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Cummins' Non-Response

Yahoo Message Number: 29658
Sounds like Cummins danced around Mike Cebula's ('95 magan - #5266) inquiry about Gasket & Seal Leakage with ULSD ..
Why would we expect anything different! ! ! ! LeeCasebeer x '01 Intrigue x ISC 8.3L x 350 HP @ #11219..........

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29659
Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cummins' Non-ResponseNothing like skirting the issue. I hope he write back and asks directly: does the new fuel cause a failure in the gaskets?

--
Sue,

'05, 42', Quad Slide Allure 31254

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29666
Jeez I know there are a lot of words in the Cummins e-mail but on the leak issue I thought it says that leaks happen, just not very frequently. To me that says go buy the $5 gasket, carry it in your tool kit, but don't go out and spend good and otherwise valuable $$$ having the gasket installed or the lift pump replaced until and when it leaks.

I did find the "small leak" reference amusing. It either leaks or it doesn't! My question is if it does leak, is it mission disabling? Or can you make it to the rapair shop without the tow truck?

Just my take on it.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

--- Sue bnsrv1@...> wrote:

Quote
Nothing like skirting the issue. I hope he write
back and asks directly:

does the new fuel cause a failure in the gaskets?

--
Sue,

?05, 42¹, Quad Slide Allure 31254

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29669
My concern is for those of us with the old mechanical lift pump. It's NOT rebuildable and its leak potential is more insidious. The problem is whether or not it is susceptible to internal seal shrinkage on the shaft thus allowing a leak down that mechanical arm into the block and down into the oil pan. Fuel in the oil sounds pretty bad to me and there's no way to SEE it happening. Only an increase in the oil level might give it away, unless it blows out the blowby tube. The only other way to tell is having oil analysis done more frequently. But, if the seals inside this type lift pump (actually called a 'fuel transfer pump' for this vintage) are not susceptible to the shrinkage because of the lack of aromatics, it would be reassuring.
Mike

'95 Magna #5266 with C8.3-300

Bob Amory wrote:

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29739
I drove my coach for several hundred miles with a leak and had no problems. Did have the pump replaced at Cummins in Houston, TX at a cost of $600. I did asked about just gasket replacement but was told that was not possible. Oh well, new pump cost was $260 and received a $75 discount.

Quote from: Bob Amory \[br\
]
Jeez I know there are a lot of words in the Cummins > e-mail but on the leak issue I thought it says that > leaks happen, just not very frequently. To me that > says go buy the $5 gasket, carry it in your tool kit, > but don't go out and spend good and otherwise valuable > $$$ having the gasket installed or the lift pump > replaced until and when it leaks.

I did find the "small leak" reference amusing. It > either leaks or it doesn't! My question is if it does > leak, is it mission disabling? Or can you make it to > the rapair shop without the tow truck? >

Just my take on it.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

--- Sue wrote:

> Nothing like skirting the issue. I hope he write > > back and asks directly:

> does the new fuel cause a failure in the gaskets? > >
> --
> Sue,

> ?05, 42¹, Quad Slide Allure 31254 > >
>
>
>

heater exchange motor repair

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29741
How to repair or replace fan motor in the heat exchanger in a 04 Allure.
The heat exchanger in my coach has a 24 VDC motor to move the air across the coils. The coach has a 12 VDC system. A 24 VDC system was used to reduce noise of the motor by reducing the speed by 1/2, per manufacture of the heat exchanger. The motors are wired for 3 speeds, using the medium speed. ( Red wire) The motors are made by DCM, in China # D-001-635. dimensions 3 by 3, 5/16 shaft by 3 inches. wiring is as follows. Black-ground. Yellow- low. Red-medium. Orange -high.
I was not able to find an exact 24 VDC motor. I checked with Graingers and 2 web base companies. I did find a 12 VDC motor that will work made by Fasco # DC 135. You can find this motor here http://www.emotorpro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3877 The motor is a double shaft , the one currently installed was a double shaft, the CCW end was cut off by manufacture of heater. If you purchase the Fasco motor you will also have to cut the CCW end shaft off.
The problem with the motors installed originally is lubrication to the bearings. There is a felt wick that dries up. I was able to remove the riveted bearing, clean up the shaft and re install the motor. I have made it so I can lub the motor now. It runs nice and quiet now.
Best way to replace motor is to just buy the entire cage assembly, C.C. part number 34178. $121.73 with 10% discount. Time to do the job is less than 90 minutes. Tools needed, Philips screw driver, wire cutters, 2 wire nuts. Access is thru the bottom of the base cabinet where the heat exchanger is installed. This is a job most anyone can do. Difficulty level, low.

John 04 Allure, 31060

Re: heater exchange motor repair

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29745
I just walked back to the parts dept. and checked on the pricing for the whole heat exchanger assmbly and the blower motor. These are factory parts. This is for an 04 Allure

Blower: $53.73

Whole assembly $175.17

John Knight Jr.

Re: heater exchange motor repair

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29747
John,

I have a 2004 Allure 31046 not too far in number from yours. Both the fan under the stove and the one under the front right side dash are noisy as in need lub. I took the lift out panel up under the stove and could only see about 1/3 of the assembly. The rest was buried under the framework that forms the cabinet. It is glued together and I could not see any way to get it apart sort of sawing it. The one under the dash I got at by taking out the small cabinet in front of the rider. It was somewhat more accessible but the two back cover screws were out of reach. Also I have only one fan speed. Did you mean that the motors are wired for 3 but only one is being used or do you actually have multi-speed heat exchanger fans?
When you say 'thru the bottom of the base cabinet' did you mean from under the coach? What am I missing as I often do. I would love to do something as they sound like they were going to quit any time.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: heater exchange motor repair

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29748
Don ,

You are in the right area in the galley,I took out the bottom shelf, mine has cloth on it. The unit entire unit is about 4 inches thick and 12 by 14 , or about, Mine had 3 screws holding it to the wood sub floor. after I removed them , which is not real easy, I was able to get the entire unit part way out of the opening, with the rubber hoses still attached. At this point there is about 6 machine screws to remove and you can get the motor and cage out as one unit. Anyway I was able to. My rear heater is under the bath sink. Same process for me.I was able to do it all from inside the coach.
Yes they are wired for 3 speeds, but factory only uses one speed. Low and High are not used. I am thinking of putting in a switch to be able to use them. Nice to know if mid speed burns out, you have 2 others to use.
If you have any more questions , write me direct and I will give you my phone # or send you pics of mine.

John 04 31060

Re: heater exchange motor repair

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29749
John , what parts department did you walk back to. If it is C.C. I talked to them yesterday and Ken said there was no motor avalible by them. If this motor is a 24 volt then that is good news. This is what I have been looking for. I do not want to replace the entire motor and fan unit.

Sue

I also in my findings, called Heater Craft and was quoted 100.00 . I like to go with C.C. for most of my parts, they have been so helpfull to me in the past. And I do not mind paying for that service. I have been in bussness for years and know what it is like to be quized and then have a customer go someplace else.

John Allure 31060

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29753
More info please. Engine type, year, etc.
Like I said before, the mechanical pump cost is $175 for the Cummins model from a Cummins shop. The gasket kit for all other pumps (electric with impeller pump) is $5 - $10. Maybe it would pay to keep a printout of the 06T5-18 bulletin in your coach to teach them what the repair really should be.

The file is available in the files section.

Mike

Egon Schlottmann wrote:

Re: heater exchange motor repair

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29757
Yes its 24v. I walked back to our parts dept. Drop me an e-mail tomorrow.

Quote from: Attack sub sailor\[br\
] >

John , what parts department did you walk back to. If it is C.C. I
talked to them yesterday and Ken said there was no motor avalible by them. If this motor is a 24 volt then that is good news. This is what I have been looking for. I do not want to replace the entire motor and fan unit.

Quote
>

Sue

I also in my findings, called Heater Craft and was quoted
100.00 . I like to go with C.C. for most of my parts, they have been so helpfull to me in the past. And I do not mind paying for that service. I have been in bussness for years and know what it is like to be quized and then have a customer go someplace else.

Quote
>

John Allure 31060

John Knight wrote:

I just walked back to the parts dept. and checked on the pricing

for

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29758
It sounds like some pump failures are mission disabling and some, like Egon's are not. In the "for what its worth department", the Cummins Rep, Tim Kelly, danced around the "is ULSD causing the lift pumps to fail" question at the Cummins PM semminar at Jekyll. He said incidence of failure was not high enough to implicate ULSD. But apparently some leaks at the lift pumps are occurring. Tim stated that in most cases fuel seepage would occur, which would not be mission disabling. Jim Green, who did have a mission disabling failure, brought his old lift pump to the seminar and replacing the seal sure looks like a viable repair. Replacement of the pump of course increases sales! Three symptoms of impending failure were identified: 1) unidentified hesitation of engine,
2) low fuel pressure fault from Silverleaf and most
indicative, 3) observing leaking fuel or constant diesel fuel odor in engine compartment. First and second symptoms could have other causes; in fact I learned that ULSD and to a greater extent bio-diesel will clean sludge out of your fuel tank. Said sludge will clog your filters causing 1 and 2 as well as engine shut-down.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

[quote author=Bob
Amory

>

> Jeez I know there are a lot of words in the
Cummins

> e-mail but on the leak issue I thought it says
that

> leaks happen, just not very frequently. To me that
> says go buy the $5 gasket, carry it in your tool
kit,

> but don't go out and spend good and otherwise
valuable

> $$$ having the gasket installed or the lift pump
> replaced until and when it leaks.
>

> I did find the "small leak" reference amusing. It
> either leaks or it doesn't! My question is if it
does

> leak, is it mission disabling? Or can you make it
to

> the rapair shop without the tow truck?
>

> Just my take on it.
>

> Bob Amory

> 2002 Allure 30760
>
>

> --- Sue wrote:
>

> > Nothing like skirting the issue. I hope he
write

> > back and asks directly:

> > does the new fuel cause a failure in the
gaskets?
> >
> > --
> > Sue,

> > ?05, 42¹, Quad Slide Allure 31254
> >
> >
> >
> >

Re: heater exchange motor repair

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29768
Quote
I was not able to find an exact 24 VDC motor. I checked with Graingers and >2 web base companies. I did find a >12 VDC motor that will work made by >Fasco # DC 135. You can find this motor here > >http://www.emotorpro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3877 >The motor is a double shaft , the one currently installed was a double >shaft, the CCW end was cut off by >manufacture of heater. If you purchase >the Fasco motor you will also have to cut the CCW end shaft off.
You may find what you are looking for here: http://www.ebmpapst.us/search.asp http://www.rdac.com/
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29801
Sorry, 330 ISC, 1999 Allure with 72000 miles. $175 for the pump, $29 for gaskets and threaded plugs, misc. $47.80 and $358 for labor.

Egon

'99 Allure #30321

Quote from: Mike Cebula \[br\
]
 

Re: Cummins' Non-Response

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29809
Found a non-Cummins replacement for the mechanical pump on eBay. Since this mechanical version is not rebuildable, this looks like a viable substitute. Also looks like it comes with the mounting gasket. Not sure what threaded plugs or misc. you needed.

PAI Part# 180105

Was listed for $75.95 plus $12.95 shipping.
I got a hit in the eBay archive by searching on "Cummins 6C Fuel Pump".
I can appreciate why the labor might be high. On mine the 'Ping' tank would have to be removed to get reasonable access from underneath. This could be a little dicey if the air check valve blew while you were up in there. The coach needs to be made safe so it won't settle down on you.
Replacing the pump itself looks rather simple.

Mike

'95 Magna #5266 on Gillig chassis.

Egon Schlottmann wrote: