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Air Conditioning Problems

Yahoo Message Number: 65890
I have a 2008 Intrigue Ovation and my Air Conditioning thermostat will turn on and read all 3 of my AC units for about 5 or 10 minutes then it no longer sees AC units 2 or 3 and only # 1and then just seems to freeze up and I have no control of any of them. The thermostat won't even see the other units and I have no control of them but they are all on and I have to shut them off with the circuit breakers. Now I go away for a day turn them all on it works fine for 10 minutes or so and the same thing happens again. I had the thermostat replaced to no avail, again all AC run fine and on first glance it appears to be a thermostat problem. It has been in for service for this problem twice and the solution can't seem to be found. Any thoughts, I could use some help. I am in the Los Angeles area.

Ben Kitay

2008 Intrigue #12247

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65891
Are these Dometic units? If so they use a modular cord with modular connectors RJ14. Or do they use some other way to communicate with the other units? check the cabling between units 1 and the others with a cable tester. Sounds to me like a cabling problem like an intermittant connection.
Then I could be wrong and it could be a heat problem in #2 unit's control circuitry.

Jon Baum

Magna 2K 5923

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65892

I agree with Jon's premise. Check the connections for the data cable. Sounds like you could have some corrosion or moisture in the plugs. Make sure they are clean and put a thin coat of vaseline on them.
Dave

aka Billy Byte (trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65893
If these are RV Comfort (Coleman) units suggest you drop the filter panel on each ceiling unit and check each of the wire connections on the controll module(s).

Jim 07 Allure #31570

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65895
Ben,

Are the Aquahot heat zones on the same thermostat. If so can you control them?

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65903

Don,

Yes they are and I can not control anything when this happens it just freezes up and only sees one of the AC units. but as I mentioned all this is intermittent.

Ben

2008 Irtrigue #12247

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65911
Ben, you might try performing the Comfort Control "System Reset" as follows:
1. Turn the ON/OFF switch to the "Off" position. 2. Simultaneously depress and hold the MODE and Zone push-bottons while turning the On/Off switch to "ON. FF should appear in LCD display until the mode and zone push-bottons are released.

I agree with others it really sounds like an electrical connection problem but the above action is simple and worth a try.
Also we have to presume all you units on the roof have their "dip switches" set properly.

thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65913
?
Ben,

The way most of these systems work is there is usually a main control module located in one of the AC units. On mine it is the Zone 1 AC or the front one. The job of this control module is to interpret the digital commands coming from the thermostat over flat phone wire and then pass on the control command to the appropriate control module in each ACs 1,2 or 3 as well as the control module in the Aquahot. In other word this main control module is the dispatcher for the commands being sent by the thermostat.
If there is a bad connector on any of the phone cables it can cause this type of problem. It is usually at the connectors either on the back of the thermostat or those located in each ac unit or the AquaHot. On my Dometic ACs I can gain access by removing the filter covers and there is a bundle of phone connectors usually tie wrapped. To check out the control module connections you may have to get on the roof and pull the covers. The wire itself seldom fails unless it is rubbing against something.
If the wiring doesn't have any intermittent failures (touch and move the connectors and the unit starts and stops) then I would suspect the main control module. A possible reason that you are seeing 1 AC on the thermostat is that the Aquahot only has 2 zones and it is only those two zones where a main control module is needed to distinguish AquaHot command from AC commands. There is a different logic path for the 1 AC that is not on a zone control along with the AquaHot.
I had a similar problem that drove me nuts for 6 months. On mine it was only the rear zone that would not work at all and nothing showed up on the thermostat. Finally I found it when I pulled the filter cover on the rear AC (only have 2). I touched the phone wire bundle and it started to work. Remove finger and it quit. A phone connector had completely corroded pins and some missing. Bingo finally,

Good luck with it. They can be a real pain.

Don Seager'

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65914
Another place you might check. I have a 97' so this is guess work. In my electrical bay is a metal box that has all the relays and a bunch of diodes with leads under screws. I found one screw that was loose, also check all wire connectors for tight. Helped for awhile, but my final problem was the DIP switch in AC one. It would not stay in place. For less then $3.00 I got one at Radio Shack and with VERY careful work, replaced it on the board. Works great now. As with the others, suspect wiring or DIP switch.

Good Luck. Took me a year to finally find and fix it because it was come and go as well.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65915
Quote
Quote from: Don Seager"

Don,

How interesting. A few years ago I went through the same hassle. I found that one of the whiskers in the data cable RJ11 cable connector was bent in such a way that contact was not being made. In the course of events I had replaced that RJ11 and things would still not work. Long story short, There is such a thing as a reverse RJ11 and that is the one that had the bent whisker contact. Could not find a reverse RJ11 so I repaired the original and everything worked. Now, many did not believe me about an RJ11 connector that reverses the wires in and the wires out. It is true and one of the techs, I think Kevin Waite, confirmed it but initially he didn't believe it either. The question never answered was why did CC use the reverse connector. I think it may have been by accident and they altered something on the other end to create another reverse thus putting things back in the same order.
Hope this is not too confusing.
Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740

Ben,
> The way most of these systems work is there is usually a main control module located in one of the AC units. On mine it is the Zone 1 AC or the front one. The job of this control module is to interpret the digital commands coming from the thermostat over flat phone wire and then pass on the control command to the appropriate control module in each ACs 1,2 or 3 as well as the control module in the Aquahot. In other word this main control module is the dispatcher for the commands being sent by the thermostat.
> If there is a bad connector on any of the phone cables it can cause this type of problem. It is usually at the connectors either on the back of the thermostat or those located in each ac unit or the AquaHot. On my Dometic ACs I can gain access by removing the filter covers and there is a bundle of phone connectors usually tie wrapped. To check out the control module connections you may have to get on the roof and pull the covers. The wire itself seldom fails unless it is rubbing against something.
> If the wiring doesn't have any intermittent failures (touch and move the connectors and the unit starts and stops) then I would suspect the main control module. A possible reason that you are seeing 1 AC on the thermostat is that the Aquahot only has 2 zones and it is only those two zones where a main control module is needed to distinguish AquaHot command from AC commands There is a different logic path for the 1 AC that is not on a zone control along with the AquaHot.
> I had a similar problem that drove me nuts for 6 months. On mine it was only the rear zone that would not work at all and nothing showed up on the thermostat. Finally I found it when I pulled the filter cover on the rear AC (only have 2). I touched the phone wire bundle and it started to work. Remove finger and it quit. A phone connector had completely corroded pins and some missing. Bingo finally, >

Good luck with it. They can be a real pain.

Don Seager'

2004 Allure 31046

Don,

Yes they are and I can not control anything when this happens it just freezes up and only sees one of the AC units. but as I mentioned all this is intermittent.

Ben

2008 Irtrigue #12247

From: Don Seager

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, November 25, 2010 12:54:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Air Conditioning Problems >

Ben,
> Are the Aquahot heat zones on the same thermostat. If so can you control them? >

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046
> I have a 2008 Intrigue Ovation and my Air Conditioning thermostat will turn on and read all 3 of my AC units for about 5 or 10 minutes then it no longer sees AC units 2 or 3 and only # 1and then just seems to freeze up and I have no control of any of them. The thermostat won't even see the other units and I have no control of them but they are all on and I have to shut them off with the circuit breakers. Now I go away for a day turn them all on it works fine for 10 minutes or so and the same thing happens again. I had the thermostat replaced to no avail, again all AC run fine and on first glance it appears to be a thermostat problem. It has been in for service for this problem twice and the solution can't seem to be found. Any thoughts, I could use some help. I am in the Los Angeles area.

Ben Kitay

2008 Intrigue #12247

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65916
Should have also shared. One can get a feel of your DIP switches by simple working them and make sure they SNAP real good in place. Depends on switch design, you may be able to visual check the position of the DIP switch that they are all the way in the direction they are suppose to be. If one is closer the center then sides, probably bad. Also if you cycle the DIP's then see what happens in the thermostat. Be sure all 120 is turned off before you start working in that area.

Leonard Kerns

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65943

Hi Mike,

What are "dip switches"
Ben

2008 Intrigue
#12247


From: allure012000 To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 10:55:26 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Ben, you might try performing the Comfort Control "System Reset" as follows:
1. Turn the ON/OFF switch to the "Off" position. 2. Simultaneously depress and hold the MODE and Zone push-bottons while turning the On/Off switch to "ON. FF should appear in LCD display until the mode and zone push-bottons are released.

I agree with others it really sounds like an electrical connection problem but the above action is simple and worth a try.
Also we have to presume all you units on the roof have their "dip switches" set properly.

thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

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Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65944
I'm not MIke, but go to Google and type in dip switch. Will find several pictures and lots of information.

Leonard
97' Magna

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65945

Leonard, I got it...google, this is starting to go over my head at least the dip switch stuff. I am getting alot of help from you guys. Thanks for your response.



Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65946
Hi Ben,

I'am presuming you have Dometic units? If so you should have in your Country Coach File Box a "Dometic Manual" you should find a heading titled "Electronic Control Kit Configuration", herein describes the "dip switches" they are located up on the roof unit under the shroud and within the electric box on the curb side of A/C unit.
There are 8 dip switches that are set either "off" or "on" depending on what your coach/manual tells you. Should you not have a Dometic Manual in your coach go to Google and type in "dometic a/c dip switches" and you will find a complete Dometic Manual to review.

By the way did you try doing the Comfort Control Reset?

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65948
Ben,

Are you running the air conditioner or the heat pumps? Either way, first check that your thermostat is on either all air or all heat pumps for all three zones. In the heat pump mode, there is a reversing valve in each unit that makes the freon travel in the opposite direction for the heat pump. The heat pump no longer operates if the outside temps get around 35 degrees. In the heat pump mode, if the unit ices up, the unit will go into a defrost mode to melt the ice. That mode produces a moaning type sound. A stuck reversing valve in one of the units can cause the problem you are having. There are dip switches (option setting switches) on the circuit board in each air unit. Depending on the year of the unit, the option board can be located in one of two places. One needs to go "up on the roof". (old song) Remove the shroud cover off the unit. On the passenger side there is a box with a wiring diagram on its cover. Remove the cover to expose the circuit board with the option switches on it. Be sure to turn off the 120 vac circuit breaker to that air.
The other place is in the return air area under the filter. The dip switches determine which zone is assigned to the unit, if that unit controls heating, and a couple of other items. See your manual for further instructions. There are a couple of wiring harnesses going from the return air area up into the box where the circuit board lives. On some units, Dometic did not seal off the hole the wires go through. That would cause condensation to accumulate in the box that the circuit board lives in. Dometic recommends sealing the hole with rope cauwk.

Chuck B
SOB
 

Re: Air Conditioning Problems

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 65951
Ben,

There are a few point here to consider in helping to narrow down the trouble shooting a bit.
You said that the units run of for 5 or 10 minutes before the problem occurs. First have the units ever run ok?
Even if not the fact that they run normally for up to 10 minutes tends to discount things that would likely cause them to not run correctly at all. While I wouldn't discount dip switches completely it seems that if they were set wrong the problem would occur right away. Secondly what would have changed them unless someone did that when you had it in for service twice. Seems unlikely unless wherever you took it didn't have a clue what they were doing.
I have had a zone disappear from the thermostat and it was a faulty RJ11 connector in the phone wire. The rectangular female connectors are often the culprit. But with my problem it didn't occur after 5 or 10 minutes. It was there right away when I turned on the thermostat.
The running 5 to 10 minutes seems to me to be the biggest clue as it usually points to something occurring because of heating or pressure. This would mean something is changing inside the AC housing and since it effects all units my first suspect would be the main control module. Consider fact that once the problem occurs all control via the thermostat is lost. The module crashes once it warms up??? Could also be a bad connector affected by heat but less likely.
Just using a logical process of elimination my bet is something is wrong with the control module. Has it been changed?
Oh and one other thing, many expert troubleshooters have been tripped up when they replaced a component with a brand new one that was bad out of the box.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046