Yahoo Message Number: 25865 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25865)
As a long time CC owner, I am distressed to read on this board of severe problems some people are having with some of the new coaches, especially Doris with the Inspire, and an apparent lack of attention being given to these problems by CC. This is not the attitude I have experienced over the years as I have found fairness in all my dealings with CC. Surely someone in CC management is aware of Doris horrendous experience and the fact that it is being widely discussed among the owners.
Some comments have been made that once the warranty is over CC wants nothing to do with the coach. My experience has been contrary to this as they took care of me with some serious problems after warranty, most notably an electrolysis problem on both slides and skid plate protection on my engine. They worked with me long after warranty expired to solve the " desert storm problem."
Is it possible things changed drastically after Bob Lee's departure, both in customer service and initial quality of coaches coming off the line? I hope not as CC has had a fine reputation up to now. One thing I did that I'm sure helped was to attend as many CCI rallies as I could and develop some rapport with CC factory personnel. Doug Rutherford is one fine guy who will go the extra mile for you. In the early days Jim Cooley was my primary contact with CC and gave outstanding service. Bob Lee was well aware that the best marketing people he had were people like Doug and Jim in the service end of the business. Maybe the current management doesn't know this?
Food for thought.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811 ( still for sale )
Yahoo Message Number: 25867 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25867)
Walt, I had a 99 Allure and now a 2005 Allure. My experiences with Country Coach are similiar to yours.
They have been helpful and fair in my dealings with them, both in warranty and out of warranty. In fact, far better than one would expect on most occassion.
Biggest issue is the Pioneer Nav system "boat anchor" that came on the coach. CC has actually done all they can helping me with Pioneer, but there just seems to be no solution using the current Pioneer software and maps programs.
Good Luck selling your unit. I remember you buying it in Ft. Benning I believe it was.
Best Regards
Ray and Rue
05 Allure 31176
Yahoo Message Number: 25868 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25868)
Very good, your point is well taken. I had a long conversation with Mr. Cooley one time, and his point was "some people just want to be unhappy" and I am sure that is true. I 'am concerned also, and I think Doris has sure had her share of problems.
Yahoo Message Number: 25870 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25870)
Walt:
Very interesting post!
I had contact with a CC liaison directly during this last repair. He was at McMahon's newest service facility when my coach came in for its current problems. Since the coach was then almost 2 months old (to us), had been in repair shops all this time and had exterior damage, warping from towing with resultant slide damage and bathroom door that swung both ways and a chronic dead battery problem he needed a detailed explanation of why this damage occurred before he'd authorize the cosmetic warranty work.
In a follow up conversation, I was trying to find out why McMahon had the coach so long, why they won't tell us specifically what they have done to it, whether they diagnosed and fixed the 'dead battery' problem or did they just charge the battery again as the last repair shop did and tell us it is fixed. It came out in the conversation that he, the CC service liaison, saw my story on this site, but that he's just an employee who works for CC and can do nothing to help me except what's within his scope of employment. Although this was a telephone conversation, I could sense he was biting his tongue.....I'd love to know what was really on his mind
Both he and McMahon have been artful dodgers on this dead battery issue for a month now and we had decided to pick the coach up today whether they completed the warranty work or not. We told McMahon this yesterday. We were hoping to take it out and try it this weekend, you know....sleep in it, maybe turn the TV on.....touch buttons and knobs, imagine what I'd put in the cupboards, how we'd organize the bays.........see if we could get excited about owning it.
The very first call we received this morning was from McMahon stating that the battery was very low today and they cannot understand why it had discharged, the coach had not been plugged in for a couple days, but everything was off so it should not have discharged so much. (We've been telling them this for a month now and fixing this was high on our list. We even sent a string we found here regarding chronic dead battery fix suggestions.). McMahon is stating they need to check with the CC rep for authorization and in the next sentence have told us they were given a blank authorization to do whatever warranty work needed to be done. Bottom line is they don't want to release the coach to us today. They can't find the paperwork stating what all they have done to it and they don't know when it will be ready..
In the past, I have without success tried leaving messages for management, so I can be sure they are aware of my problem. I mentioned this to my customer care liaison...and he said management is very aware of this problem. I was told after each repair, the coach is fixed....period.
Well, it's not, is it. Its been 3 months now since we anxiously awaited delivery of our new coach, tow car loaded with supplies, bags packed and ready to depart on our new retirement life. I think this is aptly called a 'failure to launch'. .
Doris
2006 Un Inspired and Un Launched Inspire 360
Yahoo Message Number: 25871 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25871)
The statement Mr. Cooley made "some people just want to be unhappy" does not sound like a good management statement...period. It portrays a bad attitude about customer relations that can become contagious amongst management and customer relations personnel. It can be a company's downfall. The statement is really a cop out, when management fails to grasp the problem or will not grasp the problem.
It may explain why we have been so frustrated for almost 3 months now and why management failed to return our calls..
I've owned my own very successful business for over 30 years and even if I thought that about a particularly problematic customer, I would never, ever make that statement to anyone! Its a sloppy attitude.
Doris
Unhappy Inspire Owner
Yahoo Message Number: 25873 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25873)
As their stock value continues to fall, partially due to market and partially to management decisions, attitudes and cost saving measures become more important.... Most of the major makers right now are pulling back on anything they can to survive.... I think the stock value is around 4.40 a share..... Unfortunately, people with real problems are not taken care of as they should be, this leads to more headaches and grief for everyone, but sometimes an owner has to do what they have to do.... I never met anyone who said, I am going to buy an expensive Class Motorcoach so I can have problems and sure the maker........
If they have gone beyond reasonable, do what you gotta do.....
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 25878 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25878)
Well said Walt, I don't think the company has changed but I do think in building entry level coaches they have made some mistakes. But the Inspire buyer is also making a mistake if he thinks he is buying a Magna. What I don't understand is the driver calling the customer to tell them about his problem. Sounds to me like he was trying to cover his butt because of something he did wrong. When we had a coach delivered we asked to see the driver's report but he never called us. That was strange.
Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425.
Yahoo Message Number: 25880 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25880)
Bill G:
I am the Inspire owner and never thought I was buying a Magna. To even think this has me concerned that as a Magna owner you might believe that any lesser expensive model is expected to be inferior in every way and that everyone is dying to have what you have..
Secondly, it is apparently too important to you to flaunt that you have a Magna. I did not buy an Inspire because I could not afford to purchase, operate and maintain a Magna.....I bought an Inspire because that is all I needed. We are not ostentatious people, as I mentioned before...we have a very expensive custom car and the attention is gathers is embarrassing to us. We rarely drive it.
I doubt very much there could be a driver error since it was a faulty, blown turbo charger initially that the gasket probably blew due to the intense undistributed heat in the engine compartment . I know you have access to this story from the beginning and I must question your mechanical expertise to believe your statement. Please tell me how this could be driver error? The Allison transmission downshifted well before anticipated, the driver manually downshifted when temp's reached an unsafe level also and yet the coach coolant system was insufficient and the temp's continued to climb way beyojnd Caterpiller's expectations. We experienced the same overheating problem driving on a flat terrain in a 55 mile an hour zone doing less than the legal limit and with a new coach fully unloaded when the transmission failed due to overheating.
Was this driver error also and please tell me where we or a veteran retired truck driver, quite familiar with driving diesel trucks, could have gone wrong?
Your negative inferals demand a reply Bill G. who has a Magna.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25881 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25881)
Doris, Don't let Bill G. bother you. He told me I should buy a small cheap motorhome. I had him figured out before you made your post. I started RVing a number of years ago and one of the reasons was because there was no class differences but as you can see times have changed.
John F.
Yahoo Message Number: 25882 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25882)
And some people have a damn good reason for being uphappy. I feel for you Doris and second the motion that you lawyer up and file suit to force CC to take this lemon back and reimburse you all the costs plus compensation for the incredible hassle.
I had one National coach, a Sea Breeze, it was a piece of junk.
Just knowing that CC is now owned by National is all I need to dissuade me from owning another CC.
My '98 actually is a pretty good rig, few problems other than those crappy SeGi windows with the faulty (creeping) seals that CC and Segi refused to stand behind. I'm gonna have to spend a few thousand next year replacing more of them.
Anyway, I think you've given CC ample opportunity to make this right. Sue them.
Dan & Ann
Allure #30180
Yahoo Message Number: 25884 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25884)
John F:
Yes, I've seen him post before touting his un Magna-namous replies. Actually, spending the night in a Home Depot or friendly Wal Mart parking lot beats a smelly, busy, noisy truck rest stop any day in my books, especially when we are too tired to make it to our luxurious campground.
Doris
Blue Light Special Inspire 360
Yahoo Message Number: 25886 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25886)
John,
My wife and I are proud new owners of a 2004, Allure, 33. 98% of our camping, in the past has been dry camping. We picked up our ''new to us '' unit up in AZ on Labor day , and on the way home we did have hook ups at night , but at 113 degrees crossing Hover dam, we needed them. We just returned from our first major dry camping trip. Even with 2, 8D batteries, the RV uses a lot of 12 volt power, just in stand by mode. We had a 130 watt solar panel that I would set out in the sun, and in 10 days we only had to start the generator 2 times to charge up. We just made a purchase of a 8000 BTU catalytic heater from CW. It does not use power. We would heat up the diesel furnace/ water heater only when we needed hot water and it only took 2 to 3 minutes. I have ordered 2 more solar panels for the roof and will keep one on the ground to station in direct sun when we are docked under trees. For " Dry " camping I would like a propane water heater, but my wife likes long hot showers and when we are hooked up she can have them with the diesel furnace, and not the propane. I can live and work around the few things I do not care for. I am totally happy with our new toy, and I would do it again, I love the length, I like to stay at isolated camp grounds, and at 33 feet, it is perfect for us. Good luck on the Magna, and hope to see you in July at the rally.
John
Allure 04 31060
Yahoo Message Number: 25894 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25894)
Doris,
As a former truck driver you must also know that this is not your father's diesel. This coach as well as other SOBs take new driving skills. We also had our Magna over heat going out of California on our way home from the factory but we knew from our instrumentation to do something about it right a way. So we found a spot to pull over, let the engine and transmission cool down and then proceed in a lower gear at a slower speed until we could get somewhere and get the situation corrected. How many times have you said your temp went to 228, you should have stopped long before that. I can be just as critical of my coach as you can but I did not keep running it until everything melted. By the way, I had also been to some rallies where I knew this problem was developing thru out the industry so I had already asked someone what to do if the temp went up. Our coach has also been in the shop many times but CC and Cat took care of everything but we never burned it up, so to speak.
Lazy Days did all the repairs to my satisfaction but I never left the coach there without going back every other day. Telephones do not work on problems like this.
The one criticism I have of the Inspire is that it does not have enough instrumentation for such a complicated motor home and it attracts a lot of first time buyers who have no idea of what they are buying. They just turn on the key and go.
I could care less if you have a fancy car you never drive, We drive our Magna everywhere at 62 mph and get passed all the time by overheating Inspires who think these coaches were built to go any speed at any temperature. And by the way you never have said why the driver called you about the coach. You also have never said you have been to a rally or the factory to address the problems directly with CC. I know I am not being very kind but you were not kind to me either. I drive a Magna because it is a fine coach that meets my needs. If you ever come to a rally you will find that my Magna is the smallest and it only has 3 slides.
Bill G.
Yahoo Message Number: 25904 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25904)
Bill
Very Good! When something is wrong, you need to stop, an address the problem.
Also another former commercial driver.
Bo and Kathy Lee
2000 Magna, 2006 Jeep Unlimited
Yahoo Message Number: 25905 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25905)
I am sorry if my quotation of a call with Mr. Cooley was misunderstood. "some people just want to be unhappy" had nothing to do with management style. I was not well and we were discussing "positive attitude" looking on the "bright side" etc. What had happened was a then approved CC repair shop had really hacked my coach, and had even left it with crap in the toilet. You can imagine I just could not understand why a repair facility would do that. CC later took away their approval. I am very sorry that I used this statement in an attempt to cheer a troubled owner.
I have been dealing with CC since 1998. The fire issue is note worthy. I think we are all following the situation to see just how a unit catches on fire, so that we all can avoid the experience. So please do not take my input and reach conclusion regarding Mr. Cooley's management ability. You are way off base, check with me if you would really like all the details it went way beyond crap.
Yahoo Message Number: 25907 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25907)
I posted a reply, you are incorrect, the conversation had nothing to do with management, if my prior post does not get to you advise, but since I made the quote you can rest assured he was taking about a management attitude and in fact I probably misused the context of his statement, I was trying to make you feel better, sorry, but Mr. Cooley is not your guy, I am and my wife tells me I have a bad attitude all the time!!
Yahoo Message Number: 25909 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25909)
Actually, with my somewhat limited knowlege of the total situation, I don't blame CC on the window issue. I also have several that need replacing, but CC shouldn't be accountable for every window out there that 'creeps'. The onnus should and is on SeGi who made the defective windows and refuses to stand by their defective product.
However, they won't even give a break on the price, much less warranty beyond the original period. There was a time when the warranty was extended, but nether SeGi or CC advertised it very openly. It may have even been only CC extending it, I don't know for sure.
Yes, I am a little upset about the windows and our friend McMahon, who missled and deceived me but, I guess I allowed it to happen!
ddtuttle
(aka Billy Byte, trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443
Yahoo Message Number: 25910 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25910)
I find it impossible to know everything about all the systems in the coach so it would be very easy to deceive the customer. Other than being an RV tech how do we protect ourselves from dealers/repair services that aren't honest? We are at their mercy so many times when something needs fixing.
Fortunately we have been able to take our coach to a great independent repair shop but we won't always be close enough to get there.
Sue
'05, 42' Allure, quad slide, #31254
Yahoo Message Number: 25911 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25911)
There is a salesman at McMahon's with a business card that reads he is in charge of high line sales. In reality, he only works with them at shows and rallys and does not actually hold a position. McMahan allows this deception and even admits to it, yet............. is this honest? No, but, it's business and somehow we need to be aware of practices like this.
There seems to be a large number of honest dealers and service centers out there, lets keep up the job of telling people who they are, and try to patronize them.
ddtuttle
(aka Billy Byte, trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443
Yahoo Message Number: 25913 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25913)
You're right. I did buy it at Fort Benning and have really enjoyed it. Someone will get a very good coach at less than half the price of a new one.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 25914 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25914)
Doris, I feel so badly for you----the description of the things you would like to do if you could only get possession of your coach is really poignant , and I doubt I would have been as patient as you have been. It pains me to recommend legal action against a company that has been eminently fair to me, but enough is enough.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure ( still for sale )
Yahoo Message Number: 25916 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25916)
I sure am glad to see your clarification re Jim Cooley. Based on my past experience with him I couldn't believe he would make such a statement regarding a customer.
Walt Rothermel
Yahoo Message Number: 25917 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25917)
Bill G:
If you really read my posts you'd know the coach runs hot on the flat, by hot I mean once the engine warms up the engine temp's range is well over 210 and my husband always drives in the slow lane....he's a not in a hurry type of guy..
I realize you are a CC fan and it is difficult to believe that CC could have built a severely flawed vehicle. It happens.
The coach overheats to such an extent in a short period of time that we'd be pulled over to the side of the road every few miles or so and we certainly would have to find another way around grades.
For example, we picked the coach up yesterday from a month long repair shop stay and parked the coach for a few hours while we waited for rush hour traffic to be over before heading home. We live about 45 minutes from the dealer repair shop. By the time we headed for home, it was dark, cool and raining. Because of the deluge, wet roads, etc. our speeds never exceeded 50. We were amazed that under these circumstances the engine coolant temperature gauge ranged from 208 to 218. There was no hill climbing involved. We took pictures of the gauges in motion and also pulled over and took pictures encompassing the traffic conditions and weather. All in all, it took us 2 hours to make a 45 minute drive, late at night in cool weather because we were trying to keep the coach under 220.
The turbo blew at 220 and the veteran retired truck driver (hired by McMahon to deliver the coach to us) was frustrated by his attempts to get the coach cooled down. He was extremely upset when he called us because he had called the dealer first to apprise them of the coach's breakdown, it's overheating problem, the things he had to do along the way to bring the temperature down and when he mentioned manually downshifting.....the dealer became irate and blamed the driver for the breakdown due to his manually downshifting in an attempt to keep temp's from becoming excessive. The dealer argued that these new Allison transmissions are equipped with a computer that does that for you. He too, like you, accused the truck driver of not knowing how to operate a new diesel as you are implying. THE DEALER STATED THAT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS MANUAL SHIFTING TO BE USED. The dealer then proceeded to tell the driver that the expense and coordination of repairs was no longer their problem due to driver error. So, the driver had to call us since the dealer copped out on the issue.
Since the driver was on the hook and the coach was in limbo.....we called Allison and we called Caterpiller to clarify the manual shifting question and whether the driver should be responsible for a blown turbo because he manually downshifted, in lieu of allowing automatic downshifting. The delivery company also contacted them. The delivery company and the truck driver were exonerated.
Now, Bill, if both Allison and Caterpiller are saying there was no driver error, it is a flaw with the coach, why do you feel you know better about my particular Inspire?
If a driver is hired to deliver a coach to us because we are located out of state, why would he not contact us if there is a problem with that delivery, especially since no one else seemed to be indicating they'd follow thru on this?
I truly wanted to take the coach to the factory for service Bill, we even contacted CC about doing this and got the go ahead......but as I have repeated many times in previous posts, the coach has been in the repair shop constantly due to total breakdowns. The second meltdown was on a flat road driving in the slow truck lane at 35 mph in an attempt to keep the temperatures down.
Why did your two previous posts give me the impression that you believe we are ignorant drivers with archaic notions on how to drive the latest technology, especially since this is an entry level coach that is just too high tech for a novice?
Why did your original opinion state I appear to want a Magna? Is it because all I am asking is that the coach be reliable and only a Magna can be counted on for that?
Can you clarify where I gave you the impression we don't know how to drive a CC Inspire 360 with a C9 400/Allison? Do you think this is our first?
I know you are a happy camper with CC and I am happy for you. I truly wish I was too. I'd love to meet everyone at a Rally next year and, taking our new Inspire up to the factory was on the slate for our maiden voyage 3 months ago (this was discussed/planned via Jeff Howe), but the coach has had a failure to launch, it's not a know how failure....not even close.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25918 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25918)
Exactly. Selling a bunch of defective windows, standing behind them in only a very limited way, and telling everyone one else they have to pay full price to get these bad windows replaced speaks very badly of both CC and Segi.
At bare minimum, they should be offering to sell the replacement windows at cost--profiting off of people who have to replace defective windows that you sold them to begin with, speaks very badly of both companies IMO.
Yahoo Message Number: 25920 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25920)
Bo and Kathy:
That's very true about stopping to let things cool down, but once in a while there are problems that stopping won't help. If you read my story from the beginning, I think you'll understand.
It is a matter of 10 minutes or so before our coach reaches 'pull over and let it cool down temperatures' whether downshifting automatically or manually.
Please give me your opinion of what those pull over and let it cool down temperatures should be? That sure would help a big dummy like I believe I'm being thought of here..
I think it is pretty difficult for me to accept that the Caterpiller or Allison factory tech's are wrong about the excessive temperatures our coach operates as not being acceptable. Or that the initial turbo charger blow up, fire in the engine compartment, burnt brake lines, burnt air lines, melted wires and sensors are strictly from driver error. Or that the second major (transmission) breakdown due to melted wires and sensors was due to driver error. That was definitely not Caterpiller's opinion and it most certainly was not CC's opinion. CC took full responsibility and stated it is their problem, they've seen it many times before and have a (temporary) fix for it.
So, perhaps my paranoia comes into play here.....why suddenly are some nice folks trying to avert the blame for my coach being out of service and apparently not completely fixable for the past 3 months on driver error?
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25921 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25921)
Hi Doris,
If this coach ran up to 218 in flat, cool, and wet weather, there is no way you could keep the coach running cool in summer heat, and certainly not on any type of grades! There is something major wrong with this coach. I have been, like others following your "issues".
If this was my coach I would contact CC to come p/u this coach and they can figure out how to limp it back to Ore. If they refuse, it seems you would have no choice but to take the next step....
Brian
04 Allure
Yahoo Message Number: 25922 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25922)
We owned a window company and can tell you that the problems (with the coach windows) as detailed here, were the vendor's defect. We are 100% sure of this. They should never have problems. So... the vendor and CCI should (at the least) provide parts at cost. At the best...full replacement NO COST. Just our opinion.. The cost of materials at the Vendor level is very very low.
Russ and Jean
05 Intrigue
11883
Yahoo Message Number: 25923 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25923)
Thank you so much for this post. I am truly sorry for taking my frustrations out on you. this coach problem is the biggest nightmare of my life right now...over an above severe medical problems. My husband is so bummed, he sleeps almost all the time now, depressed our retirement plans are thwarted by lack of reliable 'transportation'.
This whole situation with the coach is a nightmare that won't quit. We've recently had the coach in for service for a month, again. A CC tech worked with the dealership mechanic and initially we were promised that everything would be fixed, no problem. After the first week or two....we stopped getting progress reports. It appeared CC's good intentions were hot air. Some of the warranty work is repeat tries.
We got a call last week to come pick the coach up and we asked what was done....was the 'chronic dead battery' problem diagnosed and fixed, etc. For a week the service manager would tell us, I don't know....I'll check. or the guy who worked on it isn't in today. We'd call the CC tech and get the same story. So finally we said, okay we will pick it up Friday and check it out then to see what's been done.
First call Friday morning is from the service manager, don't come get the coach.....wiring/battery problem's not fixed and I don't know what else. I'll call you when I find out why....at the end of the day we headed over there to pick up the coach regardless. and yes, it's not fixed. I asked for a copy of the invoice with tech notes so we could see what they did do.....paperwork is lost. They tried to hand me a printout that stated warranty work started 9/16 and competed 9/19. It took 45 minutes to square the dates away and another hour of pressing anyone and everyone who'd listen to help find the lost invoice. No luck. .
Bottom line I'm told is not following through on the promised repairs, not diagnosing and fixing the wiring/battery problem was a CC decision. I know they have poured a ton of money into warranty work so far.....and the fact that it has been in constantly for major repair items....raises a red flag with them.
I'd love to hear the problems you experienced, just because in some 'sick' way it relieves the pressure to be able to empathize with someone else.. Please email me privately so we don't hog up the posts with tales of terror.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25924 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25924)
I agree that good service and sales should be rewarded and this is the place to do it. McMahon sales told us they were voted number one for service by CC. I mentioned that here in a previous post and received a private email correcting me on the statistics. For what it is worth, I was told they actually came in last. I don't know that much about these ratings, but if it is true....making false boasts like this does a disservice to those who strive to be on top.
It would be nice to have the actual statistics posted here for the benefit of us all.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25925 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25925)
Walt:
That's why we bought a CC to retire to. I am sure it is a good company, I just have a bad coach. Sometimes when a company puts out such a top rated product, it is difficult to accept that a 'Monday' coach slipped by them.
I know they are and have been struggling with the EPA mandates and that has been creating problems for a few years now with diverting the extreme heat created by this out of the small engine compartments some of the models have. I would imagine this problem leaves very little room for negative variances in the cooling system and chamber.
In an ideal world, management would have noticed the coach's failure to launch and said 'hey, we are not proud of what's happened to you, what can we do now that it is apparent we have a serious problem?'....but this isn't an ideal world, it is a world based on economics, they've poured a ton of warranty dollars into it to try to get it launched and then quit...possibly short of success, possibly not. Who knows what a Monday coach will do.
In any event, CC and the dealer's not cooperating with us , not completing warranty work, not completely fixing the coach this past month and refusing to cough up the repair invoices does sort of escalate the lawsuit decision. Still have a chronic dead battery issue and still have an chronic, un maneuverable overheating issue.
(I was told not to use the word lemon, it raises a red flag.....maybe Monday coach would be more acceptable by CC..Ryan?)
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25926 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25926)
I was just thinking that your well taken point on the windows also applies to certain repairs and fixes that CC has done....like in my case and many others who have had melted wires and sensors due to poor routing location and distribution of the intense heat the catalytic converter generates in such a small space and since the coolant system is apparently inadequate to move that hot air out of there, CC has given us wraps and heat shields. I've been told this fix is not a permanent fix, the extreme heat will prematurely age them and will need redoing in a few years or so. It is also a costly repair. I wonder if CC will take care of this at cost at least or if we'll have to take care of it ourselves.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25927 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25927)
Doris, may I ask which floor plan Inspire you own? The engine compartment layout varies with daVinci, Genoa and Siena.
Jay
05 Inspire daVinci 51457
Yahoo Message Number: 25928 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25928)
Brian:
Thanks for the suggestion. We did talk and email CC about this in the beginning and told them we felt the problem was serious enough that it would not be safe for us to drive it up there, but wanted them to take it and make it right. This was after the first major breakdown and just before the second. ( By this time there were also cosmetic problems due to towing and being shuffled around repair bays.) The suggestion was ignored.
I have an email from CC implying these are good safe driving temperatures for my specific engine number, etc.. They even forwarded an email from their Caterpiller sales rep in which he attached a page from the manual showing the EMC (for my particular engine number so and so) set to fail safe temps of (approx.) 235 derate and shut down at 240. Nothing in the email from Cat states that it is safe or acceptable to drive the coach in these ranges and a subsequent reply to the Cat rep would not confirm he implied that either. It was just CCs way of diverting us from our point, that operating in the 210s or even high 220s, regardless of downshifting, weather, speed and cooling off stops is unacceptable.
One of he many reasons this subject of coolant/eng temps came up so that CC felt they had to defend the issue by any means available is that we were told by the dealer about the C9 400's EMC and its derate and shut down program, the engine will not allow itself to be damaged. We were also told that the coach was set to give an engine warning light at 220, derate and shut down at 223. After driving the coach for the first time from the first repair shop, we quickly experienced temps that exceeded 220, no engine light came on. We pulled over and called Caterpiller tech support since it was after hours for CC and they did confirm that was indeed a feature that can be set to on, they do not recommend operating the coach at the temps we were, but the engine fail safe is in the 230s. We were told as our engine ages it'll only get worse, especially since the coach was totally unloaded except for a half a tank of fuel. Once again, Cat stated it is not an engine problem, rather a manufacturers problem..
One of my questions to CC was if Cat suggests 220/223 as a drop dead pull over and cool down procedure, why are they telling me it is acceptable to operate at these temps. So, not only was there sneaky implications that its okay as I mentioned, but also we were told the gauge could be off by as much as 4%, get a silverleaf and then we'll talk. Since the coach was already in the shop for the 3rd time for repairs (actually been in the shop 4 times, consecutively now) I asked the mechanic about the silverleaf and he pointed out that 4% on our type of gauge only equates to 1 degree one way or the other. He checked the accuracy of the gauge for us, it was right on and we relayed that to CC.
CC did not try to solve the problem, they tried to 'defend' it.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25929 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25929)
Sure, I have the Siena. DaVinci's a nice layout.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25930 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25930)
Doris, Why does CAT say it's not their problem but the maufacturers ? If it's not an engine problem for sure then it has to be something Country Coach supplies like the radiator or the turbo etc.
John F.
Yahoo Message Number: 25931 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25931)
I meant to say CAC not turbo.
John F.
Yahoo Message Number: 25932 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25932)
Doris, If you've followed this person's occasional comments, you'll always find a referral that makes him seem superior to everyone else. Don't pay any attention to this kind of person's gloating attitude.
E. Williams Magna 4891
Yahoo Message Number: 25933 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25933)
I've been trying to stay out of this lengthy thread, but where did this tech go to school?
" I asked the mechanic about the silverleaf and he pointed out that 4% (error) on our type of gauge only equates to 1 degree one way or the other.. "
How can 220 degrees be off by only 1 degree if the error can be as high as 4%? I know our trans temp gauge is off by at least that much, silverleaf owners have reported more between standard gauges and their system.
My fear is that you are getting so many stories by so many unknowledgeable folks it just can't be pleasant . . . I would ONLY deal with the factory at this point. Unfortunately, I have been hosed by so many dealers with "Story d'jours" I just gave up and called the factory. They have been wonderful, and attentive.
Give up on this dealer, it's going to drive you into the hospital . . .
Lon
'06 Inspire 51800
Yahoo Message Number: 25934 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25934)
John F:
Cat is saying the coach operating at high temperatures is not their problem, nor is the resultant damage such as melted wires and sensors.
I just rechecked my records. It was explained to me that on our particular engine, the turbo charger has a gasket that can be faulty or can possibly be stressed by extreme heat. This was said to me on a conference call between CC and Cat shortly after the first breakdown. We had refused to take delivery, and the purpose of the call was to convince us this break down was a one in a million. It was just a faulty gasket. We discovered later that is not a true statement. It is not a common occurrence, but it happens and not just to Inspires.
We really wanted this coach, so we took delivery in the hope they were right about the one in a million shot.
CC and Cat fixed the turbo problem and we would have been happy campers right now if it had not been for the fact that we experienced another extreme melt down after driving it the first 120 miles from the Caterpiller repair shop. This is when it became apparent we had an uncontrollable overheating problem in the engine compartment.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25935 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25935)
John F:
I saw your correction on the CAC. I knew you didn't really mean turbo. More experienced people than me, mechanically, have said CC hasn't worked out the bugs yet on the CAC/heat problem.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25936 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25936)
You are right about getting misinformation and 4% could fall in this category. That's why you will notice that I have learned to double check as in this case by requiring the truck service center perform tests to check the accuracy of the gauge. They did and it was right on.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25942 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25942)
Doris and others,
ANY unit that is built today or in the last 15 years should be built to operate normally and stay within parameters without or in spite of the operator. Any truck, MH, car, etc etc, should be able to be operated and stay within normal parameters without operator assistance. Think about the quality of truck drivers today, most are not mechanics, they do not own the equipment, they get paid by the mile, it is not their truck, they drive it. Stating that a diesel requires special knowledge, attention in normal operating conditions ( normal as being operated on any US highway, within load limits, within typical temps, 0 to 110 degrees, etc, etc) is not accurate, and in my opinion an attempt to place blame where it does not belong. CC knew the coolong requirements and demands of the engine and power train when they installed it. If they installed in accordance with these paramaters it would not overheat. Second, how may miles of testing did they do? Does CC have any registered PE's (Professional Engineer) on their staff? What are their testing paramaters? I doubt they did any extensive testing. A cooling system has to be designed to operate in the entire temp range of this country with reserve, as the efficency of the system will fall off with age. To infer an operator has to do special things to keep it within operating parameters is weak at best. When was the last time you did special things to your car to keep it cool? CC did not do their job prior to releasing these units.
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 25945 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25945)
Doris
I have been following the thread on your problem and I have taken delivery on three new CC. I know the thrill and anticipation of it and fortunately never had a disappointment on the scale that you are experiencing. So I can understand your need to vent your frustration using this forum to help you through the troubling times. However, if you are leaning closer and closer to legal actions such as the lemon law, I really have to question the wisdom opening up to the extent that you have on the subject. We are all very much with you on this but we also can wait to the end rather than see put your legal position at risk.
I am not a lawyer but I do know that there are ever increasing laws that protect the consumer but there are also a ton of them that protect the business owner. For instance in my home state, if you stuck large decals of lemons on a vehicle and parked it in front of the dealership, the dealer could come after you for damages done to his business. You can paste the lemons but cannot bring the vehicle to within a prescribed distance of his place of business.
IMHO you might want to seek legal counsel on what if any effect posts to this forum might have if used against you in a legal proceeding. It is a owners group operating on a public media. Heavens knows that the internet is viewed as an excellent advertisement media. Most of the time comments such as 'tell us it was fixed' and 'artful dodgers' would roll of the back of manufactures and dealers as they know that it has little effect of their business as a whole but when a targeted individual case starts to develop things could change. It is next to impossible for a business to calculate the monetary effect of occasional negative advertisement but not so in a lemon law suit. Here the dealer can quite easily figure the cost factors to his business win or lose and proceed accordingly. There is a good chance that the dealer may elect to use any and all recorded statements to his best advantage and I for one would hate to see you lose before you even begin. Again I am not a lawyer but you might want to stick to only stating the factual events and for the time being refrain from expressing personal feelings about the intent of other parties involved. In a legal proceeding all parties enjoy the full protection of the law but interpreted by people whether it be a judge or a jury of peers.
Just some thoughst that came to my mind as I contemplated the horror of being in you position. I am a pretty solid CC fan but I can understand your feelings about the coach and CC at this point. I am also aware that the claim to making the world's finest motor home is just marketing jargon probably based on the fact that the offer the Provost conversion although I'm not sure. It certainly would be difficult to prove otherwise as there are hundreds of ways to measure the fineness of a motor home. Continue to keep is posted but.....
Don Seager
2004 Allure 31046
Yahoo Message Number: 25952 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25952)
Hmmm. I don't know about management change in attitude but regarding SeGi window creep problems CC is fully responsible. They are the ones that selected this supplier. What would you say if they purchased an underspec'd axle and it broke resulting in injury or death because their engineering group did not properly review the spec.
Don't you think it would be thier responsiblity? CC is the sole decision maker on the items that go into their coaches and thus carry the responsibility.
The SiGi window has been know to be a problem since 1996 (or perhaps earlier). CC knows this and has not addressed it. Interestingly, I have asked 3 different CC people at different times about the window problem and all 3 started out as though they did not know of the problem. Deceptive???
Of course it does not matter if it is CC or SeGi responsibility as CC is the major stockholder of SeGi. In either case it is CC responsibility but they hide behind the company named SeGi and never discuss the fact that they have the power to force a decision by their majority ownership position.
In the end it all effects CC profits and there are less than 20% of the owners with a problem that complain about it.
In the automotive world suppliers are changed is they have a failure rate of 1 part per million. In SeGi's case it is thousands per million and CC continues to use them, I suspect due to the financial arrangement.
With the exception of the SiGi issue I am a dyed in the wool CC supporter but their handling of the SeGi issue is atrocious.
Joey & Debi
Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 25955 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25955)
Mikee,
I believe your statements have a lot of truth. I could see that there would be problems with introducing a new model that has some minor problems. Lets not forget the CC Lexa. Did they do there research on that coach ? Did any part of the coach have a trouble free area ? When I inquired about a purchase of a Lexa, the news on the street was buyer beware.
Country Coach is a business in business for PROFIT. The only way to stay in business is the sale of new coaches...period. Build the coach... worry about the problems as they surface.
Someplace I read that the 2006 engines will not be completely through the system until Feb of 07. So why do we have overheating problems on 2007 models.
AL
00 affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 25957 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25957)
Mikee:
This does seem like common sense! Thanks. This overheating problem, poor disbursement of heat from the exhaust system (CAC) can be a very serious safety issue. Fortunately, it was a veteran truck driver handling the rig and who did not panic when we had the engine compartment fire. And, with the second melt down, we were on a highway that had a slow truck lane and shoulder. In a sense, we were very lucky.
Who investigates and monitors manufacturing engine operating/highway safety issues?
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25958 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25958)
Don:
Good point and, well thought out post. Thank You!!!
Doris
(http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2801132/grpspId=1705126185/msgId=25945/stime=1160922110/nc1=4025302/nc2=2/nc3=3)
Yahoo Message Number: 25960 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25960)
Doris
I would suggest that you contact the Federal Highway Safety Administration if you think that CC has delivered a defective/unsafe vehicle. The FHSA got involved in the tire issue when coaches were experiencing excessive blowouts.
I also agree with an earlier post that spilling your guts on this forum at a time when you are contemplating legal action maynot be the wisest approach.
Gene
Yahoo Message Number: 25963 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25963)
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/)
Yahoo Message Number: 25984 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25984)
Thanks for your concern. CC has been with this problem since the beginning. There isn't anything said here that they haven't heard directly from us before. We've done everything we know how to do to try to work it out with them amicably. Never having received such a 'Monday' vehicle before, we did not realize how badly a company would resist accepting the idea. Guess we are a little green in this area..
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25988 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25988)
I am getting the impression you have not had the coach to the factory. If not where do you live ? Is it feasible that you could drive it there, I know if it's an 8 day drive it would take you 20 but having said that you arrive in Junction City and park the coach at the front door and set up shop ( in other words don't leave til they do something)
John F.
Yahoo Message Number: 25990 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25990)
Both good and bad should be posted. I know we will get some people who just like to gripe with the bad ones, but if several people post complaints about the same repair shop then we have fair warning, IMHO. Internet makes it possible to share our experiences easily and cheaply. Can't think of a better resource!
Bob A.
2002 Allure 30760
Yahoo Message Number: 25994 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25994)
Doris,
I think you missed his point. What you and CC have discussed WAS between you and CC. WE don't need all the word by word exchanges.
I also agree that trial by forum of CC may not be in your ultimate best interests. There is always two sides to a story. We, by default will never hear CC's. (and no, I'm not taking sides)
We all support a positive solution for you. Knock down the doors to CC and get it done. If that takes legal action so be it.
Take a deep breath, relax (I know it's not easy) and think logically, calmly to get this situation handled.
Michael
01' Intrigue #11224
Yahoo Message Number: 25998 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25998)
the NTSB
Mikee
Who investigates and monitors manufacturing engine operating/highway safety issues?
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 25999 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/25999)
Largely they are 06 engines in an 07 coach. When the 07 engines hit it will be worse... Trust me. Alot of new junk on diesel engines for 07. The engine manufactures go by calendar year and vehicle makers use a schedule that is convienent for them on Jan 2 they can call anything produced the next year model
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 26007 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26007)
Walt - have you looked into www.motorhomesusa.com to sell your Allure? When I was looking to buy - it was a web page I looked at often to see what they had for sale. Most units are owned and also for sale by owner and are on the road, not sitting at a lot (at least I think that is the case). I called them and tried to deal on one unit and had a good experience - wound up finding one somewhere else but would have continued to deal with them if my purchase didn't work out. Just thought I would mention them, maybe they can help you move it.
Mark Peterson
03 Allure #30916
Yahoo Message Number: 26012 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26012)
Thanks, Mark. No, I haven't tried that one, just RVonline.com and RV registry. I just renewed the former and if I haven't sold it when this runs out, I'll try motorhomeusa.com.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811
Yahoo Message Number: 26013 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26013)
As a shopper I check these websites for coaches: rvtraderonline.com
rvtrader.com
rvsearch.com
rvonline.com
rvregistry.com and now this motorhomesusa.com
I'm always checking to see what has depreciated into my meager price range. Good luck.
Sandy
Yahoo Message Number: 26022 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26022)
Doris,
I have been in the service repair business since the mid 60's. The best way to get your all problems handled is to give the Service Manager $500.00 (Only if you are still on good terms with him) and tell him to have his best tech work on your coach. When all the repairs are completed have either the service manager and/or the technician test drive and take your coach for a long weekend (@200-500 miles). Also let them know in advance that if they fix everything and you don't have to bring the coach back for at least 60 days after the repairs are completed there is another $500.00 for them to split. Be emphatic and tell them to make sure the coach is safe, reliable and all the little bugs worked out. Only when they are 100% positive the coach is problem free, you will come in and go on a 20 mile road test with either one of them to make certain that is everything is satisfactory; only then you will take delivery of the coach.
A few dollars will go a long way in getting things handled ASAP. In the future continue to tip the service manager and the tech ($20.00 each) whenever you bring the coach back for routine service; you will be amazed how everything will be handled quickly and efficiently and all the manufacturer updates will be done "no charge" without you having to say anything. Most manufacturers issue bulletins about problem areas which are only to be fixed if the customer complains; let them replace these items before you have a problem. I always have my Porsche customers bring their cars back to the local franchise Porsche dealer before their warranty expires to have all the updates done. A $100 bill will get everything done "No Charge" and then some You would not think of leaving a restaurant without tipping the waiter, treat the service manager and technician the same way; This is the best way to insure you receive proper service.
You want the service manager to smile every time you walk thru the door; you need him to be your advocate who is sympathetic to all your needs and problems.
Paul Resnick
1998 Intrigue 40"
#10487
Paul Resnick
PAR Porsche Specialists
PAR Motorsports
PAR Seating Specialists
"Recaro" Warehouse Distributor
"Hans Device" Dealer/Distributor
"Cool Shirt" Warehouse Distributor
"ATL Fuel Cell" Warehouse Distributor
www.parcars.com (http://www.parcars.com/)
paul@... (paul@...)
Fax: 914-637-6078
Tel: 914-637-8800
Yahoo Message Number: 26025 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26025)
John F:
It hasn't been safe to drive that distance due to overheating, but taking it there was our original plan and CC knew we were coming. After the 2nd melt down, we expressed a desire for them to take it and make it right. That suggestion was ignored.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 26034 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26034)
Unfortunately Paul is 100% right, shouldn't be that way but it really is. I have been in the repair business since the early 60's as well.
Ron 98 Allure 30185
Note what Paul drives as well ;-)
Yahoo Message Number: 26035 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26035)
does the term "whore" RING A BELL?
Yahoo Message Number: 26040 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26040)
Michael ...
Very well said. This diaglog, although very well stated, has gone on way too long. The problems may very well be there with CC and this owner (and I am concerned that the owner have them rightfully resolved) but, nothing further is accomplished by repeatedly discussiing this on our Forum.
Don
2001 Intrigue #11209
Yahoo Message Number: 26041 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26041)
I agree. You will probably have noticed that many of our regular constructive contributors have been conspicuously absent in recent weeks, no doubt tired of this topic, and that means new owners and lurkers are not getting their 'moneys worth' out of this forum.
David
Yahoo Message Number: 26046 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26046)
In the spirit of believing that someone else may benefit from my stupidity I offer the following lesson-learned. Having returned to the house this past Sunday afternoon after being at the Balloon Fiesta last week I neglected to do the following: 1) turn off the electric water heater (should have done that when I prepared the coach for road travel); 2) plug in the coach when I got home (I was tired after a week of getting up at 0400 to get ready for the day's events); and 3) turning off the house batteries when I got home (ditto number 2).
So, being a balloon pilot who follows a check list before each flight, I should have a check list for my coach and the religiously follow it no matter what my mental state. I'll start work on that today before we go out in the coach again.
Now I'm just hoping that I haven't severely (to the point of damage) drained my house batteries. After plugging in this morning (believe it or not I woke up this morning and it finally dawned on me that I had left the water heater on electric - luckily I did turn off the refrigerator before departing the park) and waiting the required two minutes, the battery indicator is on red. We'll see what happens over the next day or so.
Harry
'06 Inspire 51933
Yahoo Message Number: 26048 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26048)
Lets hear good news. Like good places to go. Trips with no problems. "Remember RVing is a sport"
Enough sniveling in public.
John Drebick 06 Affinity 6550
Yahoo Message Number: 26051 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26051)
You should consider charging the batteries by themselves. Bring them up to at least 11.50 before you engage the house charger. The house charger is extremely stressed when the batteries are dead. You risk damage of your inverter-charger. Ask me I learned the hard way, cooked a circuit board in the inverter-charger, $500.00 later.
AL
00 affinity #5851
Yahoo Message Number: 26054 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26054)
Sometimes spreading a little cash around gets the job done.
Paul
Yahoo Message Number: 26056 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26056)
Thanx, AL, for your comment. The interior lights were all at full strength so I don't think I fully discharged the batteries. I just went out to check and my battery status light is now green, so I am assuming that all is well again. I need to get to work on that check list though!
Harry
'06 Inspire 51933
Yahoo Message Number: 26064 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26064)
IT STILL AMAZES ME HOW MANY PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IN AN HONEST DAY'S WORK FOR AN HONEST DAY'S PAY. NEXT, WE WILL NEED TO TIP THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE PERSONNEL OR THE ATTORNEY'S PARALEGAL. WHERE DOES IT STOP?
Yahoo Message Number: 26067 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26067)
Michael,
I agree with you but Doris and her husband are getting sick over this and life is too short, if a few dollars will get her and her husband on the road, it is money well spent. It will be a whole lot less than her attorney will charge her.
Paul
Yahoo Message Number: 26069 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26069)
Just hand over $500 to everyone that may impede getting the job right for the right reasons. Save your money and buy a new coach.
cvb
Yahoo Message Number: 26074 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26074)
Chuck
Doris just bought a new coach and this is the situation she is in. This is only my suggestion to help- her to get out of this mess; right now she has nothing but grief, a none functioning motorhome and a depressed husband.
Paul/PAR
Paul Resnick
PAR Porsche Specialists
PAR Motorsports
PAR Seating Specialists
"Recaro" Warehouse Distributor
"Hans Device" Dealer/Distributor
"Cool Shirt" Warehouse Distributor
"ATL Fuel Cell" Warehouse Distributor
www.parcars.com (http://www.parcars.com/)
paul@... (paul@...)
Fax: 914-637-6078
Tel: 914-637-8800
Yahoo Message Number: 26075 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26075)
Sounds like a great idea, spend 200k + for a new coach that will not run down the road from its inception, then have to pay somebody off to fix a coach that is under full warranty and has never been right from the start. Something is really wrong with this picture.
Brian
04 Allure.
Yahoo Message Number: 26079 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26079)
Hate to say it "But that is the wave of the new American Way-screw you, I am looking out for my self". When I have to tip someone $500 to get work done on a coach that I have paid big bucks for, then I am getting out of rv'ing.
On the post about wanting to hear about good things, here goes. Since my last break down (oil pressure sending unit) in 2001, we have traveled well over 40,000 miles with out any problems. We have been to the left coast, right coast and bottom coast many times during those yaers and have enjoyed our '98 Allure imensely. After reading posts here and on other forums, we have no desire to trade our coach in and I feel that we have one of the best coaches that CC has put on the road. Looking forward to many more miles in our CC Allure.
Egon
'99 Allure #30321
'02 Tahoe Z71
Yahoo Message Number: 26090 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26090)
Egon your making a lot of sense to me. That is why we are still in our 98. One correction though this isn't the "New American Way" just a rehash ;-) Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 26092 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26092)
Brian, sounds like the world of RV's to me ;-)
That's why we have what we have.
Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 26111 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26111)
Harry:
I don't know how they wired those Inspires, but in my 02 Allure, the electric HWH is powered only by shore power, not the inverter and the house battery.
None-the-less your checklist is still a good idea.
RFA
2002 Allure 30760
Yahoo Message Number: 26116 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26116)
Doris has a situation involving a new coach. It appears to be largely engineering issues, throwing money at Service Writers and Technicians wont correct design problems.
As to throwing money at folks to get em to do their job...... yes it works, but it is pretty bad when someone has to be bribed to do their job....
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 26136 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26136)
I really don't know how effective paying a bribe would be to an authorized CC service shop when in order to get paid they have to have authorization from CC for the warranty work.
I put my coach in for numerous warranty items including a chronic dead battery problem over a month ago and it came out with the same problems...the service manager stating the repairs were overseen by a CC rep and they are not responsible for what wasn't done. It's CC's doing. I asked for an invoice with tech notes to see what they did do or at least are billing CC for, but it's not forthcoming.
We received a call from the rep in the beginning stating that he was going to personally oversee the job and everything on the list, including the towing/repair damage would be taken care of.
I am guessing that CC has poured a ton of money into previous massive repairs and are done for whatever reasons.
So, my question to the forum is how can I get this work done and get CC to pay for it?.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 26138 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26138)
Doris,
I hate to be so blunt, but you need to stop whining and hire an attorney......
Mikee
Yahoo Message Number: 26142 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26142)
Doris, please do not take all the people in this group to seriously. My advance is simple. Go to the point of your acceptance of the coach. I am thinking that acceptance as never occurred as you have not benefited from the contract. I would review that angle with an Attorney, not the lemon laws, and sue the Dealer not CC for non-performance under the contract. In other words they have not done what they said they would do, and just forget the rest. Now you need an Attorney, and there is no going back once you start, there is only a result.
Sorry but that is the best I have to suggest. An Attorney is probably your best bet now.
Yahoo Message Number: 26144 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26144)
My husband perked up at this advice. Thanks!
Doris(http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2801132/grpspId=1705126185/msgId=26142/stime=1161286347/nc1=4025369/nc2=2/nc3=3)
Yahoo Message Number: 26145 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26145)
Doris,
The word TIP stands for "To Insure Proper Service". It is obvious the Service Manager is passing the buck and passing the responsibility of your problems onto CC. You need an advocate who is going to fight for you, you can get an attorney at $250.00 - $500.00 per hour who will spend months or years in court trying to resolve your problem coach or you can give someone a tip to get this situation handled properly and efficiently. The ball is in your court, you need to stop crying in your beer and take some type of positive action to get this situation resolved.
Paul
Yahoo Message Number: 26146 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26146)
OR as Don Corlione says...."Make them an offer they can't refuse" ???
Tom Fisher
BigD
Yahoo Message Number: 26152 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26152)
Tom,
My Brooklyn customers would have already fitted the service manager and the CC tech with the proper size cement shoes. In New York its three strikes and you're out.
Paul
Yahoo Message Number: 26159 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26159)
Doris,
Back to my original question, Why do you keep driving this coach? there is something wrong, these coaches run cooler at 35 then they do at 60. You don't seem to understand the system so I'm done.
Bill G. Coach # 6425, by the way what is your number, enough said GOODBUY and GOOD LUCK.
Yahoo Message Number: 26169 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26169)
Bill G:
I don't drive it. As I said before.....It's not safe. I did not buy a CC to only drive it at 35 mph.....that' can be unsafe....especially on freeways where the minimum speed limit is 55. You must be speed reading to assume we drive at excessive speeds, it overheats in the rain, no traffic, flat terrain, under 60 degrees and at less than the legal speed limit.
Give up.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 26171 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26171)
I think "Doris" is having fun at the expense of well meaning CC posters, what do you think? ;-) Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 26172 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26172)
I think .... "Enough is Enough" of this particularly posting. Give it up and let's move on.
Yahoo Message Number: 26173 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26173)
Doris this is important. When you signed off and took the coach was there any written material regarding repairs. If there was then I am back to my original suggestions, "acceptance" the coach in fact was really never delivered, and much different issue that the Lemon law stuff.
Yahoo Message Number: 26174 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26174)
Tom you are kidding? Let's hope you are, my beer has gone warm if you are serious.
Yahoo Message Number: 26175 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26175)
I agree. Everybody on this board knows about Doris' coach. The time has come for Doris to do something, anything.
John F.
Yahoo Message Number: 26178 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26178)
Okay Guys and Gals,
This discussion about Doris's coach should end. We are not getting anywhere with it. Some of the comments are going beyond the useful scope of this forum.
Please remember when you contribute to the forum on any topic, please ask yourself the following question -- "Are my comments providing any USEFUL information to the other owners, or asking for information that will be USEFUL to me?" If they are not, keep those comments and/or questions to yourself, or communicate them outside of this forum.
Herb Strandberg
Forum Moderator
Yahoo Message Number: 26181 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26181)
Hi Herb, Thanks for stepping in and hopefully getting everyone back on the right track.
David
Yahoo Message Number: 26194 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26194)
Ron and All:
I can't imagine anyone would believe what I experienced and am still experiencing is fun and relaying it here is making me gleeful. Perhaps it is a relief to not keep it bottle up, that I am guilty of.
I do respect that many have had nothing but good experiences with their CC and, therefore, respect the manufacturer. I'm also painfully aware that RVing is all about fun, perhaps that's why we are so upset, our coaches failure to launch hasn't bee fun......but you are right.......my story is just putting a damper on things.
Some people are interested in knowing our unusual, unhappy story from the beginning and would like to know how this ends. If you are not one of them.....you've had the option of not reading the posts.
I have suggested to the moderator that any and all of my posts be deleted rather than create animosity.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 26202 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26202)
Doris, I emphasize with your situation. This forum isn't just about the good. The bad and ugly regarding the coach and manufactorer is also useful for many of us. Most of us are lucky we've had to deal with your sort of issue(s). I just hope for you that CC steps up to the plate and handles your problems the only way they should be handled: Fix it, no matter what it takes.
Your posts, I read with interest. Other (ala "how to keep the curtains hanging straight"), well I'm not to interested in, and I'll skip them.
But I wouldn't want anybody to deny those kind of postings. Neither should yours.
Just a suggestion/thought from an engineer (not an automotive one though): Couldn't you have someone remove/bypass the catalytic converter and let 70% or more of the generated heat escape out of the exhaust system? That way, you might be able to get the coach to the factory without the overheating conditions, and once in Junction City, CC may be more inclined to do the right thing.
Yahoo Message Number: 26204 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26204)
I'm a Fleetwood Discovery owner monitoring your chatter, having been duly impressed with a recent tour of the CC factory in Oregon. A week or so ago, the Discovery Owners Association made their Forum restricted to paid members only, so nobody else can see the issues addressed within or search for them on the web like they could before. This is a group sponsored by Fleetwood. See a connection?
Revel in your openness, and encourage bringing these issues to light. If CC listens and improves things, everybody wins. Hiding problems is a lose-lose proposition.
Interesting about the 2003/2004 problem theory. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Our '04 seems to have way more silly issues than other years.
Bill in San Diego
Yahoo Message Number: 26206 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26206)
If enough Fleetwood Discovery owners were having major problems and wanted an open forum, they could start their own Yahoo group. Does Fleetwood really think they can contain RV owners from freely discussing their problems and keep them hidden? It just won't happen with having the internet and instant communications.
It is sad that there are some rotten coaches out there, we had one with our SOB. Thank goodness our present Allure is doing fine. We have had none of the major issues that have been discussed lately. Our biggest issue was a failing inverter which we replaced yesterday and all is doing fine.
We too were impressed with CC's tour, that is why we got one. We knew there could be troubles, but thank goodness we got a good one. Buying an RV is a crap shoot, you never know what you are going to get.
My sympathy to those with major problems.....been there/done that.
Sue
05, 42' CC Allure quad slide #31254
Yahoo Message Number: 26211 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26211)
i might be wrong but i sometimes think lots of the problems are self made a coach has lots of systems and i believe that the electrornic items plus not knowning the operationcan persent a problem if you think we have a problem with our cc you should check with monaco or fleetwood ido agree wwith you that we pay a lot for our coaches and cc should be better if not the least after all they are cc but please guys dont put down the techs this guys are good and they will repair the unit if you bring it to them in fact they will go beyound this techs are great in fact they chargeit to warranty flocks dont cut the cc factory
the techs are good deal deal with your used car lot dealer that sold you the unit infact take a bat and dont be afrid to use it
chuck
2004 magna bob limiteded edtion
Yahoo Message Number: 26214 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26214)
Your talking about freedom of speech or The First Amendment, a prime directive of this country's great founders. It is unfortunate that there are those, such as you mentioned who have forgotten about this important freedom. I agree knowledge about the good, bad and ugly is necessary and should not be suppressed.
Doris
2006 Un Inspire 360 Siena
Yahoo Message Number: 26215 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26215)
I thought about bypassing the catalytic converter but recently read a string on that issue, for similar reasons, and it was pointed out it was illegal and subject to a very large fine in the event a spot inspection occurred.
Although my emphasis has been mainly on the main problem we are having with overheating, there are other problems as well I've not brought up except with CC and those have also gone unfixed .
I appreciate any and all constructive suggestions in an attempt to make this coach safe and operable. Perhaps these suggestions will work not only for us, but also for others who may find this string and are seeking similar solutions.
I know CC and dealers participate here and I agree with all of you that these suggested fixes may also trickle back to them and do us all some good.
Doris
Yahoo Message Number: 26224 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26224)
Herb
Is Doris really a CC owner, she never uses her coach number. I though that was a requirement.
Yahoo Message Number: 26228 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26228)
Hi:
You asked if I really have a CC? If you researched my previous posts this question was posed before. I explained then that my coach, along with the box containing all the files, CC provided for new customers, the original purchase order, etc. were in the coach and the coach had been in for repairs constantly since day one and I did not have the number memorized. When I purchased the coach all the paper work was placed in the coach, a truck driver hired by the dealer was delivering the coach to us when the coach had a major fired in the engine compartment, etc.
I have the paperwork now and know my coach number, but a better way to clarify I really do own a CC would be to call Country Coach. Just mention the name Doris and you'll hear a moan of acknowledgement.
Better yet, perhaps CC or the dealers rep's that monitor and post here will do the right thing and answer this email for Herb.
Doris
2006 Broken Inspire 360 Siena
Yahoo Message Number: 26248 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26248)
No Bill, Doris isn't a CC owner. At the moment she's a CC hostage.
Most of us hope she'll be released soon. With a working coach.
Henk Bots, 2000 Magna #5824 (or is it 5428?)
Yahoo Message Number: 26253 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26253)
Drop this line of messages - no attempt to surpress - just getting old.
Yahoo Message Number: 26270 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26270)
Oh Darn! Herb, I was just enjoying all the poor suggestions and most enjoyable were some of the ridiculous spelling errors.
E. Williams Magna 4891
Commander LTD toad
Yahoo Message Number: 26027 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/26027)
Michael cc#11224,
My # is 11272 close to yours. I agree with you about Doris taking action, but I know her frustration. My coach is the same year as yours and I have over $3,000.00 of my own money in it along with major major amounts of time and aggravation. Even a trip to the factory for electrolysis we were treated pretty poorly. Repaint, rework and additional huge fees that my dealer was able to get knocked down some. The latest being a new charge air cooler and radiator at 55,000 miles. I feel sorry for her, I know how it feels to have CC stand at arms length. After the first 6 months I should have taken steps to return the coach. Thanks to Holland M/C in Holland Mi., for 50,000 miles most of our trips started and ended in Holland. They have done a lot for me.
Gene
01 Intrigue #11272
Gene Holcomb
260.343.0833 home
260.433.4058 cell
gene. holcomb@...