After 50,000 miles of trouble-free driving on our original 12R22.5 Toyos, we replaced all 6 with 12R22.5 siped Toyos for $2684.12 at Dickman's Schwab in JCity in Aug.,2005 filled with 120/110 psi. No discounts were allowed. When not given a warranty contract, Dickmans informed me they DO NOT warranty large truck / RV tires. Also, without asking, re-used our 5 year old valve stems, "We're saving you $24.00 / tire"..."we never have a problem". Approx. 300 miles later, stopped , turned a corner, and within 50 yards, the L.Front blew out. The valve cap PLUS the threaded tip of the valve stem were completely blown off. We arranged for a replacement at Schwab in Ogden, Ut. When told I would have to pay for the new tire, I couldn't believe it. Calls were made betw Ogden and JCity Schwabs. They agreed, there would be no charge. Schwab informed me "it must have been a rock/ OR??? causing the 1st blowout??? While the Ogden tech installed the LFront, he noticed both inner duals were low or flat. He demo'ed the L inner dual leaking with soap water. Ogden Schwab then replaced valve stems in both rear inner tires. Before departing Schwab Ogden that next morning, I checked the LFront new tire pressure, and the air would not stop leaking out the valve. They replaced the valve stem and valve core on that LFront. Then, approx. 4-5 days later in Nebraska, I checked the tire pres. in LFront, again, the air would not stop coming out. A local farm tire co. replaced valve stem and valve, paid by Schwab, JCity.
Now spooked, I did not check the pressures for nearly 6 months. We have not had any tire probs since the valves stems and valve cores were replaced at other tire dealers. When I discussed having 5 flats in the tire's 1st 1500 miles with Mgr. John Edwards, at Dickmans Schwab in JCity, said, "I can only conclude, you must have done something wrong when checking the tires". OUCH!!
After 50,000 miles over 4+ years, on the original tires, with frequent tire pres. checks, etc., without a problem ??? In 50 years of driving, I've never experienced such a prob. BTW, I use the pres. guage bought from Schwab, JCity. He did send me 6 flow-through valve caps.
To find the below page I followed the " How to Access the NHTSA website" in the TOYO bulletin I just sent the forum by F. Koval, etc. In the past, we've always been happy with Schwab. Don, 2000 Allure, 30580, 2002 CRV.
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Report Date : March 30, 2006 at 04:59 AM NHTSA Action Number : EA05011
NHTSA Action Number : EA05011 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A Make / Models : Model/Build Years: COUNTRY COACH / ALLURE 1996-2000
COUNTRY COACH / INTRIGUE 1995-2000
Manufacturer : COUNTRY COACH INC Component : TIRES
Date Investigation Opened : July 14, 2005 Date Investigation Closed : Open Summary:
COUNTRY COACH HAS IDENTIFIED 21 INCIDENTS OF FRONT TIRE FAILURES (16 DRIVER'S SIDE AND 5 PASSENGER SIDE) THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN MODEL YEAR 1995-2000 COUNTRY COACH INTRIGUE AND ALLURE VEHICLES AFTER THESE VEHICLES HAD BEEN MODIFIED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ONE OR MORE SERVICE PROGRAMS / SAFETY CAMPAIGNS (99V-288, SB00-01, 01V-170, AND/OR 02V-229) THAT WERE INTENDED TO CORRECT INADEQUATE FRONT TIRE LOAD CARRYING CAPACITY IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES BY REPLACING FRONT TIRES, CHANGING THE RECOMMENDED FRONT TIRE PRESSURES, AND/OR REDUCING OR REDISTRIBUTING THE FRONT AXLE LOADS. ON MAY 6, 2005, ODI RECEIVED ONE ADDITIONAL OWNER COMPLAINT (VOQ 10124716) ALLEGING THAT THE DRIVER'S SIDE FRONT TIRE INSTALLED IN A 1997 INTRIGUE VEHICLE HAD FAILED ON APRIL 12, 2005. THIS VEHICLE'S FRONT TIRES HAD BEEN REPLACED IN MAY 2001 IN RESPONSE TO COUNTRY COACH CAMPAIGN 01V-089. ODI INTENDS TO CONDUCT FURTHER INVESTIGATION TO EVALUATE WHETHER THE CAMPAIGNS (LISTED ABOVE), WHICH WERE INTENDED TO CORRECT TIRE FAILURES, ARE ADEQUATE AND/OR EFFECTIVE.
Check to Request Research. Submit below.
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Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Dan & Ann on April 02, 2006, 11:00:49 am
Yahoo Message Number: 22040 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22040)I had a front tire develop a slow leak due to failing valve stem seal, so this may be more common than one might expect. I check tire pressure before I pull out every time and carry an on-board 110V air compressor to add air as needed.
This investigation concerns me as I have that modification with the Continentals on the front of my '98 Allure 36'. It's about time to replace these tires, what should I use that will have the required load rating or maybe even a bit more for safety?
Dan & Ann
'98 Allure #30180
Quote from: don94526
Hi All:
After 50,000 miles of trouble-free driving on our original 12R22.5 > Toyos, we replaced all 6 with 12R22.5 siped Toyos for $2684.12 at > Dickman's Schwab in JCity in Aug.,2005 filled with 120/110 psi. No discounts were allowed. When not given a warranty contract, > Dickmans informed me they DO NOT warranty large truck / RV tires. Also, without asking, re-used our 5 year old valve stems, "We're > saving you $24.00 / tire"..."we never have a problem". Approx. 300 > miles later, stopped , turned a corner, and within 50 yards, the > L.Front blew out. The valve cap PLUS the threaded tip of the valve > stem were completely blown off. We arranged for a replacement at > Schwab in Ogden, Ut. When told I would have to pay for the new > tire, I couldn't believe it. Calls were made betw Ogden and JCity > Schwabs. They agreed, there would be no charge. Schwab informed > me "it must have been a rock/ OR??? causing the 1st blowout??? > While the Ogden tech installed the LFront, he noticed both inner > duals were low or flat. He demo'ed the L inner dual leaking with > soap water. Ogden Schwab then replaced valve stems in both rear > inner tires. Before departing Schwab Ogden that next morning, I > checked the LFront new tire pressure, and the air would not stop > leaking out the valve. They replaced the valve stem and valve core > on that LFront. Then, approx. 4-5 days later in Nebraska, I
checked
Quote
the tire pres. in LFront, again, the air would not stop coming
out.
Quote
A local farm tire co. replaced valve stem and valve, paid by
Schwab,
Quote
JCity.
Now spooked, I did not check the pressures for nearly 6 months. We > have not had any tire probs since the valves stems and valve cores > were replaced at other tire dealers. When I discussed having 5 flats in the tire's 1st 1500 miles with > Mgr. John Edwards, at Dickmans Schwab in JCity, said, "I can only > conclude, you must have done something wrong when checking the > tires". OUCH!!
After 50,000 miles over 4+ years, on the original tires, with > frequent tire pres. checks, etc., without a problem ??? In 50
years
Quote
of driving, I've never experienced such a prob. BTW, I use the
pres.
Quote
guage bought from Schwab, JCity. He did send me 6 flow-through > valve caps.
To find the below page I followed the " How to Access the NHTSA > website" in the TOYO bulletin I just sent the forum by F. Koval,
etc.
Quote
In the past, we've always been happy with Schwab. Don, 2000 Allure, 30580, 2002 CRV.
Complaints Defect Investigations Recalls Service Bulletins Navigate: ODI Home » Defect Investigations » Search »
Results
Quote
List
Contact
1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236)
TTY
1-800-424-9153 or 1-202-484-5238
Search Results
Report Date : March 30, 2006 at 04:59 AM > NHTSA Action Number : EA05011
NHTSA Action Number : EA05011 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A > Make / Models : Model/Build Years: > COUNTRY COACH / ALLURE 1996-2000 >
COUNTRY COACH / INTRIGUE 1995-2000 >
Manufacturer : COUNTRY COACH INC > Component : TIRES
Date Investigation Opened : July 14, 2005 > Date Investigation Closed : Open > Summary:
COUNTRY COACH HAS IDENTIFIED 21 INCIDENTS OF FRONT TIRE FAILURES > (16 DRIVER'S SIDE AND 5 PASSENGER SIDE) THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN
MODEL
Quote
YEAR 1995-2000 COUNTRY COACH INTRIGUE AND ALLURE VEHICLES AFTER > THESE VEHICLES HAD BEEN MODIFIED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ONE OR MORE > SERVICE PROGRAMS / SAFETY CAMPAIGNS (99V-288, SB00-01, 01V-170, > AND/OR 02V-229) THAT WERE INTENDED TO CORRECT INADEQUATE FRONT
TIRE
Quote
LOAD CARRYING CAPACITY IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES BY REPLACING FRONT > TIRES, CHANGING THE RECOMMENDED FRONT TIRE PRESSURES, AND/OR > REDUCING OR REDISTRIBUTING THE FRONT AXLE LOADS. ON MAY 6, 2005,
ODI
Quote
RECEIVED ONE ADDITIONAL OWNER COMPLAINT (VOQ 10124716) ALLEGING
THAT
Quote
THE DRIVER'S SIDE FRONT TIRE INSTALLED IN A 1997 INTRIGUE VEHICLE > HAD FAILED ON APRIL 12, 2005. THIS VEHICLE'S FRONT TIRES HAD BEEN > REPLACED IN MAY 2001 IN RESPONSE TO COUNTRY COACH CAMPAIGN 01V-
089.
Quote
ODI INTENDS TO CONDUCT FURTHER INVESTIGATION TO EVALUATE WHETHER
THE
Quote
CAMPAIGNS (LISTED ABOVE), WHICH WERE INTENDED TO CORRECT TIRE > FAILURES, ARE ADEQUATE AND/OR EFFECTIVE.
Check to Request Research. Submit below.
NHTSA Home | ODI Home | Complaints | Defect Investigations |
Recalls
Quote
| Service Bulletins | Privacy Policy >
--
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Agent8995 on April 02, 2006, 04:37:49 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 22042 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22042)It would be interesting to know if Schwab of JC balanced your new Toyos. They did mine, when I replaced them last year. After it was done, I found out that they used a product called Equal. It is basically a bag of powder that breaks apart in the first few miles of driving. The powder is supposed to move opposite the heavy spot thus continuously balancing the tire as you move. Last October, at a South West CC rally in Palm Desert, the folks form Nat. Hyw Saftey were examining our Coaches by checking weight and air pressure. In conversation, they mentioned that Equal was messing up their pressure guages. It seems that the power was sticking in their instruments. Could it also stick in the valve stem?? So far, I have had no problem and run the front at 120 and rear at 110.
Back to the original question.
I believe you will also find that the Toyos of today are much better in load rating than back in the 90's. Schwab was the least expensive of the 5 dealers I checked and the only one with Toyos in stock. I ended up driving 500 miles (round trip to the nearest Schwab) and still saved almost $900 on a set of 6 ** 275/70/22.5. The weight max at 130 is listed at 6945 lbs single and 6355 lbs dual. Fortunately, that is well over my actual weights.
Good Luck, Rob
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Agent8995 on April 02, 2006, 04:47:01 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 22043 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22043)It would be interesting to know if Schwab of JC balanced your new Toyos. They did mine, when I replaced them last year. After it was done, I found out that they used a product called Equal. It is basically a bag of powder that breaks apart in the first few miles of driving. The powder is supposed to move opposite the heavy spot thus continuously balancing the tire as you move. Last October, at a South West CC rally in Palm Desert, the folks form Nat. Hyw Saftey were examining our Coaches by checking weight and air pressure. In conversation, they mentioned that Equal was messing up their pressure guages. It seems that the power was sticking in their instruments. Could it also stick in the valve stem?? So far, I have had no problem and run the front at 120 and rear at 110.
Back to the original question.
I believe you will also find that the Toyos of today are much better in load rating than back in the 90's. Schwab was the least expensive of the 5 dealers I checked and the only one with Toyos in stock. I ended up driving 500 miles (round trip to the nearest Schwab) and still saved almost $900 on a set of 6 ** 275/70/22.5. The weight max at 130 is listed at 6945 lbs single and 6355 lbs dual. Fortunately, that is well over my actual weights.
Good Luck, Rob
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Jim Hughes on April 02, 2006, 05:24:05 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 22046 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22046)That weight rating may be fine at 130psi, but what is the rating at your operating pressure (110/120)? You may find that your ALCOA rims are rated at 120psi max. Tires should be compared at your operating pressure of your vehicle.
Jim Hughes
2000 Allure #30511
Quote from: agent8995
It would be interesting to know if Schwab of JC balanced your new Toyos. They did mine, when I replaced them last year. After it
was
Quote
done, I found out that they used a product called Equal. It is > basically a bag of powder that breaks apart in the first few miles > of driving. The powder is supposed to move opposite the heavy
spot
Quote
thus continuously balancing the tire as you move. Last October,
at
Quote
a South West CC rally in Palm Desert, the folks form Nat. Hyw
Saftey
Quote
were examining our Coaches by checking weight and air pressure.
In
Quote
conversation, they mentioned that Equal was messing up their > pressure guages. It seems that the power was sticking in their > instruments. Could it also stick in the valve stem?? So far, I > have had no problem and run the front at 120 and rear at 110.
Back to the original question.
I believe you will also find that the Toyos of today are much
better
Quote
in load rating than back in the 90's. Schwab was the least > expensive of the 5 dealers I checked and the only one with Toyos
in
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires +Dually Valves+Pressure Pro
Post by: Don94526 on April 03, 2006, 03:30:25 am
Thanks for the comments. Yes, all our new Toyos tires were balanced when installed. My sense is that our tire failures were also due to faulty valve cores, not the Toyos themselves. I believe they do use a powder when you have Smart Tire. We don't have the Smart Tire, however, did consider installing it with the new tires. I'm not aware of any "balancing" powder being being included inside the tires. About a month ago we installed new chrome "Dually" valve stems via www.borgtiresupply.com (http://www.borgtiresupply.com) ($100.00+S/H) made for Country Coach. They eliminate the need for valve extensions, etc. We've also installed the Pressure Pro system which monitors air pressure on all 10 tires of our coach and Toad. Don, 2000 36'Allure #30580
============================================================== seal, so this may be more common than one might expect. I check tire pressure before I pull out every time and carry an on-board 110V air compressor to add air as needed. Dan> ===============================================================
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires +Dually Valves+Pressure Pro
Post by: Dan & Ann on April 03, 2006, 04:09:49 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 22069 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22069)I sent CC an email asking about what tires they were recommending for replacing the Continentals they used in this service fix and got this reply:
"Our records indicate that the front tires were replaced with Continental 275/80R/22.5 Tires, which require 115 PSI to meet the Maximum Load Rating of the Front Suspension.
The recodes also indicate that the coach was equipped with 10R/22.5 Tires on the rear which require 100 PSI to meet the load capacity.
Currently Country Coach uses Goodyear G670RV tires as standard equipment on all of our coaches with Michelins as an option. Through experience we do know that the Continentals provide good tire life and performance, making them a good choice."
Dan
Allure #30180
Quote from: don94526
Rob/Dan:
Thanks for the comments. Yes, all our new Toyos tires were
balanced when
Quote
installed.
My sense is that our tire failures were also due to faulty valve
cores,
Quote
not the Toyos themselves. I believe they do use a powder when you have Smart Tire. We don't have the Smart Tire, however, did consider installing it
with
Quote
the new tires. I'm not aware of any "balancing" powder being being > included inside the tires.
About a month ago we installed new chrome "Dually" valve stems via > www.borgtiresupply.com http://www.borgtiresupply.com>
($100.00+S/H)
Quote
made for Country Coach. They eliminate the need for valve
extensions,
Quote
etc. We've also installed the Pressure Pro system which monitors
air
Quote
pressure on all 10 tires of our coach and Toad. Don, 2000 36'Allure #30580
> seal, so this may be more common than one might expect. I check > tire pressure before I pull out every time and carry an on-board > 110V air compressor to add air as needed. Dan> >
> It would be interesting to know if Schwab of JC balanced your new > > Toyos. They did mine, when I replaced them last year. After it
was
Quote
done, I found out that they used a product called Equal. It is > > basically a bag of powder that breaks apart in the first few
miles
Quote
of driving. The powder is supposed to move opposite the heavy
spot
Quote
thus continuously balancing the tire as you move. Last October,
at
Quote
a South West CC rally in Palm Desert, the folks form Nat. Hyw
Saftey
Quote
were examining our Coaches by checking weight and air pressure.
In
Quote
conversation, they mentioned that Equal was messing up their > > pressure guages. It seems that the power was sticking in their > > instruments. Could it also stick in the valve stem?? So far, I > > have had no problem and run the front at 120 and rear at 110. >
> Back to the original question. >
> I believe you will also find that the Toyos of today are much
better
Quote
in load rating than back in the 90's. Schwab was the least > > expensive of the 5 dealers I checked and the only one with Toyos
in
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Agent8995 on April 09, 2006, 11:21:19 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 22178 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22178)Thanks Jim you are correct. The rims are rated for 120 PSI. One of the reasons I use 110/120. I pointed that out to the NHTSA folks at Emerald Desert and got the comment, "gee that is interesting we had better make a note". "But I wouldn't worry about it there is always a safety factor built in by the manufacture." The CC recommended inflation tag that was added to my coach as a recall item clearly states 125 PSI. Previously I believe it was 110. (Back at Emerald Desert) NHTSA had a table of weights and pressures that showed percentage reductions at relative lower pressures. As it turns out, my coach is about 5% off max load limits shown on the tires and I have a lot of excess even then, based on full tanks and a 4 point weigh.
Still... The real tire secret seems to be don't let them get old.
And no I don't sell tires.
Rob Brown 99 Intrigue
Quote from: Jim Hughes
That weight rating may be fine at 130psi, but what is the rating
at
Quote
your operating pressure (110/120)? You may find that your ALCOA > rims are rated at 120psi max. Tires should be compared at your > operating pressure of your vehicle.
Jim Hughes
2000 Allure #30511
[quote author=agent8995"
>
> It would be interesting to know if Schwab of JC balanced your
new
Quote
Toyos. They did mine, when I replaced them last year. After it > was
> done, I found out that they used a product called Equal. It is > > basically a bag of powder that breaks apart in the first few
miles
Quote
of driving. The powder is supposed to move opposite the heavy > spot
> thus continuously balancing the tire as you move. Last October, > at
> a South West CC rally in Palm Desert, the folks form Nat. Hyw > Saftey
> were examining our Coaches by checking weight and air pressure. In
> conversation, they mentioned that Equal was messing up their > > pressure guages. It seems that the power was sticking in their > > instruments. Could it also stick in the valve stem?? So far, I > > have had no problem and run the front at 120 and rear at 110. >
> Back to the original question. >
> I believe you will also find that the Toyos of today are much > better
> in load rating than back in the 90's. Schwab was the least > > expensive of the 5 dealers I checked and the only one with Toyos > in
> stock. I ended up driving 500 miles (round trip to the nearest > > Schwab) and still saved almost $900 on a set of 6 **
275/70/22.5.
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Vick Welsh on April 11, 2006, 07:27:31 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 22211 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/22211)I talked to a investigator at NHTSA in requards to EA 05011 investigation as my RF tire on my 99 Intrigue had blown out in March of last year. All tires on my coach had dot dates of mid to late 99. We discussed the CCI weight placards and the 125 psi. He told me he had seen a letter from Alcoa raising the pressure from 120 to 125 psi on their rims. I do not like to run with that much pressure and when my tire blew, Toyos were on back order CCI recommended Goodyear or Bridgestone and since the Bridgestone was rated at 7000 lbs and the speed rating was 75 mph I put on Bridgestones.
VickWelsh
Intrigue 10714
Title: Re: 12R Toyo Tires Experience + NHTSA Defects Investigation
Post by: Pcummings4 on April 11, 2006, 08:45:43 pm