Yahoo Message Number: 40306 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40306)
Hello All,
I have learn so much from all during this past year. So I want to share my Nitro fix. I've finally found a location near Palm Springs to fill all eight tires with nitrogen this Friday. I'll video the process and video our travel stops on the way to Albany. If you have an interest you can go on my blog www.corkydowning.com and get the reasons for my Nitro GENeration.
Thank You and look forward to seeing everyone in Albany.
Corky & Kathleen
00 Affinity 5679
Yahoo Message Number: 40312 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40312)
Hi Corky. What parameters are you using to measure the merits of N2 in your tires? Your web address was a dead end. Is it a blogspot?
Lee (in Moab, Utah)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40318 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40318)
Good Morning Lee,
Yes, this is just a blogspot. My paramenters are basic. The main one is stability in tire pressure for all types of terrain and weather conditions. This certainly results in improved tire wear and if I get a boost in fuel mileage, then that will be an extra bonus. After we put N2 in the Jeep tires, there was a noticable difference in the way it handled - sounds kind of weird, but if you try it, you'll see what I mean.
Thank You,
Corky & Kathleen, 00 Affinity #5769
Yahoo Message Number: 40321 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40321)
Corky's URL specified below for his blog had a "space" in it before the .com. His correct URL to learn about his Nitrogen in his tires decision is:
www.corkydowning.com
which gets redirected to:
http://corkydowning.wordpress.com/ (http://corkydowning.wordpress.com/)
Herb
Forum Moderator
in your tires? Your web address was a dead end. Is it a blogspot?
Nitrogen in my tires
Springs to
process
reasons
Yahoo Message Number: 40323 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40323)
Why should anyone pay good money to "put nitrogen" in their tires .... RV or otherwise?
What benefit do you think it provides?
Do you have any knowledge as to the Nitrogen content of the gas they put in your tires?
Do you realize that the ordinary air we breathe, the air in our earth's atmosphere, already contains 78% Nitrogen (along with 21% Oxygen, 1% trace gases)?
Joe
2004 Allure 36 #31031
" What is amazing this year is how many people have bought the fundamentally childish notion that, if you don't like the way things are going, the answer is to write a blank check for generic "change," empowering someone chosen not on the basis of any track record but on the basis of his skill with words. " - Thomas Sowell
Yahoo Message Number: 40324 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40324)
The largest benefit is realized by the person selling the nitrogen.... at least their wallet....
It does provide a benefit in racing applications where tire temps get stupid hot, but in day to day driving their is no measurable benefit.... the only nitrogen that is any better than compressed air is dried nitrogen. This does reduce the pressure increase as the tire warms up, due to no moisture, but this has no benefit for highway driving. Where a quarter pound of pressure can dramatically change the handling of a race car it does have benefit, but this is not on a motorhome or toad...
Dried nitrogen is used in a lot of airplane tires to prevent moisture freezing in the tire as the airplane goes up in altitude. Temp goes down 2 degrees C for every 1000 feet up....
Mikee
What benefit do you think it provides?
Yahoo Message Number: 40337 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40337)
I got a roof a/c unit acting up. I can turn the blower on and it stays running. If I move the switch to a/c or heat, it runs about 2 seconds and shuts down? Heat elements in unit, not a heat pump? Need suggest on what to look for.
Steve
95 Magna 5220
Yahoo Message Number: 40338 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40338)
It's more stable as Nitrogen's coefficient of expansion is .8, as compared to air's at 1.0. A 20% differential, but not that significant unless you run larger tires I would think. A greater benefit may be your tires won't oxidize on the inside as quickly too, so that is a good thing if you've got really expensive tubes. Helium and hydrogen in the air will slip out first as they are smaller molecules but account for well less than 1% of atmosphere air if I recall correctly. If you went through the typically thorough scuba course ~25 or 30 years ago before it became a mirror to check your breath, you might recall the combined gas law P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2. At altitude there is less squeeze on the outside of the tires so they expand like a balloon. Though, with temperature lapse rate for altitude the tire's internal gauge pressure should fall with the lower OAT and plenty of convection to cool them down mitigating some of the inflation for the lower outside atmospheric air pressure at altitude. Atmospheric air pressure has fallen almost 1/3 at 10,000'.
The Navy puts nitrogen in their tires and they need it as tires get darn hot on the deck and the 20% differential is significant for their extreme operating conditions and it's inert should they explode.
Consumers reports did a well known test where they filled many tires with 30psi, some with air and some with nitrogen. After a year the nitrogen tires lost 2.2 psi and the air tires lost 3.5 psi. Although the tires were left outside, this was more of a laboratory test and so the nitrogen proponents say the test is not fair. Personally I suspect a more real world test would have similar results. To me the difference seems significant but maybe too small to justify the expense.
A judgment call for sure. Of course there is always a chance that a test with larger coach tires would give different results but we can only speculate.
Jim Hill
2008 Tribute 260
81138
Yahoo Message Number: 40339 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40339)
IT'S PROBABLY A BAD MOTOR START CAPACITOR.
JB
ALLURE 31309
Yahoo Message Number: 40352 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40352)
I'm with Mikee. He pretty much hit the key points. I could add more to the "N2 claims," like how the bogus claims violate the laws of science, but that would just be piling on.
Lee (in Moab, Utah)
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40381 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40381)
To All:
IMHO is is not OK to make political statements in or out of tag lines.
Gil Bourdon
'05 Inspire
51322
Even if I agree with Mr Thomas Sowell
Yahoo Message Number: 40520 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40520)
"you might recall the combined gas law P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2. At altitude there is less squeeze on the outside of the tires so they expand like a balloon. Though, with temperature lapse rate for altitude the tire's internal gauge pressure should fall with the lower OAT and plenty of convection to cool them down mitigating some of the inflation for the lower outside atmospheric air pressure at altitude. Atmospheric air pressure has fallen almost 1/3 at 10,000'."
Assuming you were at sea level (1 bar) when filling your tires to maximum pressure, then at 10K' altitude, tire pressure would be 4.70 PSI higher.
4.7/120=0.039 change. Lower speeds at 10k' altitude may reduce pressure rise
due to heating for less net pressure rise than sea level highway driving.
Any where in US of A, RV tires filled at 5000' would vary less than 2.5 PSI due to altitude!
Can we not find better things to worry about? What if a black moose crosses your path? What if the U.S. senator with the #1 most liberal voting record in the Senate gets elected US President?
I have a new worry, a great blue heron thru my windshield. Yesterday a heron flew up from creek under bridge and did a U turn in air of the windshield. Not sure who was more frightened, me or big bird with yellow eyes. I know I was not expecting great blue heron from a creek in northern Indiana nor a U turn in flight. 5# of bird against a windshield moving at near 60 M/H would not have been good.
I cross that bridge twice daily, 6 days a week and always watch for deer and Canadian geese but nearly get a face full of glass & raw heron. I am still in wonder at leaving a daily view of assorted herons south of Houston, then nearly eating heron in northern IN.
--
God Bless You,
Eric Lee Elliott
870.613.1398 or 800.827.5038
PMB 6755, 167 Rainbow Drive, Livingston TX 77399-1067
eric@... (eric@...)http://eric-elliott.com (http://eric-elliott.com)
Yahoo Message Number: 40542 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40542)
"NOTE: Please refrain from posting Religious and /or Political comments." -from the forum guidelines.
George Harper
04 Allure
31093
expand
the tire's
the lower
pressure has
maximum
higher.
pressure rise
driving.
2.5 PSI
moose crosses
voting record
Yesterday a heron
from my side
bird with
creek in
windshield
deer and
am still
Houston, then
Yahoo Message Number: 40690 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40690)
Something to think about! I've found that Nitrogen filled tires do require less maintenance, but when you do need to top off the tires, where do you find the nitrogen fill station? The other issue is that the on board compressor will only provide 110 PSI? Front tires 120? During a recent trip while on the road I did top off the tires with air since the area did not have Nitrogen? After researching the merits of nitrogen, I needed to find a solution. I will be purchasing a small nitrogen tank (approx $100) and Regulator (approx $80) and will now be able to top off the front tires with nitrogen.
John Tanzi
05 Allure 31281
Yahoo Message Number: 40691 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40691)
Hi John. You said "I've found that Nitrogen filled tires do require less maintenance." My question - in what ways do Nitrogen filled tires require less maintenance?
I am also wondering why you need to "top off" your tires as tires without leaks probably only need air added once or twice a year . . . at least in my experiences.
Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40693 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40693)
Hello John,
I'm Corky Downing and started this subject a few weeks back. You can take a look at my blog, www.corkydowning.com (http://www.corkydowning.com/) for a review. My wife and I were not able to make the CC Rally, so we're sitting in Yucca Valley, CA fixing up and renting our daughters rental. :( Your correct in that Nitrogen filled tires require less maintenance. Large fleets have experienced a stated 7% savings in fuel and maintenance, but for individual RV owners like ourselves there are no studies to date.
There's some hype in every selection we make, but better stability in tire pressure and cooler running tires will provide safer running tires and a better foot print. You're right about finding a location, but that will change in the next 6 to 12 months. You can go to www.getnitrogen.org (http://www.getnitrogen.org/) and put in your zip code and find some locations. But, be careful as most of these locations can only fill auto tires and are in areas that may provide some interesting driving obstacles. As for the top off systems, well that's coming soon as the trucking fleets are asking the same question. Good luck in your search and don't hestiate to contact me.
Stay tuned to my blog for great updates! Corky & Kathleen 00 Affinity B&B, #5769
Yahoo Message Number: 40696 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40696)
The tire manufacturers place maximum cold inflation information on the sidewalls of their products and most RV/truck tires also have corresponding documents with tables that provide pressure recommendations versus the weight the tire is carrying. Most of us have read many times the importance of having our coaches weighed and the use of appropriate tire pressures. These tables and recommendations are established for air, not pure N2. If N2 is "more stable" as you claim this could lead to under inflation because the tables assume the expansion of air as the tire heats up from carrying the load. Under inflation is the worst scenario for a tire's life and the least desirable from a safety standpoint as well.
Your website does a pretty good job of indicating where people can go to start spending their money but the claim of major truck and/or bus fleets obtaining the results you mentioned are not backed up with objective documentation - or even any subjective documentation that I could find.
The claim of increasing tire life by slowing interior decay appears specious because even if that is the case the life of tires is reduced (ignoring mileage and tread wear) mainly by sunlight through the presence of ultraviolet radiation and the production of ozone. Neither gets inside a tire in any appreciable quantity as long as the seal with the wheel remains intact. A tires rots on the outside a whole lot faster than the inside so any interior benefit is moot.
I believe to date no tire manufacturer recommends the use of nitrogen in automotive/truck tires and I have not seen any recommendations for maximum cold pressure or tables for weight related pressures for pure N2. Until that happens and all questions, those that could affect the life of the tires and safety are answered, the hassle of using nitrogen seems a lot of effort and expense for questionable payback. And by answered I mean through objective, scientifically based studies. Otherwise everything is opinion, not fact, and I will continue to consider N2 just another attempt to separate me from my hard earned money with no benefits or specious ones at best.
Bob Handren
'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL
Yahoo Message Number: 40697 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40697)
Bob, you have some good points. I'm always open to new ideas and options but, like you, I have not seen any well documented examples of nitrogen making any significant difference in RV tires. True, some exotic cases exist in the aerospace and race car worlds, but none in the mundane world of RVers. I was looking at different web expert sources when your e-mail popped up.
Michelin says . . . "We have not been able to validate claims of nitrogen being as effective as clean, dry air,"? said Doug Jones, customer engineering support manager for Michelin North America.
Consumer Reports says " . . . tire manufacturers say that they already design tires to perform well with air inflation. And while nitrogen will do no harm, manufacturers say that they don't see the need to use nitrogen, which generally adds $5 or more per tire charge."Gee, if Michelin and Consumer's Reports says there is no difference then why should I buy, just because the Nitrogen sellers say I should??? But hey, that's America and you know what P.T. Barnum said . . .So it's evening and the RV owner check's the tires at, say 80 degrees, and gets 100 PSI. In the cool of the morning its 60 degrees out and the RVer checks again and finds the pressure is 96 PSI. WOW, better top off the tires . . . wrong, wrong, wrong. I can understand user/consumer confusion. Pressure of all gases goes up/down/back for every 10 degree change in air/tire temperture. All gases, either pure (nitrogen) or mixtures (air) follow the Gases Laws (based on the laws of nature). The Gas Laws say as temperature changes in a container of fixed size (an RV tire) the pressure will change. Temperature goes up - pressure goes up; Temperture goes down -pressure goes down. So if the tire is 10 degrees cooler the pressure will be down 2 PSI, but YOU DON'T HAVE A LEAK . . it's normal As the tire warms up the pressure will rise. Don't fiddle with topping off or leaking air out - a big mistake. So here is the challenge. Anyone with all nitrogen in their tires and a SmarTire set up please have the co-pilot record pressure numbers for every 10 degrees of tire temperture rise as a tire warms Since tires tend to warm up 40-60 degrees we'd expect pressure numbers over that kind of range. What did you find? Report back to the CC group . . . "The immutable law of nature are only questioned by salemen out to sell something." Lee Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Robert Handren wrote:From: Robert Handren Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Traveling to the CC Rally with Nitrogen in my tiresTo: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.comDate: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 7:31 PM The tire manufacturers place maximum cold inflation information on the sidewalls of their products and most RV/truck tires also have corresponding documents with tables that provide pressure recommendations versus the weight the tire is carrying. Most of us have read many times the importance of having our coaches weighed and the use of appropriate tire pressures. These tables and recommendations are established for air, not pure N2. If N2 is "more stable" as you claim this could lead to under inflation because the tables assume the expansion of air as the tire heats up from carrying the load. Under inflation is the worst scenario for a tire's life and the least desirable from a safety standpoint as well.
Your website does a pretty good job of indicating where people can go to start spending their money but the claim of major truck and/or bus fleets obtaining the results you mentioned are not backed up with objective documentation - or even any subjective documentation that I could find.
The claim of increasing tire life by slowing interior decay appears specious because even if that is the case the life of tires is reduced (ignoring mileage and tread wear) mainly by sunlight through the presence of ultraviolet radiation and the production of ozone. Neither gets inside a tire in any appreciable quantity as long as the seal with the wheel remains intact. A tires rots on the outside a whole lot faster than the inside so any interior benefit is moot.
I believe to date no tire manufacturer recommends the use of nitrogen in automotive/truck tires and I have not seen any recommendations for maximum cold pressure or tables for weight related pressures for pure N2. Until that happens and all questions, those that could affect the life of the tires and safety are answered, the hassle of using nitrogen seems a lot of effort and expense for questionable payback. And by answered I mean through objective, scientifically based studies. Otherwise everything is opinion, not fact, and I will continue to consider N2 just another attempt to separate me from my hard earned money with no benefits or specious ones at best.
Bob Handren'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178'00 JGCL--- On Thu, 8/28/08, Corky Downing wrote: From: Corky Downing Subject: Re: [Country-Coach- Owners] Re: Traveling to the CC Rally with Nitrogen in my tiresTo: Country-Coach- Owners@yahoogrou ps.comDate: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 5:15 PM Hello John,
I'm Corky Downing and started this subject a few weeks back. You can take a look at my blog, www.corkydowning. com for a review. My wife and I were not able to make the CC Rally, so we're sitting in Yucca Valley, CA fixing up and renting our daughters rental. :( Your correct in that Nitrogen filled tires require less maintenance. Large fleets have experienced a stated 7% savings in fuel and maintenance, but for individual RV owners like ourselves there are no studies to date.
There's some hype in every selection we make, but better stability in tire pressure and cooler running tires will provide safer running tires and a better foot print. You're right about finding a location, but that will change in the next 6 to 12 months. You can go to www.getnitrogen. org and put in your zip code and find some locations. But, be careful as most of these locations can only fill auto tires and are in areas that may provide some interesting driving obstacles. As for the top off systems, well that's coming soon as the trucking fleets are asking the same question. Good luck in your search and don't hestiate to contact me.
Stay tuned to my blog for great updates! Corky & Kathleen 00 Affinity B&B, #5769
Yahoo Message Number: 40701 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40701)
OK,
I have to. I have been solicited by Nitrogen salesmen more and more lately, so here are a couple of things to think about regarding Nitrogen.
If I am way off base here, please correct me (it has been a more than a few years since I had a Physics class) but I think their claim is FULL of holes.
The normal composition of Air is 78% to 79% Nitrogen, 1% inert gas, and 20% to 21% Oxygen. So, by using 100% Nitrogen, you are only displacing 21% to 22% of the total volume that was Oxygen/Inert.
Avogadro's Law states that equal volumes of mixed gases at the same temperature and pressure will always contain the same number of molecules.
So, you would have the same number of oxygen molecules as nitrogen molecules at any given temp or pressure. This is a constant rule for all gases that is not dependent of mass of a gases molecule.
We know that molecules of mixed gas have kinetic energy and create heat when colliding. So, is the Nitrogen salesmen's claim that Nitrogen has better thermodynamic proerties than Oxygen and your tires will run cooler? Not according to Charles's Law or Boyle's Law.
Or do they claim that the solubility properties of Nitrogen in water are better than Oxygen?
Why doesn't anyone fill their tires with Helium or Argon?
Thanks!
Steve.
Yahoo Message Number: 40702 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40702)
Steve, if I were your Physics teacher I'd give you an "A" I can think of 2 reasons Helium or Argon are not used - price and diffusion rates through permeable walls (like vehicle tires), which is high for Helium or Argon (think kid's Helium toy balloons). Interestingly since RV tires have much thicker walls than car tires the diffusion rate of oxygen of nitrogen is much less than car tires.I've gone a year without adding air to my RV tires . . .and just have to add a pound or two each spring. I can't say where the "topping off" fixation is coming from (I can only guess that the Rver checks the tires in the cool of the morning, so the temp is lower thus a lower pressure reading and tops off the tire but in reality is adding excessive air).
Speaking of diffusion rates, it is higher for oxygen than nitrogen. Finally, as to duffusion, etc. I hear that truckers are going more and more to carbon dioxide.
Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40703 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40703)
Lee Z says:
"So if the tire is 10 degrees cooler the pressure will be down 2 PSI, but YOU DON'T HAVE A LEAK . . it's normal As the tire warms up the pressure will rise. Don't fiddle with topping off or leaking air out - a big mistake."
So my question is, how do you accurately and consistently measure a pressure change of 2 PSI???
DougC
'94 CC Magna Caprice
Half Hummer Toad
Hughes. Net
Yahoo Message Number: 40709 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40709)
I use a good quality trucker pressure gauge that reads to the pound - the foot long ones with double heads costing $20-$30. I also have a digital pressure gauge. Since I also have a tire pressure monitoring system I will compare the pressure readouts of all three (2 gauges and monitoring system) on a tire to check for agreement. They all should be within a pound of each other. This exercise is to confirm that all the readouts are consistent and I've confirmed that I don't have a bad gauge, for example. Look for a day with the air temperature around 70 degrees (which is close to the typical temperature that reference pressures are quoted). I set my pressures usually in the early AM before the sun has gotten to shine on any of the tires and the coach has sat overnight. Using the tire pressures I've determined to be "right" for my tires (another story) I air up all the tires to my preselected pressures, using the trucker gauge to check pressure since it will get at all the valves ( I don't use braided extensions, which invariably/eventually leak . . . another story). This gives me all tires at my predetermined pressures per axle at close to 70 degrees. I do this every 3-6 months. Now, on a day to day basis, the tires will usually be hotter or cooler than 70 degrees. So its AM and we're getting ready to depart and the sun is not yet heating up some tires. It's a cool morning, say 50 degrees. I have two tests. First the tires on the same axle should all read within a pound of each other. Second all tires should read about 4 PSI lower (+/- a PSI) than my standard pressure that was set at 70 degrees. You can do this with your gauge or use readouts if you have a tire pressure monitoring system. If any tire is a few pounds outside of those parameters . . .I have a potential problem!That's my routine. Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Doug wrote:From: Doug Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Traveling to the CC Rally with Nitrogen in my tiresTo: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, August 29, 2008, 8:38 AM Lee Z says:
"So if the tire is 10 degrees cooler the pressure will be down 2 PSI, but YOU DON'T HAVE A LEAK . . it's normal As the tire warms up the pressure will rise. Don't fiddle with topping off or leaking air out - a big mistake."So my question is, how do you accurately and consistently measure a pressure change of 2 PSI???
DougC
'94 CC Magna Caprice
Half Hummer Toad
Hughes. Net
Yahoo Message Number: 40713 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40713)
Lee,
Maybe this will help. I've used a pressure to temperature chart in PDF format for some time now. Do not remember where I got it, but I just uploaded it to my site at
http://users.sisna.com/cebula/TirePressureTemperature.pdf (http://users.sisna.com/cebula/TirePressureTemperature.pdf)
The recommended manufacturer temperature is based on ambient 72 degrees.
Find your desired pressure at that temperature on the chart, use the current ambient temperature to find out what you should use for the current temperature condition, and have at it.
If someone would load it to the group site, that would be fine.
Mike Cebula
Doug wrote:
Yahoo Message Number: 40718 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40718)
Thanks for the great chart Mike - a keeper!. I made an Excel chart a few years ago that works like yours, but not as detailed. I find it fruitless/needless to work in tenths of a PSI so the nearest whole PSI is good and still very accurate and while 2 PSI per every 10 degree Fahrenheit is an approximation - it still is really close. If you go to the 100 PSI at 72 degrees column and then go up/down at 10 degree intervals you'll see a confirmation of what I'm saying. And, in the field 2 PSI for every 10 degrees is easy to remember.
Lee
Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz
2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
Yahoo Message Number: 40723 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40723)
I agree with everything except that Avogadro's number, 6.02 X 10E23 as I recall - kinda been a few decades since I used that - is the number of molecules in a mole of any particular pure gas. So a mole of Nitrogen, which would be expressed as a weight in grams not volume, will always contain that many atoms/molecules. Right?
If I am right a mixture of gases gets a bit more complicated versus the number of each element/molecules contained in it. Each different mixture would behave a little differently but always in accordance with the gas laws.
Man, am I taxing the old grey matter and I hope none of my old professors ever see this.
Bob Handren
'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL
Yahoo Message Number: 40726 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40726)
Bob, a cigar for you . . . rather than an "A"A mole of any substance consists of Avogadro's number of the constituent entities of that substance.
Entities are typically molecules but may also be atoms, ions, atomic particles, etc. Avogadro's number, approximately 6.02214
Yahoo Message Number: 40729 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40729)
OMG__Some dead horses just ask for another beating, so here goes!
Guys, Lets quantify this Nitrogen question in specific terms and take all the opinions and guesswork out of a solvable-Specific Gas Law physics equation for once and all. (Read this as - answer this for me Nitrogen salesman OR Where are you now "Corky Downing")
Corky, have you heard of Gas Stoichiometry?
The mathematics of this problem are pretty simple! but at the sake of being really obvious,
(1) One mole of gas = 22.4 L - So, How many moles of gas are in a 12RX22.5?( ___= M) (2) So then, how many Litres of gas are you actually displacing in a 12R X 22.5 Tire at 110 PSI when you replace the 21% Oxygen that was in that tire with 21% Nitrogen.(M-D = R__) ??? (3) Ok, Now that we know the volume of displacement, what does that amount weigh(-__) Take the weight of that nitrogen - (Minus)- the weight of the displaced Oxygen -(=__) (4) Ok, Next-- The Specific Gas Law relating to multiatomic or mixed gasses applies to gasses at pressure ( That means 1000 to 5000+ PSI) (5) The lower the pressure, then the lower the connection between intermolecular diversity and therefore the lower the kinetic energy potential. So, at 100PSI do you have anything to even measure(__)?
If you are going to be travelling from 100 degrees F at Sea Level to 37,000 feet and -10degrees F and then back to 100F at Sea Level and then back to 37,000 feet over and over--- maybe we have something to talk about here because of condensation and solubility of Oxygen in a liquid. Till then, are you actually paying money for AIR!
Thanks,
Steve.
Yahoo Message Number: 40744 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40744)
Steve B wrote:
"The normal composition of Air is 78% to 79% Nitrogen, 1% inert gas, and 20% to 21% Oxygen. So, by using 100% Nitrogen, you are only displacing 21% to 22% of the total volume that was Oxygen/Inert."
My question is: What happened to the carbon dioxide? Isn't that what global warming is all about? How do you eliminate from your tires? Maybe we could use the same method to end golbal warming.
DougC
'94 CC Magna Caprice
Half Hummer Toad
Hughes Net Dish
Yahoo Message Number: 40750 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Country-Coach-Owners/conversations/messages/40750)
WOW !! This has been interesting. To set the record straight.. No, I'm not selling nitrogen services or products. Yes, I have used it in my Caddy for over 2 years and our Jeep for over a year. Why? ~~ well, I got my new tires from Costco. I did not even pay attention or notice the green caps.
Has it worked? YES, as we have not had to add air as yet and we are in the high desert and travel through many different altitudes and temperatures. Was the ride better? didn't notice it in the Caddy, but yes for our Jeep.
I put N2 the RV and thought it might be a good idea to share the experience with the group as I thought that this was one of the purposes of this forum. Ya know? ~~ nothing ventured-nothing gained...but I am not into all of the negativity from just wanting to share some "real time " information and wil aquiesse to you all who want to continue "nitro-bashing" To each their own. Has the banter convinced me that this is NOT a good practice? NO, but has it convinced me that others do not want to share my experiences - YES.
---'nuff said.
Corky & Kathleen, 00 Affinity, B&B #5769