Yahoo Message Number: 789 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/789)
We have just recently purchased a used though with only 6,000 miles 36ft. magna and are wondering about the nhtsa recall on the front and or rear tires. Our front and rear tires are m111z-2&3, 12r225-16pr, max load 7200 psi/ max dual 6320 psi. Three of the four tires had the numbers m111z-2 and one at miiz-3. With the new tires I recieved one m111z-5 and another m111z-2. The nhtsa campaign number for the magna recall is :01v284000 and the recall number for the allure is : 01v17000. If any magna owner of the 2000 year model or other country coach members can help us figure out what numbers they have recieved or could help us clarify it sure would be most appreciated. Glad to members of the club: Paul&Michelle
Yahoo Message Number: 790 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/790)
Hello Paul and Michelle,
You have purchased one of my favorite coachs. The recall CC had on the front tires as I remember was due to improper tire inflation. In other words Country Coach is now sending there fine units out of the factory with max tire inflation to prevent the liability from falling on them, this covers them against the tire manufacturer. After the coach is retail sold I always tell my customers to load it up and get it weighed (4 corner).
From there you can refer to your brown file folder from CC and look for your Toyo tire manual which has a tire inflation chart. This way you can release some tire pressure to suit your weight and create a softer ride.
Now every coach is different depnding on options and load, but as an example I just had a 2002 - 40' Magna dual slide weighed. These people were fulltimers, they had it loaded up heavy and all tanks, I mean ALL tanks were full. We had it weighed and worked the chart. After that I faxed all the paperwork to Les Schwab and they concured that 100psi in the front, 90psi in the rear, and 80 psi in the tag all cold would be perfect for this specific coach.
Now back to the recall, some CC models were sent out of the factory with say 100psi of air in front when the tire says max tire inflation is 120.lbs or more, even though you "probably" dont need 120psi to cover CC against any liability they are replacing those front tires with new ones and asking the service centers to inflate the new tires to 120psi, from there you can adjust it to your weight. To start I would look up your 4 digit CC number which can be found on an exterior label just aft of your entry door (or behind the medicine cabinet door), it will probably start with a 5 (example 5941). Take that number and call CC service at 800-452-8015 and get to "chassis service", they should be able to tell you if your coach has new front tires. There is also a ride hieght valve "update" you can inquire about as well.
Good Luck,
Damon
Yahoo Message Number: 792 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/792)
Hi Paul,
We have a 2000 36 ft Magna, sn 5762, that was built in 1999. I'm still waiting for the two tires CC offered to replace those in the front, so I don't yet know the "-" numbers on them.
I am curious to know more about how CC is determining whether front, rear or all tires should be replaced. According to my current federal tire label inside the coach, the (cold) front and rear tire inflation pressures should be 85# and 90# respectively. Since those pressures are indadequate for both the FAWR and RAWR, it seems like they should have offered to replace all 6 tires vs. only the front two.
If you know how CC determined how many tires should be replaced on your coach, please post.
Thanks,
Paul Thomas
Titusville, FL
Yahoo Message Number: 797 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/797)
I suggest you call cc and ask for david king at ext 283, he was very helpful to me today and corrected what I had been told by a service center in fla dave
Yahoo Message Number: 791 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/791)
Hi Damon:
It was so nice to finally have someone write something positive and knew what they are talking about. I am on my third Country Coach and now have a 40ft. Magna which I love. I have known about the weight thing for a long time, I had a 1990 Concept before this. I always weigh my coach loaded and then calculate the tire pressure accordingly. The only thing I do different from other folks is I have my tires siped because we are skiers and do some winter driving when we go to Colorado and Utah.
We spend a big part of our Summers in Minnesota with my wife's folks and hope to meet you sometime when we are in your neighborhood.
Sincerely,
Mark Layton
Yahoo Message Number: 6984 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6984)
I own a 36 ft. 99 Intrigue and would like to replace the 275 - 75 - 22.5 tires with larger tires. I would appreciate any comments that you would be willing to share with me.
Thanks
Vaughn Scales
Yahoo Message Number: 6985 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6985)
Vaughn: I have some insite that I hope will help. First of all, I have some strong confirmations concerning the age replacement theory. It seems clear among tire experts both within and outside the RV industry that tires will deteriorate with age and become unsafe. This is particularly true when dealing with R.V.s that are parked for long periods of time. Flat spots weaken the structure of the tire, etc. Even though the tire appears good, like mine, from being parked in a garage when not in use, the age factor is still a strong one. Experts recommend replacement for safety sake at five years. Those who ignore that advise (like me) are at much greater risk for tire failure.
As to the size issue, I have a 99 Intrigue with 275 70 22.5 low profile tires. After my tire failure, I called Country Coach Tech's and asked about replacement size that would not interfere with suspension, etc. Two tech's conferred and came up with the idea to send my request to engineering because they were not working at CC during the tire recall in 1999 and didn't have the answer. At this point, 12 days later, Country Coach has not favored me with any response. I will be surprised if they call or E-mail me. They are far to busy with serious problems like we all had during the first couple of years.
I received an answer from a source I beleive to be reputable: The Les Schwab dealer is Junction City is the supplier of tires and batteries to Country Coach. The man in the know is Rob Dickman @ 800 257-8430. These folks know what's going on at Country Coach much better than some service tech's.
By the way, these folks took the Smart Tire system and modified it to accomodate 40' models, with an antenna system. They supply manufacturers like Country Coach and Monaco with Smart Tire systems with the modification. I ordered my system from Rob and will install it with my new tires.
Rob remembers the recall of front tires in 1999 and was involved in the replacement of many steering axle tires. As a "band-aid" fix, they went to 11R 22.5 on the front of several galley-slide models while leaving the low profile tires on the rear. To me that was a hokey thing to do. I think the manufacturer should have changed all of the tires.
Sorry to ramble, but here's his take on it: Most larger tires will fit, but present the risk of severe damage if you have an suspension air bag failure. Apparently the clearance is inadequate and the failure of an air bag would set the chassis down onto a larger tire and cause some serious things to happen. Therefore, the only size he can recommend for upgrading is a 275 80 22.5. They are larger; fatter tires. They are only manufacturered by Michelin and Continental, according to my local Les Schwab dealer. Most larger tires require wider wheel size. That's why these specific tires alone will work. There may be other ones that are the same diameter, but wheel size is not the same.
My local Les Schwab dealer quoted me $2,084.76 for six Continentals, mounted and balanced.($300.00 per tire) His price for Michelins was $2,766.25. Michelins are $86.00 per tire more.
I'm waiting for my Smart Tire system to arrive, then I'm going to make the switch. It seems that the low profile tires we have are very unpopular and have little casing value.
It is interesting to note that the low profile tires do carry a high load rating capacity. You don't gain much with larger tires, but they look better and apparently will give a little better ride. Who knows.
BTW: When you ask me a question it's like scratching a pup behind the ear. The next thing you know he jumps in your lap and you can't get rid of him.
Larry
Intrigue
10762
Yahoo Message Number: 6990 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6990)
Larry, Have you talked to anyone about how the Coach drives and handles with Continental or Michelins vs Toyo tires. My Coach drives great and I don't want to change how it drives.
I agree the coach would look better with larger tires, but my reason for wanting larger tires is to lower my RPM's a little when running out in the flats.
I have planty of power in the mountains so I would give up a little there to gain lower RPM's other places.
Thanks for the information Vaughn Scales
Yahoo Message Number: 6994 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6994)
Vaughn: Who know the truth? My local dealer tells me that Michelin has a softer ride due to a softer sidewall. The Continental has more steel in (?) He quoted me $265.00 per tire for Continental but couldn't give me the Michelin price until he talk to the distributor. That size wasn't on his screen or something.
I received my Smart Tire equipment today and I'm going to install the dash unit and antenna tomorrow.
I'll probably bite the bullet and go for the Michelins. No regrets that way.
What the he** if I leave it to my kids, they will just fight over it. Might as well spend it while I'm here!
Anybody want to buy some 275 70 22.5 Toyo's that look brand new? I have five of them. Maybe make good schoolyard swings, huh?
Larry
Intrigue 10762
Yahoo Message Number: 6997 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6997)
Larry and Vaughn,
Are your original tires not on the recall that came out first part of this year. I have a '99 Allure and my tires were on the recall.
I had bought two Michelens earlier because of uneven wear and poor handling and then I got my six new Toyos and made a deal with the tire guy that does all of the tire works for Buddy Gregg in Dallas and got four more Michelens. What an improvement in ride!!!!
Egon
'99 Allure
'03 Tahoe Z71 toad
Yahoo Message Number: 6998 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6998)
When I see comments abou tthe 12R x 22.5 rubbing the coach BADLY...IF the ride height "valves"..?? go out...isnt there some sort of "safety device" or ?? that keeps that from happening? Or is it as simple as when the ride height things go out..you have "instant" coach damage from the taller tires??
If that true....that sure SUCKS !!! I WANT 12R's for their height and capacity...but geeze??
Yahoo Message Number: 6999 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/6999)
Larry and Vaughn,
Hi Larry,
My coach is a 2000 Intrigue 36'.
I have changed my tires from the original Toyo 275.70X22.5 to Michelin XZA-2 275.80X22.5 Load Range H. I discussed this with CC prior to the refit and Doug Rutherford recommended the change. I have been very satisfied with the upgrade. The tires run much cooler and the coach tracks and steers better. I now have 10K miles on the tires. I recalibrated my speedometer as well, however,I had upgraded the speedo to the VDO as used in the 2000 Magna some time ago, so the calibration procedure is different from the original Datcon. The rim width, 8.25, is correct for the Michelin 275.80. One other advantage is I picked up 1/2 mile per gal due to the increased diameter.(Larry,I believe the 295.80 you mentioned is too large to fit so you might re-check that). Hope this answers some
of your questions.
Denny F
Yahoo Message Number: 7003 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7003)
I spoke to Rob at Bob Dickman tire Center in Junction City. He indicated the problem with taller tires was the potential for sudden tire failure in the event of a loss of the air bag, not the leveling device.
Apparently the suspension will allow the body to drop down onto the tire if the bag fails. He said the company reworked the suspension on later models to allow adequate clearance.
The dreaded scenario (I suppose) is the freeway speed loss of air in a bag and the body dropping down onto the tires and either causing tire failure and/or parts coming unglued from the event. It doesn't appear to be a high-probability event does it?
I was impressed that with my tire blowout, that sounded like an explosion, the heavy gauge inner panel did a good job of limiting the damage to the loss of the small mud flap.
Perhaps you could check yours by dumping the air out of the system and see if the rear tires hit the top of the housing. I'm not sure you could see or feel up there. but it may let you know if you have a potential problem.
Larry
Intrigue
10762
Yahoo Message Number: 7004 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7004)
The coachs built form the factory with 12R tires have a taller frame rail to allow for clearance, so what you described will not occur.
This would happen on the early 2000 and older coachs that came from the factory with 275/70 (low profile) tires if they were replaced with a tire that was to tall (11R/12R)
Damon
Yahoo Message Number: 7008 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7008)
Larry, What is different about the smart tire that you are getting ? Money is a factor but I plan to look at the Michelins pretty strong.
Vaughn Scales
Yahoo Message Number: 7009 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7009)
Egon, I didn't receive a notice that my tires was on recall so I assume they were not.
Vaughn Scales
Yahoo Message Number: 7010 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7010)
Denny, Is your 2000 Intrigue and early 2000 or late 2000? My 99 sets lower than some of the 2000 models.
Vaughn Scales
Yahoo Message Number: 7011 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7011)
RE: 12Rx22.5 (have them)
I lost a rear ride height control valve on I-10 in West Texas two weeks ago.
Noticed a 'lot more bounce' in the rear end of the coach and could hear a grumble out of the drive shaft at times. The rear tire did lightly rub the frame rail but only during a few big bounces. No damage noted to the frame or the tire. (just rubbed the undercoating off a little)
Pulled the fuse (under direction of CC tech support) in the HWH leveling system, leveled up the coach and drove to a Coach Care shop in Ocala Florida. Thankfully the coach was still in warranty by a few days.
I like the 12R Toyo tires, mine have made two trips up and down the Alaska Hwy*.
They show NO signs of damage or tread wear to my un-trained eye.
Jim Cook
2002 Intrigue #11446
www.al7rv.net
*The ALCAN is paved (or good tar/chip) 100% of the way now, execpt where they are repaving it.
And they are repaving a lot of it. .
Yahoo Message Number: 7012 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7012)
Hi Vaughn,
My 2000 Intrigue is CC#10938 and that's an early 2000 so it's basically the same hight as your '99. The mid-year change raised the frame clearance 3" to accomodate the larger 12R tires. Also, contrary to some opinions, my coach does have the Neway IFS as all 2000's do.
However, the clearance should be the same on your '99. If you have room for 1" more clearance at the top, with the air bags down, you'll be able to change to the larger 275X80's with no problem. I have talked to several '98-'99 coach owners that have made this change at CCI rallies. As I stated, I was satisfied with the tracking and ride with the Toyo's, but have noted improvement with the Michelins. The Michelin is noted for being a good steering tire, and as Larry pointed out, the sidewalls are softer which tends to make for a smoother ride. Both Bridgestone and Continental make this size as well. The Michelins are considerably more expensive then either of the other two brands. However, after reading and discussing with truck owners, tire people, CC, and other coach owners, I chose the Michelins.
Denny F.
Yahoo Message Number: 7013 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7013)
Hi Vaughn, I respectfully suggest you make a call to the factory and confirm that your coach is not part of the recall.
Country Coach has made a very concerted effort to reach all owners involved but there is a limit to what they can do, especially for second or third owners where the location of the coach or last known address is unknown.
The USPS is good but still collects a huge amount of undeliverable mail.
Alternatively, you could list your coach number here and maybe some other owners with closely adjacent numbers will respond and let you know their situation regarding the tires.
David & Karen CA.
2000 Intrigue 11062
40 ft Single slide. PT
2002 Odyssey TOAD
Yahoo Message Number: 7015 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7015)
Vaughn: Smart Tire Tech's told me that the only way to monitor high-pressure tires on a 40' motor home was with the modified system developed and sold by Rob Dickman at Les Schwab Tire in Junction City.
O received the system yesterday. It has an external antenna that is 25' long. It is designed to go under the motor home and hang down a few inches under the center of the body where it can get a clear signal from all tires.
The factory system has a smaller antenna that remains within the dash board of an average car/truck.
The system from Schwab costs $625.00 and i'm installing it myself.
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 7016 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7016)
I was told by CCI that my coach, a dinette slide was exempt from tire recall. Only the galley slide models.
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 7062 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7062)
Hi Larry,
Regarding the use of 275/80s, did you get this in writing or just verbally? I'd like to see Country Coach step up and put this in writing for all of us if indeed you did get it in writing. I have yet to get this in writing.
When you say they run cooler, what temp are they running at and at what speed and psi? Are you using smart tire to monitor this? My left rear tires run hotter than the rest, is that your observation as well? Left inside rear running at 160 degrees at 110 psi and 65mph, Left rear out side is around 150 degrees rest of tires running around 140-145 according to smart tire... All tires are running at 110psi cold. Not sure how accurate smart tire really is. This is based on one 5 day trip we just completed 650 miles round trip to Key West. We had packed very little and did not have a toad either, it was our checkout run to find out what works and doesnt work. It goes back to the dealer next week to fix a "few" minor things...
Regarding the 275/80s here is my story.....
I just recently bought a 2000 Allure LaPine 40' galley slide, #30431 which has the 275/70 tires, the previous owner had put 6 new bridgestones on the coach 6 months ago
Yahoo Message Number: 7072 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7072)
Interesting..?? My 36 ft Allure gally slide came with aluminum wheels and 12R x 22.5 Toyos..??
Yahoo Message Number: 7073 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7073)
Interesting..?? My 36 ft Allure gally slide came with aluminum wheels and 12R x 22.5 Toyos..?? Coach is # 30549
Yahoo Message Number: 7074 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7074)
Approximately Mid year model 2000 they went to the 12R tires on a higher raised frame. 12R tires only work with the new higher chassis...
Yahoo Message Number: 7075 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7075)
I am really interested in experiences and opinions comparing CC and Foretravel because I plan on purchasing a 2000 or newer motorhome within a year. I have narrowed my search to Country Coach and Foretravel. It seems that the Foretravel owners tend to compare Foretravel with Bluebird rather than with Country Coach, I have no interest in Bluebird. I drove a 2004 Country Coach and Foretravel last month and was surprised to find the CC handled and rode better, was quieter, and had fewer rattles. Both units were 36 foot slides.
Does anyone else have experience with a comparison of a newer CC and FT (2001 or newer)? I fully expected the FT to "blow away" the CC but just the opposite happened. I put them both through their paces, through hills and windy, bumpy roads and tight maneuevers. Why did CC seem better? Was this a fluke? They were both new units and handled well but the clear edge went to the CC. The only thing I can guess is that the IFS in the CC has made significant improvements over previous coaches and because of it, it handles much better. Also, I heard rumors that FT tried putting IFS on their coaches but was unable to make it work right. I think CC modeled theirs after Prevost and it seems to be highly acclaimed. Your experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Steve
Yahoo Message Number: 7076 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7076)
I can't give you any comparison between CC & FT, only CC & Monaco. But since my CC is a 36', to compare with a 40' Monaco may not be fair. My suggestion is that you drive the CC extensively on the freeway. Mine handles well on curves where constant correction is necessary. It is freeway environments that I do not like.
Doug 03 Allure 36' double slide.
Yahoo Message Number: 7079 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7079)
steve: They could compare them to Roll-Royce's and it still has no bearing on what they truly make...*S*
I compared ForeTravels to C Coaches for a long time...and finally came to the decision that what they offered VS cost over what I really needed just wasnt worth the $$ difference. Thats not to say they dont make a very nice rig...because they do...for sure. You'll never hear me bad mouth a Foretravel..because I think their rigs are top notch...as I do C Coaches.
Concerning IFS. Foretravel doesnt have a "frame" as such. They use "monoque" ( SP) ( I never could spell that word..lol) type of construction. And with no frame per se it would be VERY difficult to transmit the loads from the IFS into their "structure". Not to say it cant be done...but engineering wise alone would cost a BIG WAD of $$.....money I doubt ForeTravel wants to incure.
Either company makes a very fine product that Im sure would satisfy you.
Yahoo Message Number: 7084 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7084)
Larry,
Which Smartire system do you get? Was it the Gen I or II system? I recently purchased the Gen II system and installed the receiver, display and antenna in the coach and the transmitters in my towed vehicle. Waiting for the high pressure transmitters to be available for the coach wheels. Understand that they will be available early next year. Or, did you find a soyrce for them now?
Jim Hughes
Allure #30511
Yahoo Message Number: 7092 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7092)
Jim: I bought the Gen I High pressure for the coach only. I'm installing new tires, so it's the only thing available. I guess I will just go without the toad being monitored. It doesn't present the life threatening blowout does and we are leaving in a couple of weeks.
Larry
Intrigue 10762
Yahoo Message Number: 7106 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7106)
They did offer independent front suspencion as an option in2002 and 3, but don't know if they still do. TWI
Yahoo Message Number: 7114 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7114)
YOu're looking at two well-made coaches in my opinion, but here's our 2 cents...we didn't ever drive a Foretravel, but we happened to be in a park where they were having a Foretravel rally, so we got to look at a lot of them and overhear comments from owners. Most owners were happy, but like everyone, nobody had found "the perfect coach." We felt that the cabinetry of the FT was superior, but when we really compared floorplans and storage, the Foretravel lost out to our current CC Intrigue. Storage in a Foretravel was very poor, we felt. We fulltime and storage and floorplan are a key component to us...the CC wins out on that. We love the way our CC handles and rides, so have no need or interest to change.
Figure out what is important to you on a priority list and then do your assessment with that. For some folks, the amenities are more important than ride, etc. GOod luck...
Jan McNeill, Fulltimer
2001 Intrigue 11320
Yahoo Message Number: 7117 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/7117)
A short story: We picked up our new Ovation Friday at 4:00 pm , unloaded our 36' Allure and arrived at the ralley at 11:30 the next morning. Try that with a Foretravel, where the step tread makes you turn your feet 90 deg. from your entry direction, and almost fall on your face. I still think FT African interior in 98 coaches with their home made corian was the best motor home interior ever made.
But as Mr alexander of FT said , you either loved it or hated it.
When we go tirekicking I always look at FT first, but the bang for the buck is not there, even if they are 1ooo miles closer, and they don't have Doug, Kevin, Pat Mason, or Carolyn Cgzell. How many of you know the last two. One'.s in product development, the other co- ordinates factory deliveries. TWI/CD. Allue 30255, Intrigue 11731.
Anyone know who bought my 98 Allure from Beaudry in Tucson. I need to tell you some stories. The best is the TRIP FROM HELL or How to loose your coach injection pump and your tow car transmission in one trip.
.
Yahoo Message Number: 8871 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/8871)
I believe I will have two 12R22.5 toyos with 3000 miles in Eugene, OR next week if anyone is interested. I am putting Michelins on the front so these will be surplus. They will be held at a tire company in so will be easy to find and easy to mount if need be. The Michelins are close to $500 each. I didn't check on toyo prices. $200 ea sounds fair to me.
Doug 03 Allure 30929.
Yahoo Message Number: 19480 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19480)
Our coach is in the tire recall bunch. We just got new Toyos 2 years ago, darn!! Anyway, the choices are Goodyear 670 RV tire or 2 Michelin tires XZA or XZA 2 (I think that is what they said). Any experience with either of these tires? Toyo does not make tires in our size any longer.
Thanks,
Linda & Don
Intrigue 10678
Yahoo Message Number: 19481 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19481)
Can't give you the exact numbers but we had Michelin's on all our previous diesels and did not have any problems with any of them.
Sue
'05, 42' Allure 31254
Yahoo Message Number: 19513 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19513)
Linda: I went with Michelin 275 80 R 22.5. The tire is about 2 inches taller than the 70 series. I like the larger tire look because it fills up the wheelwell better. CCI tech's cautioned me that if I lost air in the rear bag the body could fall onto the tire and cause trouble.
I have to dump all the air to get my coach in my garage and it still rolls freely. I can't get a finger in between the tire and the sidewall framework but it doesn't rub.
As far as ride goes, I can't tell the difference. I just like the larger tires grrrrrrrrrr!
Larry
Intrigue
10762
Yahoo Message Number: 19514 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19514)
Larger tires are also a big advantage on rough or unpaved roads, they will often run across potholes rather than going in them.
Chris Bradley
1999 Intrigue 10807
1993 Affinity 4952 (for sale)
Yahoo Message Number: 19520 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19520)
While that's technically true, it's more significant when comparing the pothole-crossing-performance difference between a typical (there are exceptions) motor scooter's smaller diameter tires compared to a full-size motorcycle's much larger diameter tires.
BTW ... 80-series tires weigh more than the equivalent brand/model 70-series tires. It takes longer to accelerate this heavier rotating mass, therefore resulting in slower acceleration. And it takes longer to stop the heavier rotating mass, therefore resulting in longer stopping distance. Although the difference would be significant in a car, I don't know how significant it is in a heavy motorhome. Maybe not very ...
Dick (& Geri) Campagna (former Motorcycle Safety Foundation instructor) '98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97
(still not sold)
Yahoo Message Number: 19523 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19523)
Hi Dick,
We have a lot in common, I have been riding motorcycles since I was a kid and am lucky enough to have a wife that enjoys riding with me.
What happens when you sell your coach, are you giving it up or getting another?
Chris Bradley
1999 Intrigue 10807
2004 Suzuki V-Strom
Yahoo Message Number: 19557 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19557)
Did you recalibrate your speedometer and odometer with the larger tires?
Jim Hughes
2000 Allure 30511
Yahoo Message Number: 19680 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19680)
Glen: I tend to be a bit skeptical with the opinion of the tire shop employee (or employees) who say that the larger tires would alter the performance of the coach. Workload on the engine? I doubt it. Mileage? What's that?
The only perceptible difference I can tell is that the speedometer reads a little slow at 55 mph and higher.
I have always liked the ride from the air suspension and aside from the need of new shock absorbers at around 35,000 miles, I have not felt the coach rides or handles any differently with the slightly larger tires.
I do find a discrepancy between the mileage calculator in the Silverleaf and the odometer. On average they are pretty close. Again, there isn't an exact science in these machines because of all of the variables: Generator running, Idle time, Terrain, etc and I can't see how anyone could accurately peg the mileage difference.
That's just my humble opinion, which I find is often subject to argument, especially where my wife of 45 year is concerned (just kidding dear)
Larry
Intrigue
10762
Yahoo Message Number: 19681 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19681)
Hi Folks,
If you install larger tires, the speedometer reading will be lower by the same amount at any speed. As an example - my CJ7 has oversize tires, going 55 mph down the road, the speedometer reads 50; going 65 mph, it reads 60; going 25 mph; it reads 20, and so on (now below 25 things are non-linear).
I have checked this many times with radar in our town and elsewhere.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 19687 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19687)
Fred,
If the new tires have a diameter of 2% more than the older ones, your speedometer reading will decrease by 2% (relative to the speed you're going). It is a simple linear math equation. You must have somethinmg else that isn't working/reading right if you measure things differently.
Yahoo Message Number: 19688 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19688)
Fred......Simple answer...go to Cat or Cummins and they will calibrate for you. The axle ration is stamped on the housing, and from this they can set the correct revolutions into the ECU. I had this done three years ago after replacing tires. I am sure the speedometer was never calibrated from day on. I now get speedometer and odometer very, very close to Silverleaf and my GPS readouts now.
Max
98 Affinity #5487
Yahoo Message Number: 19689 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19689)
The specs for each tire typically list a RPM(revolutions per mile) which can easily be used to figure the correction factor. Example...if the original
tire has an RPM of 525 and the new tire has an RPM of 500 then the new indicated speed will be 500/525 = ~95% of actual speed...i.e.: 50mph indicated = 52.6mph actual
60mph indicated = 63.2mph actual
70mph indicated = 73.7mph actual
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX
Yahoo Message Number: 19690 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19690)
Max: I'm a little confused. (I was born confused) What will changing the setting in the ECU do for the speedometer. Don't you have to have a chart from the speedometer manufacturer to reset he dip switches on the back according to the percentage of error?
It's an interesting topic, because right after I changed the tires, I drove past an electronic speed sign down in my neighborhood, you know that kind that reads your speed so you approach the sign and displays it digitally?
The speed limit is 30 mph. I drove past it a couple of times and my speedometer read just a tad under 30 when the display on the sign read 30 or 31 mph. When out on a trip recently with a friend in a new Dutch Star on a Freightliner Chassis, we talked back and forth on the CB's. At a constant 65mph I am reading 57 to 58 mph on my speedo.
Therefore, I assumed that the error increased along with the speed. Fred says "not so".
Frankly, I'm not obsessed over the error enough to go to great lengths to fix it. Life is too short. I seldom, if ever, drive over 65mph, even in the 75 zones out here in the West.
What little mileage I get seems to drop drastically when I'm pushing the limit and I feel more comfortable to smile and waive at the Hot Rodders doing 20 miles over. I usually pass them at the rest stops anyway.
Larry
Intrigue
10762
Yahoo Message Number: 19693 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19693)
Larry, the number of revs per mile is the factor that is entered in the ECU. That is the information that displays in Silverleaf. It is used in several calculations. The estimated fuel left in tank, the consumption, the total miles on coach, the trip meters and probably some that I have forgotten. My speedometer reads a few thousand less than the engine reads, which leads me to believe that it was never calculated from the outset. However, since having Cat in Eugene reset my engine parameters everything is close now. Just a little shy on the odometer, so I guess it will look a little better at trade time.
Yahoo Message Number: 19697 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19697)
With or without help from the CHP? GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
David and Karen
Coachless in Sisters!
2002 Honda Odyssey TOAD
Yahoo Message Number: 19701 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/19701)
Speed error is a percentage not a flat figure. The faster you drive the greater the error will be displayed in MPH but the percentage will remain the same.
Dave Di
2000 Allure 30443
Yahoo Message Number: 23591 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/23591)
After reading the recent discussion of tires, I thought you might be interested in these high tech tires as possible replacements.
Chuck Penque
03 Intrigue 11673
Yahoo Message Number: 23592 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/23592)
i have this kind of tires on my magna dont like then ride to rough
Yahoo Message Number: 27245 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/27245)
Ha anyone purchased coach tires from VE Tire Center in Eugene? I heard that they are more competitive on pricing than Schwab in JC.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 38225 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/38225)
It is time to replace all of my coach tires. I have been pricing Michelins, Hankook, Goodyear and B.F. Goodrich. The Michelins are extremely pricey and there is an availability issue with the Goodyear G670. I had some good response on the B.F. Goodrich, and the Hankook have been installed on motorhomes in my area, so it's not a new thing.
I have not however talked to any users of the Hankook. Any suggestions on experience, or a suitable substitute for the Michelins?? I put the question out to another group and the tire of choice was the Michelin, no mention of another brand. One tire dealer said that the B.F.Goodrich was made by Michelin and that I would be more than happy with them.
Fred Sage '01 Magna #5983 '08 Honda CR-V
Yahoo Message Number: 38226 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/38226)
I just replaced all 6 of mine with Michelin XZE, 12R22.5s with no regrets. The goodyear-dealer installer was amazed on how easy the Michelins were to spin balance. Two required no weights and all required much less weights than previous Toyos. Wife says the Michelins are quieter and smoother riding. I have to agree.
Larry 03 Allure 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 38233 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/38233)
Fred,
In August 2007, I went to a local truck tire dealer for my 4 rear drive tires and came away with Yokohama RY023LRH 295/75R22.5 all position tires from TDS for $1496. They recommended these as drive tires for my rig. These are what they stick on the local school buses, coal trucks, local-haul rigs, etc. I made the mistake of paying $950 for two front GoodYear G670LRH tires in 2006 (considerably more nowadays). Next time I will go local and ask for two steer tires - probably Yokohama tires.
These have worked out great so far. What's more, if I get them back to the dealer inside of 5 years, he will buy them back and can resell them since they are a heavily used model here. He cannot re-sell them if they are more than 5 years old.
These are referred to as a "Regional" tire and not a "Long Haul" tire.
These take a little more abuse and are designed for use intermittently as in drive all day, stop a day or few days, hit a curb, etc. A "Long Haul" tire is designed more for constant highway use and are generally worn out from mileage in less than a year - sometimes as few as 6 or 7 months. The "Long Haul" tires also are hard-riding.
After out-of-round experiences with Michelin on my previous rig, and the comments about blowouts that I've read in various forums, I will never buy them again. So far, the GoodYears on the front are doing OK, I'm noticing a little edge wear - just that the current price for them is really high - when you can find them.
Mike
'95 Magna #5266
c100495 wrote:
Yahoo Message Number: 38234 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/38234)
I just had to do the same. Believe it or not I got a good price on Michelin XZA-3 275 80R225's "H" rated (which is the CC recommendation for '98 Intrigue) at Camping World (go figure).
I always try to avoid Camping World for anything because of their high prices but they were within $30/tire of every outlet I could find in South Florida. My net out the door was $3,556 with stems and balancing and all taxes. I actually could beat their price at two tire outlets but they were not national chains so I avoided them since we are always in a different part of the country.
I decided to pay a little more and go with Camping World because when I have problems I can go back to Camping World if I am not able to get the problem handled anywhere else.
The last time I purchased tires for my RV I purchased Goodyear and I had a problem with tread separation on one tire. Every Goodyear Truck tire dealer I went to gave me a different prorate price for adjustment (9,000 miles and 2 years) and they had to have their money before they would order the replacement tire. Two actually refused to handle it saying the tread separation was a vehicle problem, not the tire.
I had a friend that purchased Michelin XZA2's from Camping World and he developed a bulge in one tire. He went to Camping World (a different one than where had purchased the tire) and they replaced his 30,000 mile 3 year old tire within two hours at no charge and he was on his way.
I realize my luck may not be that good but I know working with truck tire dealers is not my favorite thing to do. I know some home town dealers are quite good but when a problem occurs and you are 1,500 miles away you are at the mercy of the local guy.
I have no problem paying $30/tire more to know I can always start a mail campaign with Camping World and Michelin if I feel I'm mis- treated and I have a better chance that one of the two will see it my way.
IMHO I will happily pay up to $800 more for a set of tires from a dealer that will provide some level of comfort and a feeling of well being while still offering a safe product.
Joey
'98 Intrigue #10540, '07 Camry
Yahoo Message Number: 38238 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/38238)
Tires are probably the most important safety item on our coaches. I would not skimp on tires. I have Michelin XZ2's on my coach. They ride and handle great and have about 50% weight safety margin on the front and about 30% on the back. Allows me to run 95 PSI front and 75 PSI rear and keep tire temps below 110 dF. The weight safety margin gives me a lot of piece of mind. They were close to $500 each.
I put Goodyear R670's on my old Fleetwood and was VERY happy with those as well. It's all about load ratings though. Doesn't pay to put cheap tires on a coach. You'll get away with it for awhile but eventually you'll have a blow-out.
"You get what you pay for" doesn't always apply but with tires I'm convinced it does.
Don't skimp on the tires is my advice. The Michelins are great and so are the Goodyears just get a load rating that has a good margin for your coach.
Yahoo Message Number: 38239 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/38239)
AMEN
Jim Spivey Allure 470 31432
Yahoo Message Number: 46826 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/46826)
We learned today that a couple in our park in Florida had a serious accident on I-95 near Jacksonville due to a tire failure. Their coach was a 2001 with low mileage, but had the original tires. The right front tire blew and they went off the road and hit a tree 12 inches in diameter killing his wife. The generator was purportedly driven back past the front suspension. There has been a lot of talk on this site about tires and in some instances people seem reluctant to replace tires that from an outward appearance appear to be perfectly good, but the five year rule of replacing the tires is cheap insurance. Gene 10920 --- On Tue, 4/14/09, Gene Clendenin wrote:From: Gene Clendenin Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Bahia Honda State ParkTo: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 4:48 PM No, I was trying several days in advance. We decided to leave the coach in Miami and drive to the Keys. We stopped at the campground and wanted to go in and check it out, but refused to pay $7.00 admission. We viewed the campground from a highway bridge coming back and there did not appear to be a lot of motor coach sites. The KOA in Key West wanted $125.00, leaving the coach in Miami and doing day trips worked well. Gene10920--- On Tue, 4/14/09, geklima@comcast. net wrote:From: geklima@comcast. net Subject: Re: [Country-Coach- Owners] Bahia Honda State ParkTo: Country-Coach- Owners@yahoogrou ps.comDate: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 4:31 PM
Gene,
I gather you were trying to get a space for the samw day as a walk in.
George
Yahoo Message Number: 49583 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/49583)
Need some help locating a good place to buy and have spin balanced tires for my CC Allure. I live in the Columbia SC area, but I am willing to travel some to get the best deal and purchase from a reliable company. I need 12R 22.5 load range H and want to have them spin balanced, not the powder or beads method. I am leaning toward the Bridgestone R250F tires. Any good experiences would be appreciated.
Gordon
2002 Allure 30690
Yahoo Message Number: 49584 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/49584)
I know of a place in Knoxiville Tn. that has done several friends coaches I am going in Sept to have new tires on our coach I dont have the info with me at present but if you are interested in traveling to Knoxville email me and I will give you the name and ph #
Tommy Townsend
2006 CC magna #6584m
Yahoo Message Number: 57228 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/57228)
Does anyone have an opinion about how Continental tires compare to the Toyo 12R 22.5?
Thanks
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 58683 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/58683)
I know this topic has been discussed to death!! However I would like to hear what you all have to say about Hancock tires for the 4 rear tires. My rear tires are the original Toyos that were put on the coach 12 years ago and its time to put them to bed. I've read all the post concerning all the top brands.
Input anyone?
Steve
1998 Intrigue #10557
Yahoo Message Number: 58693 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/58693)
If I get 12 years out of my Toyos then I know what I will be replacing them with.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046. 6 year old Toyos in great shape using Sun Block for Tires
Yahoo Message Number: 58720 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/58720)
WOW, 12 years on a set of rear tires? Thats amazing.... I had a catastrophic failure on the left inside dual after 6 yrs 3 mths on tires. Did some rather major re-designing of the body panels aft of the left duals. Never-the-less, I will never go over five years again!! Isn't worth it.
ddtuttle
aka Billy Byte (trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443
Yahoo Message Number: 58737 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/58737)
Yikes, glad I' am not following you down the highway. Then adding mfg and storage before they were installed on your coach probably close to 14 years.
I can't remember any posts on Hancock tires being in the mix for replacement. Is there any reason to consider a brand that would be hard to match if one became damaged ? Looking ahead a non repairable puncture makes options less to keep tires matched on the axle.
AL
00 affinity
Yahoo Message Number: 58754 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/58754)
I believe they are made in China....take your chances, but better learn to eat with chop sticks and speak Chinese.
Max 98 Affinity # 5487
Yahoo Message Number: 60267 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60267)
I have always been under the impression that 5 years was the maximum for a set of tires. This was underscored by a number of tire failures after that length of time. I realize that there are contributing variables but I have not been willing to chance the alternative and it may have been a coincidence but some of these failures have had very serious consequences. Your thoughts? Jack
99 Affinity
Yahoo Message Number: 60272 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60272)
My tires were five years old when I bought the coach, and I kept them another two years. My worry level went up considerably the last year, and I priced tires from Texas to Arizona to Utah to Oregon. I finally found a good price and good dealer at Les Schwab in Oakridge Oregon that was within $50 of the lowest price I found, fresh (STINKY!!) tires, and bought them. The dealer then sold my "old" tires, as the casings were in good shape, and the tread was still over half, $300 back into my pocket. My worry decreased dramatically.
I have a friend with a class C that blew out an inner dual on a Michelin steel belted, and it took out a lot of wiring and rearranged several frame members under his RV. I related that to a possible blow out on my Country Coach, and thought the body damage alone, even if I did not wreck and kill myself or someone else, would be at least twice what a new set of tires cost. So, I just said "Ouch" and bought them. Best $2700 (after the check back) I ever spent.
I replaced the Toyos that came from the factory, I believe the nomenclature is M111b. There have been discussions about Toyos, none of which applied to my situation. If anyone is interested, the search feature can find it for you. I like everything about them.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527
Yahoo Message Number: 60278 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60278)
New tires and those not old is one of the cheapest insurance practices you can do.
A friend of mine had an inside duel blow, went through the roof on a Beaver. Cost over $20,000 to get repaired. His tires were 6 years old with low miles.
GPisel
04 Allure, 31068
Yahoo Message Number: 60279 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60279)
I suppose it may matter in what part of the country you live but in Florida I would never think of running tires over 5 years old. I can't speak for bus tires but on my boat trailer, I had 2 tires blow out coming back from a trip and had to buy 4 truck tires to get me home. The Suburban I was using as a tow vehicle also had a rear tire come apart on the same trip, however I got home using its spare. In every case there was ample tread on all of the tires. Had one come apart on my Jag too and it was 6 years old. Replacing the tires on my '02 was a no brainer when I did it in 2008. Heard too many stories on what happens when they come apart, Fiberglass no match to a rubber carcass.
Ed McManus.....'02 Intrigue....11361
Yahoo Message Number: 60280 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60280)
I just love these debates on tires. There are a million and one reasons why a tire fails. Age is just one of them. I've blown a new tire and I've also blown a 15 year old tire. So what should I conclude?
I think factors such as owner/user and opperating environment play a bigger part of the picture than age.
I know I'm not going to spend money just because my tires have a birthday.
Bruce
2001 Itrigue #11278
Yahoo Message Number: 60281 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60281)
Wise words Bruce. So have I.
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
I just love these debates on tires. There are a million and one reasons why a tire fails. Age is just one of them. I've blown a new tire and I've also blown a 15 year old tire. So what should I conclude?
I think factors such as owner/user and opperating environment play a bigger part of the picture than age.
I know I'm not going to spend money just because my tires have a birthday.
Bruce
2001 Itrigue #11278
Yahoo Message Number: 60282 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60282)
Jack: I agree. I had toyo steer tires with about 25,000 on them hardly noticible. I just replaced the four rears with new Toyo"s and love them in spite of the smell. Only noticible when I walk in my shed. Two more years and I will replace the front steer tires. Hard to do with all that beautiful tred left but not worth the alternative. Still trying to find someone to buy my used ones with good casings and tred. Barrie Boas 94 Concept 5111
Yahoo Message Number: 60283 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60283)
The reason, so say the experts, that tires fail with age is rusting of the steel belts. When a tire sets on the ground, water gets through the rubber to the steel belts, causing them to rust. The rust causes the steel belts to fail, around the 5 year mark or so. One can help by placing a water proof barrier under the tire when sitting. Concrete does not count as water goes through it. This is a relative new problem that came about with steel belted tires and took years to be understood. It is well understood and documented many times over now.
Insurance, we will not leave home without, yet we are willing to gamble on old tires. Maybe one should consider the new tires as insurance. What does a new radiator, inter-cooler cost? Would it not buy several seats of tires? What is your or your mates life worth? A set of new tires can seems mighty cheap compared to the consequence. Just last summer was not the story posted on this forum of a right front tire blow out just missing a spouse in the passenger seat?
The bottom line seems to be: just how big a gambler are you?
Leonard
97' Magna 5418
Yahoo Message Number: 60285 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60285)
Lots of arguments pro and con. I know there are many causes of flats and blowouts, but age is one thing I can control, so I do.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527
Yahoo Message Number: 60286 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60286)
You might try the dealer - that is how I sold mine. He had enough on line contracts and business contacts to move them to truckers. Trucks wear them out in a matter of months, and are hungry to get a deal anywhere they can. If the tires are well inspected it can work for them. I would not use them for steer tires, but they would be fine on trailers. I always used high traction tires on my drive tires (18 wheelers).
Jack Nichols
Yahoo Message Number: 60328 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60328)
Absolutely correct that there are numerous variables that affect tire longevity.
The problem is it is nearly impossible to know what you need to know to make a 100% sure decision even on a brand new tire. It isn't impossible to envision a brand new tire being run over in a warehouse or wherever thereby bending the steel cord ensuring a diastrous failure some time down the road. Look up tire zipper failure in google.
Our society attempts to dumb everything down to some common denominator. If anyone thinks they know enough to ignore this "common wisdom" go for it - I do it frequently but only when I am pretty darn sure I KNOW how to make the right decision.
Dumbed down idea or not rubber ages and you can't stop it in any reasonable manner. It will age faster or slower depending on a lot of issues. I have owned more than a few motor homes and learned the hard way that this is not a 3,500 lbs car. Instead of a 25 lbs tire going to pieces our rigs have tires closer to 200 lbs and it is no exaggeration to share stories of pieces going through the roof causing tens of thousands of dollars of damage and possibly serious personal injury, if not to you then someone unfortunate to be traveling the same road near you. About two weeks ago the front page of the local newspaper had a photo of what could have been a CC lying on its side. The story said a tire failed and the rig flipped and took out several hundred feet of guard rail. It had a one piece windshield so it wasn't more than 7 years old or there abouts so an assumption the tires were about the same age seems reasonable. Spending $3,000 every 5-7 years for an item that is in contact with the road 100% of the time is not a lot of money when compared with the total cost of operation.
I personally feel 5 years, under most circumstances, is a bit conservative. I believe 7 years is the most time anyone should feel comfortable with. I swapped ours right at 5 years even though I take good care of my rig and there was no indication of any problems. If some trucker got another 70,000 trouble free miles out of my old tires I am more than happy and glad to help him/ner keep operating costs down. He/she is not carrying me or my loved ones.
Yeah, this does seem to come up frequently with the same old claims, excuses and recommendations. I still have to wonder about the incidents we will never hear about because the folks who were waiting for some magical tire alarm to go off aren't driving any more because they can't or lost the rig. We hear the recommendations, we hear the calims that is rediculous and anyone who spends such money is a dumb jerk but where are the failure stories? They must be out there? Did the owner of the rig I saw in the newspaper post a message on his brand's board? I don't know but I doubt it.
I plan to keep posting here and plying the roads of North America for some time. And I plan to do it on fresh rubber that I check every time I stop.
I save money every place I can. Tires and brakes however are not something I want to take chances on.
For the record, the longest I have owned a set of RV tires is about 10 years and on a trip from Maryland to Michigan and back I lost every darn tire on the rig! Every one plus two more "spares" of similar age - which failed also. That whole exercise was pretty dumb, I admit it. Even though those tires spent little time in high temperature and sunlight, were frequently covered when parked and always checked for proper inflation. I would guess I could have bought at least two complete new tire changes for the total cost of the ripoff prices required to be paid when I had no choice. Including one enterprising young man who informed me it was extra for 10 lug wheels.
Lesson learned: I did not save money running tires until they looked worn out and I feel very fortunate to not have something on my conscience that could bother me to the day I die.
Sometimes money is not important.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 60369 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60369)
Excellent post, Bob
Aging of rubber is a fact we best not overlook.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 60398 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60398)
Bob....excellent summary....age is probably the worst enemy of tire longevity and for those non-belivers who will still drive on old tires with plenty of tread might profit your experiences and mine. If they don't, I only hope their tire doesn't blow when they are passing me.
Ed McManus.....'02Intrugue.....11361
Yahoo Message Number: 60399 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60399)
I'm not sure that anyone is actually saying it's OK to drive on old tires. It's more a case of there not being an actual date as such to change tires. Simply changing tires because they are 5 years old is not the answer that will end tire problems.
Many factors need to be taken into account as well as the age. Stating a use by date is just too simplistic.
It would be an interesting exercise to pick up all the tires along the interstates and analyise them.
Given the time and money I would change them every year. But that's not realistic nor would it guarantee no further problem. Everyone has to weigh up the cost/risk factor for themselves and make a decission for themselves.
I've got 10 month old tires on our motorhome. It has been in storage for the past 8 months. Do I worry about my 'new' tires? You bet. I've had an inside dual explode. I know what the damage can be.
Bruce
2001 Intrigue #11278
Yahoo Message Number: 60400 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/60400)
Did you have a point there, or did I miss it?
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527
Yahoo Message Number: 67420 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67420)
OK all you tire techies here's one to chew on.
Just put six new Toyo M154H tires on my coach (11R22.5). When I picked up the coach the mechanic warned me to be careful because the new tires were at least 4" larger in diameter than the old tires (275R/70 22.5) and therefore, the coach would be taller.
Questions:
What effect, if any, will this have on my actual speed vs speedometer? Same question for odometer?
How about MPG.
I think none of the gauges will read any different but my MPG should improve.
Let the games begin...........
George
'04 Inspire 51061
Yahoo Message Number: 67422 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67422)
If you will look at the michelin or goodyear site they will tell you how many revolution per mile each tire makes> You can use these numbers to figure out the error you will experience. Why didn't you install 275 R 80's which would give you the same profile, a 6% increase in diameter and allow you to drop your tire pressure 10 to 15 lbs, with out worry on clearance issues??"
Twi 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 67423 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67423)
Tom,
Coach had Toyos on it when we bought it and I love the ride. 275/75R Michelins were 50% more. Not worth it to me because I had them on my last coach and I like the Toyo ride better. Thanks for the RPM info (actually I was hoping one of our resident techies would have the answer).
George
'04 Inspire 51061.
Yahoo Message Number: 67425 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67425)
George, there is no such thing as a free lunch!
You will gain some MPG under some conditions, get less under others. How the pluses and minuses work for you, only time will tell. Since all trips from a home base ultimately go in a loop, it'll probably net out to zero change over the long haul.
On the flats under neutral conditions or with a tail wind you will get better MPG. Against a good headwind or on the hills/mountains your MPG will be lower.
You can get a feel for this if you ride a bike with multiple gears (speeds) around a hilly loop. Do it in one gear, then a a higher gear. Down hill or with the wind you can push the higher gear and go faster. On the uphills its a bigger chore in the higher gear, and you'll be downshifting more The bigger RV tire, in effect, results in higher gearing (think penny farthing).
Overall, your coach will feel like you've lost some power and you'll be dropping into lower gears in adverse conditions sooner than in the past.
How noticeable all this will be for you in your coach I can not say.
The bad news . . . if you've had trouble maintaining speed on BIG hills/climbs, its gonna get worse.
Let us know how it goes.
--
Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13
------
Yahoo Message Number: 67427 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67427)
Lee,
Thanks for the reply. On the way home (50 plus miles) I mentioned to the wife that the coach seemed to be working harder as we pulled away from a light. Trip is all flat so I can't tell about hills yet. Didn't have problems before.
Interestingly (or stupidly) I was unaware of the size change until we picked up the coach. Toyo no longer makes the model tire I had and for about three months, no Toyo dealer had any recommendations. Then I got a call about this new model. Tires were built in the 42nd week of 2010 so I know they're new.
As mentioned, time will tell. Thanks again.
George
'04 Inspire 51061
Yahoo Message Number: 67428 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67428)
The difference in rotations per mile is about 10.5% few revs per mile. In other words if you are driving 60 mph, the actual speed will be close to 66 mph. If you drive 500 miles it will actually be 550 more or less.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 67429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67429)
I had the same problem when I put new Toyos on my SOB 5 years ago.
I was able to adjust the dip switches on the back of the speedometer to reduce the error some. I settled on about an 8% error.
I use an Excel spread sheet to monitor fuel economy. Unfortunately ultra low sulpher fuel came on the market about that time, so I blame the fuel for my slight reduction in MPG, but it might be the larger tires adding to the problem.
Bob Wexler
SOB
Yahoo Message Number: 67433 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67433)
Hi George:
The speedometer is programmable. A document is attached that explains how it is done with dip switches. I have a hard copy of nother document that is much better and has more details including tables of dip switch settings. Unfortunately I can't find the Acrobat file and it seesm to have been removed from the web. If the attached document doesn't help enough let me know and I will scan the better document into an Acrobat file when I can get the time.
Your speedo should be accurate or you risk a ticket.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67434 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67434)
Bob,
Thanks, looks like I'll need an engineer.
George
Yahoo Message Number: 67440 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67440)
George
Please don't yell, I have a headache
Dave
aka Billy Byte (trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443
Yahoo Message Number: 67441 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67441)
George:
Don't forget some politically correct technician or cop (if you use the inaccurate speedo as an excuse - don't) might decide your "underregistering" odometer is mileage fraud. If that get's into the CarFax type systems it could hurt the resale value of your vehicle.
I am not making this up - it happened to me. An overzealous Jeep dealer did exactly that for a Jeep Cherokee I owned that I put oversize tires on. I had to sell the car to an individual (to whom I told the truth and he didn't care at 100,000 miles plus) but you should get it fixed.
According to the document I have the speedometer is accurate (adjustable) for the at full scale frequency range of 133-20,000 Hz. That's a heck of a lot of band width! The charts give the actual frequency for each dip switch setting. All you need to do is multiply the current setting by the correction factor (already posted as a %) and set the appropriate dip switch sequence. The transmission and engine conrol modules both have builtin frequency egnerators to operate these gauges. It doesn't make any diference which one is being used, the speedo just needs to be adjusted to match.
In lieu of copying the whole document if you send me the current settings of your gauge and the correcton factor I can look up the required new setting.
There are also shops that can adjust this and the cost should be quite small - just a few minutes if they know what they are doing. The first place I'd try is the store you bought the tires from! I would think that in some "Progessive" states like CA it would be a legal requirement for the tire store to adjust as necessary. The tire store should also know who can set the switches (or should). Second place I would check, or at least ask, is a Cummins or Cat shop. If they deal in off road equipment they might run into this a lot. Searching the Teleflex web sites (manufacturer of the speedomerter and gauges in our Inspires) also check out marine repair shops as they use the same basic design gauges.
Let me know if you want the second document with the tables. A knowledgeable shop should not need it. Or send me your current dip switch setting and I'll look it up.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67442 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67442)
Wouldn't it be possible to get your actual coach speed from the GPS with the SOG (speed over ground) option ? AL
00 Affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 67443 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67443)
George:
I haven't seen a discussion of another critical safety issue. The wheels of our Inspires were not designed for the larger tires used on other models. They are of different width and spacing. This can cause a problem for the rear tires if the sidewalls are too close and they can rub - they can fail if that happens. It is not good enough they are are not touching sitting there. Tires flex and move, while turning for instance. The specification chart for the tires will indicate a minimum spacing requirement. Please have this checked out as it can be a very dangerous situation.
I am concerned that any tire shop would sell you tires so much larger than OEM.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67446 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67446)
Yes, but every GPS does not work 100% of the time and there is the speedometer fraud issue. You can use a stop watch and mile marker posts too, ;-)
I often check one against the other (GPS vs speedo) - because I can I guess. GPS also doesn't always react as quickly - depends a lot on the model but some take several seconds to come up with an accurate reading.
There are GPS based speedometers on the market that don't use any other information. It depends on the quality and ability of the GPS module. Some stink royally - my DeLorme units (several and every one of the LT series I have owned) are grossly unreliable so I now use a Globalnet USB GPS module - fantastic improvement.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67448 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67448)
Bob,
I spoke with the mechanic who installed the tires, not the store manager who sold them. He only does commercial tires, not passenger. Says he has done every motor home chassis including the dynamax and that the only thing different about these tires is the diameter (height). Says the "aspect ratio" is exactly the same as the old tires and that are just as far apart as the old tires.
For some reason, I have confidence in what he says. Says they will back the tires if there was a problem.
Don't really know what to think. I'm hoping more forum members will chime in with opinions.
George
'04 Inspire 51061
Yahoo Message Number: 67450 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67450)
? George is not yelling. All caps is yelling. Bold is just to help us with failing eyesight.
Don Seager
2004 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 67451 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67451)
Hi George:
I took the liberty of changing the title a bit to reflect the current discussion.
Attached is the document I have been referring to. On page 5 the settings for 711.0Hz are underlined - I ASSUME this is what my rig has as a setting.
You should probably ignore this underline and check your settings as they may be different. For one you have a Cummins, we have a Cat so I have no idea what difference that could make, if any. Depends on where the signal comes from and its range of operation. As noted previously the speedometer has a very wide range of operation.
Note the instructions on page 3, only 10 of the 14 dip switches are used to set the speedometer frequency - the diagram is clearly marked, you will use switches 3-6 of the left set and 1-6 of the right set.
Write down the settings your speedo is currently set for. Look it up in the tables which will give you the current frequency. Adjust the frequency down (I think) the % of the tire sixe change, look up the new settings and set the dip switches. Test drive the rig.
You don't need an engineer, just a little math and a closed ball point pen to move the little dip switches. Read the instructions a few times and it will make sense.
You may find the switches to be a bit stiff - or not. Just be careful. Break one in the wrong position and you may need a new speedo. The upside of that is the new ones are fog-proof. ;-)
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67452 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67452)
George:
He may be right, but somehow I don't think he is 100% right. The only thing that matters is the published spec by Toyo. It would be on their website if not otherwise available. Look up the separation distance required for the tires you have currently installed and make sure they meet that distance. IF they ever rub the results could be catastrophic given the weights and energy of our coaches.
I am bringing this up because I seem to recall a couple years back an Inspire owner wanted to put the same size Toyos as used on the Intrigue and they would not meet the separation distance. The reason this happened is because the wheels are different between the two models, that makes the tires only part of the equation so I am not comfortable - yet.
Techs are encouraged to "make the sale" as much as the salesmen. What either says never makes me comfortable without some independent research. The speedo is a relatively minor issue, this isn't IMHO.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67454 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67454)
Want to be confused? Then asking members to chime in will result in that as a certainty.
I am in the process of buying some tires, at present only needing to replace the two fronts, I have been told and understand the absolute need to retain the same characteristics/dimensions as the OEMs which are Goodyear. We experienced some irregular wear on the fronts, apparently due to a ride height valve issue. The rears tread depth is near new but I just get extremely nervous with all the weight an control issues if a steer should go "blooey".
That said, I have long preferred Michelins on everything I drive. Most of our vehicles came standard with Michelins. Admittedly like so many things in life we develop personal favorites and mine is Michelin. We are replacing the front two Goodyear steers presently with Michelins with all the same profile and dimensions. When the rears need replacing I'll probably move the steers to the tag and replace all others then.
Others with far more experience and knowledge on this group have provided back door counsel that is borne out by the tire industry. Without exception they have counseled to retain the OEM spec tires. This has been explained whether replacing all or just the fronts as in my case. The reasons given:
1. Tire to body clearance. Going with taller, and less expensive tires, reduces the OEM clearance between body parts. We all hear of the bottom out concerns from this group but bottoming out with the tires contacting a body panel adds a totally new dimension to the issue.
2. Tire to chassis clearance. A taller tire, larger diameter, also may cause contact with frame or other chassis components, particularly in a tight turn. The very short turning radius we enjoy with these coaches could be sacrificed but also damage to the tire could result from such contact.
3. One point that I don't recall seeing discussed is that with greater diameter tires, the coach will ride proportionately higher. It would seem the ride would therefore be altered particularly in a cross wind. The stability would be altered from the original design standards as the center of gravity is raised dramatically.
Probably the least concern...your entry step is two inches higher?
I will be facing the replacement of all tires soon enough because CC in their instructions and the tire manufacturers all recommend tire replacement by age as opposed to tread wear, that is when the tires are subjected to the low mileage most of us drive annually. Hoping not to be offensive, but this fact caused me to smile when I noticed one of the members offering to sell a spare that hadn't seen any road wear whatever for, as I recall, $250. Based on the industry recommendations, regardless of wear that tire at best has carcass value which is typically $90-$100.
I've also seen a few coachees install standard truck tires due to their lower cost. They feel the coach industry is simply being pillaged cost wise. Whether marketing fiction or fact, many have also explained that RV tires are designed for a smoother ride and with compounds that provide a longer life without cracking than truck tires that will literally be ground away.
Little of my opinion is based on personal experience but garnered from listening to many of you...this is why I so highly value the group discussion. Ultimately each of us must make these decisions for ourselves, hopefully the wisdom of collective group advice is helpful.
G Brown
2007 Allure 31447
Yahoo Message Number: 67455 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67455)
Bob, Checked their website and can find every spec for the tire except distance between duals.
George
Yahoo Message Number: 67456 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67456)
G,
Appreciate your comments but can't say you gave me the warm fuzzies. I bought the Toyos because I was very happy with the ride that my original Toyos gave me. Sadly, they no longer make that model and until they started making this model about four months ago, nothing was available. The savings over Michelin was a bonus although $1,300 will put a lot of fuel in the tank.
I guess it's time to fish or cut bait. As of this second, I'm going to stick with these tires. If something comes up before I leave for Florida in two weeks, I might change my mind. Thanks Again.
George
Yahoo Message Number: 67457 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67457)
Not mentioned in the recent thread concerning tire replacement plus and minuses and speedometer effect is the likelihood that your dash speedometer depends on digital input signals from a left front wheel sensor and the transmission senses speed based on rear wheel rotation frequency. The instructions on how to set your dash speedometer to correct for a different tire size have no effect on what the transmission senses and uses among other inputs, torque load, etc. to regulate shifting.
To illustrate:
A few years ago I had occasion to replace my 4 rear tires. The steer tires had been replaced earlier with the same Toyo tires as original. AT the OR tire shop that does all the CC work I was told that those Toyo tires were no longer approved or recommended for CC's and were not available so we checked what CC was using for current model coaches of the same type and it was a GoodYear variant designed for RV use. On checking the tire sites I discovered the replacement tires selected were fractionally smaller in diameter than the original Toyos and was assured that this made no difference as long as different sizes were not mixed on the same axle. The tire sites provided appropriate "rotations per miles" and other pertinent information to compared the sizes.
As a practical matter I noticed that the speed and odometer readings on the dash speedometer are fractionally lower than readings from my Silver Leaf engine monitor which apparently gets its info direct from the transmission and engine electronics modules. The slightly smaller diameter of the drive wheels is the same as slightly reduced (lower gear) gearing and from the driving "feel" standpoint maybe a little better match than the original tire size. This translates to maybe 1/2 - 3/4 mph difference in the readings between the dash speedo and electronic monitor. I know how to adjust the speedo but it just isn't worth the bother. Besides the dash odometer records the same as original and I wouldn't want to run afoul of the regulator watch dogs. I have a corresponding APPARENT improvement in mileage between the current size and the original based on the Silver Leaf which can track such things - again minimal and of no practical significance but it makes me feel like I'm getting slightly better mileage.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL400
Yahoo Message Number: 67458 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67458)
Not all truck tires are the same and it is totally inappropriate to use some of those designs on RVs. It all depends on the purpose for which they will be used. There are steer tires to be used only on steer axels, and drive tires properly used only on drive axels, there are tires made that can be used on all positions and long haul versus short haul. LOTS of combinations. Each combination uses different tread designs, rubber compounds and carcass construction methods. The most appropriate "truck" tire for our use is the short haul any position version. I installed Firestones and they are advertised for RV use and short haul truck applications such as big city delivery. In addition to the obvious appropriate tread and rubber compound such tires have thicker sidewalls for protection from curbs. Such appliccations do not wear down quickly like long haul high speed uses so they are designed to last several years and not months.
The other advice I have seen is that RVs should always use steel cord construction and not fabric type cord.
The Toyos originally used by CC were the same as used for some truck applications so I do not believe that an RV specific tire is the only choice. There are clearly marketing issues associated with that kind of claim. You can't go wrong using such a tire but that isn't the only choice.
The tire only knows what it is exposed to and how it is used. Selection of the correct design is what is important and I never, ever believe sales people. I do extensive research to try (all one can do) and make a correct decision at the most reasonable (note I didn't say cheap) cost.
FWIW my current Firestone tires ride as well or better than anything else I have used in 35+ years of Class A RV driving, are wearing even and show no signs of being incorrect in any way. And they cost just a bit less than $300 each a year and a half ago. (Plus all the additional charges they manage to stick on of course.)
But that's just my .02 worth.
A number of Michelin owners have posted that the company does not honor their warranties like they used to. If you search the messages you should find the posts. Considering what they charge/cost that would bother me.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67459 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67459)
Good comments GB on tires and the many options we have.
A big fan of Michelins they are the best available. The tire is mfg to speed ratings, weight, and quiet ride is my choice the best tire I can buy for my steer axle. I believe you get what you pay for and the TOYO's installed at the factory were probably let out for bid and there is the result. My experience with TOYO's has not been positive at all. The Michelin ride was by far superior.
Has there been any info posted on TOYO for weight and speed? The first time we returned from a trip in hot summer the tires smelled like rotten eggs in the bldg. Calling TOYO about the odor there was no explanation for it and the first they heard.
With the sale of a total out of date tire for sale at $250 is a stretch and should remain a spare.
Reading trade magazines about the tire industry tire prices will continue to climb with 4-8 % increase. The raw material and the largest factor, labor as most plants laid off employees and now with increase demand labor comes back at higher cost, supply and demand.
Enough crystal ball reading..... as the dog just pawed for outside business.
AL
00 affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 67460 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67460)
The speed indicator (whether engine, transmission, wheel or whatever) must always be calibrated (or if your lucky checked) to the chassis and tires they are installed with. I'd check each against a good GPS system to see which is closest. Silver Leaf is merely reading the sensors in the various components, it doesn't "run" them. Each is adjustable and may or may not have been set properly at the time of coach assembly.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67461 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67461)
Seems to me , that , if the side wall is 2 inches higher, that the "flexed width" " would be greater. If the "flexed width " is greater on both tires, then the space between will be reduced by quite a bit. I agree with Bob Harnden, that they will sell what they can, and that you should get independent advice. With respect to engine RPM. coaches are built to turn the RPM with the peak torque ( tire height and axle gear ratio ) and 65 MPH. That's why smaller sized engines require higher RPM's . For instance my ISX at 14.9 Liters turns approx 1400 RPM at 60 MPH and my old ISL at 8.9 liters turned approx 1700 RPM at 60. By disturbing that relationship, your engine is turning a lower RPM and is lower on the torque curve and also developing less HP. ( I am aware that most torque curves are pretty flat, but HP comes from the amount of fuel burned ) As well, after 55 MPH, the ability to push the coach through the air is the biggest factor. If you need to develop , say 300 HP to push the coach through the air, then you will need more fuel to burn at that lower RPM, to develop that HP. The turbo boost will go up and fuel economy will go down. The only time, where I might think that mileage would improve , might be on a flat run with a bigger displacement engine. If you have a small cubic inch engine , I cannot see how mileage would improve , in other than the most favorable of conditions.
Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025 ISX 650
Yahoo Message Number: 67462 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67462)
George:
The spec to verify is the rim width. The charts give a range of acceptable rim widths. Your wheels will have this stamped on them, merely compare to the Toyo table. If the wheel is within the range your separation will be fine.
Looking at the tables in the Toyo document the comment by your mechanic about section width makes more sense. For a certain range of tires it is the same - but not for all, the problem with generalities. There are 22.5" tires with different section widths but they are probably outside the range of sizes that will apply to your coach. Plus, I just scanned the tables, but it appears they would actually be smaller not wider so no problem.
So it should be pretty simple now, just check the rim specs versus the Toyo table.
There are folks who like to bash Toyo, everyone is entitled to an opinion even if some politicians disagree. I was quite happy with the performance of the ones I have had. Any lack of performance was self inflicted by a previous owner or myself for not watching the tire air pressures. The fact CC and Toyo had some legal wranglings does not affect an inanimate object - the tire. I would buy them again.
That reminds me - did the Toyo distributor know these were going on an RV? I thought, because of the lawyers, Toyo was not selling tires for use on CC products. Or maybe now that the original company is no more makes it moot.
When and where will you be in FL?
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67463 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67463)
Ron, I agree with your analysis 100%, and it is consistent with the points I made earlier. Also, any change in MPG will vary depending on power (torque?)/ weigh ratio.
Seems like the higher the power/weight ratio the more likely a MPG improvement (if any), and the lower the power/weight ratio the less likely a MPG improvement, and perhaps a MPG decline as those with the lower ration would be spending more time/miles in 5th and lower gears.
In the end, regardless of tire size, the same work must be done on any trip. The key is the relative level of engine efficiency for a given set of variables like ones discussed.
--
Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13
Yahoo Message Number: 67465 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67465)
Lee, that's true particularly for a diesel engine which has such a broad torque band, improvement in efficiency isn't there. RPM changes are so small from a tire change any improvement from less friction generation is also minimal.
A gasoline engine can gain significant fuel economy improvements when the end drive ratio keeps it in the relatively narrow torque band. Plus lower rpm means less friction because gas engines have a much broader engine speed range.
O/D units (like Gear Vendors) installed on gasoline motor homes apparently do not provide the improvement obtained with automobiles. I think the weights we are dealing with are also a factor making it harder to gain improvements.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67466 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67466)
What's this "must always" concept in the context o this particular thread? A GPS reading in my coach matches the dash speedometer almost exactly. As mentioned before correcting the Silver Leaf to match the Dash speedo minimal difference isn't worth the effort. I'm sure the electronics modules that control the engine/transmission don't really care what the dash speedometer (or, for that matter the Silver Leaf) shows. As you point out neither "run" the coach.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 67467 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67467)
Bob,
Rim size is 8.25. Toyo spec is 7.50 to 8.25 with 8.25 in bold. Sounds good to me.
The original problem with CC and Toyo was because CC was under sizing the tires. Yes the dealer knew the tires were going on an RV. I'm sure Toyo is covered since they state not recommended. God forbid anything happens, it would be the tire dealer I would go after (if able).
George
Yahoo Message Number: 67469 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67469)
Jim:
I believe I added you might luck out and only require a check. As all coaches are an assembly of parts from various manufacturers, if you want to be assured of accuracy, you must always calibrate. The context was accuracy of the speedo after tire size dimension changes. Whether it is an instrument, firearm or even a slingshot it needs to be calibrated. ;-) If you are lucky it is spot on, seldom happens in real life. If you are comfortable memorizing correction factors that works too but your instruments are not accurate.
I still feel stung by the jerk who reported my Jeep to CarFax for an inaccurate speedometer/odometer. Never went anywhere near the place again. That was located in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. I certainly don't want such a blemish on the record of my coach.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 67471 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67471)
I may be way off base here, I did not read all the post fully, but you can re-program the ECM according to the tire size you are running., that should take care of all the corrections, trans changing, cruise control, and the silverleaf... Just my thought...
Marvin, 07 Allure 470 #31459
Yahoo Message Number: 67472 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67472)
More accurately, you can program the Silver Leaf monitor to be accurate relative to the tire size and associated readings. You can also program your dash speedometer to be accurate relative to the wheel and tire size to which it is connected. I don't think either has any effect on the ECM (Electronic Control Module) that controls the engine, transmission and their function and relationship to each other. It, too, can probably be programmed to achieve certain desired objectives like altered shift points, speed or abruptness of shifts, etc. but that is not something usually available to the owner operator and it's probably best that it isn't. By selecting the "economy" mode in the Allison controller, for example, you are, in effect, selecting an option (controlling) the ECM I believe.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 67473 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67473)
How many members drive in the economy Allison Trans mode ? Which mode is preferred ? AL
00 affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 67474 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67474)
Hello Al,
I always run the economy Allison trans mode, but will manual shift for climbing and down hill driving when not utilizing the Jake brake.
Corky & Kathleen
00 Affinity B&B 5769
Yahoo Message Number: 67475 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67475)
Al, I do, Mike - 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898
Yahoo Message Number: 67476 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67476)
I drive in the Economy mode essentially always. Of course i'm older and not really in any hurry to show how fast I can accelerate, etc. Actually, i don't think it really has anything to do with economy which might be more driver related but I think the brochure that came with the coach described that it may soften the shifts a little (less harsh) and maybe, all other things being equal, keep the transmission in a little higher gear ratio longer before shifting down - things you might do if shifting a manual transmission and in complete control of when and how the shifts are done - like it was in my old 4104 before "moving up" to CC.
Jim M
'02 Intrigue ##11410 ISL 400
Yahoo Message Number: 67479 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67479)
We use it practically all the time except on mountain grades where the lower shift points work better. Often, I shift manually in those situations anyway. On flatter terrain, we find that it smoothes operation with little affect on performance.
Dan & Ann Houck
Allure #30180
Yahoo Message Number: 67482 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67482)
Al
I have asked the question twice of Allison shops and was told it was preferable not to use the economy mode, when towing, particularly in the mountains. You want the transmission to downshift in order to maintain your RPMs.
Dan 2006 Allure 31348
Yahoo Message Number: 67488 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67488)
Al I run in econ mode when the road does not have any or many steep grades. My coach handles low to medium grades with no prob. On steep or really long hills that will create heat build up I control the gear manually to keep rpm in a range to allow the fan enough speed to cool effectively. I would rather lose a little mpg than to over heat tranny or manifolds. Besides, it gives me something to do.....................
Dave
aka Billy Byte (trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443
Yahoo Message Number: 67492 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/67492)
On Newer Cat over the road Diesels we use the Laptop with Speed, Gallons per hour on Dyno or on Flat or graded road. Air temp-fuel are a factor. I know we did not like the feed back from endusers with a printed report! Wont go any further on this just like the 240 Power thread. Ken 99 Allure 30356
Yahoo Message Number: 68056 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68056)
Time to replace the original Toyo tires on my 04 Intrigue. I realize that there have been 7 zillion posts regarding tires but would like some current input on best tires, best values, best shops (probably in Oregon) etc. Don't think I would go with the Toyos again. Thanks.
D Bradley
04 Intrigue #11830
Yahoo Message Number: 68074 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68074)
Mr. Bradley, I recommend Les Schwab in Junction City, and Michelin Model 12R XZE 22.5.
I run this tire on my 03 Allure 40' Tag 1st AVe. #30898
Thanks Mike
Yahoo Message Number: 68075 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68075)
Mr Bradley,
We would also recommend both the Michelins and Les Schwab in Junction City. We noticed a big improvement in handling on rougher roads and Les Schwab staff was exceptional to us.
Safe Travels,
Kathy
'06 Inspire #51782
Yahoo Message Number: 68077 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68077)
i would go see the boys at Les Schwab in Junction City. They are always up on the product. I know you will want 12R's. I have XZ2, which are a highway tire. But most choose the XZE, which has stronger side walls. When I bought mine, there was less than $20.00 difference. In my case, I updated my Smart Tire at the same time and didn't want to pay Tax, so bought my tires in Oregon during my travels. This year will visit Les Schwab to have batteries checked, tires rotated and balanced if necessary after three years.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 68084 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68084)
Good input, thanks. We will probably buy the tires in Oregon on our way north this spring.
No need to pay 10% tax elsewhere. Any other input on tires?
Yahoo Message Number: 68087 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68087)
The difference in addition to having a thicker side wall is the tread is 1/16+ deeper, so the tire squirms a bit until you wear off the tread a bit. I've got 30,000 miles on mine and the squirming I had went away after 10,000 miles. The tires aren't as fast in reaction time as the stiff Toyos, but they are at least 6db quieter on asphalt roads with a coarse texture and just glide over the average seams in concrete where a Toyo lets you feel every crack and imperfection. I run 115 lbs up front, 110 on the Drive and 115 on the tag to cut down on edge of tread wear on winding roads. Michelin says 7 years is normal life for the 12R, where Goodyear says 4 to 5 years, as I remember.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 68094 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68094)
I have dealt with Pat at Pro Tires in Denton, TX several times. The last time was to purchase Michelins for our 2005 Inspire. The tires are excellent and, if I had know the difference in ride and handling, I would not have driven it off the lot with the Toyos when we bought it new.
Also, Pat and his crew are great - keeps his commitment, knows tires well, provides excellent service at your site or home, and is just a nice guy.
Hodge
2005 Inspire 51319
Yahoo Message Number: 68101 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68101)
So TWI, would you buy the XZ2's again or would you go for the XZE's with the stronger sidewalls? I am a fairly aggressive driver running lots of mountain passes throughout the west.
D Bradley
04 Intrigue #11830
Yahoo Message Number: 68102 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68102)
D. Bradley,
See comments in the FMCA.com membership forum about a new Michelin price for FMCA members. Details just coming out and most dealers don't even know about it yet. Only certain Truck centers will be offering the FMCA RV Member deals.
John
05 Inspire #51399
10 Ford Escape
Yahoo Message Number: 68105 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68105)
Discount would be nice since 8 new XZE's in Oregon are $5656. Could not find this article anywhere on the FMCA forum. Any clues? DBradley
04 Intrigue
#11830
Yahoo Message Number: 68107 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68107)
XZ2 are no longer available as per Michelins website. So I would refer you to Les Schwab in Junction City for a recommendation.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 68108 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68108)
Check out this page from Michelin. Starting from here will help in your decision making and give you the info you need b/4 you see the salesman. You will note per Michelin that RV usage lands smack dab in the Long Haul area.
http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/selector/tireSelector-application.jsp (http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/selector/tireSelector-application.jsp)
Personally I prefer to stick to the original tire size. Less complications IMHO.
Gil Bourdon
'05 Inspire
51322
Yahoo Message Number: 68109 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68109)
I called Les Schwab in JC this morning. Nice to deal with competent people for a change.
They now recommend the XZE's for our coaches. DBradley 04 Intrigue #11830
Yahoo Message Number: 68115 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68115)
Confused yet?
100-400 miles a day is not long haul. Any trucker would laugh in our faces. Then we park 'em for months on end. I don't see how the average RV owner is anywhere near long haul specs. If you drive like a long haul trucker use the proper tires; most of us don't even come close.
That said, the tire manufacturer knows what is best for their designs. If the manufacturer recommends a particular tire for an RV that should be best.
Reading the tech information for other brands gives different answers; Good Year and Forestone/Bridgestone come down on short haul designs for RVs. Michelin makes specific tires for RV's I just think the price they charge is rediculous but that is a personal decision - you wnat them, go for it. I'll still trust the published materials and the manufacturers over the average tire salesperson. Please note I said average.
Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178
Yahoo Message Number: 68118 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68118)
Try this link - http://community.fmca.com/index.php?showtopic=2286 (http://community.fmca.com/index.php?showtopic=2286)
Mike 03 Lexa
Yahoo Message Number: 68123 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68123)
I'm just curious. If you are driving a 40 ft long coach weighing 40,000 pounds, towing a car, just what do you do to earn the title of "Fairly Aggressive Driver"? Jim Biestek
'04 Intrigue 11783
Yahoo Message Number: 68125 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68125)
I called FMCA and asked about the discount. There reply was that they had no knowledge of it and I needed to call Michelin about it. I did and they also said it did not exist.
John
05 Magna 6456
Yahoo Message Number: 68127 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68127)
By driving numerous winding mountain pass roads at posted speed limits (both up and down) with 525hp and not holding up traffic for miles, would be appreciated by many.
Yahoo Message Number: 68128 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68128)
I also called FMCA on 02/02/11 and was told they are aware and the director has been working on this since Nov. 2010. No solution at this time. We will need to wait until FMCA and Michelin hammer this out. But come on! Since Nov.?
Gil Bourdon
'05 Inspire
51322
Yahoo Message Number: 68133 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68133)
I resemble that comment except for the having 20 less hp.
Dallas 2004 intrigue ovation c12
Yahoo Message Number: 68318 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/68318)
Denis,
If you keep your tires covered and your tires are NOT Goodyears I believe it's a matter of wear.
I had Goodyears and had 2 violent front end blowouts. I switched to Michelin XZA3's, slowed to 65 mph and no problems for the past 6 years. The Michelins I bought then still look like new and any tread wear unnoticeable. Mine sits in a heated garage unless we're on the road.
I will never buy anything but the XZA3's.
Andy 2000 CC Intrigue #10955
Andy
(330) 862.2752 (home)
(330) 351.4715 (cell)
(330) 630.5905 (office)
(330) 862.2691 (home fax)
Yahoo Message Number: 74571 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/74571)
For safety and performance, we prefer the tires to be matched so when tires are needed we buy a matched set. Expensive initial outlay of cash, but worth it in the long fun. This will be coach # 24 (I think) and we have never had a blowout. Even though you won't lose steering with a blowout in the rear, you can do thousands of $$$ in damage. Not worth the risk, in my opinion. Just consider it insurance!!
Jurhee
Yahoo Message Number: 74573 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/74573)
Jurhee,
The best advice someone gave me on this website or one just like it a year ago when I started looking for a small starter motorhome was to buy your last motorhome first. The next day I transitioned from class C to looking at country coaches with the biggest diesel engines and tag axels in my new price range. Never had driven one before but was hooked.
Made alot of sense to me given the heavy depreciation that these rigs seem to go through along with the options that the later ones had. Tires are actually cheap compared to the depreciation. I spent way more than I planned on spending for my first motorhome but at least it is paid for and I reside myself to enjoy it until the wheels fall of it or else I fall off it.
I would agree with you on matched set or at least tires that are matched on the same axel. In fact I personally feel the front tires on my coach are as important as when putting a new engine in my last airplane after I bought it. Slightly different price tag but worth the peace of mind.
I certainly do not plan on owning 24 different coaches (I would think). I will just keep updating the one I have when something breaks or wears out I guess. :)
Thanks,
Dallas 2004 intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 74778 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/74778)
Having recently bought a 2002 Allure with the original tires still on the coach.....I have some questions that maybe you can help me with.
1. Should I assume that 10 year old tires must be replaced?
2. If I were to replace them, what tires should I consider? My local dealer suggested Sumitomo ST718; the unit currently has Toyo which I understand is out of favor with Oregon Motor Coach Center. The size of these tires is 315/80R22.5
Any insight will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Merle & Carm
Yahoo Message Number: 74779 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/74779)
YES!!!!!
I recommend Michelin XZA2 Energy.
Yahoo Message Number: 74780 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/74780)
Yes do the Michelin thing.
Walt
Yahoo Message Number: 74782 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/74782)
Merle & Carm,
The general consensus on motorhome tire life is replace after 7-9 years, regardless of remaining tread. Tires deteriorate over time and you do not want to risk a blowout. I recently saw the damage done by a rear tire blowout on a friend's coach - extensive. That's when I got serious about tire replacement.
I agree with the Michelin XZA2 Energy suggestion. The Family Motor Coach Association has a national program with Michelin that dramatically reduces the cost of these tires - FMCA's Michelin Advantage Program. It's like a national fleet program. I recently replaced the original 8 year old Toyo's on my coach with the XZA2's taking advantage of program pricing.
Go to FMCA's website for information (if perchance you are not a member, the tire savings will more than pay for your dues). See my note #74258 where I posted details of my experience.
I just finished a 2,000 mile trip with the new tires and am really, really pleased with them. They are SO much more comfortable. The coach handles way better, and is much quieter.
Nate Richards
04 Allure 31043
Yahoo Message Number: 75123 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/75123)
I am very happy withe Michelin's. So are some of my running buddies. I had Goodyears before and I think the Michelin's ride better plus I feel more confident in them because the size you need is 22 ply in the XZA2 energy. somewhere on here they was a topic about the FMCA and Michelin where you could get a great deal by ordering them through FMCA.
Yahoo Message Number: 75127 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/75127)
I strongly suggest if anyone is at that point of installing new tires they should look into the new program which has become one of the most beneficial programs your FMCA membership has to offer. I just went through it and saved about $100.00 a tire
Jim Green Intrigue 11021 "rollingghetto" 131,000 + miles
Yahoo Message Number: 75147 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/75147)
So far, pleased with the XZE* 12R on our coach. Liked the extra sidewall strength from the ZXE*. Rides smooth...
Best of luck on your research,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
Yahoo Message Number: 76257 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/76257)
Anyone ever purchased Samson Tires for your RV? Comments?
22.5 12R H (GL288)
Yahoo Message Number: 77482 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/77482)
What is the name the RV tire manufacture made in Asia and begins with the letter J.
I think it has 4 letters in the name of the tire.
Thanks,I am getting old. Frank
06 Intrugue cat C13 with 23k miles,45 feet, for sale
Yahoo Message Number: 77483 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/77483)
Just Googled it...no tire manufacturers beginning with J
George
'04 Inspire 51061
Yahoo Message Number: 77484 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/77484)
Could it be Kumo
--
Bob & Barbara Wexler
SOB
Yahoo Message Number: 77486 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/77486)
I was wrong, it started with the letter K. , Kumho Tires a excellent tire for RV's.
Thanks f
Frank Schell
1559 Woodfield Way
The Villages, Fl 32162
828.699.6980 cell
. Please excuse my brevity, spelling and punctuation.
Yahoo Message Number: 79303 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79303)
I'm going to buy a CC 2003 Allure from a private owner. The coach has 47.7k miles on the original tires.
I've expressed concern on the age of the tires. He's been reassured BY the local tire co that the tires on the coach are ok.
I drove trucks in the 70's and a truck tire and an RV tire are different.
So, I've expressed my concern to the seller, but he's unmoved.
The price is very good for a coach that been inside/climate.
I just don't like the tire issue.
Help
Yahoo Message Number: 79304 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79304)
The original tires on the 2003 coach are WAY OVERDUE for replacement. Please read other recent posts in this group about tire replacement options. The tires are an accident waiting to happen.
Herb
Group Moderator
Yahoo Message Number: 79305 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79305)
On RV tires mileage is irrelevant except to indicate the coach sat more than it rolled which is bad for tires.
Age based on the DOT code stamped on the side of the tire is the key measure for replacement. Depending on who you listen to 5, 6 or max 7 years is time for replacement. As Herb said 10+ years is an accident waiting to happen. YOU will need to replace the tires. Weather the seller participates is a point of negotiation.
Bob Wexler
SOB
Yahoo Message Number: 79307 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79307)
You say the price is very good. I would take that as a sign that you like everything about the coach except for the tires. So what? If the price is that good, buy the coach and put new tires on it and have fun.
If you came to look at my coach and you liked the price and the coach but you balked because of the tires and wanted to deal, I'd tell you that the tire condition is the reason I have the coach priced like I do, take it or leave it.
Don
'02 Intrigue #11427
Yahoo Message Number: 79308 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79308)
I feel that if I'm going to sell you an RV and I say it's in perfect condition, it should include the tires.
But, I agree with you, so what? Guess I'm going to be a CC owner. Thanks Don, sometimes we can't see past our nose. John
Yahoo Message Number: 79310 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79310)
Any time your tires are 5 years old or older it is time to Replace them as your Life is worth more than the cost of tires.
Also, you don't want to be on the side of the road waiting for hours for a Tire Dealer to show up to Replace your flat tire.
I am buying a 2007 CC Affinity and the First Thing I will do is Replace all of the Tires on that Puppy so I have Peace of Mind while driving and knowing I will not be stuck on the side of the road waiting and waiting and waiting for a Replacement to show up.
Yahoo Message Number: 79322 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/79322)
Listen to the voices of experience in this group. The tires will need to be replaced. I evaluated the tires on a coach that we bought a few months ago by examining the tread depth and looking for signs of cracking in the sidewalls. I thought they looked okay, but we blew a tire in the first 500 miles on our first trip. Then I learned to look for the age of the tires and found that mine were way too old. Multiple tire people and RV owners told me pretty much the same thing. Their time limits varied from 5-7 years, but they all agreed age is usually the determining factor on rv tires, not mileage or tread depth. Thank goodness our blowout didn't cause an accident. It was on the dual and we were able to limp in to town.
Hope you enjoy your coach.
Jerry
1997 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 80559 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/80559)
Time to replace the Toyo's (11R/22.5). Want to go with Michelin after reading about so many people being happy with the change. However I wasn't smart enough to write anything down. Tire of choice, size, etc. The local dealer says XZA 3 is best choice. Comments??? Thanks...Ray Insrire 51692
Yahoo Message Number: 80561 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/80561)
XZA3 is a great tire, for me anyway. Smooth ride, straight tracking, and better than 10% improvement in fuel economy at 10 lbs less tire pressure.
Had Toyo's before, and liked them. Until I got the Michelins. 11R/22.5, load range H. Go for the FMCA/Michelin deal.
Jay
05 Inspire 51457
Yahoo Message Number: 80571 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/80571)
I have the Michelin XZA3 tires on my Inspire. Nice ride, quiet and slight improvement in fuel economy.
I think you will like them
RJ
2005 Inspire #51264
Yahoo Message Number: 80585 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/80585)
Ray,
I just put the XZ COACH michelin tires on Tuesday. I went with the "XZ COACH" because they were a load range higher, Load Range J, than the XZA's. They are new and made for coaches.
Mark & Helen Surber
07 Intrigue 12162
C13 Cat Allison Trans
06 Rubicon LJ
Yahoo Message Number: 80587 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/80587)
Ray, I also put new steer tires on our coach. We put Michelin XZE tires on and what a difference in handling. We bought them thur FMCA. John/ 2003 Allure 30951
Yahoo Message Number: 81359 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/81359)
Has anyone tried the Continental HSR2 SA tire 295/80R22.5 as a replacement for the Goodyear G670.
Yahoo Message Number: 81361 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/81361)
Looks like a great choice, I chose the 315 HSL1, because I wanted the same diameter as my 12R. They have the same loaded width as the 295 your looking at. Because the tread pattern is closer to my former XZ2 and the Xze. I imagine you will get a similar ride, and a quiet ride too. My HSL1 have a more aggressive tread and our a touch nosier on Oregon asphalt and concrete, but not as bad as the
Toyos I had originally. The ride is as smooth as Michelins at 120 lbs up front. I have sinced lowered the pressure to 112 lbs which matches the load carrying capacity of my wheels with a 5% factor to allow speeds up to 70 mp with the 4% load rating loss. I am off to Portland tomorrow and will update everyone. I got the 315's from BOB Dickman in Junction City for the same price as 12R Michelin XZE.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731 PS. TELL US THE MODEL AND SERIAL NUMBER OF YOUR CC>
Yahoo Message Number: 81365 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/81365)
Thank you for your input. Bob Dickman was $600 more than having the tires replaced here in So. Cal. That does not include the fuel to JC.
Jan Schaffer 2006 Intrigue 12007
Yahoo Message Number: 81367 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/81367)
Hi JanI had very good luck and service with Parker Tire in Santa Ana.....just thought I would mention them to you....
Jan 06 intrigue 11951
Yahoo Message Number: 87916 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87916)
I recently purchased a 1996 CC Intrique, 36ft. It needs new tires, among other things.
Does anyone have experience, good or bad with different tire brands on this coach? I have talked to a couple tire dealers, with differing opinions.
Dave
96 Intrique 36'
Yahoo Message Number: 87917 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87917)
Dave: I would do a search in the archives as this topic has been discussed many many many times on the forum. I believe the amount of info in the archives will keep you busy reading for several hours, if not days. There are widespread opinions regarding tires and the cost as well as experiences. If you decide to go with Michelin, make sure to check out the FMCA tire purchasing program. Best of luck.
Roger Harper
2006 Intrigue
#11990
Yahoo Message Number: 87918 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87918)
Have used Toyo and Bridgestone on my rig with success.
Yahoo Message Number: 87919 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87919)
Have had good results with TOYO for several years.
RUSSELL WARREN '95 INTRIGUE 36 FT
Yahoo Message Number: 87921 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87921)
I have Hankook Tires all the way around, and quite impressed with them. Paid around $475 per tire plus all the other fees. In November2012 I paid about $1100 mounted and balancing beads. I was happy to get rid of the Goodyear G670's that were on the front.
Steve & Jane
1998 Intrigue
#10557
______
Yahoo Message Number: 87922 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87922)
There is a ton of info in the archives. I am sort of a CC newbie and had to recently get tires, so I will give you my 2 bits, for what it is worth! Tires are sort of a Ford/Chevy thing. It seems that you are either in the Michelin camp or not. If you are that is the only thing you buy. If you are not, then there are many other good choices. The only tire that I could really find that no one liked was Goodyear.
I bought Michelin 8 XZA2 Energy 315/80/r22.5 for all positions including the tag. The FMCA price sealed the deal for me. I would not have bought the Michelins if they had been at full price since I feel I could get similar tires (Toyo or Continentals) at a lower price. The Michelin FMCA price made them very attractive.
Here is the link to my post on the details: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Country-Coach-Owners/message/87791 (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Country-Coach-Owners/message/87791)
Good Luck!
Dan
2006 Allure with tag
#31344
Yahoo Message Number: 87924 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/87924)
At the advice of Pat at Pro Tires in Denton TX who used to work on Prevost, we got rid of our Toyos and bought B F Goodrich ST230's. Ride much better than the Toyos. We have had them for several years and put many many miles on them and are very pleased. Lonny is a "tire guy" and was impressed with Pat's knowledge. The B F Goodrich are made in the USA and they are owned by Michelin. The Goodrich tires are much cheaper than the Michelins. Pat came to our RV site, changed all 6 tires, laser aligned and balanced. Ride and drive much improved.
Lonny & Diane Livingston
'04 Allure #31065
Yahoo Message Number: 95877 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95877)
OK, apologies in advance...this group is awesome with the response and advice in our new endeavor. I need to put new feet on my 2002 Intrigue. 12R/22.5 from factory, front and rear. I'm an FMCA member, and trying to arrange a Michelin purchase, but cannot find that tire in their current lineup. Have things changed, or am I just missing the obvious? And by the way, thanks to all the folks for the advice on the Michelin shop and alignment shop in Orlando.
Ron
Ron Ten Haken
(321)258-7992
Ron Ten Haken
(321)258-7992
Yahoo Message Number: 95880 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95880)
Ron, have you followed the FMCA guidelines? I've posted here:
Michelin Advantage program - instructions (http://fmca.com/join-family-motor-coach-association/member-benefits/fmca-connections/3448)
(http://fmca.com/images/fmca_online_logo.gif) (http://fmca.com/join-family-motor-coach-association/member-benefits/fmca-connections/3448)
Michelin Advantage program - instructions (http://fmca.com/join-family-motor-coach-association/member-benefits/fmca-connections/3448) FMCA members can receive discounts on Michelin RV tires through the FMCA Michelin Advantage Program.
View on fmca.com (http://fmca.com/join-family-motor-coach-association/member-benefits/fmca-connections/3448)
Thank, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898
Yahoo Message Number: 95919 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95919)
Mike, I think Ron is referring to the fact that one can scour Michelin's website for a 12R22.5 size tire and not find one listed, rather than any particular issue with following the FMCA program guidelines.
Yahoo Message Number: 95924 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95924)
I certainly could have read his post incorrectly, in case I did the Michelin XZE 12R 22.5 is their Catalog Number #85335. I run these tire on my coach.
Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898
Yahoo Message Number: 95925 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95925)
Thanks Mike. No issues with FMCA, could not find the tire on the Michelin site. Thanks for this info!
Ron
Ron Ten Haken
321-258-7992
Yahoo Message Number: 95931 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95931)
Exactly. Has anyone gotten 12R's under FMCA?
Rich 2002 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 95936 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95936)
I did earlier this year in Yuma, AZ. FMCA program worked slick.
Don Krahling
'01Intrigue #11238
Yahoo Message Number: 95938 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95938)
We bought our 12R22.5 in Oct 2013 at Keiser Alignment, Eugene Or. Total price for 6 under the FMCA program less than $4,300. Very Satisfied.
Denny Bird
2001 Intrigue 36" 11271
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Yahoo Message Number: 95944 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95944)
Thanks Mike! Folks, it looks like when you're on the Michelin Man website page for the XZE and don't see the 12R22.5 size listed, click on the "DOWNLOAD BROCHURE" button on the bottom of the page and the brochure has the 12R size listed.
Had me baffled before Mike's confirmation and catalogue number.
Yahoo Message Number: 95959 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95959)
Thanks, guys. I went to the FMCA site and they do not list 12R 22.5. What am I missing? Csl
Yahoo Message Number: 95987 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/95987)
Isn't that just a partial list of popular tires -- don't you have to join FMCA and the program to see the entire list?
Yahoo Message Number: 97191 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/97191)
The new CC is not the old original CC, so you may get a small discount but don't count on it. I imagine HWH in Moscow Iowa could do it faster and more efficiently at a lower over all cost. As I remember I went from being 2 mph under at 60 mph indicated to 4 miles per hour over 60 mph indicated. The great thing was I could lower the tire pressures and get a much smoother ride. Les Schwab didn't have any Michelins in stock in 2000 as they were all sold out and taxed from having to replace all the Toyos.
I ended up being very happy with Continentals for the next 4 years.
Michelin is now making the XZA3 as I remember in the 275R80 size and its a much improved tire over what was available in 2000. The 275 R80 Michelin was causing concern over at Foretravel at the time with the larger 320 model. 270's and 290 models with smaller engines and radiators weighing much less had no issues.
Of all the tires over the years I would rate the Continental 275R80's of my Allure and the Michelin XZ2
12R I had on my Intrigue as my favorite tires. Its a shame the XZ2 suffered premature wall cracking, or it would have easily taken the my over all favorite tire. Friends with XZA3 say they really love the tire on their Allegros, older Foretravels and Allures. Thomas W. Insall, jr.
(TWI) 2004 Intrigue 11731, 98
Allure 30255
Yahoo Message Number: 97192 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/97192)
The new CC is not the old original CC, so you may get a small discount but don't count on it. I imagine HWH in Moscow Iowa could do it faster and more efficiently at a lower over all cost. As I remember I went from being 2 mph under at 60 mph indicated to 4 miles per hour over 60 mph indicated. The great thing was I could lower the tire pressures and get a much smoother ride. Les Schwab didn't have any Michelins in stock in 2000 as they were all sold out and taxed from having to replace all the Toyos.
I ended up being very happy with Continentals for the next 4 years.
Michelin is now making the XZA3 as I remember in the 275R80 size and its a much improved tire over what was available in 2000. The 275 R80 Michelin was causing concern over at Foretravel at the time with the larger 320 model. 270's and 290 models with smaller engines and radiators weighing much less had no issues.
Of all the tires over the years I would rate the Continental 275R80's of my Allure and the Michelin XZ2
12R I had on my Intrigue as my favorite tires. Its a shame the XZ2 suffered premature wall cracking, or
it would have easily taken the my over all favorite tire. Friends with XZA3 say they really love the tire on their Allegros, older Foretravels and Allures. Thomas W. Insall, jr.
(TWI) 2004 Intrigue 11731, 98
Allure 30255
Yahoo Message Number: 793 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/793)
Hi Paul Thomas,
I will take a shot at this one. No matter who the manufacturer is all slide out coaches are heavy on the front left wheel, keep this in mind as your reading this. Back in 1999 the Allure and Intrigue used smaller 275 / 70R / 22.5 Toyo tires (low profile) and everything was great. Up to 1999 all models used a "solid front axle" as well so even though they were heavier on the front drivers wheel a solid axle will equally distribute the wieght difference to each wheel better than IFS. In model year 2000 CC went to (IFS) independent front suspension which made a world of difference in the turning radius, much sharper BUT now you have chopped your front axle (IFS) so any wieght difference is placed directly on that tire. Now combine the above with CC sending there units out with the tire pressure around 100psi cold and what happenend is at the Ames Iowa FMCA rally where it was really hot outside we had a new 2000 small tire Intrigue 40' come pulling in with the front left wheel well destroyed. Turns out his front left tire got a bit hot and she blew. All this was going on as Fleetwood was recalling massive amounts of coachs for the same reason. This is where the recall started. CC did a "ride hieght valve" update which transfered some of the weight from the drivers side to the passnegers side and replaced the front tires with new ones at max tire inflation. The rear tires have never failed or blown, nor is there a weight problem on the rear with the dual wheels so that is why the recall only pertains to the front.
Damon
Yahoo Message Number: 795 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/795)
Damon, I need some advice. I have gone thru the tire and height adjustment valve recall on my old '99 Intrigue and now I have a tire recall on my '00 Magna. On the Intrigue one tire was separating at the tread. On the Magna, both tires had to be replaced before the recall was received. The toe-in was wrong and the tires were run under-inflated which ruined both tires before I noticed it.
I have now received the recall on the Magna and two new tires are waiting for me in Alb. NM. Since I have already replaced the front tires with new ones, it seems to me I don't need them and I'll just sell them if I can. What do you think? Jerry in NM.
Yahoo Message Number: 796 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/796)
Jerry,
I would keep the tires for a bit as "spares" just in case. Even if you trade in the future CC still uses the 12R / 22.5 Toyo, its your call.
Damon
Yahoo Message Number: 799 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/799)
Jerry, Curious as to your coach number. As far as I know my 2000 Magna #5908 has had no recall on tires.
Tom B.
Yahoo Message Number: 800 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/800)
1998-40' Intrigue Dsl
"Cooks Delight" floorplan
Galley Slide
350HP ISC Cummins
45,515. miles
Allison 6 Speed
Tile Galley and Bath
Washer Dryer
Alcoa Wheels
All Awnings (Zipp Dee)
Dual Pane Windows
Stored Inside
One Owner
Non Smoker
Asking $125,000.00
Yahoo Message Number: 809 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/809)
Tom, sorry I took so long to answer. I didn't see your question and someone else told me about it. My Magna serial is 5766. The recall covers a long list of serials for the Gillig and Dynomax chassis. If you are in the Country Coach data base they would have mailed you a notice by now. The recall affects Magna's from 1991-1999. Since mine has a '99 chassis I was affected. Contact CC Chassis service rep. in you are not sure.