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Topic: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED (Read 1737 times) previous topic - next topic
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All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Greetings All,

I have a 36' 2000 Allure "Deschutes" millenium addition.
I believe I've been having a problem with my electrical system somewhere and its taking it out on my batteries.
Thought it was the chassis battery originally so I went and purchased and installed a new interstate chassis battery around June of last year.

I actually was helped through that process by kind folks from the forum (when it was still at yahoo).
The link to that thread is here:
Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ Allis
for the sake of completeness.
 
A few weeks later and the new battery began sweating so I thought there was something wrong with it, so I pulled it out and brought it back to the Interstate store where I had purchased it and they put a load test on it and said it was fine, so I hooked it back up.
I then called and spoke to a gentleman from Lazy Days near Tampa and he said it sounded like the battery was receiving excess charge somehow when the rig sat powered off... maybe a damaged echo charger or some such. He said the batteries sounded like they where somehow getting overcharged. He explained what was sometimes the cause for this and I wish I had written it down! He then told me to go on and just disconnect the negative terminal to prevent further damage until I could get it into repair. This solution appeared to work for many months as no more sweating had been occurring for some time.

Then, I had started a new job around the end of February located up near Lakeland FL. I was at that time residing in Miami, and so drove the coach up to Lakeland for the job.  I had intended to take the Coach into one of the repair facilities up there at some point, but only lasted a few weeks at the job due to the Pandemic outbreak that has now engulfed the globe.
I then decided to drive up to upstate NY to be with my family during this time and so here my coach sits parked in my brother's driveway. However, I'm still having an electrical problem of some kind and I fear its only getting worse. I noticed the sweating problem reappear just before I left FL for NY, and then it only got worse on the trip up.
 
Now, not only is the chassis battery sweating, both deep cycle Lifeline house batteries are have also begun sweating for the last couple of weeks and they appear to be getting worse also. There is also a white dust, or powder forming in places on the outside of all the batteries as well as the tray that they're in. Also, want to mention that I'm still sitting with the negative terminal disconnected and this problem is persisting.

My problem is this...
I'm worried this could turn into a serious electrical problem of some kind that may result in something horrific as I'm living in this thing, but, since its the middle of a Pandemic in the worst place in the country I'm wondering what the heck I gan do as far as receiving help on fixing this thing???

Do you guys think this might be something I could fix on my own?
My brother is an electrician, but he's said repeatedly that he doesn't really understand DC but only AC since that's what he works with. I'm going to dig out the schematic and see if we can figure anything out together.
We did test the batteries with the coach unplugged and with a load on them and they all checked out ok with readings of in-excess of 13 volts I believe. So my brother deduced that they where ok.

However, I'm starting to become very worried by the looks of these batteries, and I believe I'm noticed a steadily growing electric hum in the back of the coach in the bedroom when I'm sleeping.
Also noticing intermittent load clicking and popping sounds that appear to come from the side of the wall with the inverter and batteries around the time the heat pump kicks on or off.
And lastly, was laying in bed just this morning and heard a loud "execution-type" sound, like a jolt of electricity you would hear go through an electrical chair(sorry for gruesome analogy, but's its all I can think of to describe it at the moment :(  ). Thankfully this lated for just a brief moment however and has not reoccurred to my knowledge. So might have been just a momentary power surge maybe. However, that would also be unusual since I don't think that's every happened any time I've ever been here before or since being up here this time.

Any and all help tremendously appreciated here!
Thanks to all and please stay well and healthy!
Best,
-Luke

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #1 –
Appears to be an overcharging issue.  Voltage can be above 13V AND current could be high, creating a overchage/boil/off gas issue.  The white "sweat" is actually acid residue.

Your brother the electrician should have a clamp on AMP meter to measure if there is excess current going to batteries.

Ultimately it may appear the charger is malfunctioning - it should go into float mode (13.2V and minimal current to batteries.  Shut off all 12V loads and test amperage to batteries.  Should be less than 1-2 Amps.

Can you check your charger settings - I assume you have an integral charger/inverter (Xantrex?)  Can you confirm model?

Hope this gets you started.
Brian

EDIT: Just read your other post - you have a solar system as well.  What is the charge controller?  Model?  Is it capable of float charge as well - ie shut off when batteries fully charged - or is it a "dumb" charger?

2007 Country Coach Allure 37 Sunset Bay 400ISL

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #2 –
Wow... thanks a ton for this Brian.
I will check with him, I'm sure he has that device. At first I wasn't sure what it was or how it looked, but I googled it and can say that I've seen this tool in his arsenal, so as soon as we can do this test I'll report back.

I'm not 100% sure how exactly to "Shut off all 12V loads" as you say. I know the bay immediately to the left of the battery bay which houses the fuel filters, has on the right wall a couple of battery "disconnects". One for the chassis, and one for the "domestic" house portion. Are those what you're referring to?

As far as the charger/inverter, we purchased a new Magnum MS Series Model MS2012 (–15B/–20B), Pure Sine Wave Inverter in June of 2014.
Charger Settings:
Amount of Amps that the charger is being allowed to take from AC source: 30
(I know I'm plugged into a 50 amp socket. Could this be the problem?)
Low VAC Dropout-how low of a voltage to accept from an AC source before the inverter will disconnect from an AC source and take over the load itself: 100 volts
Battery Type: AGM1
Absorb Done: AMPS = 20 ADC
Max Charge Rate - how high of a rate to charge batteries, and how much time to charge for: Rate = 100%
Max Charge Time - Safety net to go into effect if no charge stop reason is ever hit, charging params are overridden, and charging is halted: 12hrs
Final Charge Stage: Float


As far as the solar charge controller, it appears to be a "Solar Boost 2000E".
As to whether it is capable of "float charge", I found this in the manual:
"TWO STAGE CHARGE CONTROL
Solar Boost 2000E charges the battery in a two stage charge process, bulk and constant voltage. A third
manually initiated equalization mode is also available to periodically condition liquid electrolyte lead-acid batteries."

And then a little further on in the manual under the "Installation" section I found this:
"SETTING CHARGE VOLTAGE
 Charge voltage should be set to the battery manufacturers recommendations. The factory setting of 14.0 volts is suitable for most lead-acid chemistry
batteries and does not typically require adjustment. For a predominately float application a somewhat lower voltage of 13.8 volts may be beneficial in decreasing
water loss. For a heavily cycling application, a somewhat higher voltage of 14.5V may be beneficial in decreasing charge time and increasing amp-hours delivered.
The adjustment potentiometer location is shown in Figure 3. With the Charge Status LED blinking indicating that the battery at or near full charge, adjust the charge
voltage potentiometer to the desired battery charge voltage as displayed on the 2000E digital display. If optional temperature compensation option is installed,
disable temperature compensation, adjust the charge voltage to the desired 80°F value, and then turn temperature compensation back on."

Not sure if this helps I will attempt to attach the manual for the Solar Boost and Inverter to this post.

If there's anything I need to dig further on, please let me know!
Thanks again a ton Brian!
-Luke

P.S.
Sorry I forgot to mention that the magnum inverter is using the "ME-ARC" control panel.
This video helped me get these settings for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CVd0981Hcc

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #3 –
Great info - directionally I suspect the solar controller may need its settings adjusted to drop to a lower voltage 13.4V max, even 13.2 to provide a lower float voltage and prevent off gassing.

The Magnum inverter/charger is fine, max AC connection of 30A is correct - I believe it only has a 30 breaker feed/pass through max capability anyhow.  No diff if you are connected to 50A or 30A shore power.

Equalization is a high voltage period (greater than 15V) for 15 minutes to deliberately put the batteries into a boil situation which "mixes" the electrolyte solution (poor analogy but it equalizes electrical charge across the entire battery).  Lifeline are the only AGM battery that I am aware of that recommends a periodic equalization - I have always manually initiated an equalization step, and have not done any with my current AGM (Discover Energy brand).

Shutting off all 12V simply means shutting down fridge, furnace, lights, dash loads (GPS, radio etc).  Shutting off disconnects "May" isolate batteries from chargers (MAgnum and Solar) depending on how it was wired.  Batteries should be confirmed they are at full charge.

Hope this helps,
Brian

PS _ You can clean up your batteries with baking soda dissolved in water and lots of fresh water rinse.  That way you can monitor after you reduce solar charger float voltage.

EDIT:  You may want to consider shutting off the solar charging while you are plugged in to shore power - The Magnum charger is a great charger and will keep all 12V and batteries running fine without Solar.  Solar can be enabled when you are boondocking, or in storage without shore hookup.  Again I would reduce solar charge voltage to 13.4V max.
2007 Country Coach Allure 37 Sunset Bay 400ISL

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #4 –
Check your float charge setting on your charger to make sure it is set at the proper voltage for your batteries.  Also, unless you have a temperature sensor on the batteries you may need to adjust the temperature setting in the charger setup for your location.  I'm in Florida and just set my charger for batteries at 80 degrees.  The previous setting was the factory setting at 70 degrees.  That change in temperature setting changed my float charge voltage from 13.5 to 13.3 volts for my wet cell batteries.
pete
2000 40' Magna, CAT C-10. #5892
Pete
 2000 40'  Magna #5892  CAT C-10

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #5 –
Thank you immensely to both BrianGlenn and Pfhays.

You've both given me enough homework to keep me busy for a little while.
I will report back!
Thank you again and please continue to stay healthy and safe!
best,
-Luke

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #6 –
Greetings guys, just wanted to give you a brief update...
I'm presently a little stuck, aside from taking care of other life matters, I'm thinking I should first clean the batteries before I do anything so as to get the most accurate readings.
However, I've had little luck searching the web for info on how to safely do this.

I'm thinking I need to disconnect all the batteries so I can thoroughly scrub/clean the terminals and posts as I've really never done it before in 7 years of ownership (yes... I'm ashamed :( )
I'm pretty sure I need to do the following:
    • Unplug from shore power
    • turn off two main battery disconnects
    • turn off main breaker in coach
    • disconnect wires from all battery terminals

I'm not sure if this is all that needs to be done, or if I' missed something.
Also, I'm not sure as to the order in which these things should occur.

As always, any and all help is immense!
Thanks guys!
Hope all are stying safe, well, and healthy.
-Luke

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #7 –
I have simply used baking soda and water (15ml to 1 cup) and an old toothbrush.  You can pour the mixture over the batteries - just make sure it drains well out of the battery compartment and keep water away from other electrical devices (circuit boards, breaker panel, solenoids, etc).  Once you are done rinse well with fresh water (copious amounts), again mindful of nearby electrical devices.

The runoff water will have some acid (pH less than 7) and can stress vegetation if you are doing it on the lawn - ask me how I know....

I have not turned off 12V power, nor disconnected batteries.  I have turned off the charger (ie unplug from shore power) as a precaution.

Brian
2007 Country Coach Allure 37 Sunset Bay 400ISL

Re: All Batteries Appear to be Out-Gassing and Sweating -- WORRIED

Reply #8 –
Hi Brian,

Thank you again for your reply  :)

That sure does sound easy enough. I just want to reiterate that I've never deep cleaned any of the terminals, and I've had the coach for seven years. I have, a few times in the past, done pretty much as you've described there although now I'm looking at doing that even more rigorously as opposed to the complete disconnecting of all terminals, cleaning(the way you describe), applying dielectric grease, and reconnecting.

Do you think I should perhaps forgo the deep cleaning for now, clean the way your describing, and get to testing?

Thanks again Brian,

Best,
-Luke