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Dust Storm

Yahoo Message Number: 9918
An engine fan running full time in full default or wide open causes several problems. 1. dust,2. not allowing the engine to warm up timely,3. poor fuel mileage, and 4. robbing the power steering, and last but not least the fan motor is not designed to run full time, and will wear out in short order. It amazes me how many owners have this problem without knowing it.

Avery Sloper

32 Allure 2000 30487

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9923
Thanks Larry and Avery. One more question...how would one know they have this problem? I'm assuming it is something that occurs after a coach has aged a bit and not to a new coach. Am I correct?

Carol

'04 Insprire Genoa
'03 Explorer
Fulltimer

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9933
The easiest way to tell is to go to the rear of the coach, look inside the engine compartment at the fan blades. The test should be done when the engine is first started for the day, or when well under operating temperature.
Be sure the dash A/C is turned off. With a flash light, look at the fan blades. If you have started a cold engine and the blades are turning full speed, you have a problem. They should not be turning until needed by higher engine temperature.

Larry
Intrigue
10762

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9946
I have had this problem since coach was new. CC sent me a temperature sensor, that didn't help. Several service centers looked at the problem and couldn't come up with a fix. Finally after over 4 years I am at CC service facility in Junction City, Oregon. At first they told me I would have to pay to have that looked at even though I have complained of the issue to them on the phone, and to the dealer where I bought the coach, numerous times. Yesterday they told me the controller is bad and they will replace it under "GOODWILL" They know this is a problem but they all pretend they don't know what to do about it. CC needs to put a manual together with all these problems and make every employee read and sign that they know and understand the problem and have a company wide understanding of the fix. It is amazing to me that they don't have a uniform way of handling these problems, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, and they don't have rocket scientiest at CC, to figure this out. I will send them my critique once I am out of here, but their service center has serious management problems with unskilled people working on the rigs....due to low pay, I am told. CC service is the biggest disappointment I have encountered as a result of owning a Country Coach motorhome. More folks need to let top management know about any isssues they have with service otherwise it will not get better as long as "Happy" coach owners keep their head in the sand.
Hopefully, the controller with solve this issue without jury rigging a flap under the fan.

Next serious issue to get resolved is the black smoke issue, going to the Cummins Coach Care center to see if they can do what 8 other Cummins centers have been unable to do...remove the problem which causes a billow of black smoke to come from exhaust during acceleration.

Quote from: motorhome992000
>

An engine fan running full time in full default or wide open

causes

Quote
several problems. 1. dust,2. not allowing the engine to warm up > timely,3. poor fuel mileage, and 4. robbing the power steering,

and

Quote
last but not least the fan motor is not designed to run full time, > and will wear out in short order. It amazes me how many owners

have

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9991
Lary:

Do you mean to say they will not be running at all on start up?

Jim

2002 Intrigue 11446

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10003
Yip. That's what the tech at the Tucson rally told me. He said the engine fan should not be operating at all until the engine temperature demands it.
Does anyone disagree? If there is no hydraulic fluid flowing to the fan motor because the valve is closed, then I suppose it would not be turning.

Larry
Intrigue
10762

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10005
I totally agree. My fans were running all the time and I had the factory reset the whatever it is and although the temp fluctuates a lot, ie 188-200, rather than the constant 180, the mileage went up at least .5 mpg, and as many have stated before diesel engines run better at warmer speeds (up to a point). I am just commenting that it really made a difference in the mileage.

Joe and Patti
03 Allure 80542

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10019
CC replaced the fan controller but the fan is still running at a pretty good speed, the manual says it should idle until temp reaches 185 degrees. It is possible that the controller did not fix the problem.

Quote from: Larry Hanson
> Yip. That's what the tech at the Tucson rally told me. He said the
engine fan should not be operating at all until the engine temperature demands it.

Quote
>

Does anyone disagree? If there is no hydraulic fluid flowing to
the fan motor because the valve is closed, then I suppose it would not be turning.

Quote
Larry
Intrigue
10762

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10023
Larry, I had the same trouble. They replaced the controller, re-programmed it and I still made dust storms. Finally, a Tech at Buddy Gregg's in Dallas found the wire from the heat sensor to the controller was too close to a hot source ( the exhausat I think ). Once that was taken care of the fan has operated properly.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10035
I have a 2000 Magna # 5811 and on that earlier model 2000 I still have the mechanical governor that cannot be adjusted. However, I have added the baffle which is simply a piece of aluminum 4' long and 8"wide. This is istalled on the bottom of the shroud with a 4" overlap and it has improved the blowing dust problem about 85%. I got it from the factory and I highly recommend it.

Ken

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10036
Hi Larry,

I do disagree... The fan at idle when cold will turn at low RPM's and I think that's normal. I don't beleive the valve is designed to totally shut off the fluid. Mine turns a little all the time and the Foretravel I had with 2 fans did the same thing and they said it was normal. Clutch fans on our big trucks also turn a little when cold. I can usually control the dust at campgrounds by turning off the A/C, providing the engine temp is down. Just my two cents worth..

Tom

02 Allure 30780

Dust Storm

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15576
Just wanted to pass along info for those who have had this problem and never got it solved. I recently discovered that the air sensor in the intake pipe of the turbo system is the culprit for my coach.
During the manufacturing process the sensor was installed in such a manner that the sensor constantly collects water from the condensation of the compressed air in the pipe. If the sensor had been installed in the top of the pipe with the "cup" of the sensor pointing down then this would not be a problem. In my opinion, the manufacturer, CC or their vendor, should issue a bulletin and fix this problem by moving the sensor.

This is definitely a design deficiency which has been corrected on later models built by CC, so they became aware of the problem at some point but failed to take the next step of correcting those units already in customers care. Does anyone know what steps are required to get CC to issue a formal campaign to fix this problem?

As a result of my finding and fixing this problem I now get 8mpg vs the 6.5 mpg I was getting prior to this fix and the new fuel injectors that Cummins replaced. Cummins engineers actually identified the sensor problem while troubleshooting my black smoke problem.

My reason for posting this message is to alert those who have had the problem to this possible solution. So much better than a kluged up baffle system and a fan running at high speed robbing the coach of power and costing extra fuel.
Ray

2000 Intrigue 11040

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15595
We purchased a 99 Intrigue last May. I seem to have the same problem with the cooling fan that you described. My first clue was I cleaned all the leaves off the street when driving to my storage lot.
1. Where can I get a replacement sensor?
2. Is this something I can replace myself?
3 How can I check the sensor?

Thank you,

Everett Smith
99 Intrigue 10758

P. S.

Candy,

I hope I signed this correctly

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15605
Yes, you can get the sensors from CC and yes you can easily replace them yourself. There are two sensors and then the AC unit has a relay which is energized whenever you have the dash air on. You might also have a bad fan controller as well. CC will email you a sheet with the troubleshooting procedures to determine if your sensor is bad.
Ray

Quote from: Everett Smith
> We purchased a 99 Intrigue last May. I seem to have the same
problem with the cooling fan that you described. My first clue was I cleaned all the leaves off the street when driving to my storage lot.

Quote
1. Where can I get a replacement sensor? > 2. Is this something I can replace myself? > 3 How can I check the sensor?

Thank you,

Everett Smith
99 Intrigue 10758

P. S.

Candy,

I hope I signed this correctly

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15636
Does anyone here have those CC troubleshooting procedures? If so, why not post them to the files folder so everyone can benefit.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Quote from: travman100
Yes, you can get the sensors from CC and yes you can easily

replace

Quote
them yourself. There are two sensors and then the AC unit has a > relay which is energized whenever you have the dash air on. You > might also have a bad fan controller as well. CC will email you a > sheet with the troubleshooting procedures to determine if your > sensor is bad.

Ray

[quote author=Everett Smith"

> We purchased a 99 Intrigue last May. I seem to have the same > problem with the cooling fan that you described. My first clue

was

Quote
I cleaned all the leaves off the street when driving to my storage > lot.

> 1. Where can I get a replacement sensor? > > 2. Is this something I can replace myself? > > 3 How can I check the sensor? > >

> Thank you,
>

> Everett Smith
> 99 Intrigue 10758
>

> P. S.
>

> Candy,
>

> I hope I signed this correctly > >

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15639
Jim,

They are in the Files section under file calle fan.pdf, I think that is the one you are referring to.
Ray

Quote from: Jim Hughes
Does anyone here have those CC troubleshooting procedures? If so, > why not post them to the files folder so everyone can benefit.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

[quote author=travman100"

>

> Yes, you can get the sensors from CC and yes you can easily > replace

> them yourself. There are two sensors and then the AC unit has a > > relay which is energized whenever you have the dash air on. You > > might also have a bad fan controller as well. CC will email you

a

Quote
sheet with the troubleshooting procedures to determine if your > > sensor is bad.
>
> Ray
>
>

[quote author=Everett Smith"
>]
> > We purchased a 99 Intrigue last May. I seem to have the same > > problem with the cooling fan that you described. My first clue > was

> I cleaned all the leaves off the street when driving to my

storage

Quote
lot.

> > 1. Where can I get a replacement sensor? > > > 2. Is this something I can replace myself? > > > 3 How can I check the sensor? > > >

> > Thank you,
> >

> > Everett Smith
> > 99 Intrigue 10758
> >

> > P. S.
> >

> > Candy,
> >

> > I hope I signed this correctly > > >

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15682
Hi Ray,

Could you please tell me, step by step, how to get the files you were telling about. I tried to download the pdi checklist, and and it acted as if I did, but then when I tried to get into it, it told me I couldn't , because of some dumb reason, I didn't understand.
Thanks,#31022 04Allure The LIVELYS

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15703
Ray

The file you mentioned is for the controller that I had posted some time ago. I thought maybe the was a different troubleshooting guide for the sensors. Thanks for the response.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Quote from: travman100
Jim,

They are in the Files section under file calle fan.pdf, I think

that

Quote
is the one you are referring to.

Ray

[quote author=Jim Hughes"

>

> Does anyone here have those CC troubleshooting procedures? If

so,

Quote
why not post them to the files folder so everyone can benefit.
>

> Jim Hughes

> 2000 Allure #30511
>
>
>

[quote author=travman100"
>]
> >

> > Yes, you can get the sensors from CC and yes you can easily > > replace

> > them yourself. There are two sensors and then the AC unit has

a

Quote
> relay which is energized whenever you have the dash air on.

You

Quote
> might also have a bad fan controller as well. CC will email

you

Quote
a

> > sheet with the troubleshooting procedures to determine if your > > > sensor is bad.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >

[quote author=Everett Smith"
> >]
> > > We purchased a 99 Intrigue last May. I seem to have the

same

Quote
> problem with the cooling fan that you described. My first

clue

Quote
was

> > I cleaned all the leaves off the street when driving to my > storage
> > lot.

> > > 1. Where can I get a replacement sensor? > > > > 2. Is this something I can replace myself? > > > > 3 How can I check the sensor? > > > >

> > > Thank you,
> > >

> > > Everett Smith
> > > 99 Intrigue 10758
> > >

> > > P. S.
> > >

> > > Candy,
> > >

> > > I hope I signed this correctly > > > >

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 15724
Jim,

I think that is the only T/S bulletin that CC has sent out, if you scroll down to around page 3, it shows steps to be taken to isolate fan problem to one of the sensors. That is the one that CC emailed to me when I was trying to determine if the air sensor was bad by measuring resistance at the fan controller plug.

Ray

2000 Intrigue 11040

Quote from: Jim Hughes
Ray

The file you mentioned is for the controller that I had posted

some

Quote
time ago. I thought maybe the was a different troubleshooting

guide

Quote
for the sensors. Thanks for the response.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

[quote author=travman100"

>

> Jim,
>

> They are in the Files section under file calle fan.pdf, I think > that

> is the one you are referring to.
>
> Ray
>
>

[quote author=Jim Hughes"
>]
> >

> > Does anyone here have those CC troubleshooting procedures? If > so,

> > why not post them to the files folder so everyone can benefit.
> >

> > Jim Hughes

> > 2000 Allure #30511
> >
> >
> >

[quote author=travman100"
> >]
> > >

> > > Yes, you can get the sensors from CC and yes you can easily > > > replace

> > > them yourself. There are two sensors and then the AC unit

has

Quote
a

> > > relay which is energized whenever you have the dash air on.
You

> > > might also have a bad fan controller as well. CC will email > you
> a

> > > sheet with the troubleshooting procedures to determine if

your

Quote
> > sensor is bad.
> > >
> > > Ray
> > >
> > >

[quote author=Everett Smith"
> > >]
> > > > We purchased a 99 Intrigue last May. I seem to have the > same

> > > problem with the cooling fan that you described. My first > clue
> > was

> > > I cleaned all the leaves off the street when driving to my > > storage
> > > lot.

> > > > 1. Where can I get a replacement sensor? > > > > > 2. Is this something I can replace myself? > > > > > 3 How can I check the sensor? > > > > >

> > > > Thank you,
> > > >

> > > > Everett Smith
> > > > 99 Intrigue 10758
> > > >

> > > > P. S.
> > > >

> > > > Candy,
> > > >

> > > > I hope I signed this correctly > > > > >

Re: Dust Storm

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25081
Ray and Bob -

We have a 2000 Allure #30536 and last week the Cummins facility in Coburg, OR replaced the fan controller and this has finally - after six years - ended our dust storm issue. We know of one other coach - an Intrigue that also had the fan controller replaced and they no longer have the dust storm problem. Their repair was done in Colton, CA.
When entering or exiting a camp ground, you almost wished you had black out windows so people could not see who was driving and heaven forbid if your new neighbors were enjoying the outdoors when you pulled in. You could drive them into their coach very quickly.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us directly.

Kathy Marsh