Holding tank rinse system failure

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Holding tank rinse system failure

December 21, 2010, 07:46:52 pm

Request for help with a holding tank problem.
My black tank rinse system seems to have failed. It all of a sudden stopped working normally and is now only allowing a small amount of rinse water into the tank. Everything is normal with the grey water tank. This happened right after I put 3 tablespoons of dishwasher detergent into both tanks, filling them half full, and driving 360 miles, at which point I emptied both tanks. I did that to clean the tank level probes.
I attempted to remove the rinse probe but stopped when it appeared that I would have to first remove the entire 3' X 4' panel in the plumbing bay. I figured I should do some research before proceeding, but I found no reference to this problem in the files for this forum.
Does anybody out there have any suggestions on how to proceed with this? I am reasonably competent with a wrench and a screwdriver (not to mention a hammer), but i need some directions. Thanks.

Jim Biestek

'04 Intrigue 11783

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #1 – December 21, 2010, 08:19:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 66711

Couple of things to check and try. I assume you have checked for a filter screen on the intake and it is clean. One could try air pressure, less see, city water pressure of 40 to 60 lbs. so that much and a little more air pressure might knock stuff off the holes. Use a nozzle so you can pulse the air on and off. One could fill the tank and use Rid X type bacteria and let it set for some time. Sounds like the blockage is probably stuff dried on the outside of the nozzle. Another good soaking and use water pressure and air pressure while everything is good and wet, might do something. Another thing might be hot water under pressure and let it set with pressure on. With a little water moving, well what kind of a great degreaser cleaner could one force through the system? What I suspect happened is the layer of crude that has collected and lined the inside of the tank was worked loose by the detergent and some has settled and dried on the nozzle. Just need to find the right combination to loosing it again and flush it off.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #2 – December 21, 2010, 08:53:47 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 66714

Jim,

Did you pull off the access panel above your hydrohot on the passenger side of the plumbing bay and unscrew the black tank nozzle and clean that out. No need to fool around with the drivers side of the plumbing bay if it realted to your clean out nozzle.
I recently had what sounded like the same problem and just unhooked the clean out hose that goes across the coach to the other side and also cleaned out a bunch of coffe ground looking type stuff that was plugging the nozzle with a coat hanger, blew out the hose with air/water. Worked fine for the first time since buying the coach that way.

Dallas 2004 intrigue ovation C12 11688

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #3 – December 21, 2010, 09:00:11 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 66715

Hi--I have had the same symptom with our '01 Intrigue. I bought a flushing wand and did a serious flush-out of the black water tank. I then poured in a whole bottle (16 oz?) of TSP or something like that and NEARLY filled the tank. Do not overfill! I let it sit for several days and the enzyme action cleaned the spray ports in the flushing device. I have done this 2 times with success. The first time it plugged up, I replaced the sprayer--not an easy task!

Don Krahling

'01 Intrigue #11238

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #4 – December 21, 2010, 10:21:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 66717

Jim,

We have a "No Fuss Flush" nozzle on both the gray and black tanks. On two different occasions I've had to remove the nozzle on the black tank and clean it. It is mounted to the tank with 3 screws and is sealed with some type of caulking material. I use black butyl rubber tape when I put it back on the tank. On our Magna, I can get to it by removing the panel that surrounds the dump valve handles. You won't believe what a difference it makes with a clean nozzle. The 2 times mine plugged was after traveling with the black tank level too high. We now dump the tank before moving if the level is reading 75%.
Jim Myers
06 Magna 6652

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #5 – June 08, 2011, 09:49:09 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71581

Our black tank spray has also clogged. Does anyone know if the screen Dallas has on his Intrigue, is in the same location on the Allure? If not, is it via the 3' X 4' panel by the drain valves? (Just planning my approach to repair:)!) Thanks,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #6 – June 08, 2011, 10:07:50 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71585

Smitty,

I do not know if this will help, but we have had sensors not working and issues with a dirty black tank. Next time you dump and are ready to travel, add two toilet fills of water and dump a couple bags of ice cubes in the tank and while driving the cubes will bounce around your tank, and clean it . I hope this will help.

Stan Inspire 2005

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #7 – June 08, 2011, 12:37:25 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71592

My tank rinse nozzles can be accessed through the long panel above my hydronic heater where you can see both grey and black tanks. I changed my black tank rinse nozzle through there.

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #8 – June 08, 2011, 05:42:29 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71600

OK - So I did find the Grey/Black nozzles behind the access panel above the hydrohot tank. How the heck do you get them out to clean? Mine have 90 degree right angle fittings, with a hose like female coupling. The female fitting has three fins on it, and is so tight against the flange the right angle fitting goes thru (attached to tanks side) that you can't unscrew the female fitting. (Female fitting is on the small hose that comes from the driver side where you attach the water hose too for rinse. (The female fins, make contact with the flange.)
I took out the three screws holding the flange/right angle fitting to the side of the tank, and then used a putty knife to break the seal between them. I used 'some pressure' with the putty knife to try and pull the flange and angle away from side of the tank. (Figured it would pop out, and have the nozzle attached to tank side of the right angle fitting.). Some movement, but it did not come out. I did not want to put too much force on the fitting trying to pull/pry it out.
What am I missing? Is their a secret handshake required to remove the female hose coupling? Do I need a password or secret word to pull the flange/coupling/nozzle out of the tank?
I had a good night sleep, so sure can't blame being tired for not seeing how to do this:)!

TIA,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #9 – June 08, 2011, 08:24:06 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71609

Smitty,

I could not remove the factory black tank rinse in my Magna because CC in all their wisdom mounted the two tanks so close, there was no way to remove the 90 degree fitting. I plugged it off and put in a new rinse kit that is easily accessible.

Tom

Lifeline Batteries
Pressure Pro
97 Prevost

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #10 – June 09, 2011, 07:47:27 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71616

Jim

On my 06 Allure I removed the referenced access panel and found a lot of debris where the hose attaches. Also drilled a couple 1/8 in holes in the fitting and this really increased the flow of water based on a technical analysis of the sound of the rushing water.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #11 – June 09, 2011, 08:16:53 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71618

Smitty

It was about 4 years ago when I replaced my nozzle and as I recall, I removed the flange. I believe the flange is the nozzle and I had to use new sealant when replacing it. I do recall there wasn't a whole lot of room to work in there. The flange has to come out for cleaning. Have you tried twisting the flange back and forth? Can you get a pair of pliers, or small vice grips loosely attached to the female fitting/"wings?"

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #12 – June 09, 2011, 10:05:24 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71623

Thanks Larry - I did see some pictures of a combo flange and nozzle (looked close to the flange on our CC), so I concluded the flange/angle/nozzle were a one piece unit. I did twist the flange back and forth about 15 degrees (as much as the hose would allow). I did get the putty knife between the tank and the flange and pry from each side, with some movement. I did not pry or pull hard, as I did not want to break anything off inside of the tank. I'm thinking it is just a real tight interferance fit where the nozzle slides thru the tank hole. I'll try again on Saturday.
My goal is to remove the nozzle, soak it in CLR and other cleaners, and then drill our the hole sizes some. I also would like to remove the female hose from the right angle coupling, as I understand it may have a screen on the inside(?). Want to clean that too.

Tight working areas is correct...

Best,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #13 – June 09, 2011, 10:16:10 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71625

Has anyone tried blowing air into the fitting? I'm thinking of using the adapter I made up to winterize the water system.Just don't know what 60 to 100 pounds of pressure might do to the system.

George

'04 Inspire 51061

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #14 – June 09, 2011, 11:19:53 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71626

I have not tried that. The hose from the water/dumping side, to the nozzle going into the tank, is full of water on my black line. I hooked up my non pressure regulated home outside hose, about 75 psi, and it also did not work. I'd be concerned with blowing a hose, or coupling joint, with too much pressure. But, always looking forward to learning from others:)! Smitty,

04 Allure 31017

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #15 – June 09, 2011, 12:12:43 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71630

Smitty,

If you can locate where the pipe enters the tank, (mine was located on the opposite side of the service bay side) you just remove the pipe fitting (10 seconds by hand on my fitting)and then look to see if you can see what looks like coffee ground material stuffed into the hole. I think what happens is the black water migrates back through the tiny holes in the spray nozzle and dries out or accumulate to the point that high pressure water or air cannot work to push it back through the tiny holes in the nozzle. I had to take a coat hanger and pick the stuff out of the nozzle and then use a water hose to rinse the rest out.
Mine works great now. I would not try forced water or air into the clean out hose hookup. That would be counter productive. There has to be some access area that allows you to get to the place where the clean out nozzles are located. Mine is located right above the hydrohot bay.

Dallas 2004 intrigue ovation C12 11688

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #16 – June 09, 2011, 02:51:34 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71636

Smitty

I don't remember a screen?

Larry

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #17 – June 10, 2011, 08:49:38 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71662

Smitty

I just cleaned out the debris with a small screwdriver and drilled the 1/8 in holes and that seemed to fix the problem.
I had intended to buy a small electric drill driven pump and suck CLR through the nozzle to clear any build up but no longer feel the need to do so.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #18 – June 10, 2011, 09:41:04 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71667

To avoid any problems simply install a fine screen where thecity water hose connects to the flush.

Rich 2002 magna

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #19 – June 10, 2011, 11:43:11 am

Yahoo Message Number: 71673

Rich,

On the surface it would seem like the problem is being caused by the city water chocking the nozzle but in my case, that is not what is happening when the nozzles clogged in my 2004 sloshing of the fluid in the tanks is pushing stuff back into the nozzles and then dries out in the flush tubes at the nozzle end when the tank sits empty for while this dirty fluid dries out inside the nozzle and part of the tube. If you go for along time between running up the level in the tanks or flushing the tanks, this fluid cakes up and turns into these fine coffee ground type material that clogs the nozzles when you try to force it back out with a city water flush.
For all I know it could have been coffee grounds that made their way back into the nozzle but I doubt that because that does not explain how they got into the black water tank unless the previous owners dumped their gounds in there....not likely. I have had no problem with my nozzles since cleaning them out. They were totally plugged when I bought the coach and the previous owners could have cycled their tanks enough that this junk got backflushed through the small holes in the nozzle to cause this problem. I am pretty sure that they never flushed their tanks since maintence seemed to be one of their weaker points owning this coach before me.
But I would have to respecfully disagree that my nozzles were clogged by city water or a lack of a fine screen. If you see where the nozzles are located on my tanks, it is easy to see why a 3/4 full tank sloshing down the road would definately force fluid back into the flush tube at the point of the nozzle but not much further since the flush tube hooks up and over the top of the tank going over to the service bay.
This may not be the same issue for everyone but it certainly is not feasible to assume this type of junk is in city water.

Dallas 2004 intrigue ovation 11688

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #20 – June 10, 2011, 12:08:07 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71674

I'll have another go at pulling my black tank nozzle this weekjend. We did drive it with just over half full black tanks, then let it sit for two plus weeks before getting in to dump. So, could have been this. When I do flush, try to at each dumping, I usually run the water for a bit to be sure nothing is in the hose line. (Usually use my own hose for this, but if one is attached at the dumping station, I'll use it after letting the water run. I've seen 'junk', usually dirt, in the water a few times, so could see how dirt and 'junk' could be sent down the flush line to the nozzle. Don't think this was the case for me this time.
Will pry that baby out, still thnking it is just a tight interference fit, and clean and drill out the hole. I'll leave the Grey alone for now, as it has no problems.

Best,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure

Reply #21 – June 10, 2011, 07:38:42 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71681

Smitty

I my coach, I did not even consider trying to pry out or what ever it takes to break the seal and pull the nozzel because I was able to get a coat hanger into the nozzle and and pick up the junk in the nozzle. I think I even sprayed (a little) brake cleaner in the nozzle to disolve any thing I missed.
Becareful with the brake cleaner though. It is like acetone and will melt plastic but it has a high flash point and dries very quickly so not a problem.
Carburetor cleaner might also work. If you have compressed air you can blow that in to the nozzle too after you pick out what is ailing it.
There was no reason to try to take the nozzle out in my case. I also blew out the hose at the same time with air before hooking it back up to the nozzle.

Dallas 2004 intrigue c12 11688

Re: Holding tank rinse system failure (Dallas fix, fixed.)

Reply #22 – June 12, 2011, 05:21:09 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 71745

I did get to this about an hour ago. Dallas sent me a great PM of pictures, now also posted to the board. That really helped.
I did remove the three screws, and with a little 'pulling/prying' remove the nozzle from the tank. (It was the silcone around the nozzle, that was the 'tugging' to remain in place.) Dallas found that with a little bending, he could get his female hose coupling flanges to squeak by the flange. As he found no screen inline, I decided to not bother.
Holes cleaned, and I also drilled out the front nozzle holes to 5/64. (Others posted 1/8th, and if these clog again, I'll go that 3/64th larger.) I kept the angles of the holes the same.
I did nearly miss the nozzle side spray holes, back close to the base. They seemd OK, so just ran my needle thru them to make sure nothing was blocked.
I've never had a problem with the Grey, so left well enough alone. I was also advised, and will share this, to add a bit of silcone/goop, to the three mounting screws.
Thanks to you all for your various input, and may your Black tank nozzles flow well for you:)! Smitty

04 Allure 31017

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