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Coach Weight Ratings

Yahoo Message Number: 67882
Jim,

Your comments followed by mine.

Yes it is also the GVW when it leaves the factory. If you change something then to be truly legal you must have the coach re-certified. It is the factory stated GVW and GCVW that the authorities use to determine if you are overloaded. Coaches are seldom if ever forced to be weighed unless there is an obvious problem but that could change. Remember SD a few years ago.

Not if the hitch rating exceeds the difference between the GCVW and the GVW.

>

Because it is the legal stats for your coach.

To determine if you are on the road legally.

Coach owners do not have the information to determine the factory weight ratings themselves. I see nothing stupid about that.
The original post quoted a carrying capacity sometimes called the useable load rating by subtracting the GVW from the GCVW and that is incorrect. But the actual question asked was if Country Coach established the GVW excluding the weight of the slides I believe the correct answer is no but could be wrong.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Jim E

Quote from: robert harbrecht

> I think we need to explain Gross Vehicle Wieght (GVW) is
the max your Coach can weigh with everything you can put in it(water fuel junque etc).. Now the GCVW is the Gross Combination Vehicle Weight(ie coach & toad) toad can be trailer or what ever you put behind your coach. GCVW isn't Gross Cramed Vehicle Weight. Hope this helps clear up some misconceptions... bob X trucker '02 Magna 6028

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>

Quote from: "Don Seager"

>

> My second 40 ft Allure had a useful load
rating (CCC) of only 2800 lbs. As full timers it was very difficult to stay underweight. Overloading has a negative impact on both ride and handling over a coach that is not overloaded.

Quote

> My current 40 ft Allure
with tag has a CCC of 10,400 lbs and it has a third slide and is 11 inches longer. When heavy vehicles begin to approach the axle limitations for adding more load, the manufacturer of the vehicle has little choice but to get more bearing surface on the road. If the demand is there for bigger engines, more slides an so on then the increase cost of the tag is an unavoidable expense Time to visit the marketing people.

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> Don

Seager

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2004 Allure 31046

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67883
Don,

The manufacturers give you your axle rating. The tire ratings are provided by the tire manufacture. That tells you your gross vehicle weight(GVW). Your hitch is stamped with it's gross weight rating. Add the two and you get your GCVW. I believe if you have a 10,000# hitch your GCVW will be 10,000# more than your GVW. Same thing if your hitch is only 8,000#. Difference between the two ratings is 8,000#. I guess my point is the GCVW is always equal to the the axel and tires weight(GVW) plus the hitch rating. You stated this is not true. Then tell me what a MH's physical attributes determine the GCVW.

Jim E

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67884
CC drove the coaches over to the nearest weigh station with authorized scales with a known amount of fuel before they built the Dyno center, I was told at my first rally. That gave them The dry weight, which all of our government taxes are based on. That includes everything, slide rooms, air conditioners and accessories. The GVW is determined by the rating of the axles, tires, suspension, brakes and chassis design. The GCVW is the total weight of the coach and what the designers know the chassis can safely tow with out over heating etc. Now one thing that separates a CC from everyone else including gassers is the braking system is designed to handle the entire weight of the coach plus, the rated weight it is designed to pull. Not just 1,500 or 2,000 lbs like Ford and other gas powered chassis manufacturers. I've heard rumors from Monaco and Newmar owners that their braking systems are not designed to handle the GCWR. and that is one of the design parameters that set's CC apart from the rest. Its just like the wiring on our coaches in rated for 600 volts. I don't know if its rated to repel chemicals, where other coach manufacturers use lower voltage ratings. Our coaches wiring is marked at both ends and is not spliced in addition. Another good thing. TWI 2004 intrigue 11731

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67890
Jim,

I guess others have chimed in with enough info to indicate that the GCVW of a vehicle is not determined by the manufacturer adding a hitch rating to the GVW. The manufacturer calculates the GCVW as well as the GVW based on a number of physical parameters and then chooses a hitch with the closest rating that will not exceed the GCVW. A vehicle has a manufacture stated GCVW even if it never has a hitch installed.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67893
Don,

I don't know how a manufacturer calculates the GVW or GCVW other than knowing the weight of all the components that make up the MH. From that info they know what axel and tire capacity is required. Most manufacturers assembly their products from components supplied by others which includes the chassis and engine. Sometime in early 2000, I think, a few manufacturers started making their own chassis. Country Coach and Monaco are examples.
Check your hitch rating and GVW. More than likely they will equal the GCVW. I can't check mine because I don't have the placard which delineates this infor., nor does any of the literature I have.
If a MH comes with a stated GCVW and no hitch, how would the owner know how much he could pull? This will never be the case because, I believe, the GCVW is related and determined by the installed hitch capacity. The manufacturer must determine how much he wants the coach to pull. Once that is established, the chassis, engine, cooling system, etc. is specified and an appropriate hitch is installed. What's wrong with this thinking?

Jim E

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67902
Jim, what's wrong with your thinking on this subject is that it isn't correct. For example.

2004 Allure no tag.

GVWR = 33,400

Hitch rating 10,000
GCVWR = 40,400

You can see that the GCVWR is not necessarily the sum of GVWR and hitch rating.
Many coach builders built their own chassis long before 2000. Just for example Safari built their Magnum chassis as early as 1992 and possibly before that.

George in Birmingham(currently in Naples, FL) '04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67903
Jim,

I am not going to tell you something is wrong with your thinking. I can not at the moment verify anything about my coach because it is 1800 miles away for a few days. I do have the placarded GVW and the GVWR and I believe that my hitch also has a rating stamped on it if I can read it.
When I get back in a couple of days, if it ever stops snowing here in the Boston area, I will take a look and let you know what the numbers are.
If I bought a coach with no hitch I would research the GVWR for that year and model and then chose a hitch that did not exceed it.
I have enjoyed the discussion and will get back to you as soon as I get back to AL and offline as I believe that now the discussion is basically between you and I.

Thanks

Don Seager

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67905
George,

I wasn't sure when manufacturers started making their own chassis. I do have faint memory that Safari started earlier.
Just wondering, why would Country Coach put on a 10,000# hitch when it can only pull 7,000#. On your '04 Allure, what are your axel weight ratings, coach length and engine option?
I know some strange things started happening after Bob Lee sold out.

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67906
Jim, I don't think you understand the numbers correctly. I can tow up to 10,000 lbs so long as the total GCVW does not exceed the GCVWR of 40,400. My dry weight from the factory is 26,838. So I can easily stay below GCVWR with 10,000 in tow.
I was in error about my GVWR which is not 33,400 but is 33,200 and GCVWR is 40,200. My axle weights are 20,000 drive and 13,200 steer. Length is 33' but that is not relevant as the 36 footer has the same numbers. There were no engine options on the Allure in 2004. All were ISL. Early model year builds were 370HP and late model year builds were 400HP. Mine is early.
I don't know what you are talking about that strange things happened after Bob Lee sold the business. Once you understand the numbers you'll realize that there is nothing strange about the relationship of these ratings.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67908
George,

I stand corrected. I have learned a lot from this thread. I apologize.

Jim E

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67910
Gents:

I could be wrong, but I think Federal Law requires(ed) the numbers you are discussing to be posted in the coach and in one of your posts it is indicated to be on the inside of the bathroom medicine cabinet. I have owned 3 CC's: a 1985 36', a 1999 36' Allure and now a 2004 Intrigue Ovation. All the weights are(were) posted inside the subject cabinet including but not limited to: the weight of the coach, fresh water and fuel. The Intrigue is 125 miles away today so I can't give specifics, but the disclosure indicated Cargo Carrying Capacity where the earlier coaches were less forthcoming. I have included a copy of the 1999 Allure disclosure for your enjoyment. For sure the 2004 has more data in the disclosure.

Dale Ford

2004 Intrigue 11713

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67914
"A vehicle has a manufacture stated GCVW even if it never has a hitch installed."

This may be true, but Country Coach (the legal Final Manufacturer) was not able to provide the GCVWR for my coach. Gillig took a conservative guess at the max towing capacity, but they were not the Final Manufacturer.

Dean

95 Magna 5280
 

Re: Coach Weight Ratings

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67917
Jim, no need to apologize. These are important numbers that we all need to understand. I hope I was able to help.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298