Yahoo Message Number: 13956 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13956)
Can anyone advise me as to the specifications necessary to provide 50 Amp service to the coach? I am in the process of upgrading my home service to 400 Amps and dropping a 100 amp subpanel to my shop. I'm planning to run 50 amp service from the shop to an outside location for the coach? I know this is probably pretty simple stuff but I want to be clear with my electrician. And I'm a woodworker, not an electrician. Thanks.
Kevin Barron
98 Intrigue 40 #10550
Yahoo Message Number: 13959 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13959)
Hi Kevin,
Show the electrican the male plug on the end of your shore power cable - you want a receptacle to fit it and a dual 120 vac 50 amp circuit breaker to feed it.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 13960 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13960)
Fred,
Thanks. How is this different from 220v / 50amp service?
Kevin
Yahoo Message Number: 13961 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13961)
Hi Kevin,
Different - electric dryers take 240 vac (no neutral, just a safety ground). This connection is 4 wire - 2 120vac legs at 50 amps each, a neutral return and a safety ground. It is true that between the 2 legs the voltage is 240vac, but in your coach only 120vac is used with 50 amps on each leg or a 100 amps total capacity.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 13966 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13966)
Fred,
Isn't it 25 amps each leg with a 50 amp total capacity?
Arthur Block
02 Intrigue 11332
98 Chev Metro Toad
Yahoo Message Number: 13968 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13968)
Hi Art,
It's 50 amps each leg for shore power. Look at the main breakers in your circuit breaker box.
With a 8kw generator, it's 33.33 amps per leg.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 13972 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13972)
Fred,
You may be correct, but consider this:
1) A 30 amp circuit is rated for 30 amps and "breakered" for 30 amps at various campgrounds.
2) Seems that a jump to 100 amps would be a bit much - where as 50 amp (25 each leg) seems more in keeping with a capacity increase projection.
3) Most campgrounds with 50 amp service have dual 25 or 30 amp breakers on the pole to accommodate 25 amps per leg.
4) My 8.5 KW generator has dual 25 amp breakers to accommodate 25 amps per leg (even though, in theory, it could deliver 35 amps per leg)
5) Not sure why there are 50 amp breakers in the coach (I need to take your word on this since my coach is not handy to check it out), but keep in mind that breakers are needed to protect the wire from overheating from too much current passing through too thin a wire. Maybe the coach is wired with 50 amp cable on each leg to the circuit breaker box.
6) I have a 50 amp outlet in the back of my home where I park my coach. It is protected by dual 25 amp breakers. I have run both airs, along with the microwave and plenty of lights, along with a coffee pot and have not poped the breaker in the four years I have use the outlet. I pop the 20 amp (?) breakers on my inverter all the time.
I believe that we call it a 50 amp service because it is 50 amp service and not 100. Like I say - I could be wrong. What do you think?
Regards,
Arthur Block
02 Intrigue 11332
99 Chev Metro Toad
Yahoo Message Number: 13975 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13975)
Kevin
50 Amp service to the coach?
This must be 240 volts, 50 amps each leg. Wire it just like the electric range or oven that has 240 volt heaters and 120 volt lamps.
Your coach uses only 120 VAC loads, as some have written, but must have 240 VAC as the neutral lead can not handle 100 amps.
With every thing running on 50 amp 240 volt shore power, you might have 60 amps on one hot lead, 53 amps on other hot lead and 7 amps on neutral lead.
With every thing running on 50 amp 120 volt shore power, you might have 60 amps on one hot lead, 53 amps on other hot lead and 113 amps on neutral lead. Yes, 113 amps in a wire sized for 50 or less.
In VA recently, we had 50 amp service in a 40 year old park. Our coach indicated only 30 amp service was available and so kept switching off some appliances to meet 30 amp limit. I think the energy management system (EMS) was measuring only 120 VAC & so expecting only 30 amps available. The EMS can't see the park outlet, it must use voltage to figure available power.
So if you wire 50 amps, 120 Vac to your coach, it will probably only use 30 amps. 30 X 120 = 3600 watts. Given 240 VAC, 50 amps, your coach will use up to 12,000 watts. 240 X 50 = 12000.
Eric Elliott
5 Inspire 51321
Yahoo Message Number: 13977 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13977)
Eric, you describe it perfectly -- 240V between the two hot legs, 120V between each hot leg and neutral. Neutral will then carry between 0 and 50 amps, depending upon load balance.
However, while 60 amps on one leg and 53 amps on the other leg will produce 7 amps on the neutral, the example would have been better with 50 amps and 43 amps -- because each leg is protected with a 50 amp breaker which would have tripped in your example. :-)
As I have posted before on this forum: 30A service is ONE 30A 120V circuit (being shared by two legs in the coach using the 50A-30A adapter which splits the one circuit to both legs). 50A service is TWO 50A 120V circuits (one for each leg in the coach). If evenly balanced, 50A provides a total equivalent of 100A, vs the 30A -- there 333% more power with 50A service. This is a good trivia question in camp.
Herb
Allure 2002 #30690
Yahoo Message Number: 13984 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13984)
So, how does the inverter/converter affect all this? It appears that the shore power and generator output power all runs through the inverter/converter. Therefore, the loads I would think it would be limited to the capacity of the breakers on the inverter/converter.
In my case, my Heart 2000 would be limited to two 15A circuits.
Therefore, a total of 30A load.
Jim Hughes
2000 Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 13986 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13986)
Hi Art,
Let me answer your questions:
1)The campground 30 amp breaker is 120 vac. With the 30 amp adapter, you are feeding a one leg 120 vac to both legs in your coach. That's what the adapter does. So you get 120 vac instead of 240 vac and 30 amps total feeding the coach. By the way, for a 30 amp standard trip curve circuit breaker, at a 30 amp draw, it may take several hours for the breaker to trip, instant trip is 60 amps for that 30 amp breaker.
2) It is 50 amps each leg; look at your coach circuit breaker panel - main breakers; look at the breakers in the RV park - there are two 50 amp breakers.
3) Simply not true. There is a single 20 amp, single 30 amp and dual 50 amp breakers which are wired to the appropiate outlet.
4) I can't speak for yours, but the 8kw GenTech has two 35 amp circuit breakers and the generator is capable of delivering 33.33 amps per leg.
5) The coach is wired for dual 50 amp from the shore plug through the interrupter, the transfer switch to the circuit breaker panel. The same wiring is inplace from the generator to the transfer switch.
6) There are 4 circuit breakers on a 2000 watt heart converter - one
for 120vac input, one for the charger, one to the uwave outlet and one to the other outlets with one GFI outlet first inline.
It is called a 50 amp service but has a 100 amp capacity. Your dual 25 amp house outlet is therefore called a 25 amp service.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 13987 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13987)
Hi Herb,
If you have 50 amps in each leg, the neutral will be carrying between 0 and 100 amps. The neutral is designed to handle 100 amps. (Now in 3 phase service, a neutral can have a current in a Y connection if the loads are not balanced and a circulating current in a delta connection, but in contrast to single phase service, the neutral has little are no current. But this is single phase voltage.) Load balance by the owner in operating appliances does nothing other than keep one leg from going over 50 amps and tripping the circuit breaker in that leg. Now if you could plug in a 240 vac appliance, things would be different. Take a look at your CB panel - each leg feeds one a/c, one leg feeds the converter and the other the hot water heater. The converter feeds two outlets - one to the uwave and one to the GFI outlet which feeds the rest of the outlets. The balance is in place; operating too many applaiances at one time will probably trip the converter CB.
Your first and second paragraphs are incorrect.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 13992 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13992)
Hi Jim,
The statement is true except for the a/cs.
Fred Kovol
-
Yahoo Message Number: 13999 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13999)
I am doing the same thing but not until April so any answers to your question will be of interest to me also.
We are running buried conduit between the two buildings now and while the trench was open added spare conduits for telephone and cable (suggested by CC owners).
With cell phones and satellite TV we may never use the conduits but it was relatively inexpensive to buy the material and bury it while the trench was open.
Yahoo Message Number: 14000 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14000)
Dave,
Will do. But if you follow the threads to my original post, and don't get as confused as I am, we might just figure this out.
Kevin Barron
98 Intrigue # 10550
Yahoo Message Number: 14005 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14005)
Fred:
That surprises me that you say the neutral is designed to carry 100 amps. While that yellow 50A shore power cord is BIG, I can't imagine that it contains a #3 gauge Neutral wire require for 100A! Wouldn't it be bigger and thicker than it already is?
The wires (two hot and neutral) on the SurgeGuard are all the same size, and are not #3. Therefore, I still maintain that the neutral should not exceed 50A.
If properly wired, the two hot lines should have a 240V potential between them, and 120V to ground. Then if the two 50A circuits were fully loaded, the neutral would be zero amps, NOT 100A. Test it yourself with a clamp-on ampmeter. If only one leg is drawing 50A and the other is drawing zero, the neutral be also be 50A.
Herb
Yahoo Message Number: 14018 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14018)
Hi Herb,
You are right - the neutral carries the difference between the current in the two legs for a 240vac configuration to maintain 120vac across each leg. If the nuetral opens, then the voltage drop across each leg is based on the load(resistance) in each leg.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 14040 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14040)
Art,
Make sure your electrican puts the 50 amp box on the wall or stand the right way. Our electrican did everything right but he put the outlet upside down and it had to be turned around.
Yahoo Message Number: 14044 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14044)
Art I wish I had a off/on switch or breaker at the outlet if you turn off the juice when you plug in it prevent arking and possible damage to you outlet and or plug Bill Vincent
Yahoo Message Number: 14053 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14053)
From: "William Vincent" Willie-john@...>
If there's no switch on the power pedestal, I simply turn the coach's breakers off before plugging it in or unplugging it. It works for me!
Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97
Yahoo Message Number: 14054 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14054)
Ok you guys - let's clear the air! When you plug in the shore power cable or turn on the generator, the surge protector is an open circuit to any loads on your coach for 2 min 15 sec, so there no issue here.
For shore power plug removal, you have two options, turn off the CB at the RV outlet(receptible) box or turnoff the main CBs in your panel in the back or side or where ever CCI is installing them. By federal and state law there is a CB at the RV shore power box.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 14058 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14058)
The main reason for turning off the circuit breaker at the camground is safety. While plugging in or out, the hot pins are exposed and your fingers could slip onto them.
Yahoo Message Number: 14059 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14059)
If I had a nickel for every time there's no circuit breaker at the RV shore power box, I wouldn't be rich ... but I'd have a pocketful of nickels .
However, that's over 37+ years RVing.
Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97
Yahoo Message Number: 14060 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14060)
The main reason for turning off the circuit breaker at the camground is safety. While plugging in or out, the hot pins are exposed and your
fingers could slip onto them.
--------------------------
In addition, I also thought if not making good contact with the common on the plug you could get 240 volts into your coach until the common plug makes good contact.
George Becker
gwb36@...
1999 Country Coach Intrigue
Cummins isc350
Coach #10700
Yahoo Message Number: 14061 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14061)
I don't have a breaker close to my existing 50 A outlet at the house but based on the above comment will consider putting one next to the outside outlet when we wire the new barn.
Thanks.
Yahoo Message Number: 14062 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14062)
Air clearing number 2,
Folks, you have 240vac into your coach on plugin whether the neutral is making contact or not. As I mentioned in a previous response, the voltage on each leg can be different if the neutral is not connected, but plugs are make to prevent this. My biggest gripe with RV post outlets is they are mostly worn out and all contacts are poor leading to voltage drops and heating.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 14332 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14332)
Hello Everybody-
I've been lurking on the group here for awhile while I try to decide what brand and configuration of motorhome would be best for me to replace my current 5th wheel (which replaced my 1973 Travco). Still haven't made up my mind but I must say the support you give each other on this group is quite impressive and substantially better than the Monaco group.
I went to CES last week and saw something you all might be interested in. It is a low profile satellite TV dish receiver. Before I go any further let me say that I do not work for this company. I own an ISP in California which is why this caught my eye but I have no connection with the dish company whatsoever - nobody I know works there and I didn't even know about them until I wandered by their booth at CES.
You can see it at: http://www.raysat.us/products/speedray.asp (http://www.raysat.us/products/speedray.asp) They have a couple of pictures at this site.
Physically its profile reminded me of a round rooftop snowboard carrier - actually it more reminded me of the radar radome we had on the AWACS aircraft. They had the model sitting on top of a Ford Explorer and it covered most of the back half of the roof. But it only was about 6 inches high.
Inside was a rotating plate with three active element arrays. The plate (which reminded me of a big pizza pan) was about two feet in diameter - maybe slightly less. The individual arrays were rectangular - maybe 5 inches by slightly less than two feet. The plate could rotate so as to set azimuth and the individual arrays pivoted so as to set elevation.
They also had a smaller unit which has yet a lower profile but they only had the shell for display at CES so I couldn't see the interior workings. It uses the same pizza pan plate to rotate the arrays but the arrays are electronically, not mechanically aimed. Any of you who worked in aerospace well know the concept of electronically directed arrays.
They also advertised an option of a fourth array you could put on the rotating plate which would allow you to transmit to a satellite and thus replace these large motosat antennas some of you use.
In theory these are supposed to be capable of use while in motion.
I don't have any technical information on them - i.e. antenna gain, beamwidth and so forth. I think the larger one is available now but the smaller one they said wouldn't be available until 2006 some time. No - I don't know the pricing.
Nor do I know if they really work. Of course the sales folks at CES said they worked well but that is what I would have expected from them.
IF these things actually do work well, they are perfect for RV roofs. The profile is substantially lower than anything I've seen so far.
If anybody has one, please let us know how it performs. The concept is great but sometimes a great concept don't translate well to application. Time will tell on this one. Look for these things to start showing up on RV's.
Cheers,
Gerry
Yahoo Message Number: 14336 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14336)
Hi Gerry,
I also saw the Raysat antenna, but in the same hall was Wineguard(sp?) - had a similiar pancake antenna (multiple, phase array, plates).
Also, Delphi was showing a multi antenna for Wifi, cell phome, GPS, and salellite - it's on the Mercedes Benz and soon on the BMW.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 30172 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30172)
Assuming DirecTV: If you don't have a phone connection they can get snippy because they might lose payment for a PPV movie, etc.
I have been successful in avoiding this two ways. I leave a receiver at home hooked to the phone and/or tell them which receivers/cards are installed permanently in the rig or we take with us. They can send a signal which disables the PPVselection capability to those not attached to a phone. If you want to watch something while on the road call them and you can get it for an additional fee on top of the basic PPV fee or go on line as we do and order it. When you do the latter all your receivers will get the PPV program.
Bob Handren
'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL
Yahoo Message Number: 40969 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40969)
Lee,
Just had a new Motosat HD satellite dish installed on my coach with the 5 LNBs by Dale Morris of DMS Satellite. He did a great job and everything works great. Best part of the whole deal was that his cost was $1995.00 installed plus he gave me a trde-in of $200.00 for my old single head Motostat for a net cost of $1795.00. This was done while I was in Junction City. He was supposed to be a vendor at the rally but his newborn grandson needed open heart surgury. Since we had already set up an appt. for the rally he stopped off at Junction City and did mine. He is highly recommended by many coach owners. Just for fun I checked at the rally and both Advanced satellite and Sound Sensations quoted $2600.00 for the same thing.
Check his website at dmsrvsatellite.com. He told me he would be in the southwest for the winter.
Oh, by the way we use Dish Network and are very satisfied. As for the in motion satellite system, if you were at the rally you would have heard about the lady that was killed when the coach she was in blew a tire and she was thrown thru the front window when the bus rolled over. The bus ended up on top of her, killing her instantly.
She was seated in the passenger seat without a seat belt on. My wife now thinks twice about leaving her seat.
John and Merilee Flynn
2005 Allure 31143
Yahoo Message Number: 40970 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40970)
Some confusion here. I did not do the original inquiry about DISH vs DirecTV but was one of the respondents along the way. I already have a Motosat HD satellite dish installed on my coach with the 5 LNBs and 2 HD receivers. We've used DirectTV for 8 years and are too invested in hardware to consider switching. I've not seen a compelling case for one over the other - guess that's why they're both thriving. IMHO the whole DTV/DISH thing is like Fords or Chevys; Verizon or ATT - a fruitless debate, just go with how you are inclined. But that is one thing that is great about America - free choice!
I do agree that anyone wanting the TV on while driving is asking for trouble.
Lee
Yahoo Message Number: 40996 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40996)
Hi:
Thank you to all that responded to my Dish Vs. Direct question. I guess each is OK. I do not want moving TV. I will use a MotoSat 500 unless some on gives me something else to think about. Now...the question: Will Direct or Dish service the units (bedroom/front tv) in the coach?
Bob
2007, Allure 470
Yahoo Message Number: 13988 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/13988)
This is more than trivia. We burnt the neutral leg open in 1987. Before we understood why the coach appliances were performing oddly, the dog got shocked. Dog usually jumped to lower step, no problem. When she stepped up, without jumping, her body connected hot coach chassis to ground. Dog was very loud & afraid of coach for a while.
Eric Elliott
5 Inspire 51321
Yahoo Message Number: 14066 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14066)
Without checking current electrical code, I am sure a new 50 amp receptacle for whatever purpose is required to have a disconnect switch at receptacle.
A breaker is a switch & possible the least expensive switch. Did your electrician satisfy code?
In two recent cases at my house, having breakers within 20' & within 10 feet did not satisfy code, switches were required with replacement equipment.
The surge suppressor in my CC isolates shore power 2 minutes, so no power on surge is possible. We have occasionally switched to & from genset & shore power without losing any appliance function.
Yahoo Message Number: 14068 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14068)
Home Depot carries RV style weatherproof outlet boxes for either 30 Amp or 50 Amp Receptacles complete with circuit breakers and a 15 Amp, 120 volt duplex outlet. Less than $100. I have one on the power pole next to my driveway and it is very convenient.
Dave
2000 Allure 36'
#30444 Blt. Sept. 99
Yahoo Message Number: 14073 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/14073)
Eric,
We have a new RV house in florida with a 2200 SF garage with 2 sets of full hook up including two 50 amp outlets. The nearest circuit breaker is in the main panel on the garage wall 30 feet away, but I am going to start turning it off before I plug in. Never thought about that until now. Do it all the time in campgrounds so why not at home.
Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425