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Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #50 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50630
---Gentlemen the question about bottoming out is an excellent one. If your shock is really stiff, when you hit a small abutment one could easily say that you bottomed out but it could really be the shock doing it's job. I am going to change to Road Kings in the fall when we get to California. At that time I will report back to the group , as to the result. Virtually all the 09 Magna's with the 20K have the wrong shocks. I was told this by CC engineering . They put the shock from the 16K front end on the early coaches ( from the same manufacturer as the 20k front end )They told me they would change them later.I picked mine up Oct 1st 08. No such luck. So I have a shock from a lighter front end( I do have some bounce ) but there are occasions where it feels as though it bottoms out. There are good points by Bob H and Mikee. I disagree with Bob H that by increasing the air bag pressure (and thereby changing the height ) that you are not changing the spring "rate ". Regardless of valving , when you hit an abutment your bag is in a steady state, so letting air in or out is not a factor . If you run 20# in your car tire versus 40#, it is clear you would get a softer ride, and therefore it relates to side wall flex. The same thing applies to the bag.

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #52 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50644
Bob,

If you ever get in my area come on by.. I will find the problem . I have said what I have to say, any more is just repeating myself. Hopefully, someone with one of the coaches that "bottom out" will come by and we can get this figured out.
Did you get a change to find the answers to the questions I asked yesterday?

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #53 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50645
I understand what CC uses to set ride height, I know those numbers, that is why I asked what is the actual height of the bag itself.

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #54 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50659
Mikee,

This has been an interesting topic to follow and I appreciate your in depth input. Even though I don't bottom out, I do bounce more than I find acceptable. I won't be in your area until next spring but would like to come see you then if I'm still bouncing.

Jerry

'07 Allure 31485

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #55 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50664
Quote from: Robert Handren

> Our Inspire is grossly misloaded. There is less than 300lbs capacity left over the rear axel and as noted about 3,000 under maximum on the front................I am also mystified how you could have 1,000 lbs more than us. I don't have my coach literature here but as I recall our front suspension is rated at 12,000 lbs and is carrying a little over 9,000 thus the 3,000 net capacity.
Bob: Your front axle should be rated for 13,200. Rear at 20,000 for a total of 33,200.
We have adopted a weight shifting plan to load the front end as much as possible. That means in the basement and in the cupboards in the main cabin. Everything heavy like full bottles, books, etc. are kept in forward cabinets. Light stuff goes back. We still approach our rear limit just like you do. But the front axle loading seems off compared to yours. We don't really carry a lot of heavy junk with us and as you know the forward cabinets are smaller than the rear ones so there is a limit to how much weight shifting you can do. But I am reasonably sure that we weighed around 11,000 on the front (I'll check the ticket this evening) - with full fuel, 1/2 water and sewage pumped. That's how I usually weigh it. If you are at 9,000, it's hard to understand that difference. Do you have any unusual weight behind the rear wheels which would lift the front?

ROwen 05 Inspire 51442

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #56 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50665
Has anyone with the "bottoming out" problem noted how it is affected when full of fuel and/or water(potable & waste)? This might provide an important clue to determine the cause.

Tom Fisher

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #57 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50670
I'd be happy to have you bounce on over...

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #58 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50703
You're right, front gross max is 13,200. Relying on memory again, my bad.

Factory weights from the sheet that came with the coach:
4850 driver side front passenger side front 4850, 13,200 max = 3,500 left for cargo
9750 driver side rear passenger side rear 9800, 20,000 max = 450 left for cargo
The coach has been weighed twice since it left the factory - can't find the darn reports but not much change other than expected with some fluids and property on board.
There is no way short of hauling lead or depleted uranium that we can get anything like 3,500 lbs added to the front weight. I think at last weigh-in I can accurately estimate we've added about 500 up there by adding 2 more house batteries, keep the fuel tank as full as possoble, and everything of any weight jammed in the bays.
With the rear suspension right at max permissable load and the front extremely light in comparison I think this is the obvious place to look for at least part of cause of the problems for our coach. The dramatic effect shifting weight forward has darn near confirms it to me.
We are leaving tomorrow AM for a week at a rally so I can't get under the rig to measure things like bag height - sorry Mikee just can't do it right now. Assuming Holland-Neway knows how to design a front suspension I am sure they would have something to say about the weight distribution and handling issues but they don't/won't deal with anyone who isn't an OEM.
At this point the coach is handling the best it ever has and better than anything else I've owned. If it can be made better yet and bottoming all but eliminated (you can always go too fast over too big a bump) I am all ears but otherwise I am out of ideas and I haven't heard a better explanation than the unusual weight distribution and light front end loading.
I hope Mikee is successful in finding some common denominator. Until then I keep watching the weight, mine and the coach's.

Bob Handren
Inspire 51178

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #59 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50707
Bob: FYI, I found a print out in the box of manuals which I am thinking is the original factory weights for my MOHO. It's a simple color pic of the 4 wheels with weights for each. There is no way of telling but I assume this is the one. Here's what it says: front left 5613; front right 5379 (2208 under on the front); rear left 9695; rear left 9648 (657 under). That leaves me with a total CCC of 2865. My on-the road weight is now 11580 on the front (1620 under) and 19760 on the rear (240 under) so I have added about 1000 lbs. If the factory is trying to replicate the info on the tag in the cupboard, they may have measured with full water and added for passengers. I weigh at half water so that picks up another 400 lbs or so and the passenger load is stated at 750 (for 5) so I suppose my load could be about 1600 lbs which seems reasonable to me.
I measured the front air bags - they are 9" from the top of the bag to the bottom of the base plate.

The puzzle for me is why is your front so much lighter than mine??

Have a good trip.

ROwen 05 Inspire 51442

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #60 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50733
Let's try to compare why our would weigh so much less.
We have the 7500 Onan Quiet (HAH!) Diesel, no roll out mechanism, stick your head through a little hole.
KVH In-motion sat TV

Power gear leveling jacks
32" Panasonic LCD TV

Not much else than the usual seats, snack tray, rear TV, etc.

Rig is an ABCD = 4 slides and helps explain heavy rear.
Which front suspension system do you have, make, model? Sound the same as ours but...

Bob Handren
Inspire 51178

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #61 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50751
Bob: Your coach sounds identical to mine except that I have only 3 slides. Otherwise, everything you mention is the same. I dumped the heavy rear TV for a flat screen. I have 4 6V deep cycle batteries.
Anyone else have an Inspire in this range (51150-51500)? If so, what's your front axle weigh? I don't get it.

ROwen

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #62 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50758
Are they both 40 ft?

I weighed mine in Jan. 09
Front 11,300 lbs
Rear 19760 lbs

At first opportunity, i will get all 4 points weighed

Gil Bourdon
'05 Inspire 40'
51322

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #63 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50759

Bob: Your coach sounds identical to mine except that I have only 3 slides. Otherwise, everything you mention is the same. I dumped the heavy rear TV for a flat screen. I have 4 6V deep cycle batteries.

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #64 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50760
Ous is 36'.

Drove about 200 miles yesterday, first time with 6-GC2 6V batts - best handling yet. When new I felt I was trying to keep the rig straight driving on ice. All the corrections wore me out. Yesterday I hardly had to move the wheel.

Weight is absolutely an issue.

Bob Handren
Inspire 51178

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #65 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50762
ROwen,

I don't think my last message got posted.

I have 05 Inspire Genoa with 3 slides. #51399 Front axel weight in June of 07 was 10940 lbs. (Have newer weights but filed aboard motorhome which is not at home right now.) Rear was 21340 lbs with full dress Harley on rear rack (800 lbs well back of rear axel) so it was a little over but drove pretty well. The front end bottoms out occasionally with or without the Harley. New Koni FSD's this Spring didn't seem to help on trip to Alaska (no Harley).

John

05 Inspire #51399

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #66 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50783
Quote from: Robert Handren
Ous is 36'.
Oh - I think that explains it!

ROwen 05 Inspire 51442

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #68 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50788
Quote from: Robert Handren
How so?
Bob: The way I do the math, the average weight of a 40' is about 750 lbs per ft. Take out 4 ft., that would be minus 3000 for a 36 ft. But of course you can't take out the average because all of the main components are the same on the 2 coaches. Still, there has to be some difference since there is 4 ft. less of chassis, walls, roof, floor, etc. so the difference we were talking about seems reasonable to me and any other difference not in the coach itself is probably explained by the different "stuff" we have loaded forward in our coach.
John's numbers for his Genoa also seem to bear that out.
I always thought that the Sienna's had a different number group but I guess all Inspires follow the 5 series numbers.

ROwen 05 Inspire DaVince 40' 51442

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #69 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50789
John: I think you should put the Harley on the front!!!

ROwen 05 Inspire DaVinci 51442
 

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #70 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50791
That's what I need, a Harley for the front end. Let me talk to the wife. After all it's a safety issue isn't it?

Bob Handren
Inspire 51178