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1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Yahoo Message Number: 82783
Great site I have been reading here for some time. We just picked up a 98 Allure with 8.3 Cummins and 40k in miles. Excellent condition I was amazed. I love the look of the older pushers.
I have read all I can read about the running temp so I need to ask you guys for some help. A one hour run on the interstate with the coach empty temp sets at 220. I pushed it hard to test it out and some easy does it to see if the temp would fall.
Found a small hydro leak at the fan motor but was just a loose fitting and cleaned the fins so it could breathe. I know the fan increases RPM with the engine. 220 is hot right? No alarm on the water gauge. Actually changed the gauge in hopes the stock was bad.
Also I read about the wet kit for the PTO, it appears my PTO is not pulling from the transmission but from the flywheel end of the engine. Wet kit still needed?
Last question the inverter works everything great when the coach is not running, will not run the tv with the engine on? possibly a relay?

This is our first coach we left the world of 5th wheels.

Thank you for reading and any help that you can give.

Nathan Blackwell
Indiana

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82784
Nathan. Here's input.
1. No Wet Kit Needed on your 98'
2. Sounds like the Radiator could be clogged up and/or need drain & flush and new coolant.
3. Could be bad Coolant Sensor and/or bad Dash Guage
4. You fan is controlled by the older Wax Type Valve
5. Can't help on TV issue

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

wrote:

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82787
Any TV that can be seen from the driver's seat (ie while driving ) and the ignition " on ", has a relay that does not allow power to the plug where the TV is plugged in. Most times the relay is near the plug. I have bypassed mine on all the coaches , I have owned so that my wife can watch a movie while we drive along the freeways. As you might expect, it's not a good thing for the driver to do. There is also a 12V fuse for this relay, which you can find and pull the fuse. There may be other things on this circuit. Incidentally, you have a lot to absorb in the change from a 5th wheel to a coach. It's just begun !! Have fun!

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82790
Thank you, and that makes sense. You are correct there is a learning curve but it has been a blast learning all the systems. I have always carried a tool box with us, now a bigger tool box and some spare parts as well.

Thank you for the response.
Nathan

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82794
Nathan,

Great coach and with only 40k miles you need to exercise that beast.
As to the 220 temp. You will hear different thoughts on this but 220 is warm and not too hot. Need to keep an eye on it if it goes up from there. If your fan is working correctly it should pull that temp back down quickly. But if you are only looking at the gauge, no Silverleaf, they are not very reliable and your actual temp may not be anywhere near that. No alarm or light indicates you are probably ok on the temps. I think your 8.3 has the usual fan controller but someone else can verify that. At some point you may want to unplug the two prong connector to the controller and see if the fan goes into high. You will know it if it does.

Just ask if you have anymore questions.

Richard Aquino
2001 Intrigue

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82798
Richard

Thanks for the reply. I spent most of the weekend under the coach cleaning and looking for the darn fan controller. Its hydraulic all the way around with the wax valve. I dont think I have a fan controller, but so far I have found out that I dont know much!!!

Thanks again
Nathan

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82800
Nathan

I have a 1998 Allure 30223 with the same engine. I had trouble a while back and replaced the gage. After taking the RV to a dealer to research the problem, they determined it was the gage. I said all that to say I have good info at the gage. My temperature reads 190 to 200 and on a long pull up grades it reads 210. I think the last reply is right on.
Fritz

From: allure012000

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 3:53 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Nathan. Here's input.
1. No Wet Kit Needed on your 98'
2. Sounds like the Radiator could be clogged up and/or need drain & flush and new coolant.
3. Could be bad Coolant Sensor and/or bad Dash Guage
4. You fan is controlled by the older Wax Type Valve
5. Can't help on TV issue

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

wrote:

Quote
>

Great site I have been reading here for some time. We just picked up a 98 Allure with 8.3 Cummins and 40k in miles. Excellent condition I was amazed. I love the look of the older pushers.
> I have read all I can read about the running temp so I need to ask you guys for some help. A one hour run on the interstate with the coach empty temp sets at 220. I pushed it hard to test it out and some easy does it to see if the temp would fall.
> Found a small hydro leak at the fan motor but was just a loose fitting and cleaned the
fins so it could breathe. I know the fan increases RPM with the engine. 220 is hot right? No alarm on the water gauge. Actually changed the gauge in hopes the stock was bad.

Quote
>

Also I read about the wet kit for the PTO, it appears my PTO is not pulling from the transmission but from the flywheel end of the engine. Wet kit still needed? > > Last question the inverter works everything great when the coach is not running, will not run the tv with the engine on? possibly a relay? >

This is our first coach we left the world of 5th wheels.

Thank you for reading and any help that you can give.

Nathan Blackwell
Indiana
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Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82802
Look on the rear of the radiator support bracket for the fan controller. It will have a couple of electrical plugs near by plus a couple of hydraulic lines.
The issue of the tv not working is the result of a cut out relay. It was designed that way on purpose. You can follow the power cord from the tv to a power recepticle. It should have two plugs on it so change plugs and see if the tv now works with the ignition on. If it doesn't, you might have to open up the box and disconnect the power to the relay.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82803
Please note that 220 degree engine coolant at 100 or more outside temperature is somewhat normal. That would make the glycol/water temperature about 120 degrees warmer than the incoming air temperature to the radiator. Also note, that the oil cooler, trans cooler, and over the road air condenser see the 100+ degree air BEFORE it gets to the engine cooling radiator. IF you are seeing 220 at , say 80 degree outside temperature, I would say that you have a problem beginning and should have a look at the system , as it may need cleaning etc. If fluids in your coach, even though low mileage , but by age , would need to be changed/ updated. Simply because a coach has low mileage, doesn't mean that all systems should not be looked at. You have 14 year old grease in the bearings ! They have been " sitting " most of their life. I , personally , don't view higher mileage, as a negative. These components in the running gear of a Motor home are truck systems and can easily go 4 to 500,000 miles. That means that they are getting regular maintenance , and coaches that sit, maintenance is usually an after thought. I would not say the same for cars, as systems aren't designed for the higher mileage. Dealers like to discount the value of a coach , if has more than 15,000 miles per year. That is patently wrong, for the above reasons

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82805
Nate

You don't need a PTO wet kit. Yours is like mine where hyd pump is powered by engine.
The power for the TV is turned off with ignition switch on. I bypassed mine. Had to take the TV out to get to it.

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82806
Thanks Larry, Talked to a RV cooling specialist today. He thought I have a control valve stuck at the fan motor. Going to try to remove and clean tonight.

No wet kit and no Dan Foss control box. Things are looking up. (I hope)

Nathan

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82807
I tried a new gauge yesterday, but used the same ground. Might try a new chassis ground for giggles. Same temp but easier to read, stayed at the 220. Going to make a mess and remove the control valve and see if its stuck.

Thank you
Nathan

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82814
Hi Nathan,

I would look at the grounds for the instrument panel, I have been through that exact experience. In the I had to completely redo the grounds for the front of the coach. I have photos if interested. I can email them to you, to many to put on this site.
You didn't say what engine you have 325hp CTA68.3 mechanical or the electronic 330hp. It helps if you put the serial number of your coach as members that have coaches close to you may have more input.
Anyway the older coaches are great buys. I would make sure that the tire and wheel recalls have been accomplished if you have a slide.
I just came back from a 4 month trip through the Pacific Northwest and Montana, even pulling the big grades I never run over 210, most of the time the temp stays at 180 to 190

Jack Allure 1997 30076 No slide no problems

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82816
I believe that the tv not working with the engine on is a safety device. Mine is the same way.

Tom Coomes
2005 Inspire
51177

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82820
My 98 Allure was one of the last 10 built so I had the ISC electronic engine. I never ever saw more than 200 degrees. I was climbing a 8+ degree grade in Wyoming with an ambient temp of over 100 degrees. I

could smell the anti freeze coolant entering the dash heating system. via the lines. No matter how hard I

pushed the coach in 3rd gear or second at 2200 rpm. 200 degrees was about it. Now my Intrigue has

been a different story, with all the fan controller and radiator issues.
If I had bought a 98 40' Allure or Intrigue instead, I probably would have saved my self $220,000, so far and still climbing. TWI 2004
Intrigue 11731

Original Message:
-----------------

From: Tom Coomes tom.coomes@... Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 16:26:10 -0700 (PDT) To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

I believe that the tv not working with the engine on is a safety device.
Mine is the same way.
Tom Coomes
2005 Inspire
51177

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Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82864
Thank you to all that have replied. My 220 temp is with ambient in the 70 degree area. I removed the hydraulic lines from the wax valve assembly last night and capped them off. The fan went immediately to high. So it appears all is well with the valve. I dont think the high fan is high enough?? I read of dust storms from fans stuck on high from CC owners. Have not as yet been able to find the RPM speed of fan on high. However, I can tell its pulling more air than at warm up temp 120 degrees but not near enough to create a dust storm.
I replaced the water temp gauge at the dash, and also replaced the ground, just in case.

Cleaned the radiator twice now the fins are spotless.
Previous owner never had a heat related issue, never a warning light. The guy appeared to be a maintenance nut the coach runs, looks, smells, drives like new.

Possibly the hydraulic fan motor?

Thank you for reading.
Nathan Blackwell

1998 Allure 8.3 Cummins
Indiana

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82874
A really dumb question but is the fan sucking in from the outside or blowing out from the inside? I worked on one the other day that was running the wrong way....

Mikee

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82884
Not dumb at all, its inside sucking air across rads. I saw some pictures on this forum of a guy who had installed two electric fans on the outside blowing in. Only used when in traffic or the like. Only way to install is to take my rads out. The exterior cover is all one piece going back over the rear tires, bummer.

Thank you
Nathan

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82887
220 is not hot. A lot depends on where the temp is taken. Ie, where the temp sensor is located. The thermostat is probably a 195 degree stat. 220 is about typical. Does it ever get hotter than this? Especially in a long hard pull?

Mikee

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82895
Sending unit???

Temp does not go above 220 on the gauge. I ran around the block got it to 220 used a laser temperature device on the engine bay cooling pipes. Had temps of 160 leaving the motor and about 100 on the return pipe. Temps top of radiator never saw 100. I understand I am measuring the vessel housing the water but would have to be close. I use the measuring tool at work to look for hotspots in electrical panels so its not a cheapo.
Picking up new sending unit tomorrow. Looks like a bugger to get to behind the alternator.
Thanks
Nathan

1998 Allure 8.3 cummins

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82896
These numbers make no sense. The upper hose should have the highest reading. The inlet or lower hose should have the lowest readings. Something is not right here....

Mikee

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82899
Nathan,

I have an ISL 370 so can't speak for your 8.3 and won't debate if 220 is hot or not. I will say that when my fan goes into high, on it's own or forced, you will know it. I can hear and tell the difference even sitting up front.
The reason I am responding is that I did have a bad hydraulic fan motor and could not get the fan over about 1050 RPM's and that was not enough to cool my engine under even small loads. Replaced the fan motor and now my temps are where I want them and that includes pulling those 12,000 foot hills in Colorado. It took much testing and research to come to the conclusion it was the fan motor. A lot of input from this group helped. I have been on this group for about 10 years and to my knowledge mine is the only one that developed a bad fan motor. So it does occur.
On my ISL there are three areas that can cause this type of problem. The pump off the engine, the fan controller, or the fan motor/priority valve.
I had a qualified hydraulic shop test the output from the pump and it checked out fine. I think we were somewhere in SD at the time. Plenty of pressure and I think they ran it to around 3000 PSI. I am very experienced in replacing that fan controller and had tried two of them. That only left the fan motor and that was the problem. I ordered the motor, three month lead time and came from England. Had Fountain RV in Florida do the swap; I could have it done here locally but I like that group in Florida.
I use a digital photo laser tech to check the rpm of my fan blade but as I indicated, if it goes into high you will know it.
You need to determine what the rpm of your fan blade should be. If it is turning too slow then have the pump tested. I don't know how this wax controller works so no comment but it must vary the priority valve attached to the fan motor. If all this checks out then you very well could have a bad fan motor.
You may benefit from subscribing to one of the phone tech support people on this group. I do and get my moneys worth. You will get great advise from all of us but sometimes it's best to pay for technical data that we may not know or have access to. Such may be the case of the rpm range for your fan blade.

Long post but did not know how to state this in a shorter form.

Richard Aquino
2001 Intrigue.

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82903
I very possible remember that wrong. Give a kid a laser temperature tool and everything gets examined!!

Re: 1998 Allure with 8.3 New to me

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82921
I have an SOB with Cummins 8.3C mechanical engine.
In 2005 I had to replace the hydraulic pump, priority valve and fan motor, and radiator. That was not cheap but it did cure my over temp problem.
After 7 years it is just starting to show high temps on long climbs.

Bob Wexler
SOB