Yahoo Message Number: 40237 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40237)
Has anyone used the Water Sticks portable water softener and if so is it any good. Thanks.
John Flynn
05 allure 31143
Yahoo Message Number: 40239 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40239)
Hi John, we use a water softener we purchased at CW. It is black, but I don't know the brand. It works great, wouldn't be without it. Hollicks 07 Aff 6767 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Yahoo Message Number: 40241 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40241)
John, we've not used the water sticks. We have been using an "On-The-Go" water softener for 3 years and are very happy with it. It recharges with 1 lb of table salt and will handle 250-350 gallons of water depending on hardness. I am not familiar with "water sticks." What is the actual product name?
Lee (north of Seattle, Washington)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40243 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40243)
I HAVE A WATER STICK AND HAVE USED IT IN LAS VEGAS WHERE THE WATER IS VERY HARD. I CAN'T RECOMMEND IT THOUGH. IF I WAS TO GET ANOTHER I'D PICK ANOTHER BRAND. THE ATTRACTION WAS THE LOW PRICE...
Yahoo Message Number: 40244 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40244)
John, We have had the "ON THE GO" water softner from CW for about six months and would not be without it.
Bob Mussman
2006 Allure 470 31434
Yahoo Message Number: 40245 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40245)
We use the TravelSoft water softener. It recharges with 6 pounds of solar salt and only needs recharged about once every 2000 gallons of water. We bought it at Camping World 6 years ago and we love it. We wouldn't RV without it.
Bob Kumza
2003 Intrigue
Yahoo Message Number: 40277 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40277)
Have owned our water stick for 8 months. Very happy. EAsy to re- generate. Hooks up easy, is lightweight and stores anywhere.
Yahoo Message Number: 40279 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40279)
Please tell us who makes this product and how it works.
Lee (north of Seattle, Washington)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40287 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40287)
Go to www.watersticks.com (http://www.watersticks.com). Its PVC plastic approx 30" long and contains resin. To recharge, you use 2 cups of table salt diluted in water (I use a 2 liter soda bottle). Pour it in the softener, shake it up, let sit for a while (ie, driving from campsite to campsite).
Run water through it for 20-30 seconds and hook it up. Recommended re- charge is 200-500 gallons depending on your location in the USA. Our experience is being out West requires more frequent recharging.
Again we are very pleased with ours. Size and ease of recharge being the optimum words here. There are many others out there and most are very good products. We just like the size and ease of this one. Oh yea, it cost a lot less.
Hope that helps!!
Ken
Yahoo Message Number: 40308 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40308)
I visited the web site . . . looks like a good product! I think you made a good purchase.
Bottom line, aside from packaging, this brand is about the same as other similar products like the "On-The-Go" such as we have. I'm guessing our "On-The-Go" will soften a greater amount of "hardness" as it has more resins.
The key is the quantity of resins in the container. The greater the amount of resin the more water you can soften - that's it. Bottom line, it's a portable version of the classic home water softener.
All the rest of the marketing is BS.
Lee (in Moab, Utah)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40329 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40329)
I went to the Water Stick web site and saw that they have a smaller "gun" model intended for rinsing a vehicle with deionized water. That is the use I'm interested in. You have to dry your vehicle when you wash it only because if you don't the minerals in the water, mostly calcium and magnesium, will remain behind as spots when the water evaporates from the vehicle.
Walmart sells a low cost device that also connects to a water hose and has replaceable deionizer cartridges. The problem with that is you have to keep buying the cartridges. With the water stick you can inexpensively regenerate the stick. So, using a tool like this eliminates the need to dry the coach, thus saving a large portion of the labor involved in washing a coach. You can use regular water to wash and rinse. You only need to do one final rinse with deionized water to avoid drying the coach.
Does anyone have experience with the small rinsing gun sold at Walmart? It may be called Mr Clean.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 40330 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40330)
I bought the De-Ionized system at one of the RV shows in Pomona, CA. The idea is sound, what is at issue is the rate of water that will pass through the system and for how long. Most Car, RV, Boat dealers use some form of D.I. treatment. This is because you do not need to dry the object. All of this is true, but I have found at the rates that make our systems perform I can barely generate enough pressure to get to the top of the coach. I am forever changing the cartridges ( big pain, and they smell like a 1000 dead fish).
The whole idea is great, but I get the same effect from the P&G system and much less effort, I just don't use the soap. In fact as I ready for the rally I am going to wash the coach and give the system one more go before I abandoned the system. You may find me at the rally just follow the smell of dead fish, at that will be me.
Sincerely,
Jim Spivey Allure 470 31432
PS I am getting ready to fix mud flap myself, as anybody got any idea, other that rope to tie it up?
Yahoo Message Number: 40333 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40333)
I used a small chain and retainers to hold the mud flat in place, had to eventually replace the flap with a new one
--
Judy & Larry
04 Allure 31097
Now living in Tucson
Yahoo Message Number: 40461 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40461)
George,
I am not familiar with the mini water stick but I will check the web site. However, if it is simply a water softener, it probably will not do the job. It has been my experience that soft water is not the whole answer. Have you tried it? Water softeners exchange calcium and other minerals with sodium (salt). So, you still get some spotting but instead of calcium you get a small amount of salt. On the other hand, if it is a De-Ionizer it will work.
IMO de-ionization is the whole answer. D.I. water leaves no spots. Bear with me for a minute. I was the sales manager at a window manufacturing plant. We had a huge washing system with a D.I. final rinse which left absolutely no spots on the glass. This was especially important because there is no way to clean spots on the inside surfaces once the two panes are assembled into an insulated glass unit. If you have ever had a fogged insulated glass window you are painfully aware of the problem. But, I digress.
Re: Mr. Clean. I have one and use it only occasionally to clean my windshield and front end between full blown washes. I have an acrylic shield which gets terribly spotted on the inaccessible inside face with tap water. Of course,I could hinge the shield down and clean both surfaces properly but when I want a quick job I use my Mr Clean (Less than $20 at WalMart). It does a pretty good job but when you switch to D.I. the spray becomes very fine. I use a small ladder to get to the top of the windshield. I find that I exhaust the tiny cartridges within about 3-4 front end washes. They cost about $5 per cartridge. The soap lasts longer. it is about $6 as I recall. BTW I tried it with non- Mr. Clean soap with poor results. So they they gotcha on the hook! But that is OK because it is a pretty convenient and compact gadget for limited use. It is well worth the small initial price and the ongoing cost of supplies.
BTW, I was at Costco today and I noticed that they have a double canister D.I. production unit at $300. It is made by "Spotless Water Systems". It looks just like the one that I saw at a booth at the Pomona, CA, FMCA convention. Has anyone had any experience with this unit?
Daron Hairabedian, 98 Allure, #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40468 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40468)
My rinse route: use a pressure washer on the soft spray setting - hooked to my fresh water tank which has soft water in it - have soft water with a couple of drops of Cascade dishwasher final rinse in it. Rise off washing solution with soft water - final rinse with Cascade solution. Like the glasses in the dishwater . . . spotless.
Lee (in Colby, KS)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40479 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40479)
Hey Lee,
Thanks for your input. This sounds like an idea that I want to try before I plunk down $300 for that bulky De-Ionizer unit at Costco. It is about 36"x18"x 12". Also, I have been told that the canisters need to be re-charged with expensive D.I. beads after about 8-10 coach rinses. Before I begin to experiment I would like to take advantage of your experience with some more instructions. I am hoping you have time to answer a few questions:
1. You said you set your machine on the soft spray setting. My old pressure washer has only one setting....full bore. Were you referring to the wide pattern spray nozzle or does your machine actually have variable pressure choices? I must admit I am somewhat ignorant regarding these gadgets. Which brand and model are you using?
2. The instructions on my machine say that normal house water pressure is required for it to work properly. I was not aware that my coach water pump provides adequate pressure and volume to make these things work. I will try it!
3. How did you add the couple of drops of Cascade spot removing final rinse liquid? My pressure washer has a 22 oz. jug that is used to dispense a small amount of soap by metering with a dial that rotates #1 through #10. Does your pressure washer have a jug with a variable metering device like mine? Do you add the Cascade drops to the soft water in that pint jug while continuing to use the soft water from your tank? What dispenser setting do you use?
4. I am assuming that you use the soft water for washing as well as rinsing. Right? Do you use car washing detergent?
5. Do you use up all of the water in your tank in this wash and rinse process?
6. Do you fill your tank with soft water from your home water softener or from a portable. If portable, which brand do you use. I just want to add your choice to the others who have reported on this forum as I am interested in purchasing one.
Sorry to ramble on. I just want to make sure I know what I am doing by knowing for sure what you are doing.
Thanks,
Daron, 98 Allure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40480 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40480)
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of water purification based on your career in the glass industry. Again, that's the great thing about this group: so many experts in many fields.
You make an important distinction between soft water and deionized water that I overlooked. The water stick is clearly a water softner as it uses only one kind of resin beads (deionization requires two).
So, as you point out, the output water would be salty and would not only potentially leave crystalline spots, but would be bad for ferrous metals on the coach as well.
I looked at the Spotless dionizer system on Costco.com: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspxProdid=11201522&whse=BC&topna (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspxProdid=11201522&whse=BC&topna) v=&browse
The two resin tanks distinguish it as a true dionizer. The larger model shown in the picture is $369 and it will do 300 gallons before recharge. A pack that will do two recharges is $150. This system would do the job, but awfully expensive. I have not tried the Mr.
Clean, but I don't see how it could last very long, and as you point out, the output is poor.
In my case I have a reverse osmosis water treatment system that originally cost $4000. It is left over from before my kidney transplant when I did home dialysis and had to have ultrapure water.
My system involved a 10 micron sediment filter followed by a charcoal filter to remove chlorine, then a water softener, followed by the RO machine.
The RO puts out a slow feed of product water, but Lee's post gave me an idea. I could make RO water and dump it into my fresh water tank overnight. The the next day I could drop a pickup hose into my tank which would be connected to a pressure washer which I would use for a final rinse.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 40485 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40485)
George, you may be worrying too much about the "salt" residues in the typical water softener. I really doubt you'd find crystals on the side of your coach, that would be so much salt in the water to be undrinkable.
Lee (in eastern Kansas)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40493 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40493)
Hey George,
Thanks for your response. This water thing is a huge subject! So, this is a long message. This goes a little beyond water softening per se. Pre-requisite: a passing grade in RO 101. The timid or those with limited imaginations should not proceed further.
Re: Your Reverse Osmosis Idea. RO systems were among some of the products that I sold to home owners a few ..no...a lot of years ago. I worked for a company that was very appropriately named "Nimbus". That was back when no one even knew how to spell reverse osmosis! I talked with the owner of a water purification company in his booth at the Pomona, CA, FMCA convention about on-board or portable RO systems. He said, "You can install a pressure boosting pump in-line to increase the rate of production as the production volume is directly proportional to the pressure that is being applied to the membrane. Assuming, of course, that you stay below the membrane bursting threshold."
A friend of mine produces all of their water with RO. He uses the system outside of his coach which pumps the RO pure water into his fresh water tank. The tank acts as a reservoir. Then, he taps off only tank water for all of his needs. At a ratio of 8 to 1, he goes through a lot of tap water to get his tank full of purified water but, the results are the best water you could ask for.... for all purposes. I realize this sounds quite extreme. On the other hand, every appliance, all of his fixtures, plumbing, pots and etc. must look like new inside and out. Never a water (mineral) spot. I only heard of this one other time when I was selling the systems. One homeowner in Newport Beach, CA set up a huge tank in his home for storing RO for use in the whole house. It was a good thing that he had unlimited funds because it was a very expensive installation!
The application for a coach would be much less costly. I am presently considering it.
If you have read this far you must be a detail maniac like me. Has anyone else out there done this installation or heard of it? Aren't all Country Coach owners fanatics for the ultimate perfection like me? Or.. have I just gone one step beyond the "Twilight Zone"?
BTW George, regarding your comment about expertise: I appreciate your kind thought but, I am reminded of a conversation that I had with one of my college professors. I had asked him a question for which he had no answer. I said incredulously, "But, but, you are the expert on this subject." His humble response was," Young man, remember this. There are no experts...only people with varying degrees of ignorance". Profound! As you can clearly detect, I never forgot!
Sorry for the philosophy lesson. I was majoring in Education. Sometimes I get carried away!
Daron, 98 Allure, #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40495 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40495)
Daron,
If you use the D.O. setup, and fill your 100 gallon freshwater tank with D.O. water,.........what do you do with the 800 gallons of water that is sloughed off by the system?
Dave Trotter 01 Intrigue 11215
Yahoo Message Number: 40500 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40500)
Just got my On The Go demonized water system. Since I have a large system at home I am familiar with the workings and the results. This portable unit works great. Small and compact, rechargeable and does a very nice job.
08 Allure, #31600
Jake & Nancy
Yahoo Message Number: 40501 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40501)
Dave,
Thanks. Good point! As I said, that is a lot of water. This "whole tank" thing may be the epitome in terms of quality but, for sure not be the best solution in terms of water conservation. I live in a drought area (actually an irrigated desert called Southern California). So, I am presently re-considering my earlier rash notions.
Maybe the best compromise would be the combination of soft water and RO. The softener would provide adequate quality water for most purposes. The RO water could be tapped only to the galley for drinking and cooking. The pre-filters and RO membrane could be installed in the galley cabinet under the sink. The water storage canister could be set up in the same place or, if space is an issue, in a remote location nearby. Most RO canisters designed for household applications hold about 1.4 gallons of purified water and the system shuts off automatically when the canister is full. That is about 11.2 gallons of water that the system sloughs off. IMO that is reasonable. When dry camping or using a campsite without a dump drain, the whole system could be shut off with a bypass valve.
BTW, I wonder how much water goes down the storm drain when we wash a 40-45 ft coach by hand with tap pressure? With a pressure washer? Does anyone know? Some campsites that I have visited in Southern California actually encourage washing at the campsite as it helps them to irrigate the grassy areas. Is anyone still hand washing their own coach like me? I guess I just like rubbing on it and inspecting every square foot!
Daron, 98 Allure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40502 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40502)
Daron,
We buy and use drinking water in the gallon jug (60-70 cents/gal). It's so cheap that a D.O. system is not merited(IMHO).
We carry an on-board WaterMark softener for cooking and bathing. I use a push broom type wash brush on an extendable wand and water flow adjuster. I'd be surprised if I used more that 10-15 gallons for wash and rinse. The water spotting is negligable and will wipe off easily with a damp cloth.
Dave Trotter 01 Intrigue #11215
Yahoo Message Number: 40509 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40509)
Lee, you make a good point that soft water is not salty to taste. I was mistaken, I believe, to say that soft water would contain salt (sodium chloride)and might form crystals or rust ferrous metals.
Softener resin beads exchange calcium and magnesium ions for sodium ions, not sodium chloride (salt). So, that is why the softened water does not taste salty. I guess the question is whether sodium would cause water spots. Does anyone know? I hope Daron will give his opinion. Certainly anyone on a low salt diet shouldn't drink water out of a softener as it is sodium that causes water retention and as a result, high blood pressure.
If you are right that we are worring too much about using softened water as a rinse, I think the Water Stick made for that purpose would be the best value and the great advantage to it is that it can be easily taken on the road.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 40510 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40510)
Daron
I read your entire post, so I'm a detail guy too. In fact my non-rv friends say I'm obsessed with "maintenance." They say I'd rather lie under the bus all day than have sex which is almost true, but not quite. I tell them I do it for the same reason dogs do (lie under the bus, that is): it's cool under there in the summer and I can see all around while no one can see me. Anyway, I feel right at home on this group where obsession is a virtue.
Dave brings up a good point: an RO produces a heck of a lot of reject water. I used to travel with my dialysis equipment in an RV. I calculated that I used approximately 300 gallons of water per treatment with most of that being RO reject water. I used to feel sorry for the campground. If they had known they would have thrown me out for sure.
Yep, we're going to great lengths to avoid drying our coaches. What do you think about Lee's point that soft water just contains sodium (not salt)? Do you think that would cause water spots? If not, I think the Water Stick for rinsing is the way to go.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 40526 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40526)
Hey George (and anyone else who is still hanging with us),
Thanks for your response. It is nice to know that someone else is as curious to know everything as I am. Most people call us mechanical fanatics. Anyway, here are a few additional thoughts on the water subject to feed your insatiable thirst for knowledge. Er..uh..if not knowledge, then at least some opinions for you to ponder:
1. Using soft water to wash. I have soft water at home but, my community assoc. frowns on driveway washing. The last time I washed with my house soft water was years ago. As I recall, the salt did not form large crystals but only small whitish stains where droplets were allowed to dry. These stains were not as bad as the calcium and magnesium left behind by hard water. Nonetheless, they were visible. Therefore I was going to try Lee Zabrowski's suggested procedure of filling my tank at home with soft water. Then, taking my coach down to our designated community washing bay, pressure washing with soft water, then rinsing with soft water, then chasing with dishwashing surfactant (Cascade, Jet Dry, etc) injected into the final rinse water. However, I am waiting to hear the answer from Lee to a few questions that I posted on the forum so that I can duplicate his procedure properly. He said It works for him. It sounds logical because the surfactant should cause the water to "sheet" instead of forming those problematic droplets. He said that it works for him. Once I get his response to my questions and I am clear on the right way to do this, I will try it and report on the results.
2. Possibility of corrosion. I agree with Lee on this. To experience severe corrosion, you would have to expose bare ferrous surfaces to a much more concentrated salt spray over an extended period. A useful example would be the wet winter salt found on on the highways in the Midwest where I lived for the first 30 years of my life. That concentrated salt and snow slush made some metal car parts look like Spanish Lace! BTW, at the General Motors test labs we had a test to determine the life expectancy of parts. It was called a CASS test. This was an acronym for calcium, acid, salt spray and it is a very severe test environment.
3. Reverse Osmosis rinse. I tried an RO rinse on my car recently. My home RO water storage canister holds only about 1.4 Gallons. So, I almost exhausted my supply by tapping off a gallon of RO into a clean plastic garden chemical sprayer. I took my car down to the washing area, washed and rinsed with hard tap water then, I sprayed the whole car with RO and let it dry. It worked very well except that one gallon was not quite enough to thoroughly rinse off all of the hard water. This would probably only be enough to do the front end of my coach! This is not practical for most of us who have the limited capacity of common household RO systems. Water wasted to produce RO is also a consideration per Dave Trotter's recent comment. One thing Dave did not consider is that all of the water that we buy in jugs or bottles is produced by commercial reverse osmosis equipment. I do not know if their off fall goes to the storm drains or elswhere. Hopefully, it is going into re-cycled water use like golf course irrigation. (Whoops! Another subject just got added to my research list.)
4. Portable water softener effectiveness and longevity of charge. Someone in this forum commented that the size of the water softener and consequent capacity of softening beads determines the gallons of soft water production between re-charges. This is correct. The home type softeners have a very large capacity to maximize output between charges and to store salt. Of course, we do not have the luxury of the space and weight of these large, cumbersome units. The Water Stick has a smaller capacity than some of the other more expensive portables and therefore would need re-charging more often. So, the choice it is a matter size convenience, price and the perceived inconvenience of re-charge frequency. The one other factor would be the hardness of the water in your most frequent or favorite camping locations. This information is usually available on line if the water is supplied by a municipality. However, if it is well water, reliable hardness information is more difficult to find. A hardness test kit would tell you if you really want to know. You may want a kit anyway to determine if your softener needs to be re-charged. You are probably already aware of the fact that the most notoriously hard water is in the Southwestern states.
5. Water Stick De-Ionizer. You mentioned the Water Stick de-ionizer "stick" shown in their web site. This seems to be a compromise between the Mr. Clean @$20 and the "Spotless" from Costco. I have not heard any comments about the effectiveness of the Water Stick DI gadget. BTW you said the Costco web site called out a price of $369. The same item is in stock at our local Costco store in San Juan Capistrano, CA @$300. Anyway, the Water Stick DI may be a subject for future investigation.
6. Ordinary filters. I am pretty sure that everyone knows that the "whole house" filter only stops relatively big chunks of stuff. It does not purify. It only filters sand and other sediment before it enters the coach plumping system. Under sink filters make the water taste and smell better but all of the dissolved solids pass through.
Well, as I warned you before, this subject is huge! I probably have not exhausted the issues but, Iam exhausted.... for now.
Daron, 98 Allure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40527 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40527)
I was told the more membranes you put in the less waste water you have is this true?
Al 03 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 40532 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40532)
Al,
It has been my experience that the shorter the question... the longer the answer.
I have never heard this notion. But, lets examine it. If two membranes are hooked up in parallel with enough pressure you may get more production of purified water but twice the off fall. You could accomplish that by using a larger membrane and/or higher pressure. Example: Cruise ship desalinators that produce fresh water from ocean salt water. If you try to mount two membranes in series there would not be enough pressure to produce anything from the second unit unless there is an in line pump. Also, since the second unit would be receiving highly concentrated "junk" water it would have to work harder to produce less. It would also deteriorate much sooner than the primary membrane due to its exposure to the very hard "junk" water.
I can not make any sense of this. I would be curious to hear the response to my comments from your source(s). I might be missing something here. Please let me know.
BTW the membrane is just a long tube of a special acetate material that is flattened and tightly rolled up. Pressurized water is introduced at one end of the tube. The pure water passes through the membrane surface and is collected. The now concentrated "junk" water is ejected very slowly at the other end of the tube into the drain in the form of a dribble.
Daron 98 Allure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40534 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40534)
Hey Daron, sorry for the slow response. We just got home after putting our first 2,500 miles on the Intrigue - Junction City> Olympic Peninsula> Seattle> Moab> Branson.
Here is the detail on my washing procedure. Again I find it works very well with minimal cost and time. I have had the Karcher 240D pressure washer for years, even before we got into RVing - a good product. I checked one web site selling Karcher and didn't see it so maybe it's an out-of-date model - electric, 1,400 PSI pressure, reservoir tank for mixing solutions that add to spray, 2 spray heads (cleaning contrete/wood; washing wand), small and light enough for ther rig. I soften my water on the road with a rechargable On-The-Go small tank softener, which will soften 300 gallons or so on one charge using 1 lbs. table salt. The Karcher washing wand has 2 setting both with soft sprays - one to rinse, the other to spray on the dilute reservoir solution.
Tools -
* Soft water for best results. (I use an On-The-Go, @ CW for $248 on sale - looks like a blue scuba tank) You'll use 10-15 gallons max for the whole job)
* Pressure washer (low pressure setting). The coach pump will be fine.
* Auto body washing liquid (any brand, tablespoon per gallon) * Two 5 foot threaded handles
* Fuller Brush washing brush (Vehicle Wash Brush Replacement Head #227. Soft bristle, 10"? wide, less than half the price as at the fancy auto cleaner outfits, about $10) * Fuller Brush Squeegee (actually a "concrete cleaner"? dual function brush on one side, foam squeegee on the other, the 14"? foam squeegee is awesome for taking off water, also conforms to many curves, like the side of the windshield, couldn't come up with a number, about $15). This tool is a gem! * Cascade Crystal Clear Rinse Agent (buy anywhere, teaspoon per ½ gallon in pressure washer reservoir) * Foot wide rectangular container/bucket for soap solution * On-board step stool as necessary
At Home -
Spray a section with water to wet; wash with FB washing brush/soap solution. Rinse with water, rinse with diluted Cascade in pressure washer; rinse with water. Squeegee. If you do all the brush/squeegee work and a partner does the spraying/rinsing it will take less than an hour. Windows and mirrors will need hand cleaning to finish them off - I use Heloise's solution and a microfiber cloth, not Windex.
On the Road Cleaning of the Coach (like in a restrictive campground or Wal-Mart parking lot) -
Wash with FB washing brush and gallon of water and tablespoon of auto soap solution. Squeegee. Done in less than 40 minutes; only adaquate on-the-run results.
Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40536 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40536)
Hey Lee,
You are forgiven, of course. Especially when your reason is a coach tour! Sounds like you had a great trip! You visited some of my favorite places in the West. Wish I could have been running with you....."together, separately, side by each" as my friends from the Hamtramck district of Detroit would always say.
Thanks for your detailed description of your M.O. I will be anxious to try it out as soon as soon as I can. I think there are a few others tagging along on this thread who will want to try your methods as well.
I haven't thought about good ole Fuller in a long time. I will have to get re-acquainted with them. I just requested their catalog on line.
I am going to try everything out with my old leaky clunker of a pressure washer. I'm hoping that it will not work so that I have an excuse to buy a new one.
I am afraid this antique will use more than 10-15 gallons of water. On the other hand, I am only accustomed to using hard tap water. Using soft water will probably be a whole new experience. Ha!...A jug of car washing liquid will probably last longer than its container!! Daron Hairabedian, 98 Allure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40539 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40539)
Daron, do you think that sodium chloride is coming out of a water softner? I thought it was sodium ions. Anyway, I guess you're saying whatever it is it will leave spots.
Also, you refer to the Water Stick carwash device as a dionizer as does the company, though their other products that work the same way are referred to as "softners." I also noticed that they no longer offer the car wash unit due to unavailability of "one part." They still offer the recharge resin. Maybe they discontinued it because it is actually a softner, having only one tank and one resin?
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 40540 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40540)
Lee
I'm impressed as well with your technique for washing a coach, but if you're going to squeegie it down, seems like you don't need demineralized water.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
Yahoo Message Number: 40544 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40544)
Lee,
Can't believe it.........when I read your washing regimen. It's like deja vu all over again. Your washing procedure is exactly like mine, except I usually don't use the pressure washer.
Water-Mark portable softener, foam squeegee, extendable wand with flow control and 10" wash brush head..........the whole sheebang! The only place I have to dry is around the window edges where the squeegee doesn't get. Typically, the water spotting is so inconsequential that I don't even bother. The whole operation takes 30-40 minutes. Not a big deal and not worth paying for and trusting someone else to do the job right. Plus, I can use the excercise!
Dave Trotter 01 Intrigue 11215
Yahoo Message Number: 40548 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40548)
George, I use softened water which is not demineralized water, just a better mix of ions to avoid scum and residues. Demineralized water has been purified by passage through a bed of ion-exchange resin (http://www.answers.com/topic/ion-exchange-resin) which removes mineral salts and is as pure as distilled water such as you'd use in your batteries, at how much a gallon???
I could skip that step I suppose but the longer the moisture hangs on the side of the coach the greater the chance of picking up dust/dirt from the wind-blown air.
Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40551 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40551)
Lee,
We had the drain from our home AC system get blocked by some critter or other. It was impossible to snake it out so I redirected the drain to the sink in the garage. This became an instant source of "distilled" water. As FL has abundent atmospheric H2O it takes about 20 minutes to make a gallon and this high rate ensures it is clean.
See you tomorrow at the IMAX.
Bob Handren'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178'00 JGCL
Yahoo Message Number: 40557 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40557)
Hi Dave. Excellent! I agree that close to perfection is close enough. Besides, you get a few miles down the road and something is going to dirty you up anyway. I also like a microfiber cloth and Héloise's Solution (soft water, vinegar, rubbing alcohol) on the windows, and for spot clean-ups.
Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40580 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40580)
I have a 4 gallon water jug, a 2 gallon dispensor and 2 1 gallon jugs, which I fill from machines at grocery stores for .15 to .35 a gallon...
John 04 Inspire 51078
Yahoo Message Number: 40582 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40582)
What is the size of the membrane that is used in your RO system?
Al 03 magna
Yahoo Message Number: 40591 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40591)
What is the size of membrane that is most commonly used? Is there more than one size? Can you get more water out with less waste if there are bigger membranes?
Al 03 Magna
Yahoo Message Number: 40611 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40611)
Al,
You didn't say who you are asking but, I am assuming you are addressing me. I have not purchased nor installed it yet. When I decide to go forward with the project I will probably go with the smaller household unit that is available from Costco or Lowes. I am not sure but, I believe it has an 18' membrane.
Daron 98 Allure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 40613 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40613)
Al,
Previously, it was my understanding that the ratio of pure water to waste was about the same for most household, low cost units. However, Eric Elliot wrote that the GE "Merlin" system produces 1/2 G/M. with no tank and less waste than other systems @ $370. I am going to check on availability locally. The systems that I was considering cost $160-$200 but, it sounds like the GE Merlin may be worth the additional cost. If I understand what Eric is saying, that production rate is about 1 oz. per second; not bad for not losing any space to a storage canister... unless you are impatient. I am just wondering if there is enough pressure to send the water through the 1/4" line to my Instant Hot Water Dispenser.
Daron 98 Alure #30226
Yahoo Message Number: 43528 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/43528)
-After my posting in Aug. my unit has been delivering less and less softwater per charge. I now get only about 50 gals. per regeneration.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Bob Mussman
2006 Allure 31434
Yahoo Message Number: 43534 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/43534)
Bob, I had a similar experience with my ON THE GO 3 years ago. After some trial and error I found that the secret, in my experience, was to do the recharge very slowly.
After adding the pound of table salt (I buy 5 lb. boxes of Morton's from the supermarket . . .very cheap) and capping the unit I SLOWLY run no more than a gallon of water through the unit to get the salt water distributed into the resin. I then turn the water off for about 20-30 minutes and let it sit. Finally I start the water flow again but slowly so the flow is no more than a 1/8-1/4 inch stream, checking the stream for saltiness every 15 minutes until no salty taste remains. This all takes over an hour but gives very good results, as advertised by ON THE GO.
Lee