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Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Yahoo Message Number: 82050
Monty Kershner 2007 tribute 260 #81044 2012 Lincoln MKX

Got the coach over to Cat on Columbia in Portland last Wednesday. Explained the engine losing power going downhill in southern Oregon and on the Coast coming from Astoria to Portland. In depth I told the RPM speed, gear I was in, the down grade length and angle, and that this happened whether I had the exhaust brake on or off. I told them to put fuel in the Coach because I was at 1/8 tank, much lower than I ever like it but I was afraid to stop as it was stalling so often. I asked them to put 20 gallons in it for me. I checked Friday and again yesterday and today. I just got off the phone with Art and was told my problem was not enough fuel. I went nuts. I had explained I had fuelled up in Canyonville going into Medford and refilled again when we came back over the mountains. I never had less than ½ tank of fuel. Coming over from Astoria I had over 3/8 tank when it started to lose power. The entire sides of the Lincoln and the Coach was black with diesel when I got to Medford and again when I got to the coast. It took a detail shop 4 hours to clean the car and 5 hours to clean the coach. All of the problem coming out of the exhaust pipe. All fully explained to Cat. I was totally shocked when he said I was low on fuel and I could come pick up the Coach. I had also asked him to check if the shocks were set on the firmest setting. My build sheet says I have Koni adjustable and Art said that my shocks were not adjustable. I also wanted them to check my alignment as I just put on new tires and was told they could arrange it. Yesterday they said they can not do this. I found a company named Wingfoot that will do the alignment for about $150. To $200. Anyone have any Ideas. Cat had serviced and adjusted the valves just three weeks and 800 miles ago. Thanks I needed to vent.

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82051
I would start by calling CAT corporate hedquarters and explain you situation and ask for their help in identifying the problem and the solution including dealing with the inept service at the Portland CAT location.
At the minimum it my make you feel better, and it may get your problem fixed and some cash back in your pocket.

Bob Wexler
SOB

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82052
Sounds more like a turbo leaking oil or bad injector(s) to put out that much fluid. Did the engine oil go down? Did you use lots more then normal fuel? How was your turbo boost? All those could be hints on the source of the problem. A shop is only as good as the tech working on your coach. Sounds like very bad tech. One thing, the owner should always have plenty of fuel in the tank for them to test drive and work with. You pay a huge price for not having it and expecting them to do it. Is the excess coming out of the exhaust pipe or is it possible out the crankcase vent? Did your hear an engine knock? Often bad injectors will cause a very loud engine knock.

If the turbo is leaking oil on the exhaust side, it should be very apparent by exhaust pipe coating and pull the exhaust pipe off the turbo for inspection of pipe and turbo. For sure, something is very wrong with the engine. One can be sure it is all on the exhaust side or the engine would run away with that much excess oil going in the cylinders.

Good Luck
Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82053
No leak at the turbo, the engine oil did not go down and is still clean, when it ran it was normal, no problem pulling just when going downhill and braking. All diesel was coming out the tail pipe, the engine never knocked. I was concerned about stopping for fuel and instructed them to put fuel in it when I got there. I had been in center turn lanes twice only able to crank out 5 miles per hour and was afraid to stop and the engine kept getting worse.

Monty

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82054
I just got off the phone with Cat Corporate and they phoned Peterson Cat and told them what to do and they are to report back to corporate and to me tomorrow.

Thanks, Monty

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82069
Monty

The biggest thing I found in going from a Cummings Engine to a CAT engine is that it is harder to find CAT dealers who have experience with RV's and RVers. There is a CAT brochure that gives some indication as to the level of expertise among CAT service shops for RV type services. The better ones are generally in areas with high concentrations of RVers such as Tucson, Phoenix and Eugene. I have had several good experiences with Peterson CAT.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82070
The Orlando Cummins shop told me that RVs are almost 60% of their business. They cater to RVs and did good work on my coach at reasonable price.

Larry, 03 Allure,30856

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82072
Hi Ken Rreired Cat Service Tech, Sorry to hear about the Major Issues. Having worked for Cat most of my other life Our Dealer the Last one Ringpower in Tampa would not let this get out of hand! Remember Honest Techs have Mortgage payments and served in our Military. Aside this Im hoping for a update on your Wet Stacking Issue. Wish it was one of my Jobs! The biggest problem in the service Biz is understanding the enduser. I have learnd to listen to the Enduser then the Engine Issues then perform the repair! Peterson Cat should of use words more positive to you. As long as their arnt four letter words to the tech they are on your side. Todays techs need their jobe as I have been there. Giving the Issues you have shared are well spoken from a enduser stand point. Not Being there and seeing the fuel in the Exhaust Tip opens doors to find the fix. If oil level is at correct level and turbo feed and exhaust piping are dry again I would have to see this. Trust me as an enduser now I feel your pain. Calling Cat corperate in your case most likly was for the best. Peterson Cat is a very good Cat Dealer and some of the best Techs are in the Pac Northwest! Having work done on my Cummins proves this. For now Im on the sidelines hoping to hear you posts! We all learn from you real world repairs. Do not ever feel Cat would forget or take advantage of you! Again having not being there with you and the way your problem was handeld I am hoping for a great Enduser Exp. Remember there are hundereds of retired Cat service Techs out there and yes some of us Have Cummins Engines! Again Please keep us posted and if you wish e-mail me off line. I know some Ex Bosses and can run this by them. Ken 99 Allure 30356.

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82083
Ken, thanks for the encouraging words. After my call to corporate I did not hear from Peterson Cat the next day but in the afternoon yesterday I got a call from the day shift supervisor. He said they had road tested the coach and had let it run for several hours on the incline ramp with the nose down and could not get the engine to fail. They said they had put in a fuel regulator but did not really think that was the solution. They wanted me to come out to drive it with a tech. I said I would but did not believe we could duplicate the problem in relatively flat Portland. I reminded them that the problem usually occurred on the three to six mile 6% down grades, the kind you find in southern Oregon between Roseburg and Grants Pass. They said they were concerned about the time they were spending with no solution. They said that the computer showed the fault that would turn on the check engine light but did not know whether that was due to me bringing it in with about 1/8 tank of fuel. I told them this problem was there when I picked up the Coach in Grants Pass when I bought it and headed North to Portland. Going down the hills the first time it happened. I called the dealer from the road and he suggested that maybe a fuel cap was not on tight. I tightened both caps and did not see the light the rest of the way home. I thought problem solved. Our next few outings were flat land trips with no problem. It did it again the next time we were heading to Medford. I was towing my 1947 Lincoln Continental convertible on an open trailer. The engine failed going down the hills but no oil bath. I would know because the car was in a show in Medford and I had no cleanup. This was in great contrast to the diesel bath our MKX received the entire trip to Medford (cleaned up) To the coast (cleaned up) and Astoria home to Portland with still more clean up. The engine seems to have gone from losing power with no blow to losing power with an oil bath. Just 15,000 miles on the coach and only 3000 since we have owned it. Peterson warned me that to keep looking was going to be expensive. I said I would drive it to Southern Oregon again but questioned without a tech on board what would I prove other than I still have a problem. We want to take it to Minnesota to see our grandkids but do not trust it for such a long trip.

Monty Kershner

2007 Tribute C-9 #81044
2012 Lincoln MKX

montykershner@... Cell 503 332 7367

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82085
Since they can not find a cause, I would back up and think simple. For example, change all filters, start with new clean oil. Start with this base line. Since the problem is on steep grades, may I assume you are using the engine brake when it has issues? Have they tested the engine brake control system to be sure it is shutting off the fuel when the brake is applied? If the only time this shows up is with engine brake, it maybe tied to the engine brake system. Your engine is still so new, it needs lots of miles, at least 50,000 to brake in and settle down. The long run back east would be very good for it.

As for testing, take it out on the freeway, get it up to 70 mph, with trailer and car behind, you need that weight, engage engine brake and bring down to slow as safe and do over several times to see if it starts spiting.

One thing I have learned is to think simple for problem solving of this kind. Most times we over think the problem. Remember KISS. At this point, I would focus on engine brake issues.

Good luck

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82086
There was a gentleman at our CCFI rally with a 2008 coach with a C9 He had issues with the braided

fuel line between the filters and the injection pump. It allowed air in and fuel out but was intermittent

until the line tore open. Something to check! TWI 2004 intrigue 11731 PS. why don't you call the folks

at Country coach, Oregon motor coach and Premiere coach sales in Junction City, maybe they have seen
the issue, before.

Original Message:
-----------------

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82092
Thank you, Monty

From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Kerns Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 4:09 PM To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Since they can not find a cause, I would back up and think simple. For example, change all filters, start with new clean oil. Start with this base line. Since the problem is on steep grades, may I assume you are using the engine brake when it has issues? Have they tested the engine brake control system to be sure it is shutting off the fuel when the brake is applied? If the only time this shows up is with engine brake, it maybe tied to the engine brake system. Your engine is still so new, it needs lots of miles, at least 50,000 to brake in and settle down. The long run back east would be very good for it.

As for testing, take it out on the freeway, get it up to 70 mph, with trailer and car behind, you need that weight, engage engine brake and bring down to slow as safe and do over several times to see if it starts spiting.

One thing I have learned is to think simple for problem solving of this kind. Most times we over think the problem. Remember KISS. At this point, I would focus on engine brake issues.

Good luck

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82097
Just FYI, last year I had a less than optimal experience with Freightliner of Arizona in Phoenix, that's listed as a CAT shop that does RV services. I'd rather not go into details on-list, but email me if you're considering using them and want to chat.

Jim Walsh
2003 Lexa

Monty

The biggest thing I found in going from a Cummings Engine to a CAT engine is that it is harder to find CAT dealers who have experience with RV's and RVers. There is a CAT brochure that gives some indication as to the level of expertise among CAT service shops for RV type services. The better ones are generally in areas with high concentrations of RVers such as Tucson, Phoenix and Eugene. I have had several good experiences with Peterson CAT.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82098
Seems to me that a coach owner with a CAT engine might get helpful and useful recommendations by joining the CAT RV Forum (now Diesel RV Club Forum) . . . it's free . . . and asking CAT owners about service recommendations in their area.

Lee
--

Lee (leozbrowski@...) 2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153
CAT C-13

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82101
Thanks for the update Monty, As I type this Im in a Flying J in Bakersfield Ca. Lots of trucks here as I feel like in in Diesel city. I read your update post and see many red flags. Thinking of your issue the Cat C-9 one of my favorite new generation tier builds thought of the amount of power in a small build! A fellow poster may have hit the nail on the head by making a point on a cracked fuel line. In my mind you said both turbo inlet and EXHAUST HOT HOUSINGS WERE DRY? Maybe I miss read your post. Any way Putting the coach in the shop to me is a waste of time my thought. I always Dynoed as needed but in the real world going down a six percent road a dyno cant duplucate. Having the Cat Tech with you when this happend with his Laptop connected wirelessly to the Cat Com connector to the engine would of been the answer. Again Im going by the input your giving me. One thing I learned is our younger techs lack real world on the road expertise. Not chiming in on them trying to get you repaird and safe again for travel. Also driving on flat roads and not having the problem is another flag. Again Im sitting on the sidelines on this one waiting the hear from you on the fix. Yes I can say you are loosing fuel and on Newer Cat builds with the newer Cat ECM's Things like missing or loose fuel caps etc. can log in the laptop SOMETIMES fault codes. One thing for sure you are sparying fuel out the coach one way or the other! Hoping when you read this you will have the Cat service report in you hand with the fix. Keep us posted Ken Retired Cat Tech! 99 Allure 30356.

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82102
Monty


I retired from the Portland area and know the area well.
For a real life road test with the Coach equipped the way you had the problem. The nearest 6% grade form the cat service is out US 26 East to Government Camp up on the slopes of MT Hood (about 5 miles of 6%) It is a little distant (106 miles round trip) to travel but that is the choice from the cat service. I hope this will help you.
Bo & Kathy Lee

2000 Magna #5896 40 FT

2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
Rubicon

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82114
Ken retired Cat Tech. Great Tip for Cat Owners. My fellow Cat Owners belong to it. Since I have a Cummins not a good Idea for me. When I worked at My Last Dealer Ringpower in Tampa back in 08 I told My shop Mgr. Dont tell Coach owners Im a RV Fulltimer. I wanted to focus on Repairing their Rigs! I always treated them like Family and their Rigs were my rigs! Never had a call back or an unhappy enduser. Cat for now has a green diesel on the road diesel for Comm. use only for now. Hoping future builds will get them back on the road. Check out cat.com. I enjoy helping all of you out there. Remember on older Cat Coachs over 10 years young check Hoses belts and do you Mtn. Like me I had an Air Line chaff and Yes I had to Hire a Truck Repair Tech. BTW I gave him a rather large tip! Helping him lowered the bill if you handy like Me! Ken 99 Allure now turning 80k on an older Cummins 8.3 CAPS 330. 30356.

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82130
Try going over MT hood. You could drive all the way to the lodge and I am sure if you were having a problem it would show up before you got back to Portland. Lots closer than going to Ashland.

Brian O'Day

2006 Inspire #51565
2011 Escape Hybrid Toad
Portland Oregon

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues Wet Exhaust Stack

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82138
Great idea. I just got the coach back with no problem found. I will take it up to Hood in the next few days. If it does it, I will go pick up a tech and have him ride up with me or rather down with me.
Thanks again.

Monty Kershner Cell 503 332 7367
2007 Tribute 81044
2012 Lincoln MKX

Re: Cat Service issues or lack of service issues

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83658
Did you ever get your problem resolved? I'm asking because I have a similar problem with my C9. It will stall intermit tently. The only way I'm able to start it is by pumping the primer pump. Did a replacement of the braided fuel line help your situation?

Quote from: cmarshall@\.\.\.
> > There was a gentleman at our CCFI rally with a 2008 coach with a C9 He

had

Quote
issues with the braided

fuel line between the filters and the injection pump. It allowed air

in

Quote
and fuel out but was intermittent > until the line tore open. Something to check! TWI 2004 intrigue 11731 > PS. why don't you call the folks > at Country coach, Oregon motor coach and Premiere coach sales in

Junction

Quote
City, maybe they have seen > the issue, before.

Original Message:
-----------------

From: Monty Kershner montykershner@...
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:29:27 -0700 > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cat Service issues or lack of

service

Quote
issues

Thanks, not solutions yet, but they are still looking >

Monty

> From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Fahrion > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:33 AM > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cat Service issues or lack of

service

Quote
issues

Monty

The biggest thing I found in going from a Cummings Engine to a CAT

engine is

Quote
that it is harder to find CAT dealers who have experience with

RV's and

Quote
RVers. There is a CAT brochure that gives some indication as to the

level

Quote
of expertise among CAT service shops for RV type services. The better

ones

Quote
are generally in areas with high concentrations of RVers such as

Tucson,

Quote
Phoenix and Eugene. I have had several good experiences with Peterson

CAT.

Quote
>

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

> From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Monty

Kershner

Quote
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:45 PM > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cat Service issues or lack of

service

Quote
issues

> I just got off the phone with Cat Corporate and they phoned Peterson

Cat and

Quote
told them what to do and they are to report back to corporate and to

me

Quote
tomorrow.

Thanks, Monty

> From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Wexler > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:06 PM > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cat Service issues or lack of

service

Quote
issues

I would start by calling CAT corporate hedquarters and explain you

situation

Quote
and ask for their help in identifying the problem and the solution

including

Quote
dealing with the inept service at the Portland CAT location.
At the minimum it my make you feel better, and it may get your problem

fixed

Quote
and some cash back in your pocket.

Bob Wexler
SOB