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2002 Allure Overheating

Yahoo Message Number: 26466
All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has gotten me worrying about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash gauge (coach isn't fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 with 220 and slightly higher temps being registered during climbs. I have complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten any fixes (disel pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test the dash gauge and told me that it was about accurate, and if anything was registering slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.

We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge Parkway from Afton Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at mile 455, near Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine temp during this entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.

1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even on climbs stayed around 215. I was aggressively down shifting transmission to keep rpm between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During descents, with exhaust break activated and staying in same gear I used on the climb, the temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside air temp was in 40's on these two days.

2) Performance on the third day was similar until we reached Mt.
Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On the climb up to Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 ft) temp reached 245! We stopped several times at overlooks to let it cool but it did not go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon after resuming it would pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp below 200 by either downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting downhill in low gear and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the stops, I crawled under the coach and verified that the fan was operating. Whether it was operating at the proper speed or not I do not know, but it was moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the infamous "dust storm" problem that has been written about so much here. The coolant temp did not come down until we got all the way down into Waynesville and drove down the main street at 30 mph. Amazingly, the 3 mile 8% down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT get coolant temp below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper 50's to low 60's.

3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings of overtemp
conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm has never registered an overtemp error, but I can not remember any cases where temps got this high.

The lack of consistency in the behavior of this coach is driving me nuts. I have been operating on the principal that the dash gauge isnt reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning if there really is a problem. But I can't help wondering how many warning signs I can safely ignore.

Do any of the more experienced diesel operators out there have any ideas here? Sorry for the long post, but I felt all the symptoms were important.

Greatfully appreciate any suggestions.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26468
Hi Bob,

Consider looking at my may2006trip.xls under Files - it provides detailed temperature data over a long trip, a silverleaf is a must, I use the $395 box and a laptop on the dash for readout. It would help to know what engine you have and the coolant you are using.
Fred Kovol

---"amoryrf" wrote:

Quote
>

All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has gotten me

worrying

Quote
about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash gauge (coach isn't > fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 with 220 and > slightly higher temps being registered during climbs. I have > complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten any fixes (disel > pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test the dash gauge and > told me that it was about accurate, and if anything was registering > slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.

We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge Parkway from Afton > Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at mile 455, near > Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine temp during this > entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.

1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even on climbs stayed > around 215. I was aggressively down shifting transmission to keep

rpm

Quote
between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During descents, with exhaust > break activated and staying in same gear I used on the climb, the > temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside air temp was in 40's > on these two days.

2) Performance on the third day was similar until we reached Mt.
Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On the climb up to > Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 ft) temp reached

245!

Quote
We stopped several times at overlooks to let it cool but it did not > go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon after resuming it

would

Quote
pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp below 200 by either > downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting downhill in low gear > and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the stops, I crawled > under the coach and verified that the fan was operating. Whether it > was operating at the proper speed or not I do not know, but it was > moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the infamous "dust > storm" problem that has been written about so much here. The coolant > temp did not come down until we got all the way down into

Waynesville

Quote
and drove down the main street at 30 mph. Amazingly, the 3 mile 8% > down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT get coolant temp > below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper 50's to low 60's.

3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings of overtemp > conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm has never registered > an overtemp error, but I can not remember any cases where temps got > this high.
> The lack of consistency in the behavior of this coach is driving me > nuts. I have been operating on the principal that the dash gauge

isnt

Quote
reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning if there really

is

Quote
a problem. But I can't help wondering how many warning signs I can > safely ignore.

Do any of the more experienced diesel operators out there have any > ideas here? Sorry for the long post, but I felt all the symptoms

were

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26477
Mt. Bob, wonder if it would have been a much more enjoyable trip to have watched the scenery rather than the temp. gauge.
Life is so short, no need to get "heated up"...ha
No disrespect intended, just hoping to lighten things up a bit. augh.

Ray and Rue
05 Allure 31176

Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, "amoryrf" wrote:

Quote
>

All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has gotten me

worrying

Quote
about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash gauge (coach isn't > fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 with 220 and > slightly higher temps being registered during climbs. I have > complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten any fixes (disel > pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test the dash gauge

and

Quote
told me that it was about accurate, and if anything was registering > slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.

We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge Parkway from Afton > Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at mile 455, near > Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine temp during this > entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.

1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even on climbs stayed > around 215. I was aggressively down shifting transmission to keep

rpm

Quote
between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During descents, with exhaust > break activated and staying in same gear I used on the climb, the > temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside air temp was in

40's

Quote
on these two days.

2) Performance on the third day was similar until we reached Mt.
Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On the climb up to > Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 ft) temp reached

245!

Quote
We stopped several times at overlooks to let it cool but it did not > go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon after resuming it

would

Quote
pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp below 200 by

either

Quote
downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting downhill in low gear > and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the stops, I crawled > under the coach and verified that the fan was operating. Whether it > was operating at the proper speed or not I do not know, but it was > moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the infamous "dust > storm" problem that has been written about so much here. The

coolant

Quote
temp did not come down until we got all the way down into

Waynesville

Quote
and drove down the main street at 30 mph. Amazingly, the 3 mile 8% > down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT get coolant temp > below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper 50's to low 60's.

3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings of overtemp > conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm has never

registered

Quote
an overtemp error, but I can not remember any cases where temps got > this high.
> The lack of consistency in the behavior of this coach is driving me > nuts. I have been operating on the principal that the dash gauge

isnt

Quote
reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning if there really

is

Quote
a problem. But I can't help wondering how many warning signs I can > safely ignore.

Do any of the more experienced diesel operators out there have any > ideas here? Sorry for the long post, but I felt all the symptoms

were

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26480
Bob First, when they checked your gauge was it with the unit installed in your coach? Were they compairing your indicated reading with the ECM and if so, then you have no reason to doubt what you are seeing. The readings to 220 could be real but above that...... The ECM should have done something. Hopefully the warnings and shut down are working but if the temp indication is right something is crazy. Another issue, that I had, is where the sending unit is placed on the engine. Ours was right next to the exhaust manifold. Possible heat from the manifold, on hill climbs radiating to the sender. Manifolds get red hot. I moved mine to the position that Cat shows in the manual. On the head. The other thing to check is the fan control. Is it speeding up with rise in temp. You can hear our fan when climbing hills. Maybe it is just holding one speed, but then again that maybe the way it is set up. Need to get info on how it should work. I have heard of a radiator fin dirt issue causing high temps. Yes, CC tells us that the gauges are not accurate but spending thousands of dollars for our machines, that issue is total BS. Ned Inspire 51677

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26488
Bob:

Your concerns deserve concern.

I agree with fred Koval's comment about SilverLeaf from the standpoint of understanding the true information of what your engine is doing. I personally do not like silverleaf but prefer the Road Relay readout and manufactured for Cummins. We have been using it now for 3 years or more. It provides you with information direct from the ECM on the engine and the Controller of the transmission.

We had the dust storm and drove all the way from MD to Fort Meyers with the fan full open getting 7.5 MPG. Engine and trans temps were around 180 degrees. Now with a new controller I sense essentially low speed and ocasionally high but my milage is up to average 8.5MPG.

Now for the proof of the pudding. We just completed a around-the country trip 8,821 mile

Over mountains, through deserts, you name it. My engine never over 197 and the transmission hit 209 one time in bumper to bumper traffic because of an accident, usually running 203 to 205.

If the engine has been shut down a short time and the compartment allowded to get hot that heats up the air intake sensor which speeds up the fan. other than that I do not notice high speed fan. I did find , with airconditioning on under the same condition.... if you turn the air off the fan will go back to a lower speed.

I can tell you more about having changed the controller but not in this response. To disconnect it is not a long term fix as then the engine and transmission run too cool

James M Green Intrigue #11021 2000 "Rollingghetto" Cummins 350 ISC

Quote from: amoryrf

> All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has gotten me worrying > about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash gauge (coach isn't > fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 with 220 and > slightly higher temps being registered during climbs. I have > complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten any fixes (disel > pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test the dash gauge and > told me that it was about accurate, and if anything was registering

slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.

We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge Parkway from Afton > Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at mile 455, near > Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine temp during this > entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.

1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even on climbs stayed > around 215. I was aggressively down shifting transmission to keep rpm > between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During descents, with exhaust > break activated and staying in same gear I used on the climb, the > temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside air temp was in 40's > on these two days.

2) Performance on the third day was similar until we reached Mt.
Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On the climb up to > Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 ft) temp reached 245! > We stopped several times at overlooks to let it cool but it did not > go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon after resuming it would > pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp below 200 by either > downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting downhill in low gear > and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the stops, I crawled > under the coach and verified that the fan was operating. Whether it > was operating at the proper speed or not I do not know, but it was > moving air. Also, this coach is plauged
with the infamous "dust

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26493
Fred:

I have Cummins 350 ISC with Fleetguard Complete installed by Cummins and it has been serviced according to schedule. Will down load your spreadsheet.

Thanks Bob

Quote from: fredkovol
Hi Bob,

Consider looking at my may2006trip.xls under Files - it provides > detailed temperature data over a long trip, a silverleaf is a

must, I

Quote
use the $395 box and a laptop on the dash for readout. It would

help

Quote
to know what engine you have and the coolant you are using.
Fred Kovol

---"amoryrf" wrote:
>

> All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has gotten me > worrying

> about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash gauge (coach

isn't

Quote
fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 with 220 and > > slightly higher temps being registered during climbs. I have > > complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten any fixes

(disel

Quote
pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test the dash gauge

and

Quote
told me that it was about accurate, and if anything was

registering

Quote
slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.
>

> We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge Parkway from

Afton

Quote
Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at mile 455, near > > Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine temp during

this

Quote
entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.
>

> 1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even on climbs

stayed

Quote
around 215. I was aggressively down shifting transmission to

keep

Quote
rpm

> between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During descents, with

exhaust

Quote
break activated and staying in same gear I used on the climb,

the

Quote
temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside air temp was in

40's

Quote
on these two days.
>

> 2) Performance on the third day was similar until we reached Mt.
> Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On the climb up to > > Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 ft) temp reached > 245!

> We stopped several times at overlooks to let it cool but it did

not

Quote
go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon after resuming it > would

> pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp below 200 by

either

Quote
downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting downhill in low

gear

Quote
and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the stops, I

crawled

Quote
under the coach and verified that the fan was operating. Whether

it

Quote
was operating at the proper speed or not I do not know, but it

was

Quote
moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the infamous "dust > > storm" problem that has been written about so much here. The

coolant

Quote
temp did not come down until we got all the way down into > Waynesville

> and drove down the main street at 30 mph. Amazingly, the 3 mile

8%

Quote
down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT get coolant

temp

Quote
below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper 50's to low 60's.
>

> 3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings of overtemp > > conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm has never

registered

Quote
an overtemp error, but I can not remember any cases where temps

got

Quote
this high.
>

> The lack of consistency in the behavior of this coach is driving

me

Quote
nuts. I have been operating on the principal that the dash gauge > isnt

> reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning if there

really

Quote
is

> a problem. But I can't help wondering how many warning signs I

can

Quote
safely ignore.
>

> Do any of the more experienced diesel operators out there have

any

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26495
Ray and Rue

Do I ever agree!! Despite keeping one eye on temp gauge, fall color was fabulous; we pretty much hit it right on. I have been basically ignoring the high readings figuring the engine would tell me if there really is a problem. Its just that all these posts about burning up turbos make me nervous when the gauge gets pinned at upper limit.
Bob

2002 Allure 30760

Quote from: ragarue
Mt. Bob, wonder if it would have been a much more enjoyable > trip to have watched the scenery rather than the temp. gauge.
Life is so short, no need to get "heated up"...ha >

No disrespect intended, just hoping to lighten things up a bit.

augh.

Quote
Ray and Rue
05 Allure 31176

>Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, "amoryrf" wrote: > >

> All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has gotten me > worrying

> about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash gauge (coach

isn't

Quote
fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 with 220 and > > slightly higher temps being registered during climbs. I have > > complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten any fixes

(disel

Quote
pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test the dash gauge > and

> told me that it was about accurate, and if anything was

registering

Quote
slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.
>

> We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge Parkway from

Afton

Quote
Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at mile 455, near > > Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine temp during

this

Quote
entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.
>

> 1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even on climbs

stayed

Quote
around 215. I was aggressively down shifting transmission to

keep

Quote
rpm

> between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During descents, with

exhaust

Quote
break activated and staying in same gear I used on the climb,

the

Quote
temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside air temp was in > 40's

> on these two days.
>

> 2) Performance on the third day was similar until we reached Mt.
> Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On the climb up to > > Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 ft) temp reached > 245!

> We stopped several times at overlooks to let it cool but it did

not

Quote
go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon after resuming it > would

> pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp below 200 by > either

> downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting downhill in low

gear

Quote
and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the stops, I

crawled

Quote
under the coach and verified that the fan was operating. Whether

it

Quote
was operating at the proper speed or not I do not know, but it

was

Quote
moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the infamous "dust > > storm" problem that has been written about so much here. The > coolant

> temp did not come down until we got all the way down into > Waynesville

> and drove down the main street at 30 mph. Amazingly, the 3 mile

8%

Quote
down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT get coolant

temp

Quote
below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper 50's to low 60's.
>

> 3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings of overtemp > > conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm has never > registered

> an overtemp error, but I can not remember any cases where temps

got

Quote
this high.
>

> The lack of consistency in the behavior of this coach is driving

me

Quote
nuts. I have been operating on the principal that the dash gauge > isnt

> reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning if there

really

Quote
is

> a problem. But I can't help wondering how many warning signs I

can

Quote
safely ignore.
>

> Do any of the more experienced diesel operators out there have

any

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26497
Jim

Thanks for the info. Looks like Road Relay is going to be my next purchase. My fan controller was replaced within first year of service. I have printed out the test procedure that is in the files section under the dust storm heading, but I don't have the equipment, tools and mechanical confidence to accurately complete the test myself. Parts of the observed symptoms suggest fan controller isn't working, but if fan was running full time, engine would run cool, not hot. But then if you can't believe the gauge.... Brings me back to Road Relay!!
Bob

2002 Allure 30760

--- rollingghetto wrote:

Quote
Bob:

Your concerns deserve concern.

I agree with fred Koval's comment about SilverLeaf > from the standpoint

of understanding the true information of what your > engine is doing. I

personally do not like silverleaf but prefer the > Road Relay readout

and manufactured for Cummins. We have been using it > now for 3 years or

more. It provides you with information direct from > the ECM on the

engine and the Controller of the transmission.

We had the dust storm and drove all the way from MD > to Fort Meyers

with the fan full open getting 7.5 MPG. Engine and > trans temps were

around 180 degrees. Now with a new controller I > sense essentially low

speed and ocasionally high but my milage is up to > average 8.5MPG.

Now for the proof of the pudding. We just completed > a around-the

country trip 8,821 mile

Over mountains, through deserts, you name it. My > engine never over 197

and the transmission hit 209 one time in bumper to > bumper traffic

because of an accident, usually running 203 to 205.

If the engine has been shut down a short time and > the compartment

allowded to get hot that heats up the air intake > sensor which speeds

up the fan. other than that I do not notice high > speed fan. I did find

, with airconditioning on under the same > condition.... if you turn the

air off the fan will go back to a lower speed.

I can tell you more about having changed the > controller but not in

this response. To disconnect it is not a long term > fix as then the

engine and transmission run too cool >

James M Green Intrigue #11021 2000 "Rollingghetto" > Cummins 350 ISC

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26498
Ned

Thanks for the info. Had seen issue re sensor placement in regard to tranny temp, but not related to coolant temp. Will try to find. There is a test procedure in the files section that I have describing how to test the fan controller and its proper speeds.
But I don't have the equipment and probably the mechanical skill to actually do the test. Like you I have been more than a littly annoyed by the CC BS re the gauge. If it aint right why install it? Bad information is worse than no information IMHO.

Bob

2002 Allure 30760

[quote author="amoryrf"

>

> All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has > gotten me worrying

> about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash > gauge (coach isn't

> fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 > with 220 and

> slightly higher temps being registered during > climbs. I have

> complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten > any fixes (disel

> pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test > the dash gauge and

> told me that it was about accurate, and if > anything was registering

> slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.
>

> We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge > Parkway from Afton

> Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at > mile 455, near

> Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine > temp during this

> entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.
>

> 1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even > on climbs stayed

> around 215. I was aggressively down shifting > transmission to keep rpm

> between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During > descents, with exhaust

> break activated and staying in same gear I used on > the climb, the

> temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside > air temp was in 40's
> on these two days.
>

> 2) Performance on the third day was similar until > we reached Mt.

> Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On > the climb up to

> Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 > ft) temp reached 245!

> We stopped several times at overlooks to let it > cool but it did not

> go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon > after resuming it would

> pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp > below 200 by either

> downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting > downhill in low gear

> and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the > stops, I crawled

> under the coach and verified that the fan was > operating. Whether it

> was operating at the proper speed or not I do not > know, but it was

> moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the > infamous "dust

> storm" problem that has been written about so much > here. The coolant

> temp did not come down until we got all the way > down into Waynesville

> and drove down the main street at 30 mph.
Amazingly, the 3 mile 8%

> down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT > get coolant temp

> below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper > 50's to low 60's.
>

> 3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings > of overtemp

> conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm > has never registered

> an overtemp error, but I can not remember any > cases where temps got
> this high.
>

> The lack of consistency in the behavior of this > coach is driving me

> nuts. I have been operating on the principal that > the dash gauge isnt

> reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning > if there really is

> a problem. But I can't help wondering how many > warning signs I can
> safely ignore.
>

> Do any of the more experienced diesel operators > out there have any

> ideas here? Sorry for the long post, but I felt > all the symptoms were
> important.
>

> Greatfully appreciate any suggestions.
>

> Bob Amory

> 2002 Allure 30760
>[/quote]

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26499
Bob. I bought a new sending and engine temp gauge from CC. Prior to installing them, I bench checked the pair in boiling water. Guess what, right on 212. The set removed were tested also with the same results. If you have more info on the tranny sending unit change, please let me know. Same temp problem. The sending unit on the tranny is in the line to the cooler currently. Hotest temp. Ned Inspire 51677- In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, Bob Amory wrote:

Quote
Ned

Thanks for the info. Had seen issue re sensor > placement in regard to tranny temp, but not related to > coolant temp. Will try to find. There is a test > procedure in the files section that I have describing > how to test the fan controller and its proper speeds.
But I don't have the equipment and probably the > mechanical skill to actually do the test. Like you I > have been more than a littly annoyed by the CC BS re > the gauge. If it aint right why install it? Bad > information is worse than no information IMHO.

Bob

2002 Allure 30760

[quote author="amoryrf"
>]
> >

> > All the recent posts about Inspire overheating has > > gotten me worrying

> > about coolant temps in my 2002 Allure. The dash > > gauge (coach isn't

> > fitted with silverleaf) has always run 200 to 215 > > with 220 and

> > slightly higher temps being registered during > > climbs. I have

> > complained to CC and Cummins but have not gotten > > any fixes (disel

> > pushers always run hot). My cummins shop did test > > the dash gauge and

> > told me that it was about accurate, and if > > anything was registering

> > slightly cooler, yes cooler, than ecm.
> >

> > We just completed 450 mile drive of Blue Ridge > > Parkway from Afton

> > Mountain in Virginia to junction with US 19 at > > mile 455, near

> > Waynesville NC. I carefully monitored the engine > > temp during this

> > entire drive and the behavior is puzzeling.
> >

> > 1) for two days on various climbs, the temp even > > on climbs stayed

> > around 215. I was aggressively down shifting > > transmission to keep rpm

> > between 1250 and 1800 during climbs. During > > descents, with exhaust

> > break activated and staying in same gear I used on > > the climb, the

> > temp actually dropped to 180-185 range. Outside > > air temp was in 40's
> > on these two days.
> >

> > 2) Performance on the third day was similar until > > we reached Mt.

> > Pisgah when temps started to rise above 220. On > > the climb up to

> > Richland Balsam (highest point on parkway, 6050 > > ft) temp reached 245!

> > We stopped several times at overlooks to let it > > cool but it did not

> > go down fast and stayed around 200. Then soon > > after resuming it would

> > pop above 220 again. I was unable to reduce temp > > below 200 by either

> > downshifing and running higher rpm or coasting > > downhill in low gear

> > and allowing rpm to approach 2600. At one of the > > stops, I crawled

> > under the coach and verified that the fan was > > operating. Whether it

> > was operating at the proper speed or not I do not > > know, but it was

> > moving air. Also, this coach is plauged with the > > infamous "dust

> > storm" problem that has been written about so much > > here. The coolant

> > temp did not come down until we got all the way > > down into Waynesville

> > and drove down the main street at 30 mph.
> Amazingly, the 3 mile 8%

> > down grade on US 19 approaching Waynesville DIDNOT > > get coolant temp

> > below 200. Outside air temp was higher in upper > > 50's to low 60's.
> >

> > 3) At no point did I receive any engine warnings > > of overtemp

> > conditions, engine did not degrade, and the ecm > > has never registered

> > an overtemp error, but I can not remember any > > cases where temps got
> > this high.
> >

> > The lack of consistency in the behavior of this > > coach is driving me

> > nuts. I have been operating on the principal that > > the dash gauge isnt

> > reliable (per CC) and the ecm will provide warning > > if there really is

> > a problem. But I can't help wondering how many > > warning signs I can
> > safely ignore.
> >

> > Do any of the more experienced diesel operators > > out there have any

> > ideas here? Sorry for the long post, but I felt > > all the symptoms were
> > important.
> >

> > Greatfully appreciate any suggestions.
> >

> > Bob Amory

> > 2002 Allure 30760
> >
>
>
>

___
_

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26501
Ned, I have posted on this subject before. However, I have a new thought. Why not install a Truck Trans. Receiver and mount it to the drain like an auto trans. I have done this on a truck that pulled a family boat. Worked well and was very accurate. I just thought of that reading your post. I have checked out "Auto-Meter" they only go for cars and only temps up to 280. The other issue is to have the gauge run from say 140 to 280 in 10 degree increments so you can read it.

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26508
-James. Sounds like a great idea. Running the wiring might be a little challenge. I was even thinking of moving the current sending unit, which is right on the elbow coming out of the Allison heading for the cooler. I could even order another sending unit and mount it somehow. Would like to have a boost gauge also. Sounds like maybe I should just buy a Silverleaf. Ned Inspire 51677-- In Country-Coach- Owners@yahoogroups.com, "James Spivey" wrote:

Quote
>

Ned, I have posted on this subject before. However, I have a new thought.
Why not install a Truck Trans. Receiver and mount it to the drain like an > auto trans. I have done this on a truck that pulled a family boat. Worked > well and was very accurate. I just thought of that reading your post. I > have checked out "Auto-Meter" they only go for cars and only temps up to > 280. The other issue is to have the gauge run from say 140 to 280 in 10 > degree increments so you can read it.

_____

From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ned Herrmann > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:17 PM > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: 2002 Allure Overheating >

> Bob. I bought a new sending and engine temp gauge from CC. Prior to > installing

them, I bench checked the pair in boiling water. Guess what, right on 212.
The set

removed were tested also with the same results. If you have more info on the > tranny

sending unit change, please let me know. Same temp problem. The sending unit > on

the tranny is in the line to the cooler currently. Hotest temp. Ned Inspire > 51677- In

Country-Coach-

Owners@yahoogroups.com, Bob Amory wrote: > >
> Ned
>

> Thanks for the info. Had seen issue re sensor > > placement in regard to tranny temp, but not related to > > coolant temp. Will try to find. There is a test > > procedure in the files section that I have describing > > how to test the fan controller and its proper speeds.
> But I don't have the equipment and probably the > > mechanical skill to actually do the test. Like you I > > have been more than a littly annoyed by the CC BS re > > the gauge. If it aint right why install it? Bad > > information is worse than no information IMHO.
>
> Bob

> 2002 Allure 30760
>

> --- Ned Herrmann wrote:
>

> > Bob First, when they checked your gauge was it with > > > the unit installed in your coach? > > > Were they compairing your indicated reading with the > > > ECM and if so, then you have > > > no reason to doubt what you are seeing. The readings > > > to 220 could be real but above > > > that...... The ECM should have done something.
> > Hopefully the warnings and shut > > > down are working but if the temp indication is right > > > something is crazy. Another

> > issue, that I had, is where the sending unit is > > > placed on the engine. Ours was right > > > next to the exhaust manifold. Possible heat from the > > > manifold, on hill climbs

> > radiating to the sender. Manifolds get red hot. I > > > moved mine to the position that Cat > > > shows in the manual. On the head. The other thing to > > > check is the fan control. Is it > > > speeding up with rise in temp. You can hear our fan > > > when climbing hills. Maybe it is > > > just holding one speed, but then again that maybe > > > the way it is set up. Need to get > > > info on how it should work. I have heard of a > > > radiator fin dirt issue causing high > > > temps. Yes, CC tells us that the gauges are not > > > accurate but spending thousands of > > > dollars for our machines, that issue is total BS.
> > Ned Inspire 51677 --- In Country- > > > Coach-Owners@
yahoogroups.com,

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26517
With all the converstaions revolving around the temp gauges and the fan controller - has anyone experienced a bad thermostat to be the cause of overheating?

Mark P.

03 Allure #30916

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26520
Welcome back to the East Coast Mr. Green, I trust you had a good trip.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26521
--

Hello Bill Gabler:

Your posting allows me to respond covering several points which I hope does not offend any ears of the liustening audience.
The trip was fine. We started in Baltimore, rally in Bar Harbor then off to San Jose by way of Hamilton Ontario and Michigan Upper Penn. , over to Minot, into Spokane and down to Gary's. Saw the start of the fire near Palm Springs , and visited 4 places in Florida before returning home. Drove 8,881.0 miles and averaged 8.5 miles per gallon.
On a point made by Rogers Wright. He should not feal alone or left out on his problems. Our exhaust manifold also cracked between 3 and 4 as it is a bad design. BMW had similar problems before they changed the shape of the casting. Also Bill our lift pump failed as you may recall This is another accomplishment created , I am told by the changing to low sulfer fuel and should be expected by Cummins 350 ISC engine owners. It is the gasket between the electric pump and the casting it is mounted to. No the gasket is not for sale. My Cummins Road Relay readout warned me of "Low or Insuficient fuel pressure" but the engine started anyway. That time but not the last time. It was not nice being towed. By the way on that recall for a fan controller some may have had an incorrect unit put on during the recall as was my problem.
We hit 27 states and took 47 days. Millie and Ginger enjoyed the trip.
Thank you for asking.

James M. Green Intrigue #11021 2000 "Rollingghetto" Now 85,793 miles
- In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, gablerwh@... wrote:

Quote
>

Welcome back to the East Coast Mr. Green, I trust you had a good trip.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

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Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26524
Mark

my first idea was a not opening thermostat.
Checked it at CAT, opened correctly at 190 F. Was there for a while till the cooling liquid was mixed and starts climbing to 215 F and more. No typical noise from a fast running fan at 225 F. but also no warning lights. Message from CC: Stay cool, don't worry, before the engine explodes the computer will shut off the whole thing!! Great!

Hermann

2006 Inspire #51762

03 Allure #30916 schrieb:

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26527
Hermann. I have gone through the same program with Cat and CC. Can you get your coach to those kind of indicated temps without running it on the road? ( Fast idle ). If you can, then use some other type of temp indicator, like a digital meat thermo. You can check it with boiling water. Place on head or block and shield it. Run to see if things are even close to your dash gauge. IR heat gun is even better if you have that possibility. Then you will have a better idea of what is going on. Also, some writings back, they said, you can unplug your fan control and it will run all the time. Probably need to check with CC on that. Test drive to see if that changes things.
Ned Inspire 51677

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26536
Mr. Green said it best: "It was not nice being towed". This forum has immeasurably value in solving problems, not in patting each other on the back for making a good purchase. Ideally we are making a statement to the manufacturer(s) that we are collectively displeased about some issues. All coaches have problems, but when you examine the problems, many could have been avoided simply and cost-effectively in the first place, without serious inconvenience on our parts. Imagine how pleased you would be with your coach had you not been forced to deal with the many annoying issues that the manufacturer had to pay for anyway, at greater expense, under warranty.
A manufacturer, any manufacturer, must reduce costs until doing so wastes more money (warranty repairs, lost sales, etc.) than it saves. If they aren't doing that then the shareholders would and should complain mightily. That's their role in the great game of capitalism. Our roles however, as consumers, is to tell them when to stop. We are acting in their long-term benefit in discussing these issues openly and calmly, yet sending a clear signal that changes need to be made. We must not shirk this responsibility or the system will not work.
Please don't harass those who express discontent in the hopes for improvement.

Bill & Debbie in San Diego
 

Re: 2002 Allure Overheating

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 26543
Bill and Debbie,

You missed Mr. Greens point but I will not go into that any more. I'll simply tell you that Mr. Green owns my 2000 Intrigue, he fixes everything by himself including changing tires which I think is crazy, but you need to know Mr. Green to realize what a great individual he is and if he says something it is always true. Having said that I will also tell you that he does not speak up to often but when he does you are guaranteed it to be good information. I've known Mr Green since 1963, he owned a Pace Arrow when motor homes were just a dream to all of us. He has also had several German cars and he will be the first to tell you that they are not trouble free. Well just so I don't embarrass Jim any further, I'll quite now but I will say that Jim has never come back to me and said I sold him a lousy CC. Now I'll go back to sitting in my Magna. Take care everyone and once again welcome back Jim.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425