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Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Yahoo Message Number: 63529
Does anyone know exactly how the fresh water system is set up in our coaches (at least a 2002 Magna)in the following sense: Is there anything that can restrict flow/pressure past the water pump? (I have a round screen filter between the tank and the pump and it is clean. There is another of these screen filters but is appears to be for the fresh water drain solenoid only).
My undertanding is that while it might affect city water pressure and flow, the whole house filter would not affect anything involving using the water in the tank and the pump)since that filter is in line after the city water connection, but before the tank and has nothing to do with what flows to the pump from the tank or from the pump to the fixtures. Is that correct? I believe the same applies to the brass adjustable pressure regulator built in to my coach on the wall near the water pump. Is this true?

I have always had a lower pressure and some pulsation on all the hot water outlets in coach including the shower both on city water or pump. I installed a new hot water heater. The only thing I can think that could be causing the hot water pressure problem is the brass one way valve on the water heater fresh water inlet/bypass on the back of the water heater. I did not replace that but used the original one.
I even got a new Aquatec water pump (my old one went after 8 years) and it appears to have made no difference in the hot water flow. In fact now the cold water flow is dropping off as well. I think the pump may be defective so I have ordered a replacement pump but this is not the hot water pressure problem.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63533
Rich, I found the back flow preventer installed at the end of the shower hose (next to the valve) was caked with calcium/lime deposits, so just removed it. Check the aerators on the faucet ends too. After I flushed the shower system a little "O" ring flushed through, so may have been in there forever. I also took all the flow restrictors (both sinks and shower) out so the lower pressure of the 12 pump will not be as evident. I soaked the showerhead and spray head on the galley sink in CLR, and they act new.
I just remembered I took the element completely out of the filter from the city water fill, should replace that at some point. I do not think it was a factor in my water difficulties, but did not know that when I started working on it.
My fresh water tank drain is clogged, so to drain and refill the fresh water tank I run it through the drain from the pump output - something else for my to-do list.
I keep a spare water pump on board, just in case I need it or a neighbor does.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63534
Quote from: Rich"

> Does anyone know exactly how the fresh water system is set up in our coaches (at least a 2002 Magna)in the following sense: Is there anything that can restrict flow/pressure past the water pump? (I have a round screen filter between the tank and the pump and it is clean. There is another of these screen filters but is appears to be for the fresh water drain solenoid only).
Don't know about yours but I just had the same problem. Pulled the whole house water filter, problem fixed.

Frank allure 31425

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63545
Thanks Jack. I have checked/CLRed all the aerators and shower heads. Not the problem, unfortunately, and it is mainly just the hot water at all outlets. I was referring to the backflow preventer on the back of the water heater. I was not aware that there were any other backflow preventers or "flow restrictors in the system". Can you fill me on these so I can find and remove them? Is there one on the kitchen sink as well? Where are these? BTW, I have two shower heads with a shunt valve. I think that setup may be different in a Magna

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63546
Hi Jack,

I was just wondering if your sure that your fresh water drain is clogged and the solenoid getting 12 volts. For some reason my switch is failing to supply voltage to my valves. I've been using my battery charger to activate the solenoids when I want to drain my fresh water until I get some time to troubleshoot it.
Kevin Burns

00 Affinity #5865

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63547
Rich, I had the same problem on my 99 Magna. Try taking the filter out of the canister and see of that makes a difference. Sure did on mine. I'm going to try and find a filter/canister that has better water flow.

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63548
Rich,

Have you looked at your plumbing drawings? Kevin Burns

00 Affinity #5865

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63550
Frank and Jim,

I guess you are answering my question indirectly, and that somehow, the fresh water pump sends water through the whole house filter. I do not understand how or why, but I will change it. In fact, there is an easy way to tell: if the filter cannister is pressurized when not hooked up to city water with pump on, then I assume the tank water must through it from the pump under that condition as well. I thought it only filtered city water fill line. I will report back when I do this. While this could explain why all my pressure is dropping in the last day or two, it cannot explain why the hot water flow alone has been low forever, even after changing the filter in the past.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63552
Kevin, I am embarassed: Whenever I go to the manual for this kind of info it is not detailed enough. However, in this case, there is a clear diagram showing the whole house filter downstream of both the tank/pump and also the city water. This is good to know for other reasons such as manually filling the tank. The pressure regulator is not in the diagram, but the language indicates it acts only on the city water.
So, I will bet my filter has reached the end of its life probably since the water here is very hard.
However, this does not explain my somewhat low and pulsating hot water flow that has gone on for years, so the only thing I can find in the diagram is the backflow preventer or "check valve" at the HW tank input. I have ordered a new one. I would not be at all surprised if the old one is somewhat limed up and as I said, I did not replace it with the new HW heater. We shall see.
I still want to hear about these "flow restrictors" at the sinks from Jack. There is no mention of them in the manual all all. Why would you need these with the central pressure regulator? I don't get it.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63554
Rich,

Good for you! I didn't mean to seam short last night, I was just extremely tired and it was around 11:00 pm and I still hadn't had breakfast (unless you want to call two cups of coffee "breakfast") Most backflow preventers by nature tend to cause some restriction as it takes more pressure to push the water thru them. If, as I suspect your house filter is clogged, the reduced pressure at a higher flow would really show up thus causing your problem. I always put a filter on my hose when filling up the fresh water, this seems to cause the house filter to last longer and makes me feel better about what's in my tank. Good Luck! Kevin Burns

00 Affinity 5865

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63561
Rich, I had pulsating water flow too before I removed the filter from the canister. After looking at some of the specs for the water filter, I'm not so sure that the filter can output as much water as the 2.8 GPM pump can put out. I think the pulsating can come from this discrepancy. My pulsating is gone now and I am going to make sure that the next after filter I get is rated at 3 PPM or more.

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63568
Rich:

The flow restrictors I found were in the kitchen sink removable sprayer head and the shower, in the hose leading to the head part. The restrictor consisted of a little plastic disk with a small hole in it, easily removed. I kept them in case anyone wants them. Not very "green" of me, but the showers are much more enjoyable, and temperature seems more constant with the larger volume of water. When I boondock I just turn the water off between soaping and rinsing. I spend most of my time at full service facilities.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63569
Kevin, thanks for the idea and help.
My coach is not blessed (cursed?) with water drain solenoids, thankfully. My drain is a very straight forward "petcock" drain type valve you would find on a 1960 Chevy radiator, and the hose from the tank is just a clear plastic one about four inches long. No mystery there - I bet a piece of trash got in the petcock, as that is the only place flow is restricted.
I have not dealt with it because I have another way to get the water out (through the pump and its attendant petcock drain), and the offending valve is WELL glued in. I would have to drain (waste) the 100+ gallons of water, unglue the valve, clean it out and reassemble it. Not a big deal, but not critical, either.
It is on my list, and may get done some nice day when I get bored.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63571
Jack, Home Depot has a nice, for a few bucks, off/on button switch you can insert before your shower hose line, or at the head. Easy DIY, probably will save you over 50% on water in the shower.

--

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63574
Lee one of the problems with the shut-off valve in the line is , if you have a pressure balancing valve in your coach, it loses its temperature setting when you shut off , and you can get a shot of hot or cold water. If you don't have a pressure balancing valve you would not have this issue. I usually just shorten the shower time when conserving water.

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63575
Mine is the single handle type (probably like most CC), and it is no trouble to push off - thanks though. As it is just me in this big, beautiful coach, hot water is not a concern. Stays very warm on electric only.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63576
Jack,

Could you use a little compressed air on a regulator to see it you can dislodge the obstruction? Kevin Burns

00 affinity 5865

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63577
Jack, there is no flow restrictor on the shower, and I cannot find one on the kitchen sprayer head (this has always been lower flow than anything else). I have Grohe fixtures. I am wondering if that is whey I cannot find one.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63579
I did think of compressed air, and that would probably do the trick. But, the "obstruction", if any, would then be back in the fresh water tank, lurking there, ready to strike again, or strike something else like the water pump. Next time I change the water in the tank I will deal with it by removing everything downstream from the tank, and cleaning it out properly. Or replacing it - those little sheet metal turn off handles are murder on my fingers. I am thinking a larger free flowing valve, too, to better flush anything in the line or tank.
Thanks

Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63580
To all: I removed the HydroLife filter, replacing it for now with just a meltblown sediment filter that is virtually free flowing. The situation improved dramatically! However, there is still some slight pulsation on the hot water only. I think the anti-backflow valve on the HW tank is creating that and a new on is on the way. I also think the new pump is somewhat defective from listening to the way it behaves. Another is on the way.
You are correct that at least the Hydrolife KDF filters I use are rated at only 2.5 gpm. Now that I know the the filter is downstream of the water pump which is rated at 5.3 gpm, I realize that these big pumps are actually kind of silly since the filter is the limiting factor as our coaches are plumbed. If you find a good carbon filter that will fit in that cannister that has a 5 gpm flow rate pls let me know.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63581
I was thinking more of slightly pressurizing the fresh tank and forcing the obstruction out, that's why the pressure regulator. But sounds like your on top of it anyway. I'm not retired, but need to be do everything I want to with the coach, so I'm always just trying to find the fastest why to get the job done right, maybe not alway thinking of improving the existing design.
Kevin

00 Affinity 5865

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63582
I suppose your rig might not have the restrictors. My fixtures were made by Kohler, except the faucet in my water bay. That was made by Joe's Plastic Fantastique shop, or someplace similar. It has been replaced.
My rig sat for a couple years before I bought it, so I had restrictions and sediment that most would not experience. One cold night, after a particularly skimpy shower I vowed to get it fixed, even if I had to replace every hose, clamp and fixture in the coach. The water pump would cycle every half second or so, so you got an on again, off again flow.
I removed the pressure line from the water pump and blew air back through the shower hose, cycling the shower valve hot to cold and back, and that freed it up a little. Something may have squirted out, but left the area before I could see it.
At some point I removed the backflow preventer at the base of the shower hose (nice matching brass color, about 1.5" inch diameter and maybe 1" long) as it was clogged solid with lime and calcium. While I had that apart I removed the shower head and blew out the shower hose itself. That is when I got the restrictor out and a little "O" ring that had been floating in the system. I did not recognize the "O" ring, but kept it for later in case something in there needed it. My water pump does not cycle now, probably because the increased water flow does not let the pressure switch shut down the pump every second or so.
I also cleaned out the water heater with a little wand sold for the purpose. I was surprised how little sediment I got out of that, expected lots more. That is now on my list to do every six months or so.
My parking place has great water and enough water pressure that the pressure regulator moans when a faucet is turned on. Showers and other water supplies are now great, certainly worth the trouble.
I can't say what the fix was, as there may have been multiple problems, but it is fine now.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63583
Good point, I did not think of adding a little pressure in the direction of water flow. Thanks, that is easy and I will try it. With the good water pressure here, I might use that, as my pressure regulator will keep from blowing anything up. I will have to stop up the hose fill home and over flow line - or apply enough volume to pressurize the system with them open.
I understand the necessity of "doing it yourself". I am retired, so have the time, and I enjoy most of it. Easier is always better, as is faster.
Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: Fresh Water Plumbing/Flow Question

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63597
I too added a stop valve on my shower and wondered why the water gets hot? Whare is this balancing valve? Dont want to remove it just want to see what it looks like. Love this group. Ken 99 Allure 30356