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Generator Start Issues

Yahoo Message Number: 50240
I'm on a business trip in CA and my wife is in the coach in toasty Seattle. The RV park is loosing power and our generator won't start without using the battery boost switch which means we can't even set up the auto start. Since I can't look at the schematics and I know my chassis battery is good (it's only 2 months old and cranks the C13 with no issues) I am assuming that this might mean my AGM's are weak? I haven't run the coach on battery for quite some time so I don't really know how long they last but they seem to be ok. Any thoughts?

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Re: Generator Start Issues

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50243
I don't have the technical answer for this, but the same thing happened to us last year.
I replaced the AGM's and the problem was solved.

Dick B

04 Intrigue #11830

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50244
I'd like to try equalizing before I spend the bucks on new batteries (already "wetted" PTO and replaced fan controller) this month. Since the inverter will only equalize for 3 hours and Lifeline says 8 hours I was thinking I would run two consecutive equalize cycles followed by a manually terminated 2 hour cycle.
Does anything need to be disconnected while this process is taking place?

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50248
Hi Bob S,

Depending on what brand and model inverter/charger you have, equalization voltage can be over 15 VDC, some as high as 15.5 VDC. You can do damage to anything that is powered with 12 VDC. I would turn off anything that has 12 VDC power to it especially for a eight hour equalization period.

At Red Bluff RV Park,

Chuck & Mary B

Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat

Re: Generator Start Issues

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50249
Do a load test on your AGMs. Many auto shops and probably all battery shops would have a load tester. You can also get a good indication from a volt meter. 12.6+ volts is a 100% battery. 11.9 volts is a 40% charged battery.
My 2004 AGMs are running strong. Maybe there's a bad battery connection to your generator?

Larry 03 Allure, 30856

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50256
I don't think you equalize AGM batteries ... check with an expert.
They don't have a vent, and equalizing really puts the juice to them.

Please proceed with caution here ...

John

2007 Magna 6760

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50260
The AGM manufacture or reseller had me do an equalization on my batteries. They get warm, but no harm was done. Batteries were later replaced.

Sincerely,

Jim Spivey

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50262
Jim is not an expert, and I am not either.

Google AGM Equalize or similar and decide for yourself.
I spent $1600 replacing year old AGM house batteries when the good folks at CC configured my inverter/charger wrong and I wasn't smart enough to catch the error.

Whatever ...

John

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50263
Thanks John, but I was merely relaying on what Lifeline had told me.
Jim Spivey

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50264
John, the Lifeline battery manual lists equalizing (conditioning) as a possible fix for low battery performance. There is a pressure vent on the battery for this purpose.
Larry, I think I'll equalize first and then load test if that doesn't work as maneuvering the coach into most battery test places in Seattle is not fun and taking the batteries out at 165lbs a piece is more than my back likes to handle.
I'll probably disconnect most of the 12vdc stuff before equalizing even though most 12vdc things are rated for 11-16vdc.
Thanks for all the suggestions, gives me things to think about. It's what this group is about.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50268
Bob, I suggest that you do a search on the word "desulphation". This will identify three messages which may prove helpful in your effort to save your AGM batteries.

George not in BIrmingham (in Santa Fe) '04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50272
OK Bob, good luck, but I don't think you have to take the batteries out to do a load test. They should be able to roll up the load tester to the coach and connect the cable to the batteries with no problem.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50281
Most local AutoZone parts store us a portable load tester for batteries.

At Red Bluff RV Park,

Chuck & Mary B

Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50284
Bob, you can equalize Lifelines. Have done twice with no problem. One thing you can watch is if they get hot, then they probably were sulfated. Mine did not even get warm and probably did not really need much equalization.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50285

Bob:

I have equalize charged my batteries numerous times. I would encourage you to disconnect all 12 V loads. On my coach (2002 Allure) the house battery disconnect disconnects all loads except the one to the panasonic radio/ backup camera which provides power to the memory circuits. Yours will likely be different and the best thing to do is check your wiring diagram and identify any wire numbers that run off the house battery before the disconnect switch. That way you will be sure you don't fry anything.
The other thing I would check, as someone else pointed out is the connections to the genset, including the ground. A lose or corroded ground could easily be the culprit.
Finally I have never been convinced or understood why CC would start the genset with the house battery. I know they will tell you that is how it is wired at the rallies, but why would you do it that way. If you are dry camping the house battery is the one that is going to be depleted and need charging. So if its at 50% why would you want to rely on it to start the genstet to recharge it. Makes no sense to me. I recently had an experience with mine that pretty definitively told me that the chassis battery has to be in good shape to start the genset.

Good luck

Bob Amory

2002 Allure 30760


From: Bob Stephens
To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:46:49 PM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

John, the Lifeline battery manual lists equalizing (conditioning) as a possible fix for low battery performance. There is a pressure vent on the battery for this purpose.
Larry, I think I'll equalize first and then load test if that doesn't work as maneuvering the coach into most battery test places in Seattle is not fun and taking the batteries out at 165lbs a piece is more than my back likes to handle.
I'll probably disconnect most of the 12vdc stuff before equalizing even though most 12vdc things are rated for 11-16vdc.
Thanks for all the suggestions, gives me things to think about. It's what this group is about.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

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Re: Generator Start Issues

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50287
Extensive testing at Cummins South, Orlando, has determined that the cable that runs from the batteries to the generator needs to be replaced. After a year and half we find that the cable is the culprit, not SilverLeaf as everyone from SilverLeaf , Country Coach to Buddy Gregg had thought. Yesterday, Cummins discovered a 4 to 5 volt loss between the batteries and the 42 feet to the generator. With our original cable, the voltage at 13 plus volts, the generator is just barely able turn over. We had Cummins test with their recommended new, larger cable to insure the installation of this new cable would resolve the problem. Cummins had the generator leaping to a start even as low as 11.5 volts with the new cable. Has anyone experienced this hard starting generator problem?

Bob Mussman

2006 Allure 470 31434

Re: Generator Start Issues and Equalizing

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50288
Hi Bob A,

Depends on how you look at it. I would rather my genset be hooked to house batteries so that if my chassis batteries fail, I could get the coach started with the boost switch if you have one. That way I'm not stuck at my location. Could work either way. I have never been a fan of battery equalization charging.
PulseTech puts out a PowerPluse Battery Maintainer that uses a patented ReNew IT Pulse Technology to help make the batteries work harder and last longer by preventing the main cause of battery problems and failure: sulfation buildup on the battery plates. The unit send a low voltage high frequency pulse into the batteries once every 2 or so seconds.
Go to www.pulsetech.net and key in powerpluse in their search box. Around $50.00 for one for each bank of batteries. I still have the orginal batteries in my coach since Jan, 2004. I never let them drop below 11.8 VDC. I have my genset auto start feature to start the genset at that voltage.

At Red Bluff RV Park,

Chuck & Mary B

Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat

Re: Generator Start Issues

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50291
It would seem highly unlikely that the cable itself is at fault, unless it never conducted adequate current.
Most probably there is a connection issue. If the cable terminals are crimped, and assuming there are a couple slack inches available to work with, I would install new end terminals prior to replacing the entire cable. Ideally, the terminals should be soldered, not just crimped.

.

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

Re: Generator Start Issues

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50293
It would be interesting to know the size cable you currently have and the size cable Cummins used. Also, did Cummins depend on the existing ground connection, or did they use a new cable for the ground as well?
The reason I am asking is if they used a new ground cable also, I would first suspect a ground connection as the problem. If not then it was likely the size cable and a voltage drop problem. If same size cable using existing ground, there may be what someone else mention, bad terminal connections.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Generator Start Issues - Equalizing AGM's

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50295
Actually Jim you are the expert ... at least compared to me.

The book says no problem. My apologies.
I do remember the CC guy telling me to set the equalize to off after my less than stellar experience. The charger was set to wet cell, not AGM. This was most likely more than just the equalize setting, but more the charging profile. Cooked the house batteries good .. all swelled up and the vents all popped.
BTW, the inverter(s) is(are) hard wired to the house batteries, no disconnect. Not sure if that matters unless outside forces were brought into the picture like maybe during some type of testing.

John
 

Re: Generator Start Issues

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50314
Maybe I worded my comment wrong, The cable NEVER provided adequate power. CC admited this fact and have paid for many of these cables to be changed. My check was for over $2,000.

Bob Mussman
2006 Allure 470