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400 ISL Problems

Yahoo Message Number: 55208
Travelling down 101 today and my engine quit, all my idiot lights came on, and my gauges went to zero (like when I turn the key on to start it) and the engine restarted after a couple seconds. I looked at my Silverleaf and it said "ECM power failure" and "Low Fuel Pressure". I went about 5 more miles and the gauges (not the idiot lights)jumped again and I got another "Low Fuel Pressure". I came to a short incline and the engine had derated, didn't think I'd make it to the top. Starting down the other side, the "check engine" light came on and stayed on. I went up another hill, the engine seemed to run fine, but got another "Low Fuel Pressure" fault. I had fueled up about 100 miles before the problems started.I've been all over my coach looking for a Silverleaf manual or any manual for that matter that might tell me what the fault codes mean.(251 for the ECM and 94 for the fuel pressure).According to my manual, a check engine light usually means a cooling/radiator problem, but my fluid levels and temp were/are OK. My thoughts are, ECM going bad? Water in the fuel? Fuel pump? I'll start looking for a mobile repair tomorrow (San Luis Obispo area)but I thought I'd see if there were any suggestions or ideas here on my issues.

Dan 06 Intrigue 11936

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55211
The first thing I would do is change the fuel filters. Clogged fuel filters can produce all your symptoms.

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55213
This also sounds like the symptoms of a defective cam shaft or crank shaft sensor. As you described it restarted on its own in a few seconds. What they designed sensor to do is prevent the engine from continued operation when low on engine oil. It's not uncommon of a problem and is a very good way to save the engine. When the fault code showed a fuel code that's the normal method to stop your engine, by turning off the fuel supply.
This would be recorded in the ECM history fault code. Anyhow, your first RV trip in 2010 will be to a Cummins RV Park. Based on the fact you also just fueled. fuel filter change would be a good idea.
Another 2010 new year resolution for all CC owners....if the truck stop is dumping fuel (refilling there underground tanks) save yourself a problem..... go to the next truck stop.
AL

00 affinity #5851

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55215
Change the fuel filters first.

Chuck & Mary B

Red Bluff, Ca.

Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55217
Another vote for changing the fuel filters before other troubleshooting.

Brian

Still looking for next coach.

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55222
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have replacement filters with me and will change them. I talked to a Cummins tech in Paso Robles and he said it could also be a lift pump electrical problem. He seemed to think a lift pump would pose an intermittent problem whereas fuel filters probably would have shut the engine down. Thats beyond my knowledge base. My problem is I'm not leaving here until Saturday the 1st. Bad day to be stuck on the road. I think I may have to change the filters, break camp, and take it out for a drive.
Dan 06 Intrigue 11936

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55225
Dan- I checked my list of Cummins ISL codes (obtained from the internet so reliability is to be taken accordingly) and neither 94 nor 251 appear on the list.
I'm looking at the simultaneous gauge scramble and engine derate. One will not "cause" the other (i.e. gauges are individually driven off signals on the J1939 data bus), tho a mutual cause could easily be the problem. I'm suspecting ground or other common electrical failure. You'll need a tech to read the ECM's stored data; any shop w/Cummins Insite software & appropriate pigtail can read the ECM.
Mike

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55229
Mike, I have a mechanic friend in the trucking business that says the same thing. He feels it could be an electrical problem of some kind. He's trying to contact a friend of his in the business near me who has the computer to read the codes. I found some codes in my Cummins manual and, like you found, they didn't match my Silverleaf codes. Thanks for responding.
Dan 06 Intrigue 11936

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55233
Dan: I had similar problems in my '02 Intrigue with the 370 ISL, and after a trip to Cummins to verify "low fuel pressure" as the reason for the shut-down I had the fuel "polished". Seemed strange to me; but as I had not been a proponent of fuel additives I thought it was a possibility that there was algae or some kind of growth living in the tank. I had a guy out of San Diego come to my garage with a truck equipped with suction/return hoses, multiple types of filters and a good pump. One hose in each filler neck, a stiff wire on the suction hose to be able to manipulate the hose over the tank baffle, and about 45 minutes to polish 50-60 gallons. We changed the fuel filter and the fuel/water separator, started some fuel additive - and that was the last of the engine quitting problem. Went to Yellowstone/Grand Tetons this summer and never experienced a recurrence. Could be that you have contaminated fuel and a dirty tank.

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55235
Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: 400 ISL ProblemsThe 94 and 251 codes you are reading are probably SAE codes from Silverleaf and need to be translated into Cummins codes. Call Silverleaf for the conversion

Kevin

05 Intrigue
11886

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55237
Dan- call Silverleaf in OR and see if they have a translation for the codes. I had a problematic code on my 06 that wasn't a real Cummins code, and Silverleaf had an explanation of why it showed up on their computer as it did. Mike

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55239
Dan:

Your problem seriously is indicitive of a failing lift pump.
They fail 2 ways primarily. They suck air which causes intermitant engine performance or they leak fuel causing basically the same problem. I paid the price with total engine failure in a very remote area and had to be towed 75 miles and so forth..
If you can see fuel dripping off the bottom of the pump, down over the starter and your engine will still run go straight to the nearest responsible shop and get it fixed. Nominal replacement cost $500.00. All that for about $15.00 worth of rebuilding gaskets and "O" rings but most shops won't rebuild.
We have the Cumming Road relay readout system which told us the same message and we did not respect the seriousness, it bit us.
The pump only runs for a few seconds electrically prior to cranking over the engine but if the gaskets are leaking it still causes problems

James Green "Rollingghetto" Intrigue 11021

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55244
Dan: Sorry I forgot my manners and didn't identify myself when I responded to your e-mail and suggested fuel polishing.

Jim Westling
'06 Allure 31400
 

Re: 400 ISL Problems

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55270
Just wanted to thank everyone for all the suggestions concerning our engine problems. I found a certified Cummins tech through a friend and he came out yesterday afternoon. Before he got here I checked the ECM plug ins and they seemed fine to me. I also had changed my fuel filters. The first thing he did was check my battery terminals and the wing nut on the negative side was loose. I was stunned! I'm a nut about fluid levels, air pressure, and doing a pre-trip before I leave. I check my battery fluid all the time, but I've never checked how tight the wing nuts are on the cables. He was pretty sure bouncing down the road caused the system to lose ground, which caused the engine to shut down, which caused the low fuel pressure fault, etc. He plugged in his computer while idleing and everything looked fine. He did caution me however, a lift pump problem, and others for that matter, may not show up until it's under a load. When I leave here Saturday, I have about a 5 mile, 6% grade to pull. If something needs a "load" to fail, that hill should do the trick. Great group of folks in this forum, thanks again.
Dan 06 Intrigue 11936