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New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Yahoo Message Number: 75680
we're looking into replacement shocks for our 2004 Allure 33' and have read about over-extension of the shocks causing them to break. The "fix" is to install axle straps?? Has anyone done this?? Is it really necessary? Also which shocks? Koni, Bilstein or Road King? I know this last question will open a big can of worms! '04 Allure 33'
#31065

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75682
Recently broke both rear drive axle Koni shocks at 17000 total coach miles.. Shocks on front and tag axles appear to be OK. Am awaiting new units from factory and now have the straps to install. Have also been told that the cause is over-extension of the shocks thereby causing the shafts to fracture. Sounds like a bad design to me.

Roy Simmons

42' 2008 Intrigue 530 #12234

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75683
Roy, can you help us by saying whether your Tag Axle was raised at the time the Shocks broke? If so were you turning and/or at a strange angle when it happened. I'm trying to help a friend who has the same coach as yours.
This same thing happened on my Allure with Tag Axel raised going into a truck stop at a difficult angle, this several years ago.

Thank you, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75684
I have not yet added rear straps, but will.
I went with the Road Kings, very pleased that I did. (If you search on Koni or Road Kings, you will find earlier posts. I shared my research on the differences between the Koni SP1 (stock on 04 vintage), and the latest SP3. The Koni SP3 was my 2nd choice. I also added Motion Control Units.)

Best of luck on your research!
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75687
I drove over a large bump at about 35 mph and also over extended and broke both rear driver shocks and the left ride height valve linkage. When I replaced the shocks, I also installed control straps. Country coach should have installed these when manufactured.
John

08 Magna 6887

From: GSmith77_7

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:45 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

I have not yet added rear straps, but will.
I went with the Road Kings, very pleased that I did. (If you search on Koni or Road Kings, you will find earlier posts. I shared my research on the differences between the Koni SP1 (stock on 04 vintage), and the latest SP3. The Koni SP3 was my 2nd choice. I also added Motion Control Units.)

Best of luck on your research!
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75697
Where do you get the axle straps? Can CC tell us the correct length?

Bill Krause
06 Inspire

From: GSmith77_7

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

I have not yet added rear straps, but will.
I went with the Road Kings, very pleased that I did. (If you search on Koni or Road Kings, you will find earlier posts. I shared my research on the differences between the Koni SP1 (stock on 04 vintage), and the latest SP3. The Koni SP3 was my 2nd choice. I also added Motion Control Units.)

Best of luck on your research!
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75711
I purchased them from Country Coach Co. in Junction City, Or.
John

08 Magna 6887

From: Bill Krause

To: "Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Where do you get the axle straps? Can CC tell us the correct length?

Bill Krause
06 Inspire

From: GSmith77_7

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

I have not yet added rear straps, but will.
I went with the Road Kings, very pleased that I did. (If you search on Koni or Road Kings, you will find earlier posts. I shared my research on the differences between the Koni SP1 (stock on 04 vintage), and the latest SP3. The Koni SP3 was my 2nd choice. I also added Motion Control Units.)

Best of luck on your research!
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75712
Hi Bill, (Sorry I missed your post, until seeing the response...)

Henderson's has some available.

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/handling-and-suspension/koni-fsd-shock-limiting-straps-for-country-coach-drive-axle-shocks.html
But Don from this board, said to locate some that are made from metal, as the nylon straps could stretch over the years. I have not researched where those may be purchased from. (Perhaps the other post about Country Coach having some, may be the metal?) From memory, Country Boy's may have also had the metal straps available.
When I'm ready to do this, I'll also call OMC for input, and of course Kevin always seems to know where things can be found:)!

Please let us know if you find any metal available...

Best,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75734
Do all CC, no matter what year or model need or should have these straps installed?

Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 Mountains of So Cal

From: GSmith77_7 To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:35 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Hi Bill, (Sorry I missed your post, until seeing the response...)

Henderson's has some available.
http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/handling-and-suspension/koni-fsd-shock-limiting-straps-for-country-coach-drive-axle-shocks.html
But Don from this board, said to locate some that are made from metal, as the nylon straps could stretch over the years. I have not researched where those may be purchased from. (Perhaps the other post about Country Coach having some, may be the metal?) From memory, Country Boy's may have also had the metal straps available.
When I'm ready to do this, I'll also call OMC for input, and of course Kevin always seems to know where things can be found:)!

Please let us know if you find any metal available...

Best,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

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Dave & Jodi
2007 CC Allure 40’ Tag #31495
2012 Jeep GC
Big Bear Lake, Ca & Henderson, Nev

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75740
Dave

I have made a number of trips to Mexico and its famous TOPES (speed bumps) and have not had issues with shocks over extending. Maybe I didn't go over them fast enough.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75743
My understanding regarding limiting straps came from a CC rally in Oregon. The mechanical design engineer Stated don't raise your tag and live with the tag scrub unless on level ground less chance of extension damage especially with the heavy coachs and bigger engines Bob 06 intrigue 12047

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75746
A little off subject, but related to tag axles. When the tag axle is raised (pushing the button) is it completely off the ground or just enough to take pressure off of the wheel. My understanding is that you do this when backing up into a parking space. Or is there other times you need to raise the tag axle?
Thanks

Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 Mountains of So Cal

From: "bobozich@..." To: "Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

My understanding regarding limiting straps came from a CC rally in Oregon. The mechanical design engineer Stated don't raise your tag and live with the tag scrub unless on level ground less chance of extension damage especially with the heavy coachs and bigger engines Bob 06 intrigue 12047

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Dave & Jodi
2007 CC Allure 40’ Tag #31495
2012 Jeep GC
Big Bear Lake, Ca & Henderson, Nev

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75747
I can't answer if all rigs raise the tag all the way up, but our 04 Allure's tag is not making contact when raised.
Tight turns are the key, forward or backwards. As the tight turns result in the tire scrub of the tag, as it swings around the rear pivot point of the drive wheels.
If I'm going thru a parking lot with tight turns, or into a campground with tight turns - I raise the tag and just leave it up as I slowly drive to the location. Quite often, backing into a space at an RV Park, is another opportunity to raise the tag.
Others may have a more scientific method of determining when to raise the tag - so I'll read other answers too:)!

Best,

Smitty 04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75751
Lonnie and Dianne,

I don't think you need the straps. Every failure from over extension I have heard of is a failure of drive axle shocks on a three axle coach. I also have the 33' Seaside. I have put 112,000 miles on since new. I have max raised the rear more times than I can count without shock failure.
If this problem exists on two axle coaches someone will inform us of that.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75752
Watch your mud flap if you raise your tag when backing up. When you raise your tag you lose your ride height. Good example, Colton Truck the approach to the bays is up hill and that has caught more than one mud flap if you are trying to turn in to the bay with your tag up.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75755
George,

The problem that caused my coach to break both rear drive axle shocks is not related to the fact that my coach has 3 axles. On my coach the drive axle shocks are mounted such that the shocks run out of extension before the air bags run out of lift. This puts a tremendous strain on the shock as the air bags continue to try and lift the suspension. I have heard the condition referred to as 'Hyperextension' The hardened steel rod cannot bend so when hyperextended it takes only the slightest lateral motion of the suspension to snap the rod.
In a shop we could easily see the problem when we raised and lowered the coach with the top of the shocks disconnected. With the coach fully raised the shocks, when fully extended by hand, were at least 1/2 inch below their studs on the frame.
The problem is not unique to CC coaches nor is it necessarily a design flaw. The fact that limiting straps/chains are readily available should say something for that fact. I had a long conversation with Koni and indeed their suggestion was limiting straps or chains. They favored chains because they do not stretch over time as straps might. I didn't pursue the topic any further than that.
I never installed the straps or chains because I believe that I have a good feel for the cause of my original problem. I now know what to do when I proceed up my steep drive and have had no further problems. I simply did not want to further limit the ability to level my coach when possible.
Whenever I discuss my shock absorber experience I always mention the fact that I drove the coach all over the country for 18 months and didn't realize that both rear drive axle shocks were broken. I did not detect any difference with them broken, I also could not detect any difference once they were replaced.
My experience, not advice, is that if you want to play around with what shock provide the best ride stick to messing around with the front axle. Personally I don't know what value the rear drive axle shocks provide except to prevent the suspension from pulling the air bags off their mounts should it drop into a deep hole.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75760
Don,

I had you in mind when I replied to the shock question.
I don't pretend to know the dynamics for shock breakage. It may well be that drive axle shocks are mounted differently on tag axle coaches than on non-tags. Or, it may be that the tag axle provides either additional lifting force or lifting distance. I only know that, so far, I have never hears of a shock breakage from over extension on a non tag coach. I know that will be corrected if it is wrong.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298
 

Re: New Shocks and Axle Straps??

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75761
George - It's kind of funny, that though I only mentioned Don in my posts, I had also thought of you on this subject too. (And of Sir Lee, who gets his fingers into many areas and boards:)!) Don was nice enough to not only PM me on this, and many subjects - but was also nice enough to do private emails as he helped me dry the new to Country Coach (and DP's too) wetness from behind my ears.
Still very much a rookie, know that, but it is the kindness of so many of you on this board past and present - that helps me and many others, along in our journey.
My best to you two CC-Yahoo board members, and so many of the others. May you all have a safe and good Turkey Day!

Best to all, a very appreciative,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

(Sure, perhaps some kissing up - as I know I will need help soon, as it is my nature:)!)
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)