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Aluminum Radiators

Yahoo Message Number: 72187
I have a couple of general questions regarding aluminum radiators:

1)If you have an aluminum radiator, is it just a matter of time before it starts failing or do some of them perform well over time?
2) what are the first signs of a failing aluminum radiator?
3) Is the only fix for a failed radiator total replacement?

I am considering purchase of a newer coach that has an aluminum radiator which is why I am asking.

Thank-you for your input,

Fred Compton

2002 Intrigue #11407

Re: Aluminum Radiators

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72189
We did a fair bit of research on this when we were looking for our coach and found,
1) everyone who contacted me had either replaced their Radiator or was having leak issues that needed to be dealt with, mind you , you never seem to hear from people that are not having issues but I was shocked at the amount of failures in a 400-700 thousand dollar coach.
2) the span between the tanks is more than the aluminum can take and eventually the spot where the crosstubes attach to the side tanks cracks from fatigue and flex.
3)Much of the cost is removal and installation so even if you found a competent welder to fix the cracks you would most likely have to do it again down the road incurring the large labor cost again.

Our aluminum rad was replaced with another aluminum one twice by Country Coach when it was their show coach. The third one failed as well and was replaced with a steel-copper one with bolt on tanks and has worked without issue for us.

Hope this helps, If you search there is lots of info.
Marc 05 affinity #6429

Re: Aluminum Radiators | Replaced mine...

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72194
I had to replace my original aluminum radiator after 7-ish years and about 45,000 miles. I went with steel and copper and the job had 16 hours of labor, so all in, it was an expensive ordeal.
I've noticed that the engine runs about 4-5 degrees cooler. Also, bear in mind that the steel and copper radiators are heavier than the aluminum ones, but it is no big deal CCC wise.

I got the radiator through Speciality Logistics.

Bill Ray

31104, 04 Allure, 33' Seaside, Cummins 400ISL 05 Liberty

Re: Aluminum Radiators

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72197
Fred,

I've been down the aluminum radiator replacement avenue once which I hope is it. My OEM radiator was made by JB Radiator Specialties in CA. You can get information on them here: http://jbrspecialties.com/ I'm not promoting them just providing information for you to examine. It may or may not be appropriate. Many places make radiators. There's nothing inherently wrong with aluminum as a core material. And their radiator seemed to be well made. But there's more to it than just the radiator itself.
On our bus the radiator is installed with the tanks vertical. Two right angle brackets (w/grommets) are welded to each of the tanks near the top. These hang the bulk of the radiator's weight and allow it to "float". Two more angle brackets welded to the bottom of the tanks keep the bottom from swinging. Threaded rods attach to the lower brackets with jam nuts for restraint and adjustment. I'd say from an engineering perspective the mounting of the radiator (ours in this case) reflects a gross lack of understanding on forces, vibration, stress and expansion. The result is eventual failure, the telltale signs being antifreeze smell followed by a visible leak. We came coasting into a remote rest stop (in TX) for a driver change only to notice a 3 foot diameter puddle of antifreeze. Opening the filler cap to relieve pressure was the only quick way to slow down the leak. Luckily our coolant temps didn't exceed 212 degrees for the balance of the trip.
Radiators are usually well supported underneath in rubber brackets, not hung. Owing to expansion and vibration they need to float in their mounts. With larger radiators more weight and resultant stress need to be handled (properly) by the mounting system. CC got it half correct (so common in the RV industry) as I don't think the radiator itself should be part of what holds it in place. This idea with a mounting system is to take force/stress off the radiator not add to it. Endeavoring to make the radiator become its own mounting bracket, a steel U channel was rigidly attached across the length of the aluminum core. Aluminum expands at a greater rate than steel when heated. This forces the cooling tubes into the header as the aluminum core expands beyond its steel restraint. The metal needs someplace to go. Over many heating and cooling cycles the tube/header connection fatigues and leaks. Inappropriate mounting stresses I'm sure only exacerbates the problem. Short of a complete replacement, there's no repair or fix.
Our replacement radiator is a copper core with steel tanks. So I don't know what's in store with that funky mix of metals. JB's radiator had an aluminum core and aluminum tanks. Be on your guard for "passing through town" quality. I've noticed no improvements in cooling capacity with the copper radiator. Modine and Harrison radiators were consistent with metals going back in the day.
The replacement cost us 9 days of lost travel, unpleasantness and over $5k out of pocket. As for the bad steel/aluminum mix (OEM unit) I don't know who engineered that one. JB Radiators was both rude and abrupt when I contacted them trying to find out. CC was in the throws of bankruptcy and useless. All of these vehicles (trailers right through to the Prevost) have issues. I think what distinguishes one from the other is the factory service and support to ensure the customer gets value and solutions not more problems and perpetual repair bills. That concept should apply to parts and components.
Hope this helps. I've got pictures of all this. Email me, if you're interested, and I'll send along the slide show link. Good luck.

At 07:27 AM 6/24/2011, you wrote:

Re: Aluminum Radiators

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72206
Fred,

Your coach is only 20 away from mine. I just went the replacement route at 86,000 miles. My new steel radiator was 3 large and 11 hours of labor. Some of the larger radiators can cost up to 7-8 large.
I would not let a cheap radiator keep me from buying a coach I wanted. I'd just plan for the future.
Oh, how do you tell if they are failing? They will start to leak. That is what mine did while I was setting in the parking lot at Oregon Motorcoach. How is that for luck!

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Aluminum Radiators

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72209
When you replace the radiator, do you get a new transmission cooler at the same time, or do the replacement rads have the trans cooler integrated?
I suppose another possibility is that not all original rads have the trans cooler welded to them to make a one piece unit.
I'd like to put some more miles on my radiator, but I am very uneasy about the risk of the coolant migrating to the transmission fluid. I don't want a $5k fix to become a $20k fix.

Mike 03 Lexa.

Re: Aluminum Radiators

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72214
In the case of the Lexa, I don't know if they are integral to the radiator or not. Most of the leaks are at the tank attachment points. There is a flat flange, then a gasket, and then the tanks are bolted to the radiator. In my case, the flange had corroded away to the point that the radiator repair guy said he could fix it but would not guarantee how long it would be before it would start leaking again.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Aluminum radiator

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72244
I have a 2001 Intrigue. After reading about the problems with aluminum radiators, I'm hoping my rig doesn't have one. I haven't had any problems yet. I was under the impression that this was something that CC put on newer coaches. Can anyone tell me what type of radiator I have in my coach?

Thanks in advance
Bob

2001 Intrigue, 11237

Re: Aluminum radiator

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72262
Bob,

The easiest way to tell what kind of radiator you have is to put a magnet up against the radiator. If it doesn't stick it is aluminum - if it does you don't have aluminum. Good Luck..
Safe Travels,
Kathy

'06 Inspire #51782

Re: Aluminum radiator

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72266
If you have a brass or copper radiator, a magnet will not cling to those either. I doubt that there are any copper radiators in our coaches. All I am saying is that a magnet is not a sure fire way to determine what metal you have.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Aluminum radiator

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72285
It is my understanding that in order to determine if the radiator, Charge Air Cooler (CAC), Hydraulic Radiator are made of aluminum, you must place the magnet on the side tank that is directly adjacent to the fins and NOT the fins themselves. I just spoke with the parts dept. at CC and they now have a different vendor for the replacement units. All the new units are copper/brass and NOT Aluminum. The cost for the entire assembly was $4,500 plus a crating/shipping charge of $325, the CAC alone was $2,250 and the Hydraulic Cooler alone was $1,488....unfortunately I did not get the price for the engine radiator alone. She said that most of the coaches did have an aluminum CAC, and Hydraulic radiator and that it was a "mixed bag" for the engine radiators.

Den 2001 Affinity #5972

Re: Aluminum radiator

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72292
Quote
Quote from: Dennis Zarnt"
Dennis,

Thanks for forwarding the information. But; your post needs a little more clarification. What if the fins are aluminum and the surrounding structure is steel. Or some other combination. In other words, where exactly is the problem? If the surrounding structure is aluminum and the fins are aluminum is there a potential problem? Fins are generally a soft metal like aluminum or maybe copper and if the surrounding structure is of the same material I don't understand where there is a problem. But steel structure and aluminum fins sounds like an issue. Just seeking clarification.
Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740
> It is my understanding that in order to determine if the radiator, Charge Air Cooler (CAC), Hydraulic Radiator are made of aluminum, you must place the magnet on the side tank that is directly adjacent to the fins and NOT the fins themselves. I just spoke with th
 

Re: Aluminum radiator

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 72309
It is my understanding that the CAC and the hydraulic cooling radiators were ALL aluminum, that is both the core and the side tanks. They did not use different metals, BUT the channels that hold these units were steel and if they were mounted with NO tolerance for movement due to heat expansion and contractions and/or no rubber mounts to take up vibrations, then you can over stress the units and get the cracks/failures.
The engine radiator was made of a copper/nickel core welded to steel tanks, but they do not seem to have the mounting or expansion/contraction problems that the aluminum elements had back then. My coach is a 2001 unit, so they used aluminum back then.
I'm getting it fixed as I write this note.......Can't wait to see the total, "bad news". :-(

Den 2001 Affinity Bed & Breakfast # 5972