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cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with allison

Yahoo Message Number: 92198
Hi All

I have a couple of magnas I like with the difference being the power plant. I drove the cat today and it drove nice and I liked the exhaust brake and transmission behavior. Im getting mixed results on my internet searches. Can you guys chime in as to what you know or have heard. Do you think the price of the rig would be equal or would discounts apply for the cat? Thanks for your thoughts

Rod
Inspire

Re: cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with alli

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92202
Rod,

I have a C12 which CAT has told me has the same block as the C13 and C15. I can tell you I have had very good results with the C12. Mine has lots of power to push our 2002 Affinity 42' which is over 40,000 lbs. It also sounds really nice. I left the drivers window open yesterday so I could hear it when driving it a few miles.
Everything I have heard is that in general both CAT and Cummins motors are good. But specific models have some issues. You might google Cat C15 to see if any bad comments come back. I did that with C12 and found out they are used all over the World in various things like Amazon river ferry boats and so on. My motor has 114,000 miles on it and runs very well.
I would concentrate on the floor plan of the coaches and the condition of the motorhome.

Re: cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with alli

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92203
IMO, and it is not researched jus an immediate gut perception. I'd lean towards the ISX and Allison combo if all else was equal.
I like and respect CAT, and I believe they'll continue to support the C15 and cx31 well for you. But, the number of locations set up to handle RV's, especially with cx31's will be much less then the ISX and Allison combo.
Now, if I found a coach that everything else said 'This is it!' - I would not hesitate to buy it with the C15 and cx31.
Price? IMO, mostly a wash, with perhaps a slight higher amount for the Cummins Allison combo, due to perceptions that CAT has abandoned the OTR business. If buying from a dealer, I would probably use it as a bargaining ploy, and try to have them toss in a very good Extended Warranty as part of the deal. If from Private Owner, I would provide a quote on the Extended Warranty that you feel is appropriate, and ask that to be discounted off of the purchase price.
ISX's have had some problems in some years, so no matter what coach you get - any engine (Cummis or CAT) could have years with 'problem engines' to be aware of.
A check in on the IRV2 CAT section, might yield some input too. (And check the Cummins section for ISX of the years you are looking too:)!).
Best of luck on your research, and I will follow this thread to see those that have hands on experiences opinions.

Smitty

04 Allure 31017 (With the 'bit smaller' 8.9 ISL:)!)
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with alli

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92216
Smitty,

I own both CAT and Cummins shares. Caterpillar is twice the size of Cummins as a company. I suspect that there are more CAT repair facilities in the USA than Cummins. CAT may not be installing any OTR motors at this time, but that does not mean at all that they have stopped production of the C12-15 series motors. Those are in hundreds of thousands on installations Worldwide. But in absolutely no way am I disparaging in any way the Cummins line of motors in general. But it is certainly true both CAT and Cummins have made some great motors and some less great.
I do not agree that a person should expect to pay less for a CAT motored Country Coach. Point of fact is that the CAT is actually the more expensive motor. You can certainly tell that in the parts. CAT parts usually cost quite a bit more than comparable Cummins parts. But this is really a Chevy vs Ford discussion. Both companies produce good motors. It is way more important to make sure the motor model in your coach is not one that has problems than if it is CAT or Cummins. I did that before I bought our coach. I googled the C12 to make sure there were not a bunch of negative comments about it.
Bob & Barbara 2002 Country Coach Affinity 42' with C12 505 hp

Re: cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with alli

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92217
I did talk with cat today and he said that they have had a lot of problems with the SDP model c15 engines. He said the problems are with the pollution filters that cat went to and the engineers have not came up with a plan. He noted he has seen trucks need to come in a dozen times for repairs and each time it was for something different but it is always something on the pollution system. Even though he worked for cat for 28 years he would ask that I pass on any SDP c15. He also noted Cummins is having there fair share of problems with the emission engines mainly with the variable pitch turbo and the EGR system. It appears the cant keep the mechanics working with the soot from the engine.

Re: cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with alli

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92302
I am the original owner of an 08 Magna with CAT C15 and CAT tranny.
There was a problem with the regeneration system on my coach and I had to stop -recall- in 08 at CAT in Eugene and early 09 for three days at a CAT Tech-Center in LA area. I think in 09 CAT got enough experience with that new system, CAT changed the 2 DPF Filters and some parts of the regen system. I saw the invoice, CAT Warranty paid over 5k. From 09 till now --4 years = 30,000 miles-- without any problems. Visited CAT in Albuqueque NM for maintenance this summer --changing air-dryer cartridge-- CAT made also an engine update, everything was running like designed.
I like the agility of the engine and the mpg of 7,1, because the CAT tranny shifts in 6th gear at 1100 rpm and I am able to accelerate without downshifting because of the huge torque of 2000.
This summer I passed the Eisenhower tunnel in CO, going downhill up to 8% for 20 miles played with the engine brake between stage 2 and 3 at 4th gear and had never to touch the service brake. I am happy with that combo.
Bert 08 Magna 6909 with CAT C15, CAT tranny and CAT radiator
 

Re: cat c15 emision engine with cx31 trans VRS ISX cummins with alli

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92344
Hey Bert - Out of curiosity, what speed were you able to maintain towards the top, just before the level off into the tunnel? Was this East or West bound on I70? (And I know that driving conditions can result in needing to slow down for say slower big trucks. Do you recall if this took place, or did you have a pretty clean run?)
We just came back West towards the tunnel, about 6 weeks ago. Our 40', Tag, lighter then the Magna coach. With ISL370 was down in third gear most of the last mile of the climb and keeping 35-38MPH. It did hit 2nd and down to 30 or so MPH right at the very top 200' or so. (We were fully loaded with new full fuel tanks, and due to the National Park shut down, I had also topped the water tank in case we had to dry camp, so we were heavier then we normally travel. Small CRV with full fuel also as the toad.)
The ISL does us very well 98+% of the time, but it is sure working hard at a time like climbing the I70 grades:)! This is the CAPS era ISL, and I understand the higher boost spooling ISL400 with VGT does a bit better at pulling.
Just wondering how that BIG CAT took care of you, factoring the heavier coach and engine and trans (Assume the trans is heavier then the Allison MH3060? May not be...).
Oh, and our two stage Jake in High and in 3rd or 2nd (started in 2nd, moved up to 3rd part of the way down the long grade on the Western side of the tunnel. I did touch the service brakes a few times in 3rd, but was very pleased with how it went down the hill.

Appreciate info sharing!
Smitty

04 Allure 31010, 40' Tag, ISL370 CAPS
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)