thank you for your response so far to my problem. I appreciate any advice any of you veterans might have the time to share.
Since I have never taken delivery after 5 weeks, I am asking for a different coach. I just can't take a coach in this price range with clear undisputed defects. Lazydays was to speak to Country Coach on Friday, but I didn't receive a phone call back and now it is the week end. I was promised a phone call on Friday, but it never happened. This causes more frustration.
I don't expect Country Coach will immediately agree to replacing the coach, but I don't see how they could possibly have any ground to stand on since the coach has never made it through delivery. The coach has never left the lot.
I have never mentioned the word lawyer. I hope to resolve this without legal problems in an ammicable way. On Monday I will most likely hear from Lazydays. I have to think about my response. Any advice from veterans would be appreciated.
Thank You,
Gary Eagan
2005 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 13311 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13311)
I met a guy in our subdivision that is building a new house, and staying in his Allure. He also had some big time troubs, including getting a complete new rear end. He is still a CC fan however.
Our new 2005 Affinity is far from perfect, but Lazy Days has been pretty stellar in staying on top of our little complaints. Our unit did not get a PDI, it got a PDG (Pre Delivery Glance), but we are confident all will be well in the end. We are not whiners, as we did not expect things to be perfect out of the box. We did lots of studying thruout our short MH history (three years, third MH), and went into this with our eyes wide open.
Buying a more expensive coach does not, unfortunately, mean getting a perfect coach. It seems to mean getting the inevitable problems taken care of with minimal hassle. We will see. We had a Newmar before this ... far from perfect despite the almost spiritual reverance exibited by Newmar owners.
I can't think of a good alternative to a CC. Tiffen has there problems. It seems the best way to get your Tiffen fixed is to take it to the factory. After the big guy retires, or dies, who knows if the present dedication will continue. I have read it might not.
Crap shoot no matter what the entry level.
I feel for you big time, but I think things will work out. I have faith in Lazy Days ... and a great attorney if I am wrong.
Good luck ...
BTW, where is your lease located ... in FL ???
John
Yahoo Message Number: 13312 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13312)
Egan
Don't accept the coach. Get a good lawyer and stand your ground. This coach will never be right until it is returned to the factory and is rebuilt with a new slide. You are working with a good dealer and my guess is that they will step up to the plate. This is not the first time they have had to deal with this kind of problem. Good luck! I hope to meet you some day and see your second new coach which hopefully, will only have an average list of new coach problems. We have all been there to one degree or another.
Gary Stanton
2002 Intrigue (which is as close to perfect as you can get)
Yahoo Message Number: 13313 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13313)
Hi Gary,
Over the last four years, several coach owners have personally written me with their multiple issues. The bottom line was to immediately purse the lemon law. Google: Lemon Laws Florida. Invoke it immediately, using the correct forms, do not tell them, do it without emotion. Do not lose your money.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 13316 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13316)
Fred-
I agree. We both know many honest, dedicated people at Country Coach that try their very best to make things right. Whether that's true of the very top management remains to be seen as they continue to ramp up sales. In the end, the market will be the final judge.
Gary Stanton
Yahoo Message Number: 13317 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13317)
Years ago, my brother gave me a book on "assertiveness" and I actually read it. Or most of it, anyway . One thing I remember is the recommendation to deal with the people who are in charge of making things right. And do NOT immediately call the President of the company or equivalent 'cause there's a good chance that'll p'em off. I know it may not seem "fair," but I've had very good success doing what the book recommends.
Also, rather than emphasize what a piece of crap a product is, emphasize how the failure of their product has adversely affected your life. Not a good idea to tell 'em to "stick their (crappy product) where the sun don't shine."
Of course, if the above fails, all bets are off .
Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97
Yahoo Message Number: 13319 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13319)
But, you get to deal with Pat Mason and Carolyn Gsell this time and I think, you'l be better pleased. TWI 11731 2004 Intrigue.
Yahoo Message Number: 13320 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13320)
You have not talked to the same Tiffen people I have; Cat diesel engines failing due to lack of cooling capacity, Allison trannies in distress, bay doors that don't line up and windshields laying on the ground, plus the usual. TWI
Yahoo Message Number: 13322 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13322)
Stand your ground. Insist on a meeting with the CC Rep there and someone from LazyDays management that can make a decision and committment, then ask for an immediate conference call with a CC factory official that can also make a decision. Whatever is agreed to verbally, request it in writing. Whatever you do, do not take delivery of the coach. Do not let your emotions get the best of you. As others have mentioned, this is all business. Lazy Days will take advantage of any weakness shown.
Buy the way, what is the coach number? Just for future reference.
Who knows, it could show up in a topic discussion years from now and it would be interesting to follow this one.
Good luck....
Jim Hughes
2000 Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 13335 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13335)
To all CC group members
I truly appreciate everything members have done so far. It is absolutely great to know this group exists at least in part to help other members. I have kept track with posts on the group for a long time, but never posted since I did not have a coach. The group's comments along the way helped in our decision to buy a CC. We still want a CC. Sometimes in the big city you loose sight of how nice people really still are. I related in an e-mail off the group site how impressed we have been with the RV community. During our 31 days staying at Lazydays (LDs) before we left for the holidays, and also during our travels shopping for a coach, we have met so many nice people. With all the problems we still managed to have fun. We have already made friends with several couples whom we plan on meeting on the road someday. We also want to meet everyone on the CC group. We were told a CC rally was coming up, and intended to check into it and attend before all the problems came up and we now don't have a coach yet. My wife and I are out doors people, and want to see the country up close and personal. I'm 57 years old and although my knees bother me a bit, my wife and I hike to every waterfall we can find.
I appreciate all the advice from everyone. I believe Monday or Tuesday will tell me the position CC and LDs will take. I will then have to decide what to do at that point. I have not lost confidents and LDs or CC. I do think both companies have shown in the past they have the capability to do the right thing. The only problem I've had with LDs is sometimes they lack showing too much concern over my situation. I was told last Friday " I'll call you back today." The call never came. This has to frustrate even patient people when the situation involves so much money. LDs and CC have our coach, our money, and our lives pretty much on hold until this is resolved.
I know we cannot take delivery of the present coach although we are stomping at the bit to get going. If we leave the lot we loose. We have decided CC has to give us a different coach, or LDs has to give us all our money back. LDs has a CC coach already on order that could easily be changed to our specs, if this is resolved quickly.
Some members mentioned e-mailing CC in my support. I really appreciate the support, and maybe in the future I will ask for that help if you are willing. I do believe if people stick together it can have an effect on the result. It's sort of like fighting city hall. No one listens unless the community gets involved. However, at this point I still don't know if CC will agree to a different coach. I still have not heard from LDs. I also don't know what LDs' position will be if CC refuses to give me a different coach. I guess I'm trying to say everything is still up in the air at this point with me trying to wait patiently. I've been told CC execs were out of town last week at a meeting. LDs advised they have to contact Jack Fagan at CC to get the approval or refusal for my different coach. Maybe he was out of town, and LDs just didn't call me for that reason. Does anyone know Jack Fagan, and his position with CC? I've been told he is an exec on the service end rather than sales end of the business.
If anyone will be at LDs next week let me know. Maybe we can meet. We are returning to LDs probably Tuesday to hopefully get this resolved. If not we have to get our bicycles that are still chained to a pick nick table. We hadn't planned on being away from LDs this long, but the coach was in the body shop supposedly in the process of having the slide border replaced for the third time, before they called and said it cannot be fixed properly.
Thanks again
Gary Eagan
Yahoo Message Number: 13338 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13338)
Jack Fagan is in charge of warranties which is why, I'm sure, he will have to get involved in this issue, Gary. I met him when I was in Junction City recently and found him to be very easy to deal with and he appeared to me to be an honest man who had the best interests of his company in mind while considering my issues as well. I'm betting that if you called him personally, he would be more than happpy to assist you.
Carol
'04 Inspire 51046
Does anyone know Jack Fagan, and his position
Yahoo Message Number: 13341 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13341)
Gary,
Have you talked to Country Coach directly about the major problem with this coach, specifically the slide? I can't tell from your post if you have. If you have, what are their comments about the problems with the slide? The other problems are probably considered "typical" new coach issues, but not the slide.
The other thing that surprises me is that Lazy Days took delivery of a seriously defective coach, ( slide doesnt fit the hole in the side of the coach) and their only concern was to get you to take "possession" by having you sign the paperwork so it is now registered in your name rather than the coach remaining as being part of Lazydays inventory. (I assume this coach has been titled in your name now?) I realize new coaches are rarely delivered without problems and that dealers end up having to delivery coaches that need some work, but the slide out situation in this case seems to be very unusual ( slide out not the same size as the hole in the side of the coach).
Thanks, Bob...
Yahoo Message Number: 13345 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13345)
Bob,
In regards to the slide out too small for the hole in the wall. When I first saw the coach the slide out was inside the wall about an inch. I was told the problem was just a minor adjustment. I really questioned them, but two different Lazydays employees both told be not to worry about it and said it just needed a minor adjustment. I don't really think Lazydays knew the extent of the problem until they started working on it. They did not tell me the slide wall was too small for several days. the first day they just said it needed adjusted out. When they did tell me they still claimed it could easily be fixed by just replacing the bottom border. They told me it would take several days or a week with getting parts, and wanted to know if I had the time to stay while they made the repair or did I want to come back. They made it sound as if it would be a easy fix. They also told me I would never know the coach had been worked on. I was uncomfortable enough that I told them at that point I would not leave until the slide was repaired correctly. I also advised them the slide had to look as if they had never worked on it as they promised. I'm not saying Lazydays was trying to intentional push a defective coach on me from the beginning. I believe after the expense of trying to repair the slide two different times management just decided to ask me if I would accept the coach to see what my response would be. I had been told in conversation the failed repair was 43 hours at $99 per hour. This took place two times. I did see the estimate from the body shop. This is in addition to all the other time they spent on the coach which was many hours and days.
Gary
05 Allure ( someday)
Yahoo Message Number: 13347 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13347)
Frankly, I commend you for your patience. However, you need to protect yourself. You should write a letter to Lazydays and CC, clearly outlining the problem and attempts to get it fixed, and letting them know that you cannot take delivery of a deffective product. You should give them a short deadline to replace the coach or refund your money.
If the coach is financed, you should contact the finance company (as holders in due course) and notify them that you are not taking delivery of the coach. In summary, you need to document this and set a timeframe for resolution. Also make sure that you have documented (or have records) of every conversation on the subject.
Good luck.
Yahoo Message Number: 13352 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13352)
What you are going to find is that CC people are the best. Oh, we can bitch with the best of them, but what I have found is that we prefer talk about are travels are friends are experiences first, and then the boys like to talk about how we did this that or the other to the coach. The gals are always talking what they are interested in and about giving us guys a hard time. The last thing on our minds is coach problems. But let me tell you about The M company and all its permutations coach owners, throw in Fleetwood, too , they really know how to turn up the heat. The Foretravel guys are like Airstream travel trailer people. They are wound up in their, rallys, coaches and life style. I did a lot of research before buying.
Sitting in a repair waiting room can tell quite a bit about a coach. TWI 2004 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 13361 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13361)
Hi Gary,
What about contacting Country Coach, did you contact Country Coach directly yourself to get their version of all of this??? What was their response? Would be very curious to know what they have to say about all of this.
Thanks, Bob..
Yahoo Message Number: 13366 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13366)
My sympathies to Gary and others with major problems with their new CC's.
The RV market is booming, the profit margin is as important as ever, and Quality Control has taken a back seat! May I ask why you all need to trade in your old units for new ones? Is having more slides or a bigger engine really that important? The newer coaches are bigger, heavier, and more complicated so the bigger engine I doubt equals more power (it is just pushing a heavier load).
Me, I am quite satisfied with my 2000 Allure and it has been a wonderful fulltiming coach for the past 2 years. However, we are no longer fulltiming as we are now living in a southern CA house. So, would anyone be interested in a 2000 Allure, 36ft, one good fitting slide out, Cummins ISC 330hp, 8kw diesel genset, 2000w inverter, solar, Kingdome satellite, IFS with larger chassis rails and tires, 34,100 miles on the odometer, and many more options...WITH ALL THE BUGS WORKED OUT? Contact me privately if you would like more info. rvmike Allure 2000 #30493.
Yahoo Message Number: 13379 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13379)
But who wants a Tiffen or a Foretravel, they look like something out of the fifties.
Yahoo Message Number: 13382 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13382)
Gary,
We are at Lazy days right now and I have been working with the CC people on some problems with my Magna. Nothing like your problems, but I normally hear thru the grapevine about problems like this. You didn't mention that Lazy days has provided you with a free campsite and 2 great meals a day, plus happy hour at the Crown club Bar etc. I know it is poor compensation for your problems but it is better then most dealers give you when you are in for service problems. You also have never mentioned who you are working with at Lazy days or your coach number. I'll be in the club house Tuesday morning for breakfast, ask for Bill Gabler, look me up, maybe we can compare notes and who I would call at Country Coach.
Bill Gabler, 05 Magna #6425 .
Yahoo Message Number: 13407 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13407)
To the group
Thank you again for your support. It looks like this situation is going more sour by the day. I'm now being ignored by Lazydays.
Last Wednesday afternoon a manager advised me the slide could not be repaired properly, and tried to see if I would take the coach anyway I refused and told him I wanted a different coach. He said this was out of his department and the matter would be turned over to Vicky Alexander to see if a different coach would be ok'd. I inquired as to when I would hear from Vicky, and he said if not yet Wednesday for sure Thursday. Keep in mind how much money is involved, and the stress involved. Wednesday passed. Thursday came and passed - no phone call. Friday ar 8:00 A.M I was on the phone. I contacted Vicky, and she stated they sent paperwork to CC (Jack Fagan) to see if they would approve a different coach. I said when will I hear anything. She stated she should hear something by 2:00Pm on Friday. No phone call back. Now it's the weekend. No phone call.
First thing monday I call Vick Alexander again, and questioned why I don't get response. I advised I wanted to know what is going on. Very non caring she said my repair order has been closed out.
The situation is now with Judy McConnell who will speak to CC.
I decided to head to Tampa. I found out from another customer who knows an ex LD employee the normal mode of operation when a deal goes bad is the following: They will never agree to another coach due to a 20% loss on the original coach. It is all business. They will try to take as long as they can before resolving the issue hoping the customer will just get tired of the fight. Their mode changes completely, They will try to ignore the problem, and will not return phone calls. The reason the repair order is closed out is because the longer the repair order is open the worse it makes them look. Nothing will happen unless an attorney forces the issue. When I arrived in Tampa my coach was backed behind the body shop not plugged in. All the items in the refrigerator went sour, and the coached smelled of soured milk. Nice of them.
As of tuesday at 3:30 no response. Managers know we are here.
It's attorney time. If anyone wants to e-mail CC please do so.
Gary Eagan
05 Allure (disaster)
Yahoo Message Number: 13408 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13408)
I can't say I feel your pain but I do have a sense of your stress and frustration. I have sent a message to CC. I also placed a call to Doug Rutherford (why not, the web site says Customer Service). He is supposed to return my call. I will hold my breath.
Mike and Marg Keogh
98 Intrigue 36 #10538
00 CRV
Yahoo Message Number: 13413 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13413)
Gary, Don't give up. The fight will be worth it once it is over.
Have you tried to call CC direct? Call Jack Fagan, Both of the Howards and Bob Lee. Call them all and tell them exactly what is wrong. Print the notices you have written to us on this board, and mail them to Jay Howard, Jack Fagan and Bob Lee, overnight mail, return receipt requested. Then call them all again. Be a squeaky wheel...a loud one. You're right, this is too much money to be lackadaisical about.
Carol
Yahoo Message Number: 13418 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13418)
Gary:
A letter to the dealer is now in order to protect your legal rights. It is critical that you document every conversation and start preparing a chronology. The letter serves as notice that unless they resolve within (xxx) days, you will deem the transaction voided and demand a new coach.
Hate to tell you, you need to at least start thinking of an attorney friend that can guiede you from here on end. Also be very careful with giving any statements that could be construed as an acceptance or an admission in case of future litigation. Sorry if I sound like an attorney, but I am one -
Yahoo Message Number: 13424 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13424)
Gary,
It's none of my business but I had a conversation with people I know at Lazy days and they said they were working on this issue with CC that very minute.
Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425
Yahoo Message Number: 13429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13429)
Get and keep copies of all the work orders that were generated and closed out. You will need them. Especially those that document the number of time they attempted to repair the slide problem. This will help in the litigation process. Best of luck and be a royal pain in their #@*.
I have experenced the Lazy Days suffle before and know what they are doing to you. Even meetings with the top managers there seemed to be ignored.
Jim
2000 Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 13442 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13442)
To all in the group
Some good news. The sales manager of Lazydays called me this A.M., and I told him in direct words what I presently thought of Lazydays, Country Coach, and our disappointment with both companies. Disappointment being a soft word for how we really felt. I've already expressed most of it so I won't go over it again. As a result he stated he would meet with everyone involved, and try to hopefully get this worked out without further delay or attorneys involved. Management with CC would also be involved.
Lazydays management and Country Coach believe they have the proper solution. After meeting with management the problem with the slide is: The outside wall was produced and installed approximately 1 inch too short. The hole in the wall is in fact the correct size. The function of the slide was not effected since the outside wall was the only piece too short. Lazydays and CC twice tried to solve the problem by putting a wider border piece on the bottom of the slide. This was terrible. The metal warped and of course looked warped. Two attempts, two failures, and almost a month wasted. We refused the repair, and the problems started.
Lazydays and CC stated the solution is to extend the fiberglass wall to the proper length, and then use production metal borders from CC. This metal is one piece and not welded causing the warping problem. We met with management and the actual fiberglass man who would do the work. He assures us the slide will look like it came from the factory.
I believe Lazydays and CC are now going to hopefully solve this problem. As one manager told me. Multiple managers are involved, and you definitely have our attention. Both managers with LDs and CC are involved. We are now working with one of the managers at LDs direct. We have been assured the door to management is open.
Hopefully we will finally have a quality coach delivered. Hopefully the solution to the slide works.
I want to thank all of you for listening and responding. I'm glad to be a member, look forward to meeting, and hopefully enjoying our Country Coach.
Gary Eagan
05 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 13450 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13450)
Gary,
If it was me I would not accept a repair on an undelivered coach.
I would insist on the coach going back to CC and a new slide manufactured & installed. I would also ask for a small upgrade of something you want to compensate you for the wear & tear on you and the coach.
JMHO
Steve
Intrigue #10673
Yahoo Message Number: 13454 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13454)
Gary,
Get them to give you a new coach.
Also tell them that I'll give them 125K for this Coach, provided they deliver it to my house in St. Petersburg. Its only about a 45 minute drive.
I'll let them take my 1989 in trade.
On second though, maybe not. They might be getting the better end of the deal.
By the way. What is the Id no of this Coach, so those of us who may be shopping can be aware.
--
Dave Fagen
1989 32' SE
St. Petersburg, FL
Yahoo Message Number: 13459 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13459)
-Gary: DON'T TRUST ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. YOUR COACH WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AS THE DREAM YOU ONCE HAD. REMEMBER WHO YOUR DEALING WITH AND THEY HAVE A HUGE ADVANTAGE...BUT RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE THE ADVANTAGE DON'T LOSE IT.
SAPP122
91 PrevoCC
Yahoo Message Number: 13461 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13461)
Gary,
I am sitting here wondering how they are going to extend the fiberglass wall. It surely will not be a straight continous lay of fiberglass cloth if done as a patch or insertion repair. Or is it a complete new fiberglass skin panel of the proper size being shipped from the factory? A patch job looks like a patch job and if not now it will in time. Most fiberglass skin panels are made of contious runs of fiberglass cloth and continous pours of resin as part of the manufacturing process. I would not accept any attempts of a patch job on a new coach.
Jim
2000 Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 13463 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13463)
Jim,
I agree with you, better to let someone else deal with this problem down the road and it will be a problem. I can't imagine why both LD and CC have let this issue get to this point. Have these people no understanding of the amount of ill will they are gaining, do they not know that it is much easier to get the word out now than it was pre-internet. I guess the Phrase "You're important to us" is a hollow phrase down at the LD complex. Anyone remember hearing that til you wanted to scream while walking around the LD facilities?
Ray
2000 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 13465 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13465)
If you accept this coach, please publish the vin number so that so poor sole won't get stuck with it in the future.
Larry R
'03 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 13470 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13470)
If the hole is too big for the slide, I wonder about the effectiveness of the seal to keep out the rain. Good luck!
Larry, 2003 Allure #30856
Yahoo Message Number: 13473 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13473)
Gary,
Have you at any time in this process had a little voice inside you say walk away from this coach? If you have you best walk away. You don't want to look back and say this was the biggest mistake you ever made. I think you need to use good business sense here, if not you will pay and pay and pay.
Vaughn
99 Intrigue 10809
Yahoo Message Number: 13489 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13489)
Thanks for all your responses.
I'm now at Lazydays. My laptop is old, and doesn't work too good sometimes on the internet making it more difficult to communicate. I don't have wireless (wish), and the only place to use my laptop is finding a empty spot in the building at Lazydays.
Late in the day on 12-8, Jack Fagan from CC called. We had a lengthy conversation. He did apologized for all the problems, and wanted to verify all my problems with the slide are now being taken care of. He also stated the problem was a short outer wall, not the hole made too big. Photos were sent from LD, and he reviewed the photos and had conference calls with LD. He assured me the problems would be repaired correctly, and to call him if I feel I need to.
He states the way CC instructed LD to extend the slide wall, and then use production metal is the proper way to repair the slide wall. He also knows how the coach left the factory, and again apologized and stated he does not know how it happened. I believe my issues may help the situation for people in the future.
Management from both companies are now working with me direct.
I have hopes of resolving this, but we do have an attorney. With the weekend coming nothing will get done until next week except parts have been ordered.
I'll keep in touch. I believe how both companies resolve my problem could be important to other members. At least from other posts it appears others are interested in the outcome. If you are tired of hearing about this just let me know. I'm getting tired of listening to my problems myself. Last night we just had some drinks and fun at the crown club.
Gary Eagan
05 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 13494 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13494)
Gary, just following up on a suggestion that others have made...could you put the coach number on the board for others to know....I'm guessing that it must be Allure 31170 to 31175 or thereabouts...right????---
Ray and Rue
Allure 31176I
Yahoo Message Number: 13576 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13576)
To the group
I have read the recent posts. Most members are very supportive, and I appreciate the help. I'm sure your support and posts did help. Some are now not so supportive for whatever reason. I really don't know why. I realize everyone has his or her own opinion, which I do respect.
Some non-supportive posts suggested: 1. We are just complainers. 2. The forum should be used to generate constructive ideas rather than be destructive in tone. 3. Suggested we are "sue the B's " people. 4. A couple posts stated they are highly skeptical of complaints aired on the forum. 5. One stated he would not write about problems with his coach on the forum. 6. One stated our problem is just COSMETIC. 7. One stated "not afraid to post my coach number" apparently chastising us for not posting our coach number at this time. 8. One even suggested the moderator possibly should possibly block our posts since we did not post our coach number.
We are now at Lazdays still trying to get successful delivery of our coach after 47 days. We will be here at least another 10 days even if everything goes right. We are now working directly with management with both LDs and CC to properly repair the slide wall. Managers are directly involved making sure the job is done correctly the third time around. Managers have assured me the slide will be correct, and look as if it was done properly at the factory. We are still hoping for a successful delivery.
How anyone got the impression we are "sue the B's people" is beyond me. We are just the opposite. We have worked and waited patiently for five weeks trying to solve this and get a quality coach, but CC quality is what we expect. We did not buy a Fleetwood Bounder. We understand new coaches have some problems, but leave the factory with a slide wall almost an inch short with the bottom portion of the slide opening very rough with paint peeling with just a fingernail is not acceptable, and yes it does show poor quality control. We also realize the slide is just COSMETIC as one member stated. Is that to suggest we should accept a coach with a slide as described above. Would anyone, with possibly the exception of the one member, accept a CC with a defective slide wall constructed how it is described above. I don't think so. One member stated the group has only heard one side of the story. We have absolutely nothing to hide. Call CC. They readily admit the coach did leave the factory as described. They have pictures used to help correct the problem now. Management from CC has apologized in a phone call to me again acknowledging the defective slide wall as too short. It is refreshing to hear CC acknowledge their error, and work to correct the error. We are impressed with their honesty. If refusing to accept the coach without the slide corrected is being a "COMPLAINER", I accept the label. I doubt however if the member who called my problem just COSMETIC, would have accepted his Magna with the very same COSMETIC defect.
The occasion we spoke negative reference LDs was last week when we were ignored for two days, but is was the truth, we were ignored for two days. Maybe LDs was working on the problems and their options. We also did not contact anyone during these two days, as we were also finding out our options. Contact an attorney for advice at that point. You bet! Do you think LDs and CC did not have an attorney's advice? LDs has an attorney on staff. We obtained advice as was appropriate at that point. Did we use the attorney? No. Threaten a lawsuit? No.
One member suggests the forum should be used only for constructive ideas and not have a destructive tone. I would love constructive ideas, but the group in my opinion should help point out problems to CC so they will have the initiative to correct their problems. They do listen. They do need to be told about poor quality control. No one should pay their prices, and not insist on quality. I would love to own a company whose customers pay between $250,000 and the sky is the limit for a product, accept 50 things wrong from the factory, have my other customers call another consumer a complainer if he doesn't accept a defective slide, and also warranty the product for only one year.
I hope to shout great things about CC in the future, but the truth in my case is the truth. They shouted all the great things about quality control when we were buying and building the coach, but in reality they let us down. The coach should have never left the factory. They acknowledge the coach should never have left the factory. They are now hopefully fixing the problem. They have apologized and I do respect that. I will have six weeks time invested. Money lost in a leased lot I am not using, I'm currently paying for a coach I have never driven off the lot. We missed our vacation to Tennessee, and now hope to just get out of here before Christmas. All we can do now is park the coach on our leased lot, and try for another maiden voyage sometime hopefully in the near future. Are we disappointed in CC? You bet we are! If the truth is giving the owners group a destructive tone, I apologize to those offended. I believe the group should exist for more than that. The group should solve problems both with member issues, and point out shortcoming to CC so they will work hard to improve their product.
They definitely have the ability to turn out the best coach.
Gary Eagan
05 Allure (someday)
Yahoo Message Number: 13577 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13577)
GARY, most on this board are great people, many very smart ones offering good technical advice, others not so good advice. But the most part it is great. There are however a few sanctimonious windbags here, and I have learned just to just delete their mail as it seldom contains anything worth reading, a lot of tooting their own horn, etc. I suggest you do the same. And don't give in...accept only what is acceptable to you! Max
98 Affinity #5487
Yahoo Message Number: 13579 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13579)
Gary
You are a model of patience. I think you have handled yourself correctly and that is why you are getting results. I wish you well. Happy Holidays!
Mike and Marg Keogh
98 Intrigue 36 #10538
00 CRV
Yahoo Message Number: 13588 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13588)
Gay,
I have found your plight to be most interesting and unfortunate. May I suggest that you only pay attention to the "helpful" post and just ignore the criticism. There are always several views on nearly all subjects and I think it is more prudent to simply acknowledge those that are valuable and ignore those which serve no other purpose than to aggitate.
I spent 5 weeks at Buddy Greg's the first time I was in for warranty work and 4 weeks the second time. My problems were not as severe as yours but it was very irritating. Seems there is always a big delay getting parts. Please keep us informed on your situation. I am planning to trade again in another year and or so and this forum is helpful in deciding what to buy. Best of luck.
Yahoo Message Number: 13589 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13589)
Sorry, I mean GARY
04 Inspire 51023
02 Liberty
Yahoo Message Number: 13599 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13599)
For a real nightmare get a Fleetwood Product - we had one we bought new in 2000 - your problems seem mild compared to the problems we had with that Fleetwood Hunk of Junk - always on pins and needles because you didn't know what was going to go wrong next - and it did! After 20k miles plus we are finally able to relax and not stop at a repair shop every week - and when we see a Fleetwood motor home on the road we many times comment in unison - "Sure feel sorry for that poor...."
CHEERS - Clint
04 Inspire 51038
Yahoo Message Number: 13610 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13610)
Gary,
You've heard from me enough, and you among others don't like what I have to say so I'll leave you with the advice of the Inspire owners, they seam to know all about Country Coach. I know more about this then they do but I'm going to shut up and just listen from now on. If you are around the paint shop at Lazy Days next week look me up, my new Magna will be there for paint work which was not properly done at the factory. I'll leave you with 2 quick pieces of advice. Never leave your coach anywhere and expect the work to be done while you are gone. Most dealers are being pulled so many ways that when you leave they do other things. I learned that 12 years ago when we owned a 1993 Southwind. And second, please use your coach number, it lends creditability to your notes.
Bill G. 2005 magna #6425 ( 3rd Country Coach and I'm not rich, just have good credit, we're out of here)
Yahoo Message Number: 13634 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13634)
Bill,
18 mo ago I also had a problem that I couldn't get resolved thru the normal channels. My Magna #5377 was found to have a NCC of 325 lbs.
This to me was a serious safety problem but the people I talked to at CC were not interested in correcting the problem. I brought this up on this forum and recieved no help from anyone on here. I wrote letters to CC with what I thought was a workable solution and was told that it would work but they weren't interested in doing it.
After exhausting my options with CC I retained an attorney who wrote a letter to CC asking them to review my case and it was resolved to my satisfaction in 3 mo. As a result of this action CC issued a recall to 18 other coach owners whose coaches were built approx the same time and fixed those coaches. So you see positive things happen when we persist in demanding to be heard and our problems addressed.
Gary is doing exactly the right thing and deserves our respect and support. Inspire owners also deserve our respect. They are only trying to make this a better company with a great product. If they didn't care we wouldn't hear from them.
Respectfully, Harvey Grooms
Magna #5377
Yahoo Message Number: 13646 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13646)
Harvey, It would really help if you identified what was wrong and what the fix was. With luck I will be in the market for another coach next year and was considering a used Magna. As a result of your comments I now have concerns as to what to look for when shopping for a replacement coach.
Thanks.
David & Karen
Yahoo Message Number: 13648 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13648)
Dave & Karen
My coach is a 97 model so I don't think you will be looking at any that old. Mine is built on a Gillig chassis to CC specs and had 265 75 22.5 tires that were rated at 5205# on the front axle. This made the front axle rating 10410#. The fix was to replace the tires with 275 70 22.5 tires that were rated at over 6000# and rerate the axle at 12000#. That gave me an additional 1590# NCC. The circumferance of the tires is almost the same so the speedometer readings didn't change.
Good luck in your search.
Harvey Magna #5377
Yahoo Message Number: 13323 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13323)
I am absolutely amazed at some of the posts that have suggested that you "work with the dealer" and to expect "issues" with any coach.
Here is how I look at it...........and I am FAR from an authority or expert, just stating an opinon. If you bought a coffee maker at Home depot and it didnt brew coffee, would you bring it back and let the clerk tell you to try tea for awhile and see if it (the machine) works in a few weeks? NO
If you ordered a burger from a restaurant and they brought you a chicken sandwich, should you accept it anyway? NO
If you ordered a RED CADILLAC and a BLUE CAVALIER showed up at the dealer, should you accept it? NO
If you custom-built a house and had plans for a slider to the deck, but the builder gave you a regular door, would you accept it? Heck No!
Then WHY IN THE WORLD, would you plop down over $300k for something, regardless of what it is, and it AINT WORKING, would you accept delivery on it and have the dealer tell you it will be fixed in "awhile"?
You need to have blinders on, or WANT blinders on, if you dont know of the history of shoddy workmanship that permeates this industry, regardless of the pricepoints of the product.......and if COUNTRY COACH touts itself as TOP OF LINE and produces a SUB PAR product, and people (customers) accept it...............then WHO IS THE FOOL in this scenario? Clue, it aint the dealers. As long as they can keep getting away with it, they will do it!!!!
Tell them to shove it sideways, up their you know what.........even with the slides IN, it may be a tight fit. ANd for all of us out there that CONDONE TAKING DELIVERY and working with the dealer in hopes of it getting taken care of later.........dont let us wake you up from the dream that you are now having!
And, you current CC owners, should be sticking up for this guy. If the reputation of CC is sullied, then your product devalues as well. HELP THIS GUY OUT....tell CC that the reputation of their product, and your "investment" is being jeopardized by poor QC and bad customer relations.
Wow, I sounded pissed! All this on a sunday morning too, BUT IF IT WAS MY MONEY, I WOULD BE WAGING A GIGANTIC PR CAMPAIGN AGAINST CC and Lazy on this deal............
John in boston
http://www.johndipietro
Yahoo Message Number: 13324 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13324)
I am with you John, no body should have to put up with this kind of "pure I don't care what's like cause I'm not buying it" and it goes out the door to another unsuspecting sucker.
When we ordered our '99 Allure, we did not put a slide in it and the salesman kept telling us that we really should have the slide because of the resale value (true) but I told him that he was not going to drive it or hassle with the problems.
We have everything else in the coach that was available at the time and are very happy with it.
In reading all of the problems and hearing of them on the roadm my conclusion is that there are too many options added that are prone to giving problems. Some may be better options ( Hurricane and Hydra Hot heating) but agian they are the source of many problems. BTW ours has the old fashion propane furnace, worked great in 4 degree weather in North Carolina one Christmas whild the guy next to me with his Hurricane could not sleep because of the noise it produced and the lack of heat it gave out.
The '99 will be my last Coach unless sometning unforseen happens and right now my only problem is the electrolysis problem on the entry door.
As John said about the coffee maker, I also agree. We have a retai business and if we get a defective product in, it goes back to the supplier, and if we happen to sell a product with a defect and it come back, no questions asked.
The MH industry needs to operate that way also and we as consumers should demand the same kind of business dealings from them as we do from other retail (wholesale, Manufacturer) establishments. If some MH manufacturers go under-so be it- it happens all the time.
It all should come down to customer satisfaction and not how big the bottom line is going to be.
Sorry about the rant, but if my coach had had serious problems on delivery, I would not be driving it now.
On new purchases, tell the dealer that you want to go through the entire coach for as long as it will take. Maybe a test drive and then just sitting on the lot and trying everything and looking at everythiong very carefully. I know it is an overwhelming time when the new coach comes in but take your time and inspect it very carefully as long as it takes.
How many of you have really done this?
Egon
'99 Allure #30321
'02 Tahoe
Yahoo Message Number: 13326 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13326)
This is not necessarily sufficient, either. When we took ownership of our 1999 Intrigue everything worked until after 2000 miles when all our vendor-supplied equipment like relays, etc and CC quality problems started occurring/appearing.
As well as assembly-line quality control improvements, I think CC also has to address shoddy quality from vendor-supplied components. Are they saving dollars by buying from low bidder, regardless of quality?
George Becker
gwb36@...
1999 Country Coach Intrigue
Cummins isc350
Coach #10700
Yahoo Message Number: 13330 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13330)
Have you purchased a peace of electronics lately? If it fails, the retail discounter doesn't even want to talk to you, you have go to a warranty station. If you don't live in one of the major 20 cities in the US you have to ship it to the manufacturer, who sends you a new one and charges you for it. Then upon returning the original unit he may say it's your fault and now you owe for two. If you purchased the piece of equiptment out of state, to save a buck, you're really up the creek. Now you have to find a lawyer licensed to practice in that state. Now am talking about hidden flaws mostly or shipping damage. At least when you buy a coach it's not being delivered to your front door by a minimum wage delivery boy! So, why not try to work, with the dealer or the factory? Just make sure you don't accept a lemon yellow coach, when it was supposed to be sky blue, with 8 wheels, with tires of course. TWI 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 13331 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13331)
You want to talk about propane founaces, mine would work until the temp got below 40 deg. then it would fail. New cards new sale switches, new thermo stats. * trips No heat.... The third new furnace new wiring new vent pipe and it finally worked, but no real reason why. The unit worked for ten years and has now worked another 10 for the peson I sold it two. The coach was six weeks out warranty when the problems started. TWI 1983 Airstream Limited travel trailer...
Yahoo Message Number: 13332 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13332)
Regarding problems and picking up a new coach.
We're buying a new coach (05 Magna) and taking factory delivery next Wednesday. We are "supposed" to go to the dealership on Tuesday afternoon or early Wednesday morning BEFORE going to the factory to get the coach to take care of payments - which obviously means paying for the coach before we see it. The dealer (Guaranty RV in Junction City) certainly will not let us inspect the coach or go for a test drive before paying the money, so the advice to do these things before "accepting" the coach is good advice, but not possible.
I would appreciated then suggestions on exactly what to do when I'm supposed to pay for the coach first, then go and pick it up. Need advice now because leaving from Bend, Oregon to Junction City very soon.
Thanks.
Tom
05 Magna #6479 on order
Yahoo Message Number: 13333 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13333)
It is GREAT advice and it IS POSSIBLE if you stipulate this BEFORE making the deal. I did this in 2000 with Lazy Days and they had no problem with it. I inspected the coach and they worked on it ~48hrs correcting all problems BEFOFE I released any funds.
Again, you must negotiate this BEFORE signing or paying anything. Use a major credit card for a small deposit if necessary so that you can easily dispute this and get your money back if necessary. Let them know in no uncertain terms that funds will flow ONLY when these terms are met.
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX
Yahoo Message Number: 13334 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13334)
Tom: IMHO, you should politely tell the dealer that for that amount of money you would like to inspect and drive the coach. When you are satisfied, you will shell out the dough. It's not too much to ask, believe me. I don't thing people are taking numbers for half-million dollar coaches and standing in line, huh?
Dealers respect folks that are reasonable and respectful. Inspection and driving the new coach first is certainly not unreasonable.
Larry
Intrigue
10762
Yahoo Message Number: 13336 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13336)
Tom,
Maybe you can avoid my mistakes. My main mistake was believing who I thought were the experts when they told me the slide could be easily fixed and don't worry about it. They told me it was just a minor adjustment. I believed them and signed the papers. Now I have a disaster. After our initial walk through and finding about ten things right off besides the slide, we were also told to just make a list and everything would be fixed or replaced. With everything other than the slide Lazydays was great. If I did not like the way something looked, they replaced it without any argument at all. We were impressed.
They originally told us we would probably be staying at Lazydays for about a week while our list was taken care of. If we found anything, just let them know. On our first walk through we only found 10 of the total 40 items on our list at the end. We were with our salesman, and tried to be diligent in finding problems, but found out later we missed many items that were visible. We just didn't see everything until we started staying in the coach while repairs were being done. Also some items didn't show up for a few days, like the A/c not draining right. Anything I added to the list, Lazydays had not problem fixing or replacing.
Our service advisor did tell us our coach had a lot more repairs needed than normal. We were not thrilled about hearing this, but Lazydays was fixing everything we found up until the slide could not be fixed. I told Lazydays from the first day the slide turned out to be more than an adjustment, I would not have accepted the coach had the truth been known at the time the coach was shown to me. This is my argument now for a different coach. If I go through this again, I will not sign papers if I find anything mechanical, or anything I even remotely think could turn out to be a problem later, until after the item is fix properly. Even with this in mind items can still come up later, but at least obvious items are corrected. After seeing how Lazydays handled the cosmetic items, I really didn't have too much problem with the way they handled it other than being a little slow. I would again give them a list of the minor things with the understanding it is all fixed before I leave. On the present coach I told them I wanted everything fixed before leaving because I didn't want to have to come back.
They were ordering replacement items, and fixing everything and were almost done when the slide became the disaster.
I would not be comfortable with the way Guaranty has told you they do deliveries. I was shown my coach, and drove the coach for about ten miles before signing the papers, and look at my disaster.
Good Luck,
Gary Eagan
05 Allure (someday)
Yahoo Message Number: 13344 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13344)
Tom
The dealer (Guaranty RV in Junction City) certainly will not let us inspect the coach or go for a test drive before paying the money,
I have purchased 2 coaches from Guaranty & unless they have changed I settled up with them after I had completed the test drive & PDI from the factory. It has been almost six years from my last purchase.
Terry
99 Magna 5703
Yahoo Message Number: 13346 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13346)
C. Marshall, I do not know where you buy your electronics, but I
have not had any trouble with any of my purchases. I always asked about the return policy of defective or damaged merchandise and if I got the ho hum I do not buy there, but this has not happened. Here again, even if it is the big chain retailer get to know a person in the particular dept. so that you can have a good contact.
I buy a lot of electronic from computers to digital cameras, out of state and local establishments and have had no problems.
Egon
'99 Allure #30321
'02 Tahoe Z71
Yahoo Message Number: 13348 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13348)
Tom,
There is no way that I would accept delivery and make the payment for a coach without seeing it or even driving it. As my earlier post, that what I did with the '99 Allure and will do it again and if the dealer will not agree to that arangement then he will not get my business. Folks, there is too much money involved in this to sign , pay and then go look at the merchandise. Tell CC what the situation is and tell them you will not accept the coach without looking at it or even driving it for a short distance. You should not have paid anything down so you could walk away from the deal.
Egon
Yahoo Message Number: 13349 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13349)
IF YOU WANT TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS (AND YOUR POCKET) DO NOT SIGN ANY PAPERS (LOAN, ACCEPTANCE, ETC) OR PAY ANY MONEY UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE YOUR OWN PDI AND DRIVEABILITY TEST. iF THE DEALER DOES NOT WANT TO AGREE, WALK AWAY (WITH YOUR MONEY). WOULD YOU BUY A HOUSE WITHOUT AN INSPECTION??? NO DIFFERENCE HERE.
Yahoo Message Number: 13351 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13351)
Thanks everyone for all the great advice.
I'll be calling CC and Guaranty tomorrow for an appointment to "inspect" our new Magna before the scheduled factory delivery and payment of funds.
If anyone is interested, I'll keep the group informed as to how this all goes and what MY experience is with factory delivery and shake down cruise (both good and bad) and I hope I'll be able to share good news rather than the doomsday stuff we've all been reading here.
Keep the advice coming until I hit the road for Junction City Tuesday AM.
Tom
05 Magna #6479 - ready for delivery!
Yahoo Message Number: 13354 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13354)
I would like to ask a question, which slide are you having trouble with? In middle 2003 I noticed that Allure slides didn't fit flush anymore. They had a 2" 0r 3" piece of trim around the slide that covered the valley between the exterior wall and the slides exterior surface. Is this true of 2005 Allures? Plus the slides cages are now made smaller than before because of a newer more flexible but wider wiper seal. If this frame material is indeed missing, then yes, the slide could pull or recess into or inside the exterior wall surface. Other wise, how can, what you describe happen? Now on Intrigues Magnas and Affinities are slides do pull in and can be recessed below the surface by over compressing the D ring gaskets. My bed room slide was that way. It took me three minutes after I looked under the bed to fix the problem, the stop lock nut had come loose driving 2000 miles home from Oregon allowing the stop bolt to creep. Just some questions.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 13357 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13357)
C. Marshal,
The slide with the problem is the driver's side livingroom slide. The slides all go inside the hole in the wall, and are supposed to end up flush with the outside wall. The slides do not butt up against the outside wall like in a Monaco.
Gary
Yahoo Message Number: 13365 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13365)
Gary,
We have worked with Jack Fagan on our coach problems and he is very helpful, straight forward person and is in a position to make a real difference. Our 2004 Intrigue had some serious overheating problems with the Cat C13. We just got it back from the factory with all the updates and CC did everything they could do to resolve our issues.
Ron
2004 Intrigue 11849
Yahoo Message Number: 13381 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13381)
Tom,
We picked up our 05 Magna at the factory in july. We purchased it from Lazy Days at a rally in Feb. but we did not sign the delivery papers and bank papers until after we drove the coach and stayed in it for one night. Tell the dealer to send the papers to the CC sales office and you will sign them after you inspect and drive the coach.
You will have a lot of things to correct but none of them should be major. We spend a lot of time at Lazy Days doing warranty work, thats the nature of the beast. And what else do we have to do. We are retired and besides it's fun to stay at Lazy days. Unless you are retired you don't have the time to own a motor coach. And if you are a Lazy Days customer you can hang out at their bar and cry on someone elses shoulder. You would be amased at the stories you hear when someone has a few drinks.
You will enjoy your new Magna, we do and sometimes it's a challenge.
Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425
Yahoo Message Number: 13385 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13385)
Thank you Bill for the great note.
Tomorrow we dredge through snow measured in feet instead of inches (in our toad) to make our way to JC for factory delivery on Wednesday. CC has welcomed us to inspect our coach on Tuesday afternoon, then spend most if not all of Wednesday taking factory delivery, and then lastly - the trip of Guaranty to pay the bill. I'm confident in Carolyn Gsell at CC, Damon at Guaranty, and my history at Guaranty (3rd coach from them now) that all will go well. I'm also prepared to notice small items for repair. Just hoping for none of the biggies.
Thankfully I too now am retired and time at Camp CC will be an experience to say the least. And Mexican food at a local restaurant in Junction City is fantastic.
Tom
Yahoo Message Number: 13386 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13386)
My goodness, Tom! I'm sitting in my coach in the central valley with 50 mph gusts, hard rain, etc. Are you really going to try to get over the Siskyous tomorrow? I'm thinking you won't make it all the away to JC - even if you're in Redding tonight. Its gonna be worse Tuesday before it gets better - maybe even Wednesday, based on the NOAA site. Might as well carry chains; you may need them.
Please be careful!
Carol
Yahoo Message Number: 13387 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13387)
Hi Carol
Nope. Just driving the toad from Bend, Oregon over the Cascades to JC to pick up the new Magna. Will go on our shake down on the Oregon coast and will tackle the Siskiyou (Lord willing) just after the first of the year.
I've promised our new Magna it will never see snow. May need to take the coast route. Pray for us.
Tom
Yahoo Message Number: 13392 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13392)
Hi Tom
I'm in Sisters, OR. Yesterday (Monday) we had maybe two or three inches of snow in town. By afternoon it was starting to turn into slush. Main road through town open but not a lot of traffic.
Not sure of condition over the pass to I 5 but know doubt you are checking with ODOT before starting.
This morning the snow plows are out clearing local roads.
Take care and safe travels.
David & Karen, Intrigue 2000
Yahoo Message Number: 13393 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13393)
Thanks guys. It's Tuesday, Dec 7 around 7:00 AM and we're hitting the road towards Eugene around 9.
Do you live in Sisters? We live in Sunriver and just sold some property in Sisters area.
Hope to see you sometime.
Tom and Pat
Picking up Magna #6479 tomorrow.
Yahoo Message Number: 13395 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13395)
Thanks guys. It's Tuesday, Dec 7 around 7:00 AM and we're hitting the road towards Eugene around 9.
Yahoo Message Number: 13402 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13402)
You're in my prayers for sure, Tom. This time of year, you could see snow on the coastal route also. Take good care of that Magna - it shouldn't see snow unless you want it to see snow! Have fun taking delivery and being assertive.
Carol