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Toad Brakes

Yahoo Message Number: 1973
Dick:

You may want to check out the Unified Tow Brake made by US Gear. It uses the power brakes on your tow car as they were designed to be used with the booster. Not over riding it. Works great.

mnnblk2001

Toad Brakes

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7757
Hi Folks!

Looks as if we will soon be joining the ranks of Toad pullers and are now in the market for a braking system. I would prefer a system that is totally under hood if such exists. Does anyone here have experience with or know of such a system? Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Dave

2000 Allure 36'
#30444

Mfg Sept.1999

2004 Honda Pilot (Toad to be)

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7759
Dave, I installed an M&G Engineering brake on our Jeep. It is totaly under the hood and requires nothing but an air line from the coach to the toad. The unit itself mounts between the vaccum booster and the master brake cylinder. If you are mechanically inclined, you can install it yourself. There is one adjustment to make during installation and it is fully explained in the directions. A breakaway system is also available. M&G has a web site: www.m-gengineering.com if you want to check it out. In over 50,000 miles of use, I have had no problems with the unit.
Don

'02 Intrigue #11427

Quote from: Dave Hills\[br\
]
Hi Folks!

Looks as if we will soon be joining the ranks of Toad pullers and

are

Quote
now in the market for a braking system. I would prefer a system

that is

Quote
totally under hood if such exists. Does anyone here have

experience
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7762
Hi Dave, we would recommend the M&G system as well. Last summer while we were in Eugene having some things done at the factory to the coach, we went to Saturn of Eugene. While we were in town, there were 4 Saturns towed in whose brakes had burned up and done substantial damage to the car using Brake Buddy. All 4 were coming over Grant's Pass. Actually I had just purchased the new Blue Ox system that is the same as Brake Buddy. The only difference is that one was analog (Buddy) and the new Blue Ox was digital. Needless to say, when I saw how many vehicles were having problems with that type system, I returned the system to Blue Ox and put on M&G. If you are in the Eugene area there is a company called Hitch and Pro and they do very good work and are very nice people. Hope this helps and good luck. Dale 2002 Affinity 6129

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7765
Dave and Don---I too have the M&G system and am very happy with it. I would caution you, however, about installation. A friend in our RV club burned up the brakes and rotors on a Honda Accord because the system was installed incorrectly. He contacted M&G who paid one-half of his $1600 damage, advising that if they had installed the system they would have paid the entire cost. They usually have rep's at FMCA rallies who can install them--that's how I bought mine.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7767
Dave:

I have examined most all of the braking systems on the market.
There are some real dogs and a few good ones. My hunt was for a system which did in no way change or modify either the car or the motor home.
Changes which involve the hydraulics, vacuumed or electrical systems do just this. Now I don't get all upset about this but some aggressive insurance adjuster just might.

My next priority was could I understand how it worked completely and how it was to be installed on my coach. I used my system on a P30 chassis gas motor home which really needed it to be safe. This has been brought to light recently in the Fleetwood class action suit and recall. Upon purchase of a 36 ft Intrigue I reinstalled my system with little difficulty. Thankfully CC has extra wires running from the rear to the area behind the dash. All the remaining effort is in the engine compartment.

Now as far as the car is concerned there is much to consider. Some systems require modification to the master cylinder to provide the motivating action. Some require holes to be drilled in the fire wall to run cable. Some have an air compressor installed under the hood.

Some systems claim they apply a proportionate amount of pressure to the toads brakes. It has been my position that this is so much bunk.
The old electric trailer brakes accomplished this and the driver could feel the resultant drag on the car but your 36 ft coach won't feel a thing.

Perhaps the most beneficial attribute of toad brake systems is the break-a-way feature. Most all of the manufacturers have this.
A system which depends on the swinging of a weight in the direction of travel is subject to pulsating application of brakes. This is acknowledged by the indication of new damping of mechanism to reduce this phenomenon.

Enough for being critical of other systems. The system which I use is the Tow-V-Aire. On first glance it may now have the glitz or glitter of some of the fancy brands. If you ever go to a FMCA convention the seller often presents the seminar on "Toad Brakes"

The system is activated when the brake light circuit is energized.
This opens a valve in the system box in the car which activates an air cylinder which pushes the brake pedal. The amount of push is determined by an adjustment of a reducer valve in a driving test .
Proportional braking... NO but It does not lock up the brakes either.
If in the unlikely situation when your toad comes off the coach the brake away switch opens full air pressure to the cylinder and jambs on the brakes and presumably stops the car. Information is provided to the purchaser on what to hook up where.
The system in the car consists of a housing which sits on the floor in back of the driver seat. The air cylinder connects to the brake pedal and to the floor. The maneuver takes about 30 seconds if you are good and 1 minute if you are a klutz. Keep in mind you may not use it all the time and when you do it much more work hooking up the car than hooking up your brake system.

We have about 20,000 miles on our toad brake system.

Some things to consider:

The brake lights on the toad;
a. are lit from the electrical system in the coach?
b. are lit because the brake pedal in the car has been pressed?
c. The directional signals most likely will be parralled to the coach.
D. The big connector for the cable to the car. Will it contain enough
available empty conductors so a second socket won't have to be installed.

Tow-V-Aire (http://tow-v-aire.com) system has a light on the dash which indicates power has been sent to the toad's brake lights. The only way this can happen, is if the brake pedal has been applied, not that you have pushed on the motor home brake activating the coach lights. A simple switch in the circuit can turn the system off and on.
At low speeds in town there is no point to having it on.
The brake-a-way always works regardless of the switch position.
Look at the web site, read their pitch, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions. No I don't sell them nor do I install for other people but I have strong feelings for this system. Call the manufacturer in Florida, as he may have people he would recommend.

I hope you have less trouble making a decision than I did and the above is of some help.

James M. Green Intrigue 36' # 11021

- In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, Dave Hills wrote:

Quote
Hi Folks!
> Looks as if we will soon be joining the ranks of Toad pullers and are > now in the market for a braking system. I would prefer a system

that is

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7775
Dave, Go with M & G

Thanks, Mike... Allure 30898

- In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, Dave Hills wrote:

Quote
Hi Folks!

Looks as if we will soon be joining the ranks of Toad pullers and

are

Quote
now in the market for a braking system. I would prefer a system

that is

Quote
totally under hood if such exists. Does anyone here have

experience

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7778
If M & G doesn't work in your car, what would be your next recommendation?
I had a gigantic problem with Brake Buddy (which they completely covered by the way - 100%) and I've learned that M & G doesn't fit in our car.

Thanks.

Tom

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7782
Tom, did the M&G people in Athens, Tx tell you their system wouldn't work in your car? I can't help but be curious as to what kind of car you have.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7783
From: Spiker1029@...>

Quote
Tom, did the M&G people in Athens, Tx tell you their system wouldn't work

in

Quote
your car? I can't help but be curious as to what kind of car you have.
I'm not Tom, but, in '00, the M&G folks told me that their system wouldn't fit our '89 Acura Integra. So I ended up buying a VIP-Tow> setup to fit both our '89 Integra and '98 Subaru Forester toads.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7784
Hi Walt

We tow a Mercedes ML 500 (the small Mercedes SUV). M & G in Texas said there wasn't enough room to install their system. I wish that were not true as they would be our first choice.

Tom

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7785
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:15:23 -0800 "Tom" tsims@...> wrote:

Tom, what type of problem did you have with the brake Buddy?

Ray G 01 Magna

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7786
Thanks--I'm surprised they can't adapt it, but if there's no room there's no room. It's a shame because it's a really good system.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7787
In reference to the M&G system, I forgot to mention something in my earlier post. A friend had the system installed at the FMCA Convention in Buffalo, NY, this year ... and when he first drove his car after the install (the next day), the brake pedal was low. Scary. A phone call got the M&G technician to return ... and the problem was fixed. But it's a good thing the install wasn't done on the last day of the convention, 'cause the technician might've left by the time my friend noticed the problem.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7788
Hi Ray

I hate to see this because the Brake Buddy people were/are really nice and they took full responsibility for my problem.
The Mercedes was 1 month old. On a trip with the Brake Buddy install, for about the last 500 miles of towing the Brake Buddy failed to release the car brakes (kept the brake pedal depressed the entire time) the result being the car was towed with the brakes engaged - for 500 miles. Results: complete burn out of all four brakes on the car and major damage to wiring, wheels (two which were destroyed) and other elements on the new car to the point of $4,500. The people of Brake Buddy said it was a rare problem they're encountered before and without any hassle whatsoever from me, took full financial responsibility for the damage including an offer (which we chose not to take them up on) of renting a car for the 5 weeks it took to restore our Mercedes to new condition.

I can't say enough good things about the Brake Buddy company; unfortunate, of course, we had this problem with their product.

Tom

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7795
Quote
The Mercedes was 1 month old. On a trip with the Brake Buddy

install, for

Quote
about the last 500 miles of towing the Brake Buddy failed to
release the car

Quote
brakes (kept the brake pedal depressed the entire time) the result

being the

Quote
car was towed with the brakes engaged - for 500 miles. Results:

complete

Quote
burn out of all four brakes on the car and major damage to wiring,

wheels

Quote
(two which were destroyed) and other elements on the new car to

the point of

Quote
$4,500.
There is a simple way to avoid this kind of problem with most of the brake systems. Roadmaster includes a small indicator light with their braking system. What you do is tap into your car's brake light circuit. Run one wire which is the brake light "hot-when-on" up to your RV dash area and to the 12 volt indicator light. You get the ground "negative" for the light from your RV ground. What happens then is whenever your car's braking system is activated by the braking system you have installed your car's brake lights in the rear light up. This then sends 12 volt positive up thru the wire you installed to the dash of your RV and the indicator light then "lights up." I have mine installed in a visible location seen easily while driving. What you see is whenever you apply your RV brakes and the Toad braking system becomes activated, the light lights up. Once you release your RV brakes, the light is "supposed" to go out. One time it stayed on after I had taken my foot off the brake pedal and I immediatley pulled over and found that I had a stuck air cyliner on the Roadmaster braking system in the Toad (my fault in the way I had clamped it onto the brake pedal that time and the cylinder did not fully release). Saved me from driving with my Toad brakes on. Since the Roadmaster air system is proportional I can see that when I use my RV brakes very "lightly" sometimes the Toad brakes aren't even applied in that the Toad brake lights do not come on. Simple little thing and can save so much in possible damage costs $$$$.

Bill-PA-Country Coach Prevost 1998 40' XL

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7800
Dave,

Since you are installing a US Gear brake system on a 2004 Honda Pilot, I thought I would pass on that on my 2003 honda Pilot EX I had to place the solenoid that activates the brake pedal underneath the left front headlight area. This of course meant that the whole nose of the Honda had to be removed to get to this area. It is something that you do on later model cars -- to install the hide away base plate for your tow bar. The normal place under the seat where the solenoid would normally go is not available because of the power seats.

Ken

2000 Magna
# 5811

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7801
Quote from: Tom"

Hi Walt
> We tow a Mercedes ML 500 (the small Mercedes SUV). M & G in Texas said there wasn't enough room to install their system. I
wish that were not true as they would be our first choice.

Quote
Tom
 

Re: Toad Brakes

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7848
Hi, Dave,

M&G Braking systems. Everything is under the hood. Porportional braking. We're very happy with it.

Mark

'03 Intrigue #11625