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About the Hydra Hot System?

Yahoo Message Number: 55258
I have not used the Diesel Burner much other than to check to make sure it was working OK., until now, we are snowbirding in Fl this year and the temp gets down to the low 40's and the electric doesn't seem like it will keep up using Hot water and heat also.. and being in the CG(using the diesel burner) I can smell the diesel strong outside., and noise also. Don't want to gas out my neighbors...
I was wanting to know if it is possible to convert the Hydra Hot to Propane? I have this huge propane tank and only a cook top that uses propane and we don't use it that much, my thinking is that it would relieve the smell and also be more efficient? A thought anyway. Has anyone tried this or can it be done? Marvin 07 Allure, 321459

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55259
Quote
I was wanting to know if it is possible to convert the Hydra Hot to >Propane? I have this huge propane tank and only a cook top that uses >propane and we don't use it that much, my thinking is that it would relieve >the smell and also be more efficient? A >thought anyway. Has anyone tried >this or can it be done?
To diminish the smell, you might be able to replace the Webasto unit with an Espar such as http://www.boatelectric.com/D12.htm In contrast with the Webasto, the Espar has mutiple firing levels allowing it to run as low as 5000 Btu/hr. Thus it tends to cycle on/off much less often producing less smoke and odor.
In cold weather(30F or lower), the typical 40ft coach requires 5000 to 10,000 Btu/hr to maintain 70F inside. Thus the Espar would tend to cycle between low and medium burn where the Webasto would cycle full on and then off......with a puff of smoke and odor at each cycle.

TF(AKASAC)

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55260
In theory it can be done, and probably in a more straight forward manner than diesel, ie you do not have to have a compressor vaporize the fuel. As a practical manner, the it would have to be engineered by the company, tested, type accepted, all that.

Contact the heater company to see if they have done that.
Let us know how that goes. A replacement burner would be a great addition to our capabilities.
Someone on here, or other forums, posted a "muffler refit" that helped the noise. The beer drinkers next to me more than make up for any racket I make.
Something else to look for- my exhaust elbow had been smashed, hampering fuel mixture. Once I fixed that, it was better.
Jack Nichols 2003 Intrigue, with diesel Hurricane - recently tuned up, very low level of fumes and noise.

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55261
I wonder what would happen if you routed your AquaHot exhaust through a bucket of water?

JIM

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55266
Marvin

Why would the propane be more efficient than diesel? Doesn't diesel have more BTUs per gallon that propane?
Also, I don't have much of an oder problem with my Hurricane unit. Could it be that your Aquahot needs servicing/adjustments. Also, the noise doesn't seem any louder to me than a typical propane HW heater.

Larry, 30 Allure, 30856

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55267
Normally when it is cold enough to need the HydroHot most of your neighbors are probably inside with the windows closed. When ever you burn diesel there will be some residual smell. The Webasto burner in the HydroHot is not efficient as some like the Hurricane. Regardless of how close you crank it down you can only lessen the smell. Propane as efficiently as it burns does have an exhaust smell.
AquaHot has recently released a propane model heating unit similar to the diesel but it burns propane. Converting you existing furnace would not be practical so to burn propane you will likely have to replace it. I don't know how one on one the replacement would be but I can tell you that the AquaHot propane unit is far far from cheap. You can check it out at their web site.
As an alternative you can install a Venturi type exhaust stack to get the exhaust up in the air 12 to 14 feet. This at least gets it off of you neighbor's patio and helps but still with the right wind you are going to smell it. There is a commercially made product that has been mentioned here Maybe someone that remembers the name will chime in. Not very practical if you are on the move a lot but if stationary it might help a lot at a good deal cheaper than a propane replacement.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55271
Larry,

Propane does contain less BTUs per gallon but it can be burned considerably more efficiently than diesel. That simply means that more of the BTUs in the gallon gets converted to heat energy with less by-products of the combustion process (less exhaust fumes etc.) Potentially it should take less gallons of diesel to produce the same amount of BTUs but so much of the available is wasted in the combustion process that propane and diesel are reasonably competitive. Natural gas contains more BTUs per cubic ft than propane but is seldom handled as a liquid for most domestic purposes. Note that I didn't say that it isn't sold in liquid form but containing it is more difficult than propane and there is an extensive piping system in place that moves it as a gas.
Your Hurricane burns quite a lot more efficiently that a Webasto and that is why fumes are less of a problem. Also the Hurricane has a muffler that help with the noise factor. Still and all I had a Hurricane and there are diesel fumes. No way to avoid it if you burn diesel fuel.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55272
I looked into this once: Diesel as I recall, has something like 50% nore BTU's per gallon than propane. Do the math. Your CC fuel tank should be enough to run a Hydro Hot for months in cold weather.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55274
You are correct Don, a properly running Hurricane has hardly any detectable smell.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55276
Quote
Propane does contain less BTUs per gallon but it can be burned considerably >more efficiently than diesel.

That simply means that more of the BTUs in the gallon gets converted to >heat energy with less by-products of the combustion process (less exhaust
Have never heard this. Can you provide some reference? AFAIK, they both provide 70-80% efficiencey.

TF(AKASAC)

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55277
Justbecause you have never heard of it does not make the facts false. It is common knowledge that both propane and natural gas can obtain burner efficiencies in the mid to upper 90 % range. As long as the flame is adjusted to a blue flame with no yellow you will be in that range. Just look at the number of in house space heaters that require no chimney in most states. Try that with a force fed diesel burner. Fork lifts are designed to burn propane so they can be used inside buildings. Only the best designed high pressure oil burners can burn at 85%. 65% is more the norm for the Webasto.
Ever notice that most states will allow PVC as an exhaust for a gas water heater or furnace. Not so with a #2 fuel burner. I am sorry Tom but I learned this years ago at Wentworth Institute. The proof is all around you. References can be found all over the Internet. If you doubt me you do the homework.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55278
Found an interesting reference claiming 95% for propane and 85% for diesel / fuel oil.

http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/heating-propane-vs-oil/
From personal experience, I doubt this. Of course I do agree that it is much easier to burn propane cleaner than one can burn diesel. My experience with my Espar H10, is that it burns very clean with very little if any odor.
This has also been noted by others comparing it with the Webasto in their HydroHot units.
My own experience with drycamping in remote areas of Colorado and needing heating every/all night for a month, is that hunting down and refilling with propane would have been a real PITA. My neighbors were doing that with their Suburban furnace and were not happy campers. All I needed was a full tank of diesel, and all my needs were taken care of for at least a month. IF I needed more all I had to do was take two six gallon tanks down to the nearest diesel station and I was set for another 1-2wks.

TF(AKASAC)

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55279
Of course, IF one could easily carry around enough LNG it would easily beat everything else for both efficiency and unit price.

TF(AKASAC)

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55283

First off: Happy New Year to All...
Don, I had no intention of riping out the entire unit, I was just exploring the possibilities, I have run diesel equipment all my life and maybe I am a little to used to the smell. I do have a large built in propane tank, 19.5 gal I think and the only propane I uses is the cook top which we do not use that much either, so I haul around a full tank of propane., now if I understand T. Bone Pickens and some of the other guru's, propane is better even if I do loose a few BTU's, I probably will never get into the really cold weather to where that would be a problem and 2nd, most winter CGs have propane delivered to the site., 3rd we have a ventless fireplace in our living room at home and I have never smelled it burning, it does indeed give off lots of heat..4th, I would not want a coach blowing diesel fumes onto my site either., so it does not leave much of an alternative but to not use it unless absoluty necessary., and with the maintaince that it requires, I think I would rather have the storage space....Maybe time will tell...I might try the bucket of water deal and but a little dish dertergent in it so it will distract from the smell..
Marvin 31459

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55284
Running the exhaust thru a bucket of water will increase the back pressure on the unit, it may exceed the max restriction as designed by the maker.
If you have any noticeable smell from the aqua hot, hydro hot, etc, something is wrong. It is a diesel burner, just like units in houses that use oil heat. House units offer no smell.
Some things to consider when you have a smell. smell is caused by incomplete combustion, this is caused by either not enough air, or too much fuel or fuel that is not atomized correctly. If the unit has been serviced (new nozzle, filter, etc) and still smells look for the source of fresh air to the unit. Some of the units I have seen had no provision to get outside air to the unit. These units need unrestricted outside air. A quick check is to run the unit with the compartment door open. Another thing to check is to be sure the burner unit's pressure is set high enough to atomize the fuel when it goes thru the nozzle.
If running the unit with the compartment door open helps , see if you can figure out a way to get more air to the unit. Another thing that has been successful is to use a nozzle slightly smaller than the suggested one. This will cause the unit to run a little longer, due to btu decrease, but may eliminate the smell. These burners are not rocket science, they are just like home units, but smaller in most cases.
There should be no noticeable smell from them. If you are in a subdivision that has oil heat in the homes and you smell the diesel, well your nose is most likely very sensitive, sorry. Not trying to make anyone mad, but these units should not smell.

I hope these thoughts help.

Mikee
 

Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55285

Mikee,

I think you are probably right about the burner, my coach has never been any further North than NC, and South to Fl., so the Furnace has not been used hardly any at all, I was trying to exercise it in this little cold snap that we have been going thro., I also think that the humidity has some effect on the smell, it will compress the vapors to the ground., we have a service guy in the CG that has a good reputation on knowledge of MHs, I will get his opinion but did not want to get into some hugh project since I only use it once or twice a season. I do have heat pumps that work really well, but the noise inside is more than the HH...
Thanks for all the replys, it does help when facing obstacles such as this..
Marvin 31459
: "Mbaul@..."

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 10:18:53 AM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: About the Hydra Hot System?

Running the exhaust thru a bucket of water will increase the back pressure on the unit, it may exceed the max restriction as designed by the maker.
If you have any noticeable smell from the aqua hot, hydro hot, etc, something is wrong. It is a diesel burner, just like units in houses that use oil heat. House units offer no smell.
Some things to consider when you have a smell. smell is caused by incomplete combustion, this is caused by either not enough air, or too much fuel or fuel that is not atomized correctly. If the unit has been serviced (new nozzle, filter, etc) and still smells look for the source of fresh air to the unit. Some of the units I have seen had no provision to get outside air to the unit. These units need unrestricted outside air. A quick check is to run the unit with the compartment door open. Another thing to check is to be sure the burner unit's pressure is set high enough to atomize the fuel when it goes thru the nozzle.
If running the unit with the compartment door open helps , see if you can figure out a way to get more air to the unit. Another thing that has been successful is to use a nozzle slightly smaller than the suggested one. This will cause the unit to run a little longer, due to btu decrease, but may eliminate the smell. These burners are not rocket science, they are just like home units, but smaller in most cases.
There should be no noticeable smell from them. If you are in a subdivision that has oil heat in the homes and you smell the diesel, well your nose is most likely very sensitive, sorry. Not trying to make anyone mad, but these units should not smell.

I hope these thoughts help.

Mikee

In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:54:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, marvin.thigpen@ yahoo.com writes: