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Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Yahoo Message Number: 75054
I thought someone on here could possibly give me an explanation for the following occurrence. This has happened twice, each time about a year apart. I have my coach in extended storage for the first time ever. I have been simply disconnecting the battery cables and then reconnecting them when I needed to move the coach or run something inside, or start the generator. Solely as an experiment I decided to leave the battery cables connected and set the auto gen start on the Silverleaf. I set the auto gen start to start the generator at 12.2v and to run for four hours. On the fourth day, the house battery voltage had dropped to 12.25v according to both my voltmeter and the RC7GS meter above the entry door. Since it was convenient in that I was going to be near the coach most of the day, I decided, impatiently, to start the generator manually and come back later in the day and shut it off. As soon as I tried to start the generator, it took one slight turnover and then nothing. I then started the coach's engine, tried starting the generator again after the engine ran no more than 60 seconds and the generator fired up instantly.
This obviously leads me to believe that if I had been patient and let the battery voltage drop to the set 12.2v, the auto gen start would have failed just as my manual gen start failed. All of this due to the fact that the batteries didn't have sufficient voltage to start the generator. If this is true, what is the value of the auto gen start feature unless you set the starting voltage so high that it really doesn't need to be used.
Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated as well as suggestions about successfully using the auto gen start feature rather than disconnecting batteries.

Brian Davis

2005 42' Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75055
Brian,

Did you disable the autostart on the Silverleaf before you tried to start the generator. If not then the Silverleaf autostart was in control and will not let the generator start and run during the stop/start cycle until the battery voltage drops below the preset value.
The reason that the generator started when you started the engine is the oil pressure switch activated the relay that ties the house and the engine batteries together. Likely the engine batteries were below the 12.2 set point and tying it to the house battery caused enough of a voltage drop to bring the combined voltage below the Silverleaf set point and the generator started.
It sounds to me like everything behaved as expected unless you disabled the Silverleaf before you attempted to start the generator manually. If that is true then I don't have an explanation off hand.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75056
Brian:

Here is what we set the Auto Gen. on when we were testing it in the factory.

Start Volts: 11.8V

Run Time: 240min

Top Off Volts: 12.4V

Top Off Run Time: 60min

Kevin Waite

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75057
Don

Excellent explanation. I too was unschooled as to how this worked. Thanks for taking the time to write it out and to Kevin for the default values.
Ed

08 Intrigue
#12260



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From: Don Seager

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Brian,

Did you disable the autostart on the Silverleaf before you tried to start the generator. If not then the Silverleaf autostart was in control and will not let the generator start and run during the stop/start cycle until the battery voltage drops below the preset value.
The reason that the generator started when you started the engine is the oil pressure switch activated the relay that ties the house and the engine batteries together. Likely the engine batteries were below the 12.2 set point and tying it to the house battery caused enough of a voltage drop to bring the combined voltage below the Silverleaf set point and the generator started.
It sounds to me like everything behaved as expected unless you disabled the Silverleaf before you attempted to start the generator manually. If that is true then I don't have an explanation off hand.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

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Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75060
Hi Don,

I did disable the autostart on the Silverleaf before I tried to start the generator, so that was not the problem. However, what you said is not correct. I have always had the autostart set, usually at 11.8 as Kevin stated in his reply and have never disabled it in the nearly seven years that I've owned the coach. I have over 868 hours on the generator and, if the batteries were sufficiently charged, it has never failed to start manually even though the autostart was set. And I know that the autostart WILL start the generator if the batteries are sufficiently charged because occasionally I'll run the microwave on the inverter and it will cause a momentary dip in the battery voltage and the generator will start.
Also, the chassis batteries were at a higher voltage than the house. I had measured both with my voltmeter and while the house batteries read 12.25 the chassis batteries still read 12.55.

Brian Davis

'05 CC 42' Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75061
Hi Kevin,

The Auto Gen Start settings that you set out below are exactly what I usually have mine set at, because I have a copy of the "settings sheet" that the factory uses. However, I moved it the starting point up to 12.2v because the factory told me that the 11.8v assumes that you are using the coach and providing occasional battery discharge, so that there is no residual surface charge. I was always told to move it up to 12.2v (50% SOC) when in storage with no anticipated usage other than the phantom loads. This same thing was confirmed to me by factory personnel at Newell Coach.
If I had left the starting voltage at 11.8, then it sure wouldn't have started. If it won't start at 12.2v it sure won't start at 11.8v. Do you have a theory why the generator wouldn't start manually at 12.2v?

Brian Davis

'05 42' Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75064
Brian,

You may disagree with what I said but I don't know that necessarily makes me wrong. My autostart behaves as I stated and I have been caught by it many times when I had the auto start set and tried to start the generator manually. The problem is that all of these electronic systems see subtle upgrades over time and I probably should not have offered my experience as a possible solution to your problem.
Since you replied that you did in fact disable the autostart then my suggestion doesn't apply anyway.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Hi Don,

I did disable the autostart on the Silverleaf before I tried to start the generator, so that was not the problem. However, what you said is not correct. I have always had the autostart set, usually at 11.8 as Kevin stated in his reply and have never disabled it in the nearly seven years that I've owned the coach. I have over 868 hours on the generator and, if the batteries were sufficiently charged, it has never failed to start manually even though the autostart was set. And I know that the autostart WILL start the generator if the batteries are sufficiently charged because occasionally I'll run the microwave on the inverter and it will cause a momentary dip in the battery voltage and the generator will start.
Also, the chassis batteries were at a higher voltage than the house. I had measured both with my voltmeter and while the house batteries read 12.25 the chassis batteries still read 12.55.

Brian Davis

'05 CC 42' Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75070
I had the same problem on my Allure. It has 4 8D batteries and wouldn't start the gen without the boost or starting the main engine. I replaced the batteries a year ago and the problem went away. The gen always starts now even at lower voltages (I set my autostart at 12.1). The problem was a tired battery or a less than good connection.

John Pratt

'06 Allure 31308

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75074
I have had the same problem since I purchased my Coach, 3yrs now. I do not leave it unattended and have it plugged into elect power all the time so I dismissed it all together. After much trouble shooting and checking batteries, voltage etc., I had determined that the Cause was the length of the battery cable, being that it was too small, If memory serves me right(it has been awhile since I fooled with it on auto) the Cable is 1 ought., several people including the Kuboto Tractor Co., said that was their explanation also. I have the 10K gen set. I too would like to know what is the real problem? Sure would be a choir to change out that Cable...
Marvin, 07 Allure, 470, #31459, Residential Refrigerator

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75075
After a little more thought, I remember at the time that I used another battery and connected directly to the generator terminal, On the gen set, and it would start every time, someone had mentioned at the time, not sure if it was here or some place else, to add another battery to the front area, nearer the gen set, and use the old battery cable to charge the newly placed battery.. I did not try that since I don't necessarily need the auto start at this time, but would like to have it work if ever needed. Does anyone know it that set up would work or cause a problem with the other batteries? Of course when I do need the gen it always starts with the Boost if the Batteries are Low..
Marvin, 07 Allure, 470, #31459

Re: Silverleaf auto gen start feature

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75078
The voltage at the silver leaf/ generator will be less than the house batteries terminals due to the voltage drop caused by the DC loads on the cable Bob6 intrigue 12047