Country Coach Owners Forum

Country Coach Restoration, Repair & Parts Forums => Country Coach Archive => Topic started by: Mike Cebula on March 12, 2007, 03:29:09 pm

Title: ULSD - Cummins response
Post by: Mike Cebula on March 12, 2007, 03:29:09 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 29657 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/29657)
The following is an email response I just received from Cummins when I quizzed them about gaskets, seals, etc. for my coach.

Mike Cebula
'95 Magna #5266

Summary: ULSD

Solution:

Thanks for your Email message. You have contacted Cummins, Inc. at our Customer Assistance Center located in Columbus, Indiana. This is our worldwide headquarters and has been our home since Clessie Cummins founded the company February 3, 1919.
There are many rumors circulating about the effects of sulfur being in diesel fuel or sulfur being taken out of diesel fuel. Diesel fuel without sulfur is just as good, in all respects except one, when compared with today's fuels with sulfur.
Diesel fuel, in the United States, now must meet a lubricity standard.
The producers adjust the lubricity before they distribute the fuel. No further additives are needed to ensure proper fuel system lubrication.
The only negative effect of taking sulfur out of fuel is that the fuel becomes more expensive, somewhat negating the inherent cost advantage of running diesel engines when compared to other fuels. It has to be removed using specialized equipment and chemical processes that add to the expense of producing the fuel.
We have seen a very few instances where the reduced aromatic content of the fuel has resulted in slight leaks from fuel systems. This is not expected to be an issue with many engines.
Basically the change to new fuel should be pretty easy for folks with the engines built prior to 2007 and for customers with the engines built in 2007 it will be necessary, for the short time it takes fuel stations to consume the remainder of the old fuel (maybe a month or two), to be certain they are not fueling with the older fuel.
There is an effect on diesel engines from the use of low or no sulfur fuel which we expect to be positive. The blowby gasses that normally pass through the engine crankcase will contain less or none of the chemically reactive sulfur and its compounds. This will tend to keep the engine oil cleaner during operation and allow important engine components like bushings, bearings and piston rings to live longer.

Diesel fuels containing sulfur or no sulfur each have the same specific heat, about 20,000 BTUs per pound. For that reason they give the same amounts of work for the same amount of fuel. That means the fuel economy per gallon will not be affected.
Over the years we have seen fuel economy decrease, somewhat, as diesel engine designs have been modified to meet the lower NOX limits imposed by government. This has been totally unrelated to sulfur in the fuel.

With lower sulfur fuels it is possible that some exhaust after treatment devices (catalytic converters) may be used to better effect, making it possible to further decrease harmful exhaust emissions.
If you use diesel fuel that does not meet the new federal low sulfur requirements that are going into effect for 2007, in a 2007 vehicle that requires the new fuel, it will produce particulate matter that will cause rapid plugging of the exhaust particulate trap. We don't anticipate producing engines for such vehicles until 2007.

We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. We occasionally misunderstand a question. If our answer to your communication looks like we have misunderstood your e-mail please reply with further inquiry.
To locate the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider use option #2 on our toll free customer assistance line
1-800-DIESELS (343-7357) or for computer assistance in locating a
Service Provider, use Cummins Service Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:

http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocator/jsp/controller.jsp?action=showworldmap (http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocator/jsp/controller.jsp?action=showworldmap)
Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at option #4 on 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357).
Cummins Email (via webpage):

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=...iewId=33&menuIndex=7 (http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=...iewId=33&menuIndex=7)
Customer Assistance Center
Cummins, Inc.

Columbus, Indiana, USA
Title: Re: ULSD - Cummins response
Post by: Ray G_01 on March 16, 2007, 04:08:31 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 29742 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/29742)
For reference, this is the exact, word for word, that I received two months ago on the same question. A follow up to them got zero response....good luck.

Ray and Rue
05 Allure 31176

Space 3-28 at Jekyll, Island

Quote from: Mike Cebula
The following is an email response I just received from Cummins

when I

Quote
quizzed them about gaskets, seals, etc. for my coach.

Mike Cebula
'95 Magna #5266

Summary: ULSD

Solution:

Thanks for your Email message. You have contacted Cummins, Inc. at

our

Quote
Customer Assistance Center located in Columbus, Indiana. This is our > worldwide headquarters and has been our home since Clessie Cummins > founded the company February 3, 1919.
> There are many rumors circulating about the effects of sulfur being

in

Quote
diesel fuel or sulfur being taken out of diesel fuel. Diesel fuel > without sulfur is just as good, in all respects except one, when > compared with today's fuels with sulfur.

Diesel fuel, in the United States, now must meet a lubricity

standard.

Quote
The producers adjust the lubricity before they distribute the fuel.

No

Quote
further additives are needed to ensure proper fuel system

lubrication.

Quote
>

The only negative effect of taking sulfur out of fuel is that the

fuel

Quote
becomes more expensive, somewhat negating the inherent cost

advantage

Quote
of running diesel engines when compared to other fuels. It has to be > removed using specialized equipment and chemical processes that add

to

Quote
the expense of producing the fuel.
> We have seen a very few instances where the reduced aromatic content > of the fuel has resulted in slight leaks from fuel systems. This is > not expected to be an issue with many engines.

Basically the change to new fuel should be pretty easy for folks

with

Quote
the engines built prior to 2007 and for customers with the engines > built in 2007 it will be necessary, for the short time it takes fuel > stations to consume the remainder of the old fuel (maybe a month or > two), to be certain they are not fueling with the older fuel.

There is an effect on diesel engines from the use of low or no

sulfur

Quote
fuel which we expect to be positive. The blowby gasses that normally > pass through the engine crankcase will contain less or none of the > chemically reactive sulfur and its compounds. This will tend to keep > the engine oil cleaner during operation and allow important engine > components like bushings, bearings and piston rings to live longer.

Diesel fuels containing sulfur or no sulfur each have the same > specific heat, about 20,000 BTUs per pound. For that reason they

give

Quote
the same amounts of work for the same amount of fuel. That means the > fuel economy per gallon will not be affected.

Over the years we have seen fuel economy decrease, somewhat, as

diesel

Quote
engine designs have been modified to meet the lower NOX limits

imposed

Quote
by government. This has been totally unrelated to sulfur in the

fuel.

Quote
>

With lower sulfur fuels it is possible that some exhaust after > treatment devices (catalytic converters) may be used to better

effect,

Quote
making it possible to further decrease harmful exhaust emissions.
> If you use diesel fuel that does not meet the new federal low sulfur > requirements that are going into effect for 2007, in a 2007 vehicle > that requires the new fuel, it will produce particulate matter that > will cause rapid plugging of the exhaust particulate trap. We don't > anticipate producing engines for such vehicles until 2007.
> We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. We occasionally > misunderstand a question. If our answer to your communication looks > like we have misunderstood your e-mail please reply with further

inquiry.

Quote
>

To locate the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor

Service

Quote
Provider use option #2 on our toll free customer assistance line > 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357) or for computer assistance in locating a > Service Provider, use Cummins Service Locator, which can be found on > Cummins website:
>http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocator/jsp/controller.jsp? (http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocator/jsp/controller.jsp?)
action=showworldmap

Quote
>

Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your > computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent > attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at > option #4 on 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357).
Cummins Email (via webpage):
>http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp? (http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?)
siteId=1&langId=...iewId=33&menuIndex=7
Title: Re: ULSD - Cummins response
Post by: Mike Cebula on March 16, 2007, 09:41:20 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 29754 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/29754)
I went back to them on 7/12. No response so far either.

Mike

ragarue wrote:
Title: Re: ULSD - New Engines
Post by: David & Karen on March 18, 2007, 10:23:39 am
Yahoo Message Number: 29782 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/29782)
Good morning everyone,

I am curious about the introduction of the 'new' 2007 engines for ULSD. Has CC started installing these yet or are they still working off 'old' inventory?

David, Allure 31383

(http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2801132/grpspId=1705126185/msgId=29657/stime=1173727750/nc1=4438963/nc2=4464098/nc3=4430620)