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Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #25
Yahoo Message Number: 90247
Hi Gary,

Good luck to you on your new paint job. Hopefully with the lighter colors you will not have the micro checking problem re-occur..
I too have been researching on the best way to approach the issues with my coach. I have the Black Tie edition of the Allure meaning I have a lot of black in my color scheme. The micro checking is primarily in all the black areas of my coach.
I have talked to Straight Line in Junction City and they gave me a rough quote of $30,000 to re-fiberglass the sides of my coach and re-paint with a light color scheme. They too could not guaranty the problem would not re-occur. Considering the rough market value of my coach is $85,000; not sure I want to do this. I don't thing my coach would be worth $115,000 after performing all the rework. Still pondering if I really want to do this ....

Rick

2004 Allure, 31018

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #26
Yahoo Message Number: 90248

Hi Rick.....

I too have the Allure Black Tie edition. 34' 2004 # 31094 with 44,000 miles. I also have the checking on the black portion and got a bid close to yours here in Southern California. I made the decision to just go and play............I will continue to do the necessary and preventative maintenance as to make the journey as comfortable as possible. The paint doesn't look all that bad after I do a real nice wax job. Looks pretty good from a far. Its just up close it makes you feel bad.

The guys at Colton Truck in Colton Ca. do me a real good job on catching things before they happen. She's running pretty good and I'm not going to concern myself with the paint job right now. I'm 62 years young and have a lot of things to see and do and parts and thing to maintain to be concerned with the paint . Besides! Its a 2004!

Well! Good Luck on you decision. I'm going to enjoy my rig...... She's running great.............( so far)
Scott 2004 Allure, # 31094 with 44,000 miles and counting

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #27
Yahoo Message Number: 90250
Hi Scott,

I will probably do like you have done; really can't justify the $30k to make it look pretty. I will probably just have the front end of the coach re-done because the 3M film has blistered very badly and the front cap is pretty "sunburned" too. I was told that they would have to sand the 3M film off because it is such in bad shape but someone on this board stated that should not have to be done. I will find out more when I visit Straight Line later this month.

Save travels,
Rick

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #28
Yahoo Message Number: 90252
I am curious about the 3M film. I don't like the stuff but I have it on this Allure. Mine is starting to look kind of cloudy.....barely but cloudy nevertheless. Should I consider having it removed while it is still in decent shape? I am told if it is removed properly, the paint under it will be in good shape.
I just installed Summit Armor on my coach and it really looks sharp. I tried to remove the small piece of 3M film from the face of the steps in prep to stick on the polished stainless. I used a heat gun and after about one hour was only able to get off a piece about 6" x 6". I gave up and scrubbed the 3M stuff with an abrasive pad and stuck the stainless over it.

Gary

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #29
Yahoo Message Number: 90253
Hi Gary,

I don't like the 3M shield either and in hindsight wished that I had not had in put on my coach. One of the folks on this board stated that it should come off with just using the heat gun. But I agree with you Gary, I have hard time believing they will be able to remove my heavily blistered 3M film with a heat gun.
My 2001 Affinity had the plexiglass shield and between the 3M film and plexiglass shield; I like the plexiglass shield better as long as it is the hinged shield that could be lifted up so you could clean the front of the coach.

I don't know of any new products out there for a front shield and I not familiar with Summit Armor (I will look it up on the internet right now).
I have attached a picture of the front end of my coach; you will have to look closely to see all the blistering.

Rick,

2004 Allure 31018

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking [1 Attachment]

Reply #30
Yahoo Message Number: 90254
I had my 3M professionally removed. Two men with heavy duty plastic scrapers and some solvent for the glue. No heat guns. About eight man hours and $600.

Paint underneath is magnificent.

George

'04 Inspire 51061 (for sale)

Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #31
Yahoo Message Number: 90255
Okay Per,

Let's try this one more time, and this is the last I will reply because I'm sure the other folks on this board are probably getting tired of this thread:

  • I get it ... you like Ron a lot and think we should support him in whatever he attempts to do (OMC, new CC, etc) because he is such a great guy.
  • You get that I see no benefit in a new CC
  • I use the term "team" loosely to mean someone at CC made the decision to use the inferior fiberglass. Someone at CC recommended to CC mgmt to use the inferior fiberglass.
  • Fact ... CC admitted that the fiberglass issue was a warranty issue and they were working on a resolution to the issue by pursuing a law suit with Dow Corning. This is where you are mixing apples and oranges with the gel coat issue. The gel coat/clear coat problems were probably not acknowledged by CC as warranty issue.
  • Fact ... CC broke a promise to us folks on the list to take care of the inferior fiberglass issue.
  • Fact ... Dow Corning settlement money was used for other things other than taking care of fiberglass warranty issue. We did not find about this until after CC had closed the doors. I assume the money went to trying to finish off coaches.
  • I do blame the Lees, Howards and CC for how they handled the inferior fiberglass issue ... rightly or wrongly ... my prerogative. This is where you, and possibly others, do not think I should hold or blame Ron for the issue.
  • The issue wasn't the only issue I had with my coach; just the biggest (I have two thick folders on the repairs I have done to this coach). I agree with Scott that the engineering wasn't that good on these coaches. Some of the specific systems are good but this really is a case of poor System Engineering. For those of you who don't know what system engineering is; it is the integration of all the systems for a given product. Making sure all the systems work well together and all are well integrated. I believe CC did not have or allow enough time for good systems engineering.
Can we now say we are done with this topic? Or do you want to continue? I vote that we are done and have exhausted this topic. You have your opinions; I have mine ... done.

Rick,

2004 Allure, 31018

Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #32
Yahoo Message Number: 90256
Since my wife & I are "newbies" at this, I appreciate the history of CC and I think the discussion should continue as long as facts are used. I will be watching to see where Mr. Lee, running CC will be in a year from now. I would like to see Mr. Lee implement a service desk (he may already have this), to help people find parts and service all over the world. This forum, is a huge, huge resource, I think someone that has the technical knowledge would only help, how much is "good will" worth these days? I hope I can meet some of you and spend the time I didn't when I purchased the coach. I feel like I have been handed the keys to a 787 and have found out how to turn it on.


Wally & Elta Mae

2007Allure 470 #31535


Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking [1 Attachment]

Reply #33
Yahoo Message Number: 90257
Well, its seems I have the 3M on the nose cone. It seems like you have found a solution and I am wondering what it was that motivated you to seek this solution. Also, who did the work for you?


Wally & Elta Mae

2007Allure 470 #31535


Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #34
Yahoo Message Number: 90259
Wally,

If you get on the internet and look up Country Coach, you will find they have a parts department and a service department. Maria wll answer the phone, and route you to the appropriate department. They have folks that will try to help you with issues over the phone, and the parts department will find the part you need if available. If you can make the trip up there, they will inspect your coach nose to tail for $200, and you can decide what repairs if any you want them to do. They are a great bunch of folks and they have parking with power where you can stay if needed.
Despite what others are trying to say on this forum, except for the name, current Country Coach is a different entity than the outfit that built our coaches, although pretty much everyone were employed by the "old" Coountry Coach. They do have a lot of experience working on coaches.

Per

95 Affinity 5259

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #35
Yahoo Message Number: 90262
Don't know if you're referring to me but if so...my 3M was in terrible condition with black mold spreading throughout. We have property at The Great Outdoors in Titusville, FL.

We have always used Dazzling Detailing to keep the exterior in tip top shape. They di the work right on the property, no mess whatsoever.

George

'04 Inspire 51061 (for sale)

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #36
Yahoo Message Number: 90268
Regarding micro-checking aka gassing, virtually all CC models were affected. I have seen bad checking in Magnas, Intrigues (my 2009), Allures, Inspires, etc. don't see enough Affinities, Lexas or Prevosts to comment. Every manufacturer has had the same problem, especially when painted a dark color.

Coriwelsh Intrigue 12314

Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #37
Yahoo Message Number: 90272
Best to all of you. And that is what I've always received from this board, good support in a common goal of enjoying our coaches.
IMO, while good dialog, I encourage anyone following this thread that are new to CC - to recognize that some of the comments were not accurate. (Not a ding, as I do not feel the posters were aware they were not accurate.)
ALL COACHES HAVE PROBLEMS. (Note the "Period" at the end of the sentence:)!)

ALL MANUFACTURERS HAVE PROBLEM MODELS.
I researched, I determined what my wife and I wanted and could afford. I considered 'then known' quality problems related to certain rigs. And I then balanced them against how I graded them in overall value (That included the whole, of good quality items and build, along with the known problems.) I then went shopping.

I ended up with a 2004 CC Allure, High Cascade (this models galley was what sold the inside of the coach to the wife), two slides, ISL370, Tag. Two years and 8 months ago, I paid a 'for then' fair price for the coach (not a killer deal, but a fair deal). However, we remained within our budget range, and bought two times the coach we felt we would have bought for retirement usage. (The bad times for some, worked out in our favor, this time...) This coach had several items I was aware were not too slick. I do not like a non-slide generator. I have about 25% of the paint in dark maroon, with I think due to the cooler temperatures in San Diego, minimal checking. (Those were the big ones, some minor items I knew about but just don't worry about.) Now, before I bought, I knew this. I also knew before I made and offer, that the radiator is steel. I also knew the dry PTO was not a factor on this specific rig.

I feel we all have some accountability ourselves when buying used rigs, to do our due diligence. I knew that CC was gone.
Some of you bought rigs new, Rick has the next Allure down the assembly line from ours. If I had bought new, and then CC went belly up, and even worse if I had a CC Extended Warranty now worth nothing - I'm very positive my feelings towards CC would be different. I bought older, and had no expectations of warranty coverage, so CC being one was a non factor.

Is my coach perfect? No. Do I find 'Why did they do that?' items - yes. But I still feel that most (not all) CC Models are in the upper quartile off of coaches as far as quality, and ownership satisfaction.

I want the new CC to do well. I wish them luck. Help my coaches value? Maybe, but don't care - as I'm keeping it:)!
I've learned so many good things from this board's members, that I want to stay focused on this board remaining the positive group of Brain Trust sharing owners that it has been for decades.

When negative items pop up about a specific model, great, share them. Especially if they can help prevent or forewarn another owner.
I like the ability, and use it as needed on other boards(seldom here), of ignoring a post that is just to complain or slam a person, business or product.

I also really respect open dialog between people, but the PM is sometimes a better way for 'converse' then a full board posting.
My best to all, stay safe - and enjoy ourselves!! And, many, many thanks to the current board members, and to so many that are now SOB, or no longer RV'ing, that have posted such great pictures and links - it is what makes this board a great place to come on CC, and other, items.

Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)


Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #39
Yahoo Message Number: 90278
I know Winnebago had issues as did Newmar. I believe Newmar's problems were on dark colors in the mid to late 2000's models. We looked at a 2006 Mountain Aire that had some of it. Gary From: Corina Welsh To: "Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] CC Models Affected with Micochecking
Regarding micro-checking aka gassing, virtually all CC models were affected. I have seen bad checking in Magnas, Intrigues (my 2009), Allures, Inspires, etc. don't see enough Affinities, Lexas or Prevosts to comment. Every manufacturer has had the same problem, especially when painted a dark color.

Coriwelsh Intrigue 12314

Re: Ron Lee

Reply #40
Yahoo Message Number: 90292
It seems to me that Ron Lee, if he wants to resurrect the Country Coach name and all of the good that we all find in our coaches, is going to have to take the bad as well. He and his brother (who really was the face of the company before the Howards ran it into the ground with the ridiculous Veranda concept) are synonymous with the brand and as, Rick has said, have to accept that they are going to be the brunt of deserved criticism. It really doesn't matter who was where when the sh*t hit the fan---the Lee name IS Country Coach. And, as has been said, a lot of people got screwed by Country Coach on the fiberglass issue. I got screwed to the tune of $11,000 when my radiator, PTO, and CAC all had to be replace on my '05 Inspire with only 28,000 miles on it...and I blame Country Coach for going cheap while still touting "The World's Finest Motorhomes". It doesn't really matter who the hell was running the place at a particular time..they were all trying to pinch pennies at the expense of the customer

If Ron Lee does not want to take criticism from some pretty justifiable sources, he should abandon the Country Coach name and call his new venture something else, e.g. Lee Enterprises. But, I somehow doubt that that is in his business plan. A company simply can't flip off a group of customers who paid well into six figures for a product, have an integral part of that product fail, assure those customers that it is a warranty issue, and then renege without suffering a significant blow to "good will". Ron Lee has to accept the bad if he wants the good....

Dave Glen

'06 Magna 6591

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #41
Yahoo Message Number: 90293
FYI, someone on this forum once said the end cap on their Prevost indeed had checking.

Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #42
Yahoo Message Number: 90297
I saw the comment about magnas and intrigues but the paint department at CC told me that the magnas and intrigues did not use the same fiberglass and did not have the same issues as the lower end coaches.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #43
Yahoo Message Number: 90300
I have had the opportunity to compare the temperature of a wide dark blue stripe on a white motor boat in Florida sun. The white is cool to the touch You cannot hold your hand on the blue stripe for more than a few seconds. I believe the 120 temp mentioned previously. Bob 06 intrigue. 12047. 55,000 miles and no paint issues

Re: Finally got coach back!

Reply #44
Yahoo Message Number: 90304
We actually have some minor mirochecking in a couple of the dark-painted areas of the coach, but it has been in the sun for most of it's life. It is nothing like the coaches I saw last month. Black areas were completely and severely microchecked, while the very light areas had virtually no microchecking. It definit3ely looks like it is heat-related. Not economical to refinish our coach, but we may have Doug Beaudry do some local touch-ups next year

Per

95 Affinity

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #45
Yahoo Message Number: 90320
We see quite a few Prevosts here, we also have an ex-marathon painter who worked under/with John Star for many years and still painting coaches. We've all seen some crazy things paint wise on them, but haven't seen the same checking caused from the gassing as on the manufactured coaches. Sure it's possible, but more likely is that the painter missed something or rushed something.

Jim

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #46
Yahoo Message Number: 90322
The checking occurs in the sheet fiberglass not the end caps that were hand built. Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

 

Re: CC Models Affected with Micochecking

Reply #47
Yahoo Message Number: 90376
Re: removing the 3M product.

Has anyone tried WD 40?. Looking at their Website, www.wd40.com, there are 2000 uses.

Michael

05 Inspire 51381