Yahoo Message Number: 29875 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/29875)
To all
Read the applicable posts regarding the fuel gauge reading high and am guessing the sending unit has gone south for the summer. Past postings indicate that the sending unit is easily accessable for inspection. Before I jack the coach up to get underneath, I'm curious about the location.
Is there an access panel somewhere or do you have to come up from underneath the coach to get at the top of the fuel tank? Also, I'm guessing that it's on the driver side.
Thanks in advance
Ron Gates
2000 Intrigue 10936
Yahoo Message Number: 29883 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/29883)
Ron,
You won't need to jack the coach up. Just reach over the propane tank and over the frame where the tank is mounted. You will see about a 5 inch panel with some wires attached. I think there are three screws to remove. It really comes out very quickly, hardest part is leaning againt the propane tank while doing the removal. I believe it took me about half an hour to replace mine on a 2000 Intrigue. CC will ship the sender unit to you, when I purchased I believe it was around $35 dollars but not sure of that. Mine was also reading near max all the time, the replacement of the sender unit fixed that problem.
Ray
2000 Intrigue 11040
Yahoo Message Number: 30063 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30063)
Can anyone tell me about "LOW SULFUR OR ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL"
Thanks
Charlie & Lorraine Zecman
2002 Magna # 6162
Florida
Yahoo Message Number: 30080 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30080)
First of March I had Cummins replace my lift pump because of a fuel leak. Leak was evidently caused by the ULS diesel fuel. My unit is a '99 Allure with the Cummins 330 ISC. Cost was about $650 with the biggest cost going to labor. Just made a 2200+ miles run to Florida and back with no fuel leak at the new pump.
Egon
Yahoo Message Number: 30084 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30084)
What do you want to know about it?
ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) is federally mandated for all engines manufactured after January 1, 2007. Since it is 'allegedly' fine in older engines, you probably will not be able to find any of the old 'Low Sulfur' fuel. I think the Sulfur limit on USLD is 50 ppm and the old stuff may be somewhere around 500 ppm.
The actual effects on older engines is yet to be determined, although there have been stories of CC owners developing fuel leaks because the ULSD seems to have eaten the gasket in their fuel pumps.
The new engines require a new design, and it will probably take a few years to work all the bugs out of them.
Not a great time to buy a diesel, old or new...
John 04 Inspire 51078
Yahoo Message Number: 30097 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30097)
Egon,
If your assumption is correct and the fuel (lift) pump failed because of the low sulfur content it would make sense that your fuel injection pump will be the next fuel item to fail because of the lack of sulfur in the fuel. I'm still using the old type diesel fuel; please let us know what the next fuel component that fails.
Paul Resnick
1998 Intrique 10487
Yahoo Message Number: 30099 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30099)
Hmmmm-- this is the first that I have heard about the injector pump leaking. Everybody that has talked about this and has had leakage, it was always the lift pump. In talking with the techs at Cummins in Houston I believe that it is only the lift pump.
If the leaking is going to go to the injector pump, then we need to go to Cummins in mass for some type of help or go to a class action suit.
I did not mind too much to pay the $650 for the lift pump, but if I am going to have to shell out for an injector pump also, I will not be a happy camper.
Egon
'99 Allure #30321 with new lift pump and no leaks so far, 2500 miles since replacement.
Yahoo Message Number: 30101 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30101)
Egon:
I had the same reaction to Paul's comment. Cummins has turned circumspect on the subject. First they put out an Early Warning Notice about two years ago that said ULSD could cause the lift pump seal to leak because the lower sulfer content caused the seal to shrink. It did not say anything about the injection pump and in all the posts on this forum I can not recall anyone attributing injection pump failure to ULSD.
Lift pump failure was discussed at length in the Cummins seminar at JI. Despite the Early Warning Notice, the presenter, Tim Kelly, had a difficult time blaming ULSD for lift pump failure. He said there had been relatively few and in most cases only fuel seepage had resulted. Seemed like Cummins was backing away from the Early Warning Notice.
Did you discuss just changing the seal when you had yours replaced? Other than the obvious increase in sales, I don't understand why the entire pump has to be replaced because a $6 seal is leaking. Just my HO.
I guess if others are experiencing failures beyond the lift pump I/we would like to hear about it.
Bob Amory
2002 Allure 30760, 350 ISC
Yahoo Message Number: 30103 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30103)
Its not Cummins fault the Fed. Govt has dictated demands again that places the American owners of Diesel RV's in the breach. You forget the last go around which forced owners of 7.3 liter powered vehicles to bite the bullet. The Oil companies are supposed to be adding lubricants to supplement the fuel to prevent engine block component deterioration, but have the chemists involved on all sides taken into account the shrinkage of gaskets? Whose to blame, Cummins, CAT, Detroit, etc, etc. I would like to hear from those who were involved in developing this new fuel and the standards they set forth for an answer. If a lift pump or fuel pump supplies insufficient fuel under inadequate pressure, then the injection pump will fail, this we know. So it behooves us to keep our eyes open, just as we should beware of any other symptoms that might cause other systems to fail and thus injure our pocket books..
TWI 2004 Intrigue, 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 30119 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30119)
Read archives of CatRV club on Yahoo. Cummins lift pump failures have been well covered. If you can access pump & can get the correct gaskets, repair may be in order rather than replacement.
My Cat C9 is making over 6.3 M/G with 1% 10W30 oil in fuel. 5.3 M/G without oil. Maybe the added oil will save injectors & pump?
"Egon Schlottmann,
"Hmmmm-- this is the first that I have heard about the injector pump "leaking. Everybody that has talked about this and has had leakage, it "was always the lift pump. In talking with the techs at Cummins in "Houston I believe that it is only the lift pump.
Yahoo Message Number: 30128 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30128)
It is logical that the fuel injector pump will at the very least be under stress using ULS fuel? All injector pumps rely to some degree on the sulfur in the fuel for lubrication. Some rely totally on the fuel for lubrication.
In addition to the Cummins 8.3 in our Intrigue we also have a Dodge with a 5.9 Cummins. True, a smaller engine but virtually the same design except for size. On my Dodge the lift pump failed after about 20,000 miles of ULS fuel. I replaced it and within 15,000 miles the injector pump failed. On the Dodge the injector pump depends totally on the fuel for lubrication. The lift pump was $500.00 and the injector pump was $3,600.00.
Will the same thing happen to my Intrigue? Sadly, I think it is very possible/logical and so do the techs at Cummins in Ft. Meyers, FL and in Jacksonville, FL and Novi, MI. They all think it is only a function of time and miles.
So what do we do? I for one have followed some advise I have found on the Cummins Diesel Forum http://www.cumminsforum.com (http://www.cumminsforum.com) . There appears to be several relatively knowledgeable people on the forum and there is a lot of information on ULS fuel in their database.
There is a consensus that adding a quart of "ashless" 2-cycle oil to every 25 gallons of diesel fuel will both help to lubricate the pump and help to keep the nitrile seals from shrinking. There are those on the forum that claim to have been doing this for years to add longevity to the both of the fuel pumps.
If you check with Cummins you will find it is acceptable to add up to 5% of crankcase oil to the fuel with no harm. In fact many of you are aware that they sell systems to large fleets that continually pump used crankcase oil into the fuel while adding fresh oil to the crankcase. This is purported to allow them to never do oil changes but instead only change filters. Many large fleets pay Cummins to add this system the their new vehicles before they put them on the road. Bottom line, it is apparently safe to add used oil to the fuel and this used oil has all kind of contaminants that do not exist in fresh oil.
If this is the case then I feel quite safe adding ashless 2-cyle oil to my fuel and this is exactly what I am doing. One gallon to a tank which is only about 1% and I may bump it to 2%. I am using my Dodge as a test vehicle and have been adding 2 quarts of ashless 2-cycle oil to 25 gallons for the last 34k miles with no known problems.
One side benefit that I have noticed is a 1.8 mile per gallon increase in fuel mileage on my truck and this has been consistent over the 34k miles since I started doing it. I will head north from Florida in my Intrigue later this month plan to add 2 gallons of ashless 2-cycle oil to my tank each time I fill it.
One could use any oil (even used) but the ashless 2-cycle oil is intended to be burned in combustion engines. I use ashless to reduce the chance of deposits on the upper cylinder parts and to help protect emissions.
I would be very interested in any thoughts any of you might have.
Joey & Debi
'98 Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 30129 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30129)
---Wow I do love this group. Joey you get my tech. award for this year so far. I agree and your write up makes sense. Thanks for the time and effort. Were did you buy the 2 cycle ashless oil? Do you have a brand that you like?
Thanks again Jim Spivey Allure 31432
Yahoo Message Number: 30131 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30131)
I have been using about a qt. of auto trans fluid to a full tank of fuel and I have been doing this for years. I picked up the idea from otr truckers a long time ago.
No problems that I am aware of. Most problems that we RVers encounter are probably the result of too few miles put on the rigs.
Ron
98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 30138 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30138)
WHAT TYPE OF TRANS FLUID DO U USE?
Charlie & Lorraine Zecman
2002 Magna # 6162
Florida
Yahoo Message Number: 30142 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30142)
I use QUICKSILVER Marine Lubricants Premium 2-Cycle Outboard Oil. It is available in gallons ($16.95) from Sams Club and Costco. It is a product of Mercury Marine. I DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC 2-CYCLE OIL (see below).
I have found the list below on the Dodge Cummins forum:
1. Quicksilver Marine Premium 2 cycle outboard oil (the one above)
2. Pennzoil Premium Outdoor/multipurpose 2-cycle TC-W3, also labeled Pennzoil Premium Outboard/Multipurpose 2-Cycle
3. Quaker State Small Engine Universal 2-cycle engine oil
4. Super Tech Universal 2-cycle engine oil
All the above are similar and contain roughly 80% highly refined lubricating oil and 20% solvent with a small fraction of dye. All of these oils are certified TC-W3 and have dual ratings for use in both water coolded and air cooled applications. They exceed the TC-W3 ratings and are also rated certified according the the JASO standards FA & FB, API TC-W3 and Service Level 1C, NMMA and BIA and are Category 3 rated.
I am confident there are many other good oils available. Be certian to look for TC-W3 (Standard that includes ashless as one of the parameters). Most ashless oils will also state "Ashless" somewhere on the label.
SYNTHETIC 2-CYCLE OIL:
Undoubtedly, a question will come up regarding Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil since synthetic oil nearly always has claims of cleaner and more lubricity. My belief is DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC 2-Cycle in a diesel UNTIL SPECIFIC TESTS HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED. The majority of synthetic
2-cycle oils contain an additive pack rich in detergents. At the 2-
cycle level, based on the average piston temps reached in most 2- cycle applications, this is not a problem. At higher average piston temperatures, the detergents contained in the additive packs of many synthetics could encounter problems. Detergents contain metallic- based compounds. When burned, they leave an ash deposit which can build up, and in 2-cycle applications, this can result in spark plug fouling and exhaust port plugging. Both conditions, lead to lost power and eventually engine failure. I believe highway diesel piston temps run higher for longer periods of time than air or water cooled 2 cycle gas engines. I am not aware of any specific testing but IMHO the higher temp may lead to deposits on piston and exhaust valves.
Please understand, I am not an expert but only an avid reader and collector of information and have spent 35 years in the automotive industry. I am not an engineer but an avid automotive restorer and automotive component rebuilder. Herein, I am explaining what I am doing to help protect my pre-2007 engines from damage due to ULSD based on what I have found in literature and on web sites. It sounds logical and safe to me. One thing I can say absolutely is that if your lift pump begins to fail and loses pressure you WILL damage your injector pump and if either lose lubrication they will fail. The primary purpose of the sulfur that has been removed from ULSD fuel was lubrication. I am trying to take a positive step to replace the lubrication of components and hopefully stop seals from drying/shrinking and leaking on my vehicles. Only time will tell if these steps are effective.
I also value your opinions. If you reply PLEASE snip or delete most of my message above because it is long and only needs to be read once rather than clogging up the forum by being repeated in replys.
Joey & Debi
'98 Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 30143 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30143)
Does the trans fluid you are using contain a high level of detergents as in most trans fluids? My research indicates taht the detergents (typically metal based additives that can leave deposits at high temperaturs) can leave deposits behind at the combustion chamber temperatures that our engines run at.
What are the benefits you see from running a quart of trans oil to a tank (very low ration of oil to fuel)? Do you have any opinon as to trand fluid vs. 2-cycle oil? Is it possible that trans fluid is a better solution?
Joey & Debi
'98 Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 30145 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30145)
Why use expensive low ash oil as fuel additive? How is this better than 10W30 engine oil?
Why use automatic transmission hydraulic fluid (ATF) as fuel additive? Do the clutch friction additives in ATF not damage injection system parts? How is this better than 10W30 engine oil?
Truckers used ATF years ago in engines with oil lubed, loose tolerance, mechanical injection systems, not on current engines.
If Cat & Cummins allow use of used crankcase oil in fuel, how does that permit use of ATF in fuel? Maybe we could also use synthetic turbine oil in fuel because diesel crankcase oil is allowed?
Until I learn more from Cat & Cummins, only diesel engine oil or gasoline engine oil will be added to my fuel.
Eric Lee Elliott
5 Inspire 51321
Caterpillar C9
Yahoo Message Number: 30147 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30147)
Joey I found a Amsoil product just for this purpose. The product is a diesel concentrate for low sulfur fuel. I like this company as they make the Trans. oil. I also like all Merc. products. Do you know of any reason not to use this product? I am no expert, and was follwoing your lead, so your opinion is much apprecated.
Thank you,
Jim Spivey Allure 31432
Yahoo Message Number: 30148 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30148)
go to AMSOIL WEB page, look up Diesel Fuel additives and read what they have to say. i am interested in your opinion?
Thank you,
Jim Spivey
Yahoo Message Number: 30152 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30152)
Nothing special just what ever I happen to pick up at the time I think of it. One thing to think about though is my engine is total mechanical and yours is not and this might make a difference? I don't know. I bought this coach because I didn't want an electronic engine, Just old fashioned I guess?
Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 30154 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30154)
I don't think it really makes a whole lot of difference. I just started with trans fluid years ago and it seems to work for me. May not be the right thing in later electronic engines though? Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 30157 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30157)
One thing I once heard against using trans fluid, is that it's not made to burn. Two cycle oil sounds better to me because it is made to "burn"
Larry 03 Allure 30856
Yahoo Message Number: 30160 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30160)
Cummins recoomended to me that I use Fleetguard Fleet-Tech diesel additive to give more lubrication AND replace my water fuel separator with the FS-20,000 filter that adds additional lubrication.
Steve Brown
04' Inspire #51168
Yahoo Message Number: 30161 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30161)
I have been reading all the messages about ULS fuels. I just called Cummings and the teck rep said that he has been receiving many calls on the subject. Their possion is that the new fuels meet Cummings specs and feel that there is no need to add oil for engines older than 2007 The 2007 is a different animal because off the government requirements.
fritz 98 allure 30223
Yahoo Message Number: 30162 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30162)
This was the same information I received from Cummins!
Gordon Hertz
2003 Intrigue #11587
Yahoo Message Number: 30168 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30168)
But the question is why not? If you get 1.5 to 2 mpg improvement the oil pays for itself even at $17 per gallon for premium 2 cycle oil. You do the math. It works down to $0.85 per gallon for diesel. Won't see that again! And if it helps prevent a $4,000 repair bill even a little, why that's just gravy. So the economics work. But then again if you are economically motivated what the heck are you doing traveling in a MH?
Bob Amory
2002 Allure 30760
Yahoo Message Number: 30173 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30173)
Jim, you suggested I go to the AMSOIL site to research their new product for use with ULSD. I should let you know I am an AMSOIL Dealer #1408540 but I adhere to the forum rules and do not promote their products here. In fact in 5 years of being a member I have never mentioned the word AMSOIL before and I have not participated in any of the AMSOIL discussions that have taken place.
Beyond that, I tend to wait 1 to 2 years before I actually use a new product from any company, including AMSOIL, so that I can gather feedback from experienced users.
I do use their Cetane Boost Additive and their Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (advancement over the older HD synthetic) with a Fleetguard 9009 bypass filter and adhere to a 15k mile change interval. I sample my oil and since using this setup my contaminats results are lower accross the board at the 15k mile interval than I was getting with Mobil Delvac1 at 6k miles and that was far better than my experience with non-synthetic heavy duty oils. I also use Transynd in my Allison. Well, I'm getting close to promoting and I am certain many will tell me so I'll stop. If you wish to discuss AMSOIL please email me separately and I'll try to give you my opinion on any question you may have.
As I mentioned in my previous posts I am using Quicksilver Ashless 2- cycle oil (I have no connection to this company and it is also not an AMSOIL product) because numerous cummins owners have been using it with good results even before the ULSD came on the market and the experience since ULSD has been even more positive.
As I said in my posts I am simply trying to find a way to keep my engines from experiencing the ULSD failures that many have already experienced. So far, knock on wood, I've either been lucky or it is working.
Yahoo Message Number: 30174 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30174)
In my opinion the reason for the more expensive ashless 2-cycle oil is because ash can form deposits on high temperature components like those in the combustion chamber (pistons, valves). You may be able to find a standard motor oil that is ashless but when you consider the cost of approx $17 spread over 110 gallons it is not really too expensive. The other reason is that 2-cycle oil is formulated to be burned by engines.
Joey & Debi
'98 Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 30175 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30175)
Reading the messages it is interesting that on the one hand Cummins says you don't need to add anything to pre-2007 engines and on the other hand they recommend that you use a fuel filter (or other cummins product) that adds a lubricant to the fuel.
Try talking to the parts departments. I have talked to four in different areas of the country. They are selling lift pumps as fast as they can get their hands (if you order one you may wait up to 30 days to get one) on them and 3 of the 4 indicated that it is not "if" the pre-2007 will fail but "when".
Clearly, I don't know the answer but several cummins forums many discussions on how adding 2-cycle fuel has taken them beyond the failure mileage that others have experienced with the only other noticeable changes being that many get better fuel mileage and some claim the engine idles more quietly. Even if it only helps and delays the failure I am willing to try.
Yahoo Message Number: 30176 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30176)
I have a 2004 Allure with the ISL370 and a 5 year warranty. I don't want to delay the failure of my lift pump. If it fails in the next two years, cummins pays. If it fails after that, I pay.
On the subject of gaining 1.5 MPG by adding 2 cycle oil. I would think that everyone would be doing this if it works.
George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
Yahoo Message Number: 30179 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30179)
Mines is still under warranty, so if its going to start dripping lets do it now so I can get the "devil behind me"
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731.
Yahoo Message Number: 30180 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30180)
I'm really surprised no one mentioned the irony.
The ULSD was developed to put fewer pollutants in the air.
Now to save our engines everyone's putting everything from 2 cycle to standard oil, used oil, and even ATF in their engines -- wonder what sort of pollutants that causes to be expelled?
Just wait, a "do-gooder" is going to get wind of this and next thing you know the EPA is going to sue Cummins for their used oil mixed into fuel system and the rest of us will be threatened with fines and smog checks will become mandatory on diesel MHs.
Don't blink, a California regulatory agency has already been pushing, and a bill may have recently been introduced, to require smog checks on diesels, especially to get those more than 15 years old off the road. Hey, how many of you took out a 20 year loan on your rig?
Letters have already been sent out to current California diesel owners, by the regulatory agency (a copy has been posted on rv.net) that they are even going to try to get them to have to retrofit current EGR tech onto old diesel.
Are we allowed to comment on this board that we, I mean I, hate hippies? Eric Cartman says "hippies always want to save the world but all they do is smoke pot all day and smell bad."
I wonder if it ever occurred to the typical New York city environmentalist at war with diesels that without diesels delivering their food they're all going to starve?
Look, I'm not pro-polution so don't get me wrong, but watch out folks, how goes California so goes the nation.
Anyway, have there been any problems with the pumps on CAT engines?
Yahoo Message Number: 30188 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30188)
Good point Fat Erik Cartman:
I have been reading the ULSD posts and wondering when someone would notice the obvious point you illustrated. Further, I've done some independent research, and come to my own conclusion that the economics are not there. To put one of any number of additves in my fuel costs 6-7 dollars a tank of fuel. What if I start my own insurance policy and dump 6 bucks in a special account each time I fuel up? Will that cover the cost of repair? Maybe bordering on probably. I will assume the risk.
We all find it easier to trust posts to this forum that include the poster's real name and coach info. I didn't see that in your post. I look forward to reading your future posts.
Dean '95 Magna 5233
Yahoo Message Number: 30189 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30189)
I was at the auto parts store this week looking at fuel additives for diesel fuel. Has anyone looked at Marvel Mystery Oil. On the container it says it can be used for diesel fuel, one quart per 100 gallons.
With all of the talk on additives, I was just wondering what you guys think.
Kevin
05 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 30190 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30190)
I got in the business in 1957 and this product had already been around a long time then. I'm sure it is as good as any> Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 30191 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30191)
Hi Folks,
Note that the MMO web site states that MMO is not to be used in 2007 ULSD engines (my interpretation).
Consider reading the links below:
http://skepdic.com/slick50.html (http://skepdic.com/slick50.html)
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/index.html#snake (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/index.html#snake)
And if you have time on your hands:
http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/165108422 (http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/165108422)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/18/141/article/ (http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/18/141/article/) Snake_Oil__Is_That_Additive_Really_A_Negative.html
I like the "In conclusion" statement at the bottom of the last link above.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 30192 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30192)
Ah, I fondly remember working in a Mobil gas station in a Detroit suburb, Ecorse, in 1956 and a guy by the name of Andy Granatelli came around selling an additive out of the trunk of his car to promote longer life engines. Those were the Good Old Days.
Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 30193 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30193)
Thankfully we now have wonderful and easily accessible information sources like the internet to inform us about such products.
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX
Yahoo Message Number: 30194 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30194)
Should be: Ron wrote: Ron 98 Allure 30185
Yahoo Message Number: 30198 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30198)
Fred,
I think I would be skeptical about using any additional additives/lubricants in any of the new 2007 models because of the EGR and Catalytic systems installed on them. I think all of these companies should probably do new testing on their products to make sure they are compatible with the new diesel engines. I am impressed that Marvel has already looked at these compatibility issues.
I have never known anywone who has used Marvel Mystery Oil as a diesel fuel or gas additive so I thought I would pose the question. It might just be the ticket to prolong the life of our fuel delivery systems.
kevin
05 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 30201 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30201)
Kevin
I used Marvel Mystery Oil as an additive to the fuel tanks on our live-aboard, diesel powered, Long Range Trawler Yacht (42' Krogen) for about ten years. The engine was different from the Cummins in my 2004 Allure. It was a Ford Lehman 135 naturally aspirated diesel. It had mechanically driven injectors and mechanical fuel pump. I changed both primary and dual secondary fuel filters every 150 engine hours. I began using MMO when the first move to Low Sulfur fuel came out some time in the early 90's.
I used MMO at somewhat less than the recommended 1 quart per 100 gallons. I carried 700 gals. of fuel.... a BIG drink, 350 gals. in each of two tanks. I added a quart to each tank when refueling. I usually refilled with around 100 gals left in each tank, so my mix was about 1 quart per 250 gals. I also ALWAYS used BIOBOR JF biocide additive to my fuel at every refill, at a dose of around 1 oz. per tank (dangerous - potent stuff!). By the way.... we got about 4nm/gal running at the normal, flat-out, cruising speed of 8 knots.
I do NOT use MMO for my Cummins in the Allure.
This may be a good post in which to mention a habit I had aboard our vessel..... a DAILY engine room check. Every morning (and that was EVERY morning, as we lived aboard full-time) in addition to the nautical checks, I would look over the engine. Looking for leaks, loose wires, frayed belts or hoses, check the engine oil level, transmission fluid level, and coolant water level. To this day, when we are aboard our ALLURE I do a similar DAILY engine check.
Joe in Sun City Center, FL
2004 Allure 36' #31031
Yahoo Message Number: 30215 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30215)
-I have a dilemma, to add or not to add. If we take the lubrication question out off the discussion, is there anyone out there that has had a like increase of 1.7 mpg when oil was added?
Yahoo Message Number: 30229 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30229)
You raise some very familiar concerns about California regulations regarding "pollution" rules.
I was in the aerospace paint industry, when back in the '70's and 80's, we "couldn't believe" the outrageous ideas they (California) were pushing in the name of environment. They ended up costing our industry and our customers millions of dollars and, in many cases, promoting the use of inferior performing coatings. The development and flight testing of the waterborne and high solids materials has taken years.
Brad Ward
2000 Magna 5916
Yahoo Message Number: 30234 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30234)
Unfortunately, as can often happen, comments in a message I left on April 3, 2007 on this subject have been taken out of context. I have NOT experienced a 1.7 mpg increase on my Intrigue.
In my original message regarding the adding of 2-Cycle oil in my diesel fuel I stated that after switching to ULSD in my Dodge Pickup with a 5.9 Cummins diesel I had lost both a lift pump and an injection pump at a cost of over $4k.
Due to the expense I began research on how to avoid a recurrance.
Several months after the repairs I decided (based on my readings) that the practice of adding Ashless 2-Cycle oil may provide a clean replacement of the lubrication lost in the ULSD fuel. After adding a mixture of a quart of 2-cycle oil to a tank of fuel (approx.25 gallons) and driving for the 34k miles since my fuel mileage increased an average 1.8 mpg. My Dodge used to get 25 mpg and now consistently average 26.8 mpg when all of the tanks are averaged over the 34k miles. This is an increase of about 7% in fuel economy.
I have decided to use the same mixture in my Intrigue in an attempt to protect the lift pump and injector pump. It MAY follow that I would see a similar increase in fuel mileage on my Intrigue but as I have been parked at a site in Florida for the winter months I have not been able to check the mileage. Since my Intrigue gets 9 mpg if I experienced a 7% increase in mpg I May see a gain of 0.63 mpg.
Somehow this was converted by others to a claim of a 1.7 mpg gain on the Intrigue. I didn't want this distorted rendition of my message to lead those on this forum to think that I stated such a thing. I don't enen know if I will get the 0.63 mpg increase but, of course, would welcome it. When I drive north in a few weeks I'll be checking the mileage closely and if there is a confirmed increase in mpg on my first few tanks of fuel I'll post same on this forum.
Thanks
Joey & Debi
'98 Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 30245 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30245)
What year is youre Dodge 5.9?
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731
Yahoo Message Number: 30252 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30252)
Joey:
Thanks for the clarification. I for one am guilty as charged and did extend your experience with the truck to the MH. However, Eric Lee Elliot in message 30119 did report 1 mpg increase in his C9 after adding 10W30 motor oil to his fuel. Would 2 cycle oil do the same? Jury is still out. But to pay for the oil at $17 per gallon, (Wal-Mart in Naples has TC W3 offbrand 2 cycle oil for $9 per gallon) I figure you only need 1/2 mpg improvment to pay for the oil assuming diesel at $2.75 per gallon. Plus it might extend fuel pump life.
Win-Win.
Bob Amory
2002 Allure 30760
Yahoo Message Number: 30259 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30259)
Thanks, yes I was getting concerned that the wrong impression was being portrayed. Like you, I think the total cost, if any, will be minimal and the 2-Cycle oil may in fact pay for itself. My thinking has been that 2-Cycle is meant to be burned in internal combustion engines and the ashless should greatly limit the chance of harmful deposits. If it also avoidsor even significantly postpones the costly repairs to the fuel system we have, as you say, a win-win.
What more can we ask?
Joey & Debi
Pristine '98 Intrigue 10540
Yahoo Message Number: 30273 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30273)
---
Can anyone tell me how much 2 cycle oil I should add to 100 gallons of diesel. I have a 1997 32 ft allure w/330hp.
Thanks
Richard and Carol
Yahoo Message Number: 30279 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30279)
Richard and Carol:
The short answer is about 1% or 1 gallon per 100 gallons of fuel. For an excellent discussion of this topic go back through this thread and find Joey's post of April 3. It was very well done and documents his reasoning and provides some sources for additional information.
Bob Amory
2002 Allure 30760
Yahoo Message Number: 30283 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30283)
Just had mine replaced at Cummins West in West Sacramento, CA. Now that it has been replaced under warranty ($100 deductible), guess it is time to find some ashless 2 cycle oil.
Carol
'04 Inspire 51046
Yahoo Message Number: 30286 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30286)
The failure occurs when seals that were swollen because of the aromatics in the NON-ULSD now shrink when those aromatics are removed in the new ULSD fuel. If your 'new' lift pump wasn't exposed to the old diesel fuel, the seals should not swell/shrink and you should no longer have the leak problem with the lift pump.
The real question for you at this point after replacing the lift pump is whether or not using 2 cycle oil will expose the lift pump seals to 'stuff' that will again swell them and potentially start the swell/shrink cycle all over again for you - effectively negating the gain you just made by replacing the lift pump.
Mike
Yahoo Message Number: 30288 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30288)
Thanks, Mike. Guess I'll just continue reading till I learn all you know before I make my decision. Figure carrying a few gallons of 2 cycle oil will just add weight I can't handle, also.
Carol
Yahoo Message Number: 30354 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30354)
Joey I order the Diesel additive and It didn't come, on back order?
Yahoo Message Number: 30418 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30418)
Does anyone know if all 2 cycle oil with the TC-W3 spec is ashless? Is there a TC-W3 spec 2 cycle oil that is not ashless? I saw Pennzoil TC-W3 spec that did not have the words "ashless" anywhere on the bottle. Thanks
Larry, 03 Allure #30856
Yahoo Message Number: 30423 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30423)
Hi Larry and all the Country Coach Owner Folks, I find many of the questions posted can be answered with Googling - Ashless is one of them. But Ashless may not be the issue. What diesel engine fuel additive can be used to lubricate the gaskets is the issue.
The answers to most questions can be found in the CCI manuals. There are a few that need group help but many were answered in the first 5000 messages and here we are now over 30,000.
I'm not trying to single out anyone - just making an observation.
I enjoy this group.
Fred Kovol
Yahoo Message Number: 30429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30429)
Thanks Fred. Yes, I previously tried "Yahooing" "TCW3" and "ashless", but the answer didn't jump out at me. Maybe I need to look closer. I know what you mean about reading the CC manuals.
I have read them many times over and agree they are full of very useful information. I even spent the $200 to purchase them because they didn't come with my used coach. Happy trails...
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 30444 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30444)
I still have not found any reason to use ashless oil in fuel instead of standard lubricating oil. Forums can think of many illogical unproven reasons to use ashless oil & magazines can write of it without test results or engine manufacturer validation. Amsoil can sell it for much more than market price. But I still have no valid reason to add $17 per gallon oil to fuel instead of $7 per gallon oil.
Diesels burn oil. 2 stroke diesels usually burn bunker oil or minimally refined oil.
My new Poulan trimmer has a 50 hour rated engine life. My Cat is rated about 8000 hours engine life. It seems a flight of fancy to believe 2 stroke weed eater oil is what the Cat should drink.
Where can I see some information that supports ashless oil added to fuel as better than 10W30, based on long term engine life & fuel economy?
Eric Lee Elliott
Yahoo Message Number: 30450 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/30450)
Brad, I think of environmental controls every time I see a piece of space shuttle insulation foam fall off as a result of the forced use of inferior adhesives.
Yahoo Message Number: 36442 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/36442)
I received an email coupon from Seven Feathers Resort and RV offering $10 in free fuel for each night one stays at either the hotel or RV resort. Since it is good for only January and February it does me no good here in Arizona. If you know you will be staying at Seven Feathers in Canyonville, Oregon in the next couple of months let me know and I will email you the coupon.
Jim
#10613