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Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Yahoo Message Number: 73805
These forums are always a hot bed of problems. Over the past 5 years with our 2001 Intrigue we've had a good run with just a few problems. Now over the past 4-5 weeks we have had a number of issues. Slide stuck out and needing a rebuild. Toilet failing. Then the water hose to toilet failing. Ride height valve failing. Leak in the shower sky light. Thermostat replacement on engine. Flat inner dual tire. Plus a few other smaller issues.
My question is - How many on this forum have a motorhome that has NO issues. Or has everyone got issues and simple accepts them as a part of owning a complicated coach?
We wonder if the problems we have are a sign of an 'old' coach or just a run of bad timing/luck. And before anyone suggests we don't look after it, may I say we get lots of compliments on the condition of our coach.

Bruce

2001 Intrigue #11278

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73806
There are things that are broken and things that are about to break!!

Judy n Joe

98 Intrigue 10578

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73807
Your old body isn't the same as five years ago either. These need maintenance and repairs just as you need them.!!!!!

Max 98 Affinity #5487 hummin along like new(almost)

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73808
There is no such thing as a Motor Home with NO problems !! You cannot design and build a vehicle that takes everything you have and use in your home ( and that was design not to be moved and shaken ) and then drive down the road and shake the hell out of it and expect that you won't have some issues. My coach has been the coach with the least problems of the 4 I have owned , but there have bee, still, many , smaller issues. A boat falls in the same category. By the same token , a lot of the places we go, others ( cars etc ) don't have the luxury, of getting to the places that we do, and have all the comforts , and cleanliness of home. You have been lucky so far, the coach is no different than your home . Eventually you need to change the washer , drier , stove , roof etc. Hate to tell you this, but at the age of your coach, you will be getting more stuff as it wears out.

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73809
Cars, bikes, boats, lawn mowers, RV's, wives (I did not say that!) etc. Everything needs maintenance of some kind. I feel that many time Murphy's Law kicks in. Such as:
Quote
>I know people that do none, to very poor, maintenance of their items. And yet they seem to keep on trucking:)! >I know people that take great care of their gear - and have things that just go wrong.
IMO, just because one person has problems with something - does not always mean that another person will have the same problem. Sure, things will wear out with usage (Like tires, brakes, etc.), or age (tires, fluids, men, etc.) - so life usage is a variable.
I also understand that recalls do take place, because sometimes defects in engineering or production do exist. Those items are not what I was talking about. It is the items that have good engineering, and good build processes - that just sometimes go bad.

Stuff happens:)!
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73810
This is a great answer, and I don't think I've ever heard it before!!!!! Gives one a feeling of everything will be okay sooner or later! Thanks!

Mike and Mary
06 Inspire 51784

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73811
The biggest problem I'm dealing with right noe is the steel frame that my steps are bolted to are rusting away. my steps are falling of my coach. I'm told that its because CC did not prep the exposed metal properly.

Steve & Jane
1998 Intrigue
#10557

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73812
We always have something to repair at 16+ years of age.
These are machines with multiple materials fastened together subject to stresses of heat, cold, wet, lack of use, misuse, bad roads, UV exposure and normal wear and tear of driving and housekeeping.
But, around the 10 year mark we seemed to find a spate of things that needed repair or refurbishment that commanded our attention and created a bit of frustration.

That may be your situation.

We still believe we have a very well built coach and also get lots of campground compliments on its appearance.
Of course, its market value has shrunk significantly over the course of time.

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73816
We had no problems the first year............that we had to pay for....duh!
But, since the warranty expired (and CC, as well), we've managed to stay a bit under what one long-time RV'r told us a few years ago.....best figure $1/mi to operate your coach....fuel not included. That figure doesn't appear to be far off.

Roger Uhlich

'07 Intrigue 12170

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73842
Bruce

Most problems we have in the older coaches are electrical in nature, caused by loss of continuity, loss of ground, electrical connections not making good contact, etc....
Below is an article I downloaded from the old Country Coach site before the bankruptcy... It is a "copy and paste" of the article so please disregard the email address and phone number at the end...
Also, it lost some of its formatting during the "cut and paste", but the info is still useful...

buck

k7wn, '99magna5653, Cat C10, Allison HD4060, SantaFe toad

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Maintenance Tips for the Mature CC Motorcoach - Part 3

by Brian Keys

Well folks, this is the last in a series of maintenance articles for the older Country Coach that began in the spring issue with a look at filter maintenance, and continued in the summer issue with a close look at the DynoMax chassis.
This article will focus on the electrical gremlins that might take residence in your coach as the years pass by, and the steps you should take to eradicate them.
Before we continue, let us discuss a few notes of caution that you should be aware of when working on both low and high voltage electrical systems. They are as follows:
Low voltage electricity such as 12-volt or 24-volt does not present a risk of electrical shock. Battery and starter cables, however, carry a lot of current which can cause severe burns should a short circuit occur. Always remove the negative battery cable first and never allow the tool you are using to remove the positive cable to contact the chassis.
Batteries give off explosive gasses. You should not work in close proximity to the batteries if they are gassing for any reason. If it does become necessary, you can cover the top of the battery completely with a water-soaked towel to absorb the gasses being produced.
High voltage such as 120-volts or 240-volts can kill. Make absolutely sure that the circuit is not hot before you work on it. Don't assume that the circuit is dead because you have turned the switch off; use a test meter or similar to verify that the circuit is not powered.
Think twice before working on 240-volt systems such as the transfer switch or shore cord. A simple wiring error in this system can result in an 'open neutral' that will typically destroy much of the high voltage electrical equipment in your coach such as the inverter, microwave, entertainment systems, etcetera. For this reason, and to avoid shock hazard, never use a ?lollipop stick? or similar device to hold down the contacts of a failed transfer switch. It is a popular band-aid solution, but one that carries a lot of risk to both you and your coach.

With that out of the way, let's continue!

High Voltage Systems!

Transfer Switch. Does your transfer switch shake, rattle and roll? Hopefully not, but it might develop a hum or chatter that would indicate dust or other contamination is preventing the relays from closing fully. With the switch un-powered, try blowing out any dust with high pressure compressed air. If you have an older transfer switch that has a small diode and capacitor between the relays, the ideal solution is to replace the switch. Those of you who are familiar with soldering can source a new diode and capacitor from Radio Shack, but the relays will often have reached their service life in this transfer switch and will (according to Murphy's Law) fail at the most inconvenient time. Does your coach mysteriously drop just one 'leg' of power after about thirty minutes of running on generator power? Does this leg of power cycle off and on? If this is true, then the likely culprit is a broken coil winding in one of the transfer switch relays. The two ends of the break will make contact when the coil is cold, but will separate again as the coil heats up due to thermal expansion. This is a common symptom with old transfer switches and for this reason, I again recommend that an old transfer switch should be replaced, not repaired.
Voltage Monitor or 'GFI' Circuit Board. Do you regularly hear computer voices warning you that your shore cord polarity is reversed? If so, then you are probably very familiar with the location of the mute switch for the voice monitor system. To cure the actual problem will require replacement of the GFI Circuit Board. This board will probably have been damaged by a voltage spike on shore power and is typically located in the overhead dash above the passenger seat, or in the 'AC Feeder Panel' above the transfer switch.

Charging System

Battery Isolator. This item is located in the engine compartment and was used on coaches with a Gillig chassis to allow the alternator to charge both chassis and domestic batteries while keeping them electrically isolated from each other. If you have a Gillig coach and your alternator is only charging one set of batteries, then the battery isolator has most likely failed. Failed isolators will usually have some cracking around one or more of the battery cable studs. The battery isolator is located in the engine compartment on the passenger side.
Charge/Boost Relay. DynoMax coaches are equipped with a charge/boost relay in place of the aforementioned battery isolator. This relay connects the chassis and domestic batteries together when the engine is running so they both receive a charge. It also connects the two battery banks together when the 'battery boost' switch is operated to start your engine when the chassis batteries are low. If the alternator is only charging the chassis batteries and not the domestic batteries, then this component has likely failed and needs to be replaced.
Echo Charger. This neat device provides a trickle charge to your chassis batteries from the domestic batteries when the latter is at 13-volts or higher, and it serves to keep your chassis battery charged when your coach is connected to shore power. If you experience problems keeping your chassis batteries charged then check the in-line fuses on the echo charger's wiring harness. These fuses typically fail when the chassis battery positive cable comes into contact with the frame during chassis battery replacement.
Battery Cables. If you have a persistent charging problem that has so far defied all attempts at resolution, then take a close look at the battery cables. In particular, check to ensure the connections are clean and tight at the batteries, starter motor, alternator, and engine-to-frame ground cable.
Inverter Charging. Did your Heart Freedom25, or Freedom20 stop charging the domestic batteries for no apparent reason? If installed, does your Link2000 show that the domestic batteries are receiving a bulk charge when they are in fact discharging? If so, then the first thing to check is the 300-amp, or 250-amp fuse on the inverter's positive battery cable. A voltage check across this fuse that measures anything other than 0-volts would indicate that this fuse has failed. If the fuse checks out good, then try hitting the upper right corner of the inverter's front panel with a closed fist (not a hammer!) once or twice. If this restores the inverter to normal operation then the inverter should be serviced when convenient to clean an internal board connection.

Instrumentation

Gauge Accuracy. The accuracy of most analog gauges is limited, but if they are significantly misreading - especially when the dash gauge illumination is at full brightness - then you may have some undesirable resistance at the ground connections behind the dash. The easiest fix is to run an additional 12 AWG ground wire from the chassis framework beneath the dash to one of the daisy-chained ground terminals on the rear of the gauges. Does your coach have the digital gauge package or a digital dash where some of the gauges are not working? This dash instrumentation receives its information from two different sources via two separate twisted-pair 'network' cables. No readings on the tachometer, odometer, oil pressure and boost pressure gauges would indicate a communications failure with the ECM or Engine Computer Module. No readings on the remaining gauges such as speed, fuel level, and brake circuit pressure would indicate a communication problem with the 'DCU' or Data Collection Unit which is located in the steering compartment. In both cases, check the electrical connectors in the steering compartment for loose or corroded connections.
Ignition Solenoid. Should your coach develop intermittent problems where nothing happens when you turn on the ignition switch, the most likely culprit is the ignition solenoid. This is located behind the access panel in front of the passenger seat on earlier Allures and Intrigues, and on the Front Run Board in the steering compartment on earlier Magnas and Affinities. Tapping on the relay with the ignition turned on will usually get you home, but be aware that you may have to tap it a second time when the ignition is turned off for it to disengage.

Domestic Electrical Systems

Alarm Systems. Problems with alarm systems are not uncommon as they age, but how does one determine whether it is the alarm that has malfunctioned, or the much abused key fob? The trick here is to follow the manufacturer's instructions to set the alarm system into transmitter programming mode. If you hear the correct squeaks, squawks and chirps as described in the instructions, it is safe to assume that the alarm system is operational but your key fob transmitters are not. If the alarm system groans or gargles unexpectedly and it has good voltage at its power connection, then it should be replaced. It is usually more cost effective to replace an old alarm system with a new one after about thirty minutes of troubleshooting as opposed to spending three or four hours of diagnostic time trying to coax life into one that has long expired.
Poor Antenna Reception. If your TV picture is somewhat 'snowy' while others near you have great reception, then it is time to check for loose coaxial cable connections behind the TV itself, and also on the rear of the TV-Boost, and A/V switcher control. If this does not improve the reception, then the next item to check is the coaxial cable connections to the antenna itself. You might also consider cutting the cable back a little to install fresh connectors in place of those that may have corroded.
Entry Step. Do your entry steps go out when you close the door, go in when you open it, or exhibit other erratic behavior? If the steps are receiving good voltage, and the ground is clean and secure, then the first item to check is the door switch. If the steps seem to work properly as you cycle this switch in and out with your finger, then it probably needs to be adjusted. If not, then the switch should be tested with an ohm-meter for good continuity and replaced if necessary. In some cases, the entry step's 'brain' may be a little confused. But, I have some good news! Brain transplants are readily available and are easy to replace. If you replace an older 'white brain' with the newer 'black brain', you will also need to add a relay to change the logic of the entry door switch or, better still, replace the entry door switch also. The latter is generally not an easy task so be prepared for battle!
This is not by any means a complete collection of electrical gremlins, but hopefully the solutions presented here will shed some light on a mystery or two that may have plagued you for some time. If you discover some new ones, give our customer support department a call at 800-452-8015 and let us help you chase them down. You can also send us an email at support@....
* As published in the AUTUMN 2004 issue of Country Coach Destinations
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Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73847
Buck,

Thanks for the electrical trouble shooting guide. Some really good ideals there!!

Vick Welsh

99 Intrigue 10714

Re: Thing that work and things that don't

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73848
Buck,

Many thanks for posting this. Apparently it's one I missed when it was first published. A couple of the problems covered I've already dealt with--the hard way, but several others should save me significant trouble-shooting time.
Country Coach wasn't real big on documenting things prior to '92 (wiring diagrams are nonexistent) and I don't have many peers to go to for help when problems arise. Still I keep her (la Tortuga dorada) rolling down the road, receiving compliments wherever we go.

Jim Barber
'87 LTD, #4223
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Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73858
Buck,

Amazing how many of these I have already visited. I had the back issues handy and remembered reading some of the ideas that were published back then. They really helped in the troubleshooting.
There are always maintenenace issues with these coaches regardless og manufacturer. The older they get the more care they need. These are homes in motion and things break and wear out. No surprises, just new challenges to predict what might be next.
A few things I have discovered and corrected over the life of this 12 year old coach:
Freedom 20 control board connector cleaning worked a few time but decided to replace with a Magnum sine wave inverter.
Transfer switch intermittent and finally contacts were shot necessitating the whole switch replacement.
Had trouble with ground fault circuit tripping. Isolated each individual circuit and found the heating element in the water heater causing the problem.
After discovery of structural corrosion in battery compartment, quickly learned to keep under control by periodic battery removal and complete cleaning, treating and paint tocuch up in battery compartment.
Seam sealant does not last forever. Needs to be constantly checked and replaced when needed. I have the best result using what was originally used when the coach was built. There was a two part sealant article in the Destinations Magazine that gave all the different sealants used in the coach. You can find them in the files folder.
This is what is so great about this group. We all share the experiences and hopefully it will help someone else out with a similar problem.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73866
Outstanding! This is great, thanks Mike!! Saved it in my CC desktop folder.
Bill, 05 Intrigue, 11881

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73868
Bruce-

From my experience- things will break on your coach - regardless of age or make. Just the past month my AC vaccum pump failed then two days later my steps would not extend. Then I look up and noticed the slide awning was tearing (Texas sun rot).
That is why this forum is so great for information and advice. I like to fix what I can ( both for pride and pocketbook) but some things require a shop to fix- love the recommendations on where to go and who to avoid.

Robert Huffhines
2007 Tribute #81042

Quote
We had no problems the first year............that we had to pay for....duh!
But, since the warranty expired (and CC, as well), we've managed to stay a bit under what one long-time RV'r told us a few years ago.....best figure $1/mi to operate your coach....fuel not included. That figure doesn't appear to be far off.

Roger Uhlich

'07 Intrigue 12170

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73869
Thanks Buck.

I don't think we have any more or less issues than the 'average' owner. My frustration is with the period of few issues to a period when everything seemed to go wrong.

Murphy is alive and well.

Bruce

2001 Intrigue #11278

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73979
Bruce,

Rebuilt the toilet valve three years ago on our 01' Intrigue and I carry two spare ride valves. We have replaced both side gaskets, bedroom slide 8/17/11. So, yes we have spent money on our coach, but so far it was all planned work. We still are learning how to keep it running and working. HWH gang just reminded me, slids should be exercised. I lubed the glide blocks to ease the in-out process. RV Tech spent all day putting in the new gasket. His comment, "your slides are very tight". He also passed on, when you replace the gasket, one long piece that meets at the middle of the bottom.

Paul and Nancy Cummings,
01' Intrigue, 11309

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 73995
Quote
> My question is - How many on this forum have a motorhome that has NO issues. Or has everyone got issues and simple accepts them as a part of owning a complicated coach?

I have had many things go wrong with my coach. None of them specifically related to CC but components they use. It is complicated and some of the luxury would be gone if they weren't there. I don't know how much preventative can be done but I do get on it as soon as I notice a problem to prevent making it worse.
For example, my EMS went out and I had to wait 3 weeks for the part. I rewired the circuit panel to bypass the shedding function. I put a new board in and rewired it to have shedding again. I could have just left it out but I like the function it provides.

John

2007 Intrigue 52028 55,000 miles
 

Re: Thing that work and thinngs that don't

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 74001
John...

There is no such animal as a motorcoach with no issues...
Am sure I will get some "flack" for saying that some coaches have more issues than others, but that is the fact of the matter...
There are too many complicated "systems", appliances, etc. to preclude a "no issues" coach...
A motorcoach requires much more maintenance than a house... A house has none of the things that make it possible for us to rove around the country and be "comfortable" while we do it... Things like an engine, transmission, running gear, slides, gensets, air systems, etc.
So, you can expect things to break, wear-out, etc.... In fact, you will find that there is always something needing "fixing" or needing "maintenance" on a motorcoach...
Yep... there are folks that claim they have no problems with their coaches... They are the same folks that tell you they get 4 satellites on their dish when you can get only 2...

buck

k7wn, '99magna5653, Cat C10, Allison HD4060, SantaFe toad

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