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Coach now a nitemare

Yahoo Message Number: 13487
Bill G,

You can't be serious.
John and Merilee Flynn
99 Intrigue

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13497
Flynn,

I certain am! When I worked I had to make decisions like this everyday and some were worth millions. It does not matter wheather it involves $10 or 200,000. sometimes you need to step back, bite the bullet and get on with life. It does not matter wheather it is a new coach or your own body. Lawyers can't solve everything thank god, but then again a lot of people think they can.

Bill G. 2005 Magna 6425

Coach now a nitemare

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13504
Gabler,

As long as supposed intelligent people who spend $300,000 to a Million dollars on a new coach, are willing to step back, bite the bullit and get on with life when taking delivery of a new coach full of problems because they know that its not as bad as some other brand or that nothing in life is perfect, you can bet that they will never improve their product. Why should they? We are our own worst enemies. This is what this site is all about. These folks were out there all alone and look at all that has happened. Both Country Coach and Lazy Days know that we are all involved and offering advice based on our rving experiences and having bought numerous rvs. At least they now have a fighting chance.
In my optomistic mind, this could be a wakeup call for CC.

John and Merilee Flynn
99 Intrigue 10877

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Coach now a nitemare

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13506
Just wondering, does the boating industry have all of the problems that seem to be cropping up in the MH industry? Gee, I would hate to buy a $400,000 cruiser and go out into the Gulf of Mexico and have a problem that would leave me "dead in the water".

Egon

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13513
John,

What's the wake up call, they have been working on the problem for a month. Lazy Days does not build the product, they are just trying to make everybody happy. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. You are only hearing one side of the story. If you walk thru Lazy Days lot right now you will see that just about their entire stock of CCs are sold and gone. Somebody must be doing something right, but not perfect. Sure the Crown club is full of coaches in for repairs but that's life when you drive a moving earthquake down a bumpy road.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13514
Bill G

Those of us who have been down this road before understand your point of view. However, this is a new owner and in my opinion, someone dropped the ball big time. I remember that not so long ago CC was sweating declining coach sales, in part, because of numerous quality problems. I love my CC and would not consider another brand, but there are a lot of people out there that used to say the same thing about Safari. It troubles me to think about all the future coach sales that may have been lost while waiting for LD and CC to decide they really do appreciate this new owner's concern about his dream. I think we're all dreamers at heart or we would find a better way to spend our money.

Gary Stanton
2002 Intrigue

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13517
Guys,

There must be something I'm missing about all this. To this point no one has quite been able to explain to me why it should be acceptable for this coach to leave Junction City with this problem and then for Lazy Days to try and deliver it to the cusxtomer with this problem. Makes me think back to the days when the Japanese cars began to take over the automobile market because the Big 3 thought we would be willing to put up with poor quality control because of brand loyalty. Remember what happened? I wonder how many of the people who buy foreign cars because of the quality issue are willing to put up with poor quality in their coach? By the way, if I'm going to spend $300,000 to sit at some fancy resort, it would not be the Crown Club at Lazy Days. I'm thinking LaPlaya Resort in Naples, Fl. maybe.
Lets just hope it all works out for Gary.

John and Merilee Flynn
99 Intrigue 10877

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13518
John and Marilee

I think you said it well! Assuming the story as we have heard it is correct, whoever approved this coach for shipment should be fired. If he or she let it ship because top management forced them to do it, then Mr. Howard should go. Whatever happened in Junction City can obviously happen again unless something changes permanently. This situation started out in this forum as a LD problem when in fact LD was caught in the middle after the coach had shipped.

Gary Stanton

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13528
I've been watching this whole senario unfold with great interest. A quick flashback..... I met Gabler at the reunion this year. He took me through his beautiful new coach, told me of the problems that he had encountered, mostly with tile and window placement, and I went ahead and ordered my Magna which is being delivered to me tomorrow (6477M). He didn't tell me JUST of his 'problems', but told me about how good almost everything about the coach was. I also spoke with the owner of 6424 and 6417, both had some problems, one with a turbo seal which could have been considered really major - but, CC took care of it, and everyone else within the scope of their ability.
Let's be realistic, has anyone bought a house, new or used, that has been totally "without problem"? I think not. And these don't even have to be driven from lot to lot. Anytime you put sticks and wires together, something, just might happen to not fit, or work, and it has to be adjusted, or re-engineered, by the factory, or the dealer, to make it work as it was planned to do.

Now we are addressing the foreign automobile producers, to, what I presume is, "show Country Coach what we could do to them if they aren't careful". This is the same kind of a threat the "sue happy" legal community wants you to think. Let's sue the bastards into submission! We'll show 'em. Now, let's really take a look at the foreign cars. Mercedes and BMW, long the world standard of quality, have gone way ahead in the use of fibre optics, and microcontrollers, composite materials and networking - and they are now thought of as some of the most problem plagued cars in the automotive industry.
Does this mean they are 'bad' cars?, -no, they just have some very expensive problems that have to be regularly adressed. Same with the Asian cars, good? -yes, problems? -yes, will be buy more of them? probably yes. The Americans now build a pretty reliable product. As does Country Coach. If you think there are problems here, you should look at some of the other industries that build low volume, highly specialized, products. I've flown airplanes, brand new, from Boeing that were filled with problems - potentially life threatening problems! Yet, Boeing addressed the problem(s) - and either fixed them, or developed an acceptable work around. Why we think we're alone with our relatively "minor" problems is beyond me. I personally restore classic cars, Auburns and Cords out of the 1930's. The Cord invented front wheel drive way before Olds or Honda ever had the idea to do so. The Cord transmission didn't work real well, but the industry (the AMERICAN industry) continued to improve on the idea and we came us with the Olds Toronado with front wheel drive in 1966. We 'work on' and we 'improve on' continually, that's why American industry continues to survive today, and will continue to survive in the future.

I've had three Country Coaches and have no intention of changing brands now. I know many of the idiosyncracies with the brand and know who to call if I have a problem. 99.9% of the time it is fixed in a matter of a very short period of time, by sending me a replacement part or advising me where I should look to fix the situation. The slide problem? They'll fix it, it's as simple as that!

I'm willing to bet that 10% of the cost being built into each new coach is to take care of administrative matters regarding to legal issues, both at the factory and at the dealership. 10% of the price of a new Magna is right in the vicinity of $50 grand. I for one would rather have that money in my pocket rather than in the pocket of some lawyer or legal firm.

I think everyone should sit back, take a breath of air, and put our feet back onto the ground - and use our head to think rather than our mouth's to simply spout off. Let's use the forum to generate constructive ideas, thoughts, hints, places to use or visit, etc., rather than to be so distructive in our tone.

So! that's all I have to say.

Hal Bjorklund

MAGNA6477 - delivery date 12/13/04 - that's tomorrow

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote from: tjf2000us
Guys,

There must be something I'm missing about all this. To this point > no one has quite been able to explain to me why it should be > acceptable for this coach to leave Junction City with this problem > and then for Lazy Days to try and deliver it to the cusxtomer with > this problem. Makes me think back to the days when the Japanese > cars began to take over the automobile market because the Big 3 > thought we would be willing to put up with poor quality control > because of brand loyalty. Remember what happened? I wonder how > many of the people who buy foreign cars because of the quality issue

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13529
And it was well said, Hal. But even with all of the great things that American industry does, the bottom line in this issue is Quality Control. The person responsible for allowing that coach to leave the factory with the defect that from what was said was very obvious, should be fired or disciplined. If it is a corporate decision to let such an error leave the factory, then Mr. Howard needs to answer for it. I'm not a big corporation that can purchase a Boeing 747, but my piddly little $300,000 deserves a quality product. I expect things to go wrong, but not things that can be found by the 50 mile shake- down drive (such as the fact that the cruise control didn't work on my coach when it was delivered to me), and by the visual inspections that supposedly occur with each coach.

I hope you enjoy your new coach! AND I hope you have no big issues to deal with when you do take delivery. If you do, you will have several sypmathetic ears here. >>

Carol

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13530
Agreed...

AND, $300 grand isn't 'piddly' !!

Maybe we should suggest an "oversight" review board to Jay...

I just don't like a "sue the bastards" attitude. What can I say?

Hal

Quote from: jennylindca"
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The person responsible for allowing that coach to leave the factory with the defect that from what was said was very obvious, should be fired or disciplined. If it is a corporate decision to let such an error leave the factory, then Mr. Howard needs to answer for it.

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13531
Hal,

your message is very interesting reading. I think the message I get from it is this "If you are wealthy enough to keep buying country coach after county coach then you will be happy because you will only have to put with with a problem for coach for a year or two." However, if you are like many people who work hard, save their money and plan to buy a single retirement coach, with no plans to buy another then Country Coach is probably not the right coach with all it's expensive maintenance problems. Better for that category of person to buy a much less expensive coach, then put the remaining 2 or 3 hundred thousand in the bank and plan to use that money to maintain their "cheaper coach" in the event they run into serious problems with it.

What I've learned is that unless you wish to spend months on end driving to Oregon to negotiate with them to try and get them to fix your coach then you should probably not be buying a Country Coach.

I think you are correct about Mercedes, not so sure about your comments lumping BMW into the Mercedes category. Mercedes has always been known to have many maintenance problems, not so with BMW, at least not with the owners I've met. Now, having said that, it appears that the Country Coach defects are primarily due to a serious lack of someone of a higher pay grade paying attention to their QC program.
Most of the problems appear to stem from a lack of a QC program which would correct the defects before an owner receives the coach. And, a serious problem is that if you don't live close to the factory and you are unable to get the problems resolved within the first year then you are out of luck....the Country Coach mantra once that happens is "You are out of Warranty" even though they promised on the phone that they would take care of these problems if you will just drive 3000 miles to visit them. My whole point is that a buyer of a Country Coach is no more likely to be happy with his purchase than is a Bounder purchaser if the Country Coach purchaser is unlucky enough to get one of the rigs with hidden defects which continue to recur even after a deligent effort to resolve those problems during the 1st year of ownership. The Country Coach owner who happens to be lucky enough to get a coach with few problems or if the problems are all worked out during the 1st year of ownership is going to be an advocate for Country Coach.

Country Coach management needs to change their attitude and work harder to make every Country Coach owner an advocate, they can do that fairly cheaply, imo, by taking care of all problems identified during the 1st year even after several years have gone by and the problem continues to recur. It is possible that they don't do this, and their written warranty states clearly they don't do this, because they figure there are enough richer folks out there who will keep trading in on the new models and who don't mind taking a financial bath every year or two and who are so enamored with the Country Coach name that they will put up with the lack of a real QC program which if in place would result in the delivery of a near perfect coach.

Hope your new Magna meets with your expectations, if not then what the heck you can trade it in next year on an 07, only cost you a couple hundred thousand loss in value. Probably peanuts to most Country Coach buyers!

I continue to think that a Coach Manufacturer who delivers a coach to a dealer which has a wall with an incorrect opening in it should be caught by someone at the factory and corrected at the factory. Heck, the floor sweeper could probably have told them they had a problem in that coach....now if they could only get a QC person to identify the problem....or more interestingly is it possible that the QC person did identify the problem but in their rush to get coaches out the door, management said "send it to Lazy Days they'll fix it!!!"
One thing you can say for Country Coach is that they have the finest parts department in the industry, you need a part you call them, they ship it to you. Most manufacturers won't do that, they require you to go through a dealer. Sure hope they keep the parts department as it currently exists.

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13533
From: "travman100" travman100@...> (snip) > I think you are correct about Mercedes, not so sure about your comments lumping BMW into the Mercedes category. Mercedes has always been known to have many maintenance problems, not so with BMW, at least not with the owners I've met. (snip) According to *Consumer Reports* April '04 Annual Auto Issue, BMW isn't as "bad" as Mercedes, but they have many black marks in the "cooling," "electrical," and "power equipment" categories. Acura, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus and Toyota have the best reliability records by far, overall. But, rather than take info out of context, check the magazine in your local library if you want details.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13534
Guys,

First I thought I was missing something about this whole scenario.
Now I think I and others must have a problem explaining our thoughts on this issue. I don't remember anyone telling Gary to sue the bastards. I do remember folks recomending legal help to protect his interests, which I'm sure Country Coach and Lazy Days do all the time. That step would not have necessary if the coach had not left the factory the way it was. Out here if you bought a house for $300,000 you would use a realtor and title co.. I understand back east you would use a realtor and an attorney. Does that make you easterners sue happy?

I'm happy that there are some folks that buy new coaches every two years. That keeps the marketplace supplied with coaches with the bugs worked out. Hopefully!!! Me, I like to buy some property when getting a coach. Kind of offsets the depriciation.
This whole thing isn't about how much you pay for your coach or how often you trade, it's about Country Coach upgrading their efforts in seeing that the coaches leaving the factory are checked, rechecked and then fixed if necessary. Kinda like they tell ya when you take the factory tour. It's also about the dealers doing a better job of checking the coaches when they are delivered from the factory, and then making an honest decision about whether it is truly a fixit problem or should go back to be done right. I'll bet most folks would rather be diapointed about delivery date than face the problem Gary is. So what if you have to wait a few weeks to show off your new coach.

I remember last year when we were at Guaranty getting some work done on our coach. There was a Lexa park accross from us and my wife kept telling me that the Lexa was calling her name. It kept telling her she should have one. Next she went inside one. Thought I'd never get her out. She was ready to sell the house and buy a Lexa.
Then she found out the one in for repair had been either at Country Coach, Guaranty or Carrier and Sons for over six months trying to fix it. One of the techs that worked on it said the only way to fix it was to tear the house part down and start over. Whether design flaws or quality control the result was the same. Whether it's a pretty pile of horse crap or an ugly pile of horse crap, it still stinks.

A lot of people have weighed in on this one. To a person I think we are all loyal Country Coach owners or wannabes. We just want our company to truly build and deliver "THE WORLD'S FINEST MOTOR COACH". I still do and will continue to proudly have the CC sticer on the back window of the Jeep.

John and Merilee Flynn
99 Intrigue 10877

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13536
Hello Folks, I just joined the group, so forgive me for jumping in in the middle.

Just a note to add to the mix. I bought a new 2004 Allure in June from Damon Rapozo at Guaranty RV in Oregon. There were a few things that needed to be corrected, but I expected this. The few that were the responsibility of Guaranty they took care of post haste.
Similarly, the CC tech support staff has been very responsive. I've had the unit in to dealers twice to correct minor problems, and the CC team has approved the work and it didn't cost me a dime and was done to perfection.

I guess I'm one of those that will continue to believe that CC builds the finest rigs on the road until I start having serious problems they won't fix. But their attitude so far is a great consolation and I just can't see that happening.

For me, my glass is half full. See you on the road.

Jim Mercer in Albuquerque.

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13537
Quote
Similarly, the CC tech support staff has been very responsive. I've >had the unit in to dealers twice to correct minor problems, and the >CC team has approved the work and it didn't cost me a dime and was >done to perfection.
How much of your time has this required? How many miles have you put on your coach driving to/from to get these things fixed? How much do you estimate that your time is worth? Just some things to think about especially after you purchased a top dollar coach.
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13538
Travman

6 year old Magna, only big problems ride height valves & creeping seals in windows...96 Intrigue before that, no problems. I have never been broken down, towed or stranded in 9 years of owning CC's & I expect most owners have the same experiences. These forums attract people with problems & are not truly representative of all owners. I hope others lurkers on this forum that have had few or no problems will speak up.

Terry

99 Magna 5703
Fulltimer

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13539
Terry,

You are so right! I am highly skeptical on complaints on this and the Open Roads Forum when we only have the complainer's side of the story. Perhaps this original post is a valid complaint, perhaps it is not. I am not prepared to say based on what I read here. We bought ours 5 years old, and have had no significant problems with it. We did have a failed brake chamber, but brake chambers are something every over-the-road truck uses. Lucklily it happened in the driveway, and I learned how to change, and carry a spare. We've been highly satisfied with ours, and would not hesitate to buy another if we had the money!:)

Per

Affinity 5259

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13540
OK, here goes, the minor thing that have been wrong on my '99 Allure are really not worth mentioning, period. CC built me one heck of a coach and if I ever decide that I need another one it will be a CC.
The major problems that I had with my coach were Cummins related.
First weekend out the shaft on the fuel injector pump broke and we had the iol blow by problem also. Cummins was Johnny on the spot and fixed everything. Then New Years of '02 whild coming through Nashville the oild pressure sensor went south and left us in a parking lot. Again Cummins has us in a shop News Years Eve and out before 7 that night.

Now that problem did get me upset at Cummins after the tech told me that the sensor going bad was a known occurance around 30,000 miles.
I think we had about 28,000 on it at that time.
What I did not understand is why didn't Cummins put out a recall and replace the sensors? Did not get a good answer from them especially after I told them that at 60 miles per hour the engine just shut down with absolutely no warning. I did kind of surprise me but was able to let it coast into a rest area, but don's know what would have happened if my wife had been driving.
As far as my CC--I am tickled pink with it, keep the fuel tank full, fridge stocked so that we can get on the road in a very short time.
Hope to see you on the road, stay safe and stay between the ditches and keep the shiny side up.

"Laissez Les Bon Temps Rouller"

Egon

'99 Allure #30321
'02 Tahoe Z71

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13541
Quote from: Per Korslund\[br\
]
Terry,

You are so right! I am highly skeptical on complaints on this and the Open Roads Forum when we only have the complainer's side of the story.
You need to spend a few days at Camp Country Coach and then you probably wouldn't be quite as skeptical.

Travman

2000 Intrigue 11040

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13542
Hal,

Even If I had a major issue on my new Magna I would not put it on this board. There are to many people that like to tell other people to sue the bastard. That's easy to say when you sit on a computer. Once you have been in court a few time and see the cost of being sued you think twice. I know more about this story then I will tell because I don't think it's anybody's business but the owner and CC. By the way I don't hear anyone bring down Honda for their fire engines. But then again they are Japanese and they can't do anything wrong. Sure glad they don't build motorhomes.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425 (and not afraid to list my coach number)

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13543
I heard no one tell Gary to sue the bastards. He was, as mentioned in a previous post advised to seek legal counsel to be certain his rights are honored, not to sue the bastards.

No one has said they had a Honda that started fire, only that they had heard that it was an issue. If they had, a trip to an attorney would not be out of the question, IMO, to determine their rights and to be certain that they are honored. We all have rights in the marketplace, but the corporations (either American or foreign) usually take advantage of our lack of knowledge of those rights.
Hence, the need for trial lawyers, like it or not.

The owner in this instance, asked for our input. He got it. In spades!

Carol

'04 Inspire 51046(yes, it IS an Country Coach LOL)

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13544
I'm glad everyone is tickled pink with their Country Coach. So am I except for the electrolysis on the door that they knew was happening on coaches but kept doing it the same old way. They did send me the fixit kit free and I thank them for that. But, what does all of this have to do with the problem of them letting a coach like Gary's leave the factory. Apples and oranges.
As for him putting his problem on this site, isn't that what it's all about. To me it's no different then asking what to do about ride height problems or who makes the best toad breaking system.
But then, I only own an old 99 coach. What do I know. Just hope I can get as much feedback when I have a problem. You guys have been great.

John and Merilee Flynn
99 Intrigue 10877

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13546
Travman100,

I have been there, and did not see anything that changed my mind!
Per

Affinity 5259

Re: Coach now a nitemare

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13547
OK OK OK Why don't we give this subject a rest, not continually apply CPR.
I think it is time we asked our moderator to insist that members put their coach numbers with their posts so that we have a better idea of whom we are writing to.
This forum was for CC owners. I don't mind outsiders reading the content but get miffed when owners of SOB's start dinging CC and don't even list what they own and in some cases not even a name.
I also think we should remember that we do not have all the facts and should not rush to judgement.

Let's move on.

David & Karen

2000 Intrigue 11062
40 ft Single slide. PT
2002 Odyssey TOAD