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My Allure Page - Cost of ownership

Yahoo Message Number: 82029
C Grif:

We have been using class A RV's since 1975 our first rig being a gas powered Winnebago we affectionately named the rolling out house - that was later in life when compared to what is built today. We have owned 2 gas rigs and 3 diesel pushers in that time. So the opinions expressed here are based on over 45 years and hundreds of thousands of miles.
The most important recommendation I have is unless you have very deep pockets you really, really need to enjoy doing things yourself. Lots of us jokingly claim that RV should stand for Repair Vehicle. While the quality of the rig is important both for the frequency of problems and cost to repair/maintain, the fact remains that every day you move one is the same as subjecting it to a hurricane and earthquake. Nothing can withstand that indefinitely. Unfortunately, the vast majority of RV dedicated repair facilities assume everyone who owns such a vehicle must be in the first group with bottomless bank accounts. Not all operate on this assumption but most do and it's not unique to RV repairs at all but some businesses feel anyone not local is fair game for some serious gouging. That's just a fact of life.
You expressed concern about the apparent frequency and cost of repairs based on messages posted to this and I assume other messaging groups. While some trends can identified these accounts are in no way an indication of any universal truths. Only those with problems will even consider sharing their adventures so those with little or no problems are essentially silent and unavailable as a source of data to indicate what it would cost you, personally, to own and operate an RV.
I am a firm believer is maintenance. Failure to perform routine maintenance and probably more important, inspection of the overall condition of the rig will result in some expensive lessons. That said I am also a very firm believer in if it ain't broke, don't fix it. As an example there is a potential problem with certain construction methods for radiators. Some were manufactured with multiple types of materials such as aluminum and plastic and/or the use of adhesives in lieu of solder/welding. Some have made the decision to replace these radiators before a problem develops; I don't think that is a fair item to include as a predictable or necessary repair. Some have also replaced what is advertised by the manufacturer as a lifetime coolant. Everyone is free to spend their money any way they wish and if it helps them sleep better at night, they probably should do this kind of proactive repair. But it isn't appropriate to conclude that everyone needs to do this. Our rig is over 8 years old and we still have the original radiator and coolant. Considering these systems don't usually catastrophically fail, they seep or leak slowly; I won't part with any cash until they do and this is an example why periodic inspection is a requirement.
On the other side, something that can fail with no warning with catastrophic results on some models is the PTO - please check out the document in the files section titled PTO 101 to learn what is the problem here. But this is an example where I do recommend and did fix proactively and the job can be done DIY if you can change the starter in a 1970's big block car.
There is much more that could be discussed, these are complex vehicles essentially combining a medium duty truck with a house and adding a bunch more systems.
As for these expensive rigs requiring more repairs and expense than would seem appropriate there is no question the RV industry is far behind the automotive and electronics industries. But I also think that is an unfair comparison since nearly every RV above the most basic pop-ups is a custom designed and built vehicle. It would be prohibitively expensive to design and build RV's using automotive quality assurance models, if not downright impossible.
But, our experience over nearly 50 years of RVing is that, particularly for the two Country Coaches we have owned, they are the most comfortable, reliable, enjoyable RVs we have had. Coming home from a trip with the gas coaches would include a notebook with, usually, at least two pages of items to fixed or adjusted. Getting them ready for a trip usually included some new exhaust system parts, battery/charging problems, water/tank leaks, body leaks and on and on. For our Country Coach we unload it, put it in the community storage lot and park it. I start it up once in a while, in eight plus years it has failed to start once because a battery died (I lost count on the gas coaches), load it with whatever we need for the trip, check the air all around, do an inspection and hit the road.
We have nearly 50,000 miles on our CC with zero significant repairs (batteries, tired because of age, light bulbs, etc.). I do everything I can myself and we have never had more fun or enjoyment from the greatest way to travel there is.
So, my bottom line? Buy the best rig you can afford (based on quality and condition) and stay away from RVs with all the bells and whistles and enjoy the heck out of it. CC is one of the best, regardless of year, we've owned both the older and "newer"? models. Each has its own good and bad features.
Finally, it's your money and the peace of mind argument is a factor but we have never purchased an extended warranty for anything (unless it as a hard disk drive) and left that money in the bank. If you can't sleep at night without one, life is too short to worry yourself to death but for heaven's sake, read every single word of the actual policy, not the sales propaganda, and make the best decision possible. Most extended warranty companies exist to collect money, not pay it out and the only way to assess that is to read the contract. Even then it might be difficult to collect but don't lose the fight before even having a claim.

Bob

'05 Inspire 51178
'05 JGC

Re: My Allure Page - Cost of ownership

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82068
Nicely written, Bob, and packed full of good information and advice. I find myself re-reading your comments about Country Choaches just to make myself feel good about owning one.

George Harper
04 Allure
31093
 

Re: My Allure Page - Cost of ownership

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 82073
Cost of ownership/travel are difficult to nail down. At 6 MPG and $4/gal fuel it's $0.66 per mile. Throwing out a wild ass guess I'd say figure $1.50 to $2.00 per mile to cover the basic costs (fuel + repairs + consumables). Owners of new busses need to figure in a stiff price point for depreciation. All ages of vehicles have it, however. But as previously stated here, it costs bread to keep up a well maintained bus. And I couldn't agree more. But where is the money going, how much of it goes to quality and can improvements be made?? We are in our 5th year of ownership and 4th+ year of full timing. Certainly not at the higher levels of experience. But we've all been there and others are considering jumping in from 0. I continue to ponder. How can we get better products, value and service life? Do better solutions exist? If so, which ones make the best sense for owners and builders? Good design is best up front (me thinks) but retrofits can be good too. But when retrofits become band aids (read Norcold here), then something is wrong. As of late, the repair bills just keep on coming with no end in sight. Do we just keep on paying or is it time to start asking some hard probing questions? Personally I think it's a great time for transparency, education and some rethinking on what's working and what isn't. As for expenses, we had them back in the home ownership days too but it's a bit different. For starters, the house didn't depreciate it doubled in value. Small point but BIG difference when it's time to move on. As for motor homes, better service life, ease of maintenance, less hassles and fewer infant mortalities of components means a more stable investment. Seems a laudable idea and of benefit to many.
It's true that physical stress and mechanical shock have degrading effects on some equipment. But not in all cases. The poorly selected plastic parts in the Hydro-Hot stir pump had nothing to do with getting moved (or bounced) around. Same can be said for failed Cummins ISL connecting rods and radiators. Throw in the $500 sealed turbine motor whose $2 brushes can't be serviced. My point is certain components and assemblies can see significant increases in trouble free service life with just a tad more effort, design integrity and a few more bucks. For example, the tank level switch in the Hydro-Hot (price $150) shouldn't have a cheap plastic float. See article here: http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107#Post107 A brass one would have lasted much much longer. I'm working on a brass after market float for this switch. I'll post an article whence completed. Where it can't be avoided, parts known to wear out need some thought given to ease of replacement. We need good solutions not just replacement parts packaged to delay the next break down. And I'm all about paying a fair price for quality and supporting a "for profit" business model. But without a watchdog and/or restoring force in the market, plan on seeing hard earned dollars just slipping away. Slipping, that is, into someone else's pocket with no value received by the end user.
But there is also a market out there where folks buy three $3 screw drivers instead of the one for $7.50 that will last forever. Hey.... it's your wallet. Spend as you see fit. I say let's buy 'em for $1 and sell for $0.99 and let the volume make up for it.

At 06:27 PM 8/29/2012, you wrote: