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Anifreeze smell in cabin

Yahoo Message Number: 91949
Has anyone experienced a antifreeze smell within the cabin. I have a 1998 40 ft affinity with wabasto heat, the silicone lines run the length of the motorhome. We smell antifreeze once the coach has reach operating temperature. I checked for leaks at the 3 heater cores, no leaks and I don't seem to be loosing any coolant, i question if the silicone hoses are leaching smell from the hoses since they are 15 years old. Any thoughts, or does anyone else have this problem. Thanks

John

1998 affinity 40 ft
455 cat

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 91975
I have a 1998 Magna that had the same problem. You are correct that the coolant leaches from the hoses and will do this even if you attempt to replace the silicone with high quality rubber (which I tried in the interior. The solution is to change the anti freeze from ethylene glycol to propylene glycol. It completely eliminates the smell (over time) and eliminates concerns about the wabasto coolant leaking into the hot water heater and poisoning the potable water. Be sure that you use a brand that meets the specs for the engine. I use Sierra and it works fine. This is not a problem with the newer hydrohot or aquahot systems since they have a coolant system that is separate from the engine and use boiler anti freeze.

Hope this helps,
Bob Barnett
CC Magna #5489

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 91979
Thank you so very much, thats what i needed to now. I was considering changing the lines, thanks again

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92003
Bob,

You mention you are using the sierra coolant, are you adding an additive(sca) for more protection. I notice CAT says the PE Antifreeze must meet standard ASTM-D6211-98, or ASTM D-6210, I don't see that standard on the sierra antifreeze and wonder if its more of a light duty automotive coolant. Can you use the sierra coolant as long as you add SCA, or does that still not bring the coolant up to the 6211 standard. Thanks

John

Affinity 5544 CAT 455

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92027
I have a DD Series 40 engine in my Magna and the Sierra meets the specs for this engine. I do not add any additional additives. I used this product because it was available and met the engine specs. AMSOIL also makes propylene glycol antifreeze and looking at its specs, it may meet your requirements. The spec sheet can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1156.pdf and it mentions heavy diesel engines and additional specs. Other brands are probably also available.
I was motivated by the fact that the ethylene glycol made my coach uninhabitable and the fumes are probably toxic. I have been using the Sierra for several years and have had no problems to date. Saying that may be asking for trouble...

Regards,
Bob

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92031
Something to consider perhaps. Diesel engines owing to high compression ratios (24:1) emit ultra sonic vibrations within the cylinder walls. If proper coolant isn't used the fluid may cavitate over these vibrations.
Over the long haul this results in lost cooling and metal erosion. Small pin holes can develop in the cylinder walls which basically means the engine is trashed. One would assume a diesel rated coolant preparation would address this. In today's times I'd believe none of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see. If the non-toxic propylene-glycol is an exact replacement for ethylene-glycol then one would ask why would ethylene-glycol even be used at all??

**Propylene-glycol has 'increased creep capacity' also known as 'weepage'. Which means it will leak out of systems in which water did not. Something to keep an eye on. Also make sure the PH stays within bounds. Again, I'm assuming propylene-glycol mixes designed for diesel engines will perform as expected. If that assumption is incorrect, it's a BIG price to pay. Also are such "diesel rated" mixtures really non-toxic?? Might be worth checking with the commercial truckers on this. They run long and hard and have many accumulated miles of knowledge about what works and what doesn't. Coolant formulations and their additives are a very complex subject. Not all are created equally or provide equal performance. The goal is to learn about the pros and cons. No one product will be advantageous in all areas under all conditions.

I use Fleetguard ES Complete. The red stuff.

Good luck and safe travels.

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92035
I apologize for hijacking this tread but we are in a situation and cant Access our owners group. Our 2006 affinity has lost water pump connection. Does anyone know where fuse is located? Thanks and again sorry for the way i have entered this question OJinOK

2006 affinity

Sent from OJ iPhone

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92038
Let me amend my response by saying that my engine does require changing the coolant filter at 24K miles intervals and the filter does contain an additive specified by DD.
The problem that I was addressing only applies to late 1990's CC's that have Wabasto systems that share coolant with the engine. They were evidently made before Aquahot/Hydrohot systems were available since these systems have separate coolant systems from the engine that use boiler antifreeze. The problem is very limited but very real in these older coaches and obviously stems from a design flaw that I was not able to fix. Having extensive rubber or silicone hoses throughout the coach that carry ethylene glycol is a serious health and livability problem. The system even routes the engine coolant through the hot water heater where a leak would contaminate the potable water in the coach. I would never consider replacing engine coolant in a properly designed system.
I have a 15 year old coach with 80K miles on the engine (20K using the propylene antifreeze). If the use of propylene glycol reduces my engine life by 50% but allows me to use the coach without damaging my health, I'm not sure I care. New highest quality rubber hoses in the living area did not make much if any difference in living space odor.

Regards,
Bob

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92042
The term used with Propylene Glycol is 'GRAS - Generally Regarded As Safe'.
Note the absence of the word 'non-toxic'. The often called Pink Stuff used to winterize RV freshwater systems is Propylene Glycol based and listed as potable antifreeze. Personally I am not sure that I would want to drink much of the 50/50 mixture but any residue left in the system is harmless.
It is the additives such as anticorrosive agents that give rise to the rather wishy washy term GRAS. I guess that one has to have faith that someone would not mix a toxic substance into the non-toxic Propylene Glycol without labeling the mixture as toxic. However that takes a major dose of faith.

Ethylene Glycol however is indeed toxic. Just ask the many dog owners that have lost their pets that drank it because of it's sweet taste.
Scott I got a big kick out of your statement 'In today's times I'd believe none of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see.' I know what mean but the way you said it struck me funny. Made my day.

Don Seager

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92044
Scott, I read your response to this antifreeze question with much interest. My coach has ES Compleat PG which I believe is propylene-gylcol coolant (it is a light green). I had it checked by my local Cummins Coach Care shop and they said it tested fine.
Now, I recently pulled an oil sample and the report revealed some metal in the oil and 60PPM of potassium. Cummins folks read the report and said that would suggest I have coolant in my oil (they were not concerned about the metal readings). However, I seem to be losing no coolant which they said would usually accompany a potassium level that high. They said I could have a leaking EGR cooler but still believe I would see coolant loss if that was the case.
Current plan is to change my oil and filter, note coolant level, and they put a can of Zerex stop leak in the coolant. They said that was Cummins' first action in suspected EGR cooler leaks. I am to drive at least 1,000 miles and repeat the oil analysis. If there is still evidence of coolant in the oil, they will pull the EGR cooler and pressure test it.
So, reading your post, I now wonder if I need to also switch to the Compleat OAT?

This is giving me heartburn.
Gary

'07 Allure 470 #31578

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92046
Gary

The tech line at Fleetguard told me that the main advantage of OATS over ES Complete is that OATS is more environmentally friendly. You do not have to add the SCA additives to OATS but I my 2006 C-9 coolant still test out to specifications (CAT lab tests) and I have never had to add anything.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92047
I thank you all for your comments on this matter of which coolant is best to use and also to solve the antifreeze smell I have within my interior of my coach. I am needing to change my coolant, for two reasons, one I am going to pull my radiator and have the core replaced and the radiator rebuilt (since the cost is half of a new one) and two since I don't know how old the antifreeze is. Plus, I am currently having issues with the strong "antifreeze"? smell in the cabin of the coach, once it has reached operating temperature. I am considering changing over to the propylene glycol (PE) in hope of solving my interior cabin antifreeze smell. CAT says its ok to use the PG as long as its meets the standard of astm D6211-98. If I could use the Ethylene gycol (EG) I probably would, but I can't take the smell permeating through out the interior of the coach. Unless, only other possibility is that the current antifreeze I have is in my system is old and has chemically changed producing the current smell, but from other comments I currently do believe if I was to change my coolant and put new EG coolant back in I would still have the same smell of antifreeze. If others don't have the same issue of smell, is it because they don't have the Webasto heating system with the heater hoses running inside the length of the coach or they may have the system, but did CC redesign the system and run the heater coolant lines along the underside of the floor removing them from the interior altogether . I do have a passion for my Affinity coach its wonderful, I just have a few issues I would like to correct. I do thank all you for your time and comments, I myself always seem to find it difficult to have the time to have a big write up. If anyone else has had or fixed this problem I do appreciate your comments. Thank you John

1998 Affinity 40 ft Captivia
455 CAT

Re: Anifreeze smell in cabin

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92053
The system does not route the coolant through the water heater. it is a pipe welded to the outside of the water heater. it is physically impossible for this to contaminate the hot water inside the tank. I find the coolant smell very slight. Rich 2002 Magna