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GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Yahoo Message Number: 29958
In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at 3:19am - three times. We had the coach in service at Desert West on March 19-20 and they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was fine on the night of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and 23rd after returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits (wall plugs) tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we have an air filter that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet wakes us up. On the 23rd I reset the clock on the inverter thinking it might be a problem, it had gone to zero when they disconnected the batteries. Everything was fine after that until this morning at 3:19am when they tripped again. None of the other circuits seem to be affected although it appears the floor heat GFI tripped this morning also.

Any ideas? I'll be calling tech support later when they open.
PS We've been parked in this site in Tucson since November and haven't had the problem until the last week.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29959
Sounds like an electrical device that draws a lot of power, is programmed to come on at 3:19. Could it be the coffee pot or something?

Larry 2003 Allure 30856

Quote from: Bob Stephens
>

In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at 3:19am - three > times. We had the coach in service at Desert West on March 19-20

and

Quote
they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was fine on the

night

Quote
of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and 23rd after > returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits (wall plugs) > tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we have an air filter > that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet wakes us up. On

the

Quote
23rd I reset the clock on the inverter thinking it might be a

problem,

Quote
it had gone to zero when they disconnected the batteries.

Everything

Quote
was fine after that until this morning at 3:19am when they tripped > again. None of the other circuits seem to be affected although it > appears the floor heat GFI tripped this morning also.

Any ideas? I'll be calling tech support later when they open.

PS We've been parked in this site in Tucson since November and

haven't

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29960
I'd guess some scheduled operation at the resort - irrigation systems starting up perhaps - are messing with your ground. Doubt that it has anything to do with your coach.

Bill & Debbie in San Diego

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29964
It doesn't need to be something which draws a lot of power, since GFI is not looking for that. GFI looks for 'Ground Faults' which can be actual problems, or something 'harmless' (they warn against attaching long extention cords to them).

Is there anything in your coach which is set to do something at 3:19 am?

You could try unplugging everything unpluggable and turning off everything remaining which is turn offable, that you don't NEED. If it still fails at the same time, you could isolate it to your coach or something in the power source by *shudder* waking up at 3am, unplugging from shore power, starting the generator, and seeing what happens at 3:19. If nothing, then odds are good it is something coming in from outside.

If so, I'm not quite sure what you could do about it. Perhaps add/upgrade your surge protection although I'm not sure that would have much affect. Perhaps ask the park owners what they do at 3:19am.

If the problem is internal, it should be one of only a few devices left. If you can, try powering each with a non-GFI outlet. When you find the culprit, fix, replace or reprogram as appropriate.

John 04 Inspire 51078

Quote from: Larry Feather
>

Sounds like an electrical device that draws a lot of power, is > programmed to come on at 3:19. Could it be the coffee pot or > something?

Larry 2003 Allure 30856

[quote author=Bob Stephens"

>

> In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at 3:19am - three > > times. We had the coach in service at Desert West on March 19-20 > and

> they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was fine on the > night

> of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and 23rd after > > returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits (wall plugs) > > tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we have an air

filter

Quote
that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet wakes us up.

On

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29965
Bob,

I have a 2004 Allure and the floor heat is not on a GFI. It is a normal 15 amp breaker. Is a GFI for the floor heat something new in 2005. Reason I ask is that if the floor heat is not a GFI then the fact that it also is tripping could lead the trouble shooting in a different direction. Just wondering.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29972
Bob:

Man I love these types of problems, especially when they happen to someone else! My wife says I have enough motor home problems of my own to take up my time, but I can't help myself!!

I have read some of the replies you have gotten so far and I think some of the info is leading you in the wrong dirction.

GFCI's (aka residual current devices) trip when there is a current imbalance between the hot wire and ground wire. If electricity is flowing correctly, the current in these two wires is essentially zero. If it is not, it indicates current is "leaking" to ground some other way. The devices usually trip if the current differential is as low as 4 to 6 milliamps for 25-40 milliseconds. The device is designed to prevent electocution should a person come in contact with the hot wire, allowing the current to flow though his or her body to ground. So this has nothing to do with high amperage loads akin to normal circuit breakers.
Also the GFCI only responds to downstream leakages so I think it is highly unlikely if not impossible that the culprit is outside your ooach. So I think there is some electical device in your coach that is causing a current imbalance at exactly 3:19 f/e the coffee maker. I'd be thinking along those lines and disconneting as many things as you can to try to issolate the problem.

These devices do fail from time to time, but a) yours is new and b) the fact that it happens exactly and only at 3:19 tends to indicate something else. But if all else fails they are cheap and easy to replace if you don't mind playing in the electricity! I had to replace one in my coach because the electrical assembly crew at CC lacks a very basic electrical skill - making sure screws are tight. Just be sure shore power if off AND inverter is off and not supplying 110 AC.

Good luck and let us know what the culprit was.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

--- Bob Stephens bob@...> wrote:

Quote
In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at
3:19am - three

times. We had the coach in service at Desert West
on March 19-20 and

they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was
fine on the night

of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and
23rd after

returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits
(wall plugs)

tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we
have an air filter

that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet
wakes us up. On the

23rd I reset the clock on the inverter thinking it
might be a problem,

it had gone to zero when they disconnected the
batteries. Everything

was fine after that until this morning at 3:19am
when they tripped

again. None of the other circuits seem to be
affected although it

appears the floor heat GFI tripped this morning
also.

Any ideas? I'll be calling tech support later when
they open.

PS We've been parked in this site in Tucson since
November and haven't

had the problem until the last week.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29973
Bob:

Man I love these types of problems, especially when they happen to someone else! My wife says I have enough motor home problems of my own to take up my time, but I can't help myself!!

I have read some of the replies you have gotten so far and I think some of the info is leading you in the wrong dirction.

GFCI's (aka residual current devices) trip when there is a current imbalance between the hot wire and ground wire. If electricity is flowing correctly, the current in these two wires is essentially zero. If it is not, it indicates current is "leaking" to ground some other way. The devices usually trip if the current differential is as low as 4 to 6 milliamps for 25-40 milliseconds. The device is designed to prevent electocution should a person come in contact with the hot wire, allowing the current to flow though his or her body to ground. So this has nothing to do with high amperage loads akin to normal circuit breakers.
Also the GFCI only responds to downstream leakages so I think it is highly unlikely if not impossible that the culprit is outside your ooach. So I think there is some electical device in your coach that is causing a current imbalance at exactly 3:19 f/e the coffee maker. I'd be thinking along those lines and disconneting as many things as you can to try to issolate the problem.

These devices do fail from time to time, but a) yours is new and b) the fact that it happens exactly and only at 3:19 tends to indicate something else. But if all else fails they are cheap and easy to replace if you don't mind playing in the electricity! I had to replace one in my coach because the electrical assembly crew at CC lacks a very basic electrical skill - making sure screws are tight. Just be sure shore power if off AND inverter is off and not supplying 110 AC.

Good luck and let us know what the culprit was.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

--- Bob Stephens bob@...> wrote:

Quote
In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at
3:19am - three

times. We had the coach in service at Desert West
on March 19-20 and

they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was
fine on the night

of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and
23rd after

returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits
(wall plugs)

tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we
have an air filter

that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet
wakes us up. On the

23rd I reset the clock on the inverter thinking it
might be a problem,

it had gone to zero when they disconnected the
batteries. Everything

was fine after that until this morning at 3:19am
when they tripped

again. None of the other circuits seem to be
affected although it

appears the floor heat GFI tripped this morning
also.

Any ideas? I'll be calling tech support later when
they open.

PS We've been parked in this site in Tucson since
November and haven't

had the problem until the last week.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29975
Don, our floor breaker in the breaker box is a standard non-GFI, however, the floor thermostat in our coach has a built in GFI that trips everytime my wife starts the washing machine. This is supposedly due to a bad GFI circuit in the thermostat.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Quote from: Don Seager
Bob,

I have a 2004 Allure and the floor heat is not on a GFI. It is a
normal 15 amp breaker. Is a GFI for the floor heat something new in 2005. Reason I ask is that if the floor heat is not a GFI then the fact that it also is tripping could lead the trouble shooting in a different direction. Just wondering.

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29977
I understand your explanation but it doesn't necessarily explain why both breakers would trip simultaneously. I'm going to unplug the coffee maker tonight and also check to make sure both circuits aren't interconnected like some where in our last house.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Quote from: Bob Amory \[br\
]
Bob:

Man I love these types of problems, especially when > they happen to someone else! My wife says I have > enough motor home problems of my own to take up my > time, but I can't help myself!!

I have read some of the replies you have gotten so far > and I think some of the info is leading you in the > wrong dirction.

GFCI's (aka residual current devices) trip when there > is a current imbalance between the hot wire and ground > wire. If electricity is flowing correctly, the current > in these two wires is essentially zero. If it is not, > it indicates current is "leaking" to ground some other > way. The devices usually trip if the current > differential is as low as 4 to 6 milliamps for 25-40 > milliseconds. The device is designed to prevent > electocution should a person come in contact with the > hot wire, allowing the current to flow though his or > her body to ground. So this has nothing to do with > high amperage loads akin to normal circuit breakers.
Also the GFCI only responds to downstream leakages so > I think it is highly unlikely if not impossible that > the culprit is outside your ooach. So I think there is > some electical device in your coach that is causing a > current imbalance at exactly 3:19 f/e the coffee > maker. I'd be thinking along those lines and > disconneting as many things as you can to try to > issolate the problem.

These devices do fail from time to time, but a) yours > is new and b) the fact that it happens exactly and > only at 3:19 tends to indicate something else. But if > all else fails they are cheap and easy to replace if > you don't mind playing in the electricity! I had to > replace one in my coach because the electrical > assembly crew at CC lacks a very basic electrical > skill - making sure screws are tight. Just be sure > shore power if off AND inverter is off and not > supplying 110 AC.

Good luck and let us know what the culprit was.

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

--- Bob Stephens wrote:

> In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at > > 3:19am - three

> times. We had the coach in service at Desert West > > on March 19-20 and

> they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was > > fine on the night

> of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and > > 23rd after

> returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits > > (wall plugs)

> tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we > > have an air filter

> that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet > > wakes us up. On the

> 23rd I reset the clock on the inverter thinking it > > might be a problem,

> it had gone to zero when they disconnected the > > batteries. Everything

> was fine after that until this morning at 3:19am > > when they tripped

> again. None of the other circuits seem to be > > affected although it

> appears the floor heat GFI tripped this morning > > also.
>

> Any ideas? I'll be calling tech support later when > > they open.
>

> PS We've been parked in this site in Tucson since > > November and haven't

> had the problem until the last week.
>
> Bob

> '05 Intrigue 11872
>
>

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 29983
Bob,

Please turnoff your computer - look at how many posts you have made! Fred Kovol

Quote from: Bob Stephens
>

Don, our floor breaker in the breaker box is a standard non-GFI, > however, the floor thermostat in our coach has a built in GFI that > trips everytime my wife starts the washing machine. This is > supposedly due to a bad GFI circuit in the thermostat.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

[quote author=Don Seager"

>

> Bob,
>

> I have a 2004 Allure and the floor heat is not on a GFI. It is a > normal 15 amp breaker. Is a GFI for the floor heat something new in > 2005. Reason I ask is that if the floor heat is not a GFI then the > fact that it also is tripping could lead the trouble shooting in a > different direction. Just wondering.
>

> Don Seager

> 2004 Allure 31046
>

> In the last week our GFI circuits have tripped at 3:19am - three > > times. We had the coach in service at Desert West on March 19-20

and

Quote
they replaced the chassis battery. Everything was fine on the

night

Quote
of March 21 while parked in Mesa but on the 22nd and 23rd after > > returning to Voyager in Tucson the two GFI circuits (wall plugs) > > tripped at precisely 3:19am. We know because we have an air

filter

Quote
that quits when the circuits trip and the quiet wakes us up. On

the

Quote
23rd I reset the clock on the inverter thinking it might be a

problem,

Quote
it had gone to zero when they disconnected the batteries.

Everything

Quote
was fine after that until this morning at 3:19am when they

tripped

Quote
again. None of the other circuits seem to be affected although

it

Quote
appears the floor heat GFI tripped this morning also.
>

> Any ideas? I'll be calling tech support later when they open.
>

> PS We've been parked in this site in Tucson since November and

haven't

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30015
GFCI's can detect several types of fault. One is a Ground-Neutral fault.
This is where the Neutral and Ground wires are connected by a low resistance path. This matches your case of multiple GFCI's being tripped despite nothing wrong with your protected loads.
Sure sounds like something near your site is tripping on and improperly shorting the Neutral and Ground, possibly a submerged pump of some sort.

Bill & Debbie in San Diego

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30017
Bill:

So are you saying the fault doesn't have to be "downstream" in the circuit from the GFCI, and therefore can be out side the coach?

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760

--- Bill Zucker billzucker@...> wrote:

Quote
GFCI's can detect several types of fault. One is a
Ground-Neutral fault.

This is where the Neutral and Ground wires are
connected by a low resistance

path. This matches your case of multiple GFCI's
being tripped despite

nothing wrong with your protected loads.

Sure sounds like something near your site is
tripping on and improperly

shorting the Neutral and Ground, possibly a
submerged pump of some sort.

Bill & Debbie in San Diego
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Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30018
Hmmmm...

It's a downstream problem that a GFCI is designed to look for, but spikes and sags on the three input lines can confuse all but the best GFCI's. Looking into this further, there are apparently a number of ways a GFCI can "nuisance" trip. Radio interference can cause it in susceptible GFCI's, for instance. If the GFCI has arc-fault protection also, there are more situations to ponder, but I doubt that you have an AFCI.
Although I'd still wager it was an external power event causing the trip, it's quite possible that the particular GFCI's are of a design or batch that is more susceptible to nuisance tripping, and might warrant swapping out if this happens again elsewhere.

Any further clues from the Tripped? Great mystery.

Bill & Debbie in San Diego

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30019
Check your 110v vanity lights in the bathroom. They crimp the wires during installation and this is a common fix, for GFCI's that keep tripping. Start with those lights and if its not there look at the others.

John Knight Jr.

Buddy Gregg Motor Homes

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30021
Bob -

Maybe disconnect your shore power -sounds like a time clock controlled outside lighting

George

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30026
All of our lighting is 12v with the exception of one table lamp that we added but its been unplugged the last two nights.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Quote from: John Knight

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30027
Being in the middle of the Sonoran desert I doubt that it is a pump.
We have lots of neighbors with golf carts, handicap carts, etc and they run battery chargers. I wonder if this could be a problem? We're going to try disconnecting the shore power but we'll wait until the night time lows exceed 44 degrees.......

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Quote from: Bill Zucker
GFCI's can detect several types of fault. One is a Ground-Neutral

fault.

Quote
This is where the Neutral and Ground wires are connected by a low

resistance
 

Re: GFCI Tripping at 3:19am

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 30035
So it wasn't the coffee maker! Anything else that has a clock/timer - VCR, Computer, alarm clock! Anything working in or near water, which could provide a good leakage path to ground? You have probably already racked your brain trying to think of the obvious and not so obvious candidates. I just keep think the 3:19 thing is such a huge hint.

Given Bill's response though disconnecting shore power does seem like a good logical next test. I would not think you need to run genset all night as was suggested. Just leave inverter on. Your new batteries should be fine overnight unless you need to leave something other than a night light or clocks on A.C. power overnight. I left mine on continously at J.I.
Rally and only ran genset a couple hours in evening.
Voltage never got below 12.2 or 12.1. Overnight draw on battery was less than 100 amp-hours. If you start out fully charged should be fine. I'd be really interested in outcome especially if the GFCI's don't trip!

Bob Amory

2002 Alure 30760

[quote author=Bill
Zucker"

>

> GFCI's can detect several types of fault. One is a
Ground-Neutral
fault.

> This is where the Neutral and Ground wires are
connected by a low
resistance

> path. This matches your case of multiple GFCI's
being tripped despite

> nothing wrong with your protected loads.
>

> Sure sounds like something near your site is
tripping on and improperly

> shorting the Neutral and Ground, possibly a
submerged pump of some sort.
>

> Bill & Debbie in San Diego
>[/quote]
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with Search weather shortcut.

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