Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Leveling blocks on a tag axle (Read 2452 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Yahoo Message Number: 86173
Pursuant to a recent discussion about use of leveling blocks, I was wondering... If you block up your rear dualies on both sides to raise the rear so you can then achieve air leveling front to rear, do you NEED to put blocks under both the dualies AND the tag? Or is just blocking under the dualies enough? Our rear weight fully loaded is 25240 pounds, so 25240/4 = 6,310 lbs per tire and Michelin rates these tires with dualies at around 13,500 per axle end at 115 psi which is about 27,000 lbs on the rear axle with 4 295/80R x 22.5 tires if my calculations are correct. So we would be within the weight limit on the 4 tires. Obviously with the tag axle down and two more of these same tires, we are wayyyy under weight when traveling, but what about when parked? Even though the load on the 4 dualies is theoretically not excessive, is it permissible to leave the tag axle up in the air? I'm sure it would be ideal to block both axles, but this means carrying a whole lot more blocking and space is tight. Any advice on this would be much appreciated.
It takes a lot of blocking to block up these tires, especially since the idiots at Camco made their blocks just 8" wide on top and my 295/80R x 22.5 Michelin tread is a full 9" wide. I'm sure 315's as used on some of big flagship coaches are even wider. I KNOW you are never supposed to use blocks under a tire that do not support the entire tread of the tire. Tire overhang is a major NO-NO for the lifespan of your tire. On a coach with air leveling, it works great to a point but unfortunately not all RV parks offer sites which are level enough to get adequate leveling with the 12" spread that air leveling offers. With no auxiliary jacks, then, the only option is to use some kind of blocking under the tires on the low end. I just went through this at Thousand Trails up near Sedona AZ. Nice enough park otherwise but little effort was put into providing level pads.
I appreciated one forum member's mention of Horse stall pads. I went right out and bought a 4x6 mat. Unlike his, this stuff here is solid rubber about 1" thick with no ribs. It was easy to cut with a razor knife. Making the first cut on top of a wood picnic table and then pulling it over to hang over the edge to spread the cut for successive cuts was another great tip. I didn't really want to try to cut up as much rubber as he did through, and since I already have three sets of ten of the interlocking Camco blocks, I decided the horse stall mats would make great bases to set on the gravel to then build an interlocking ramp on with the Camco blocks.
Since the Camco blocks are about 8" wide on top, and the tread on my dualies spans around 21", in order to get full block support under both dualies (again you NEVER want to support only one) I cut two 28" wide pads off the 6' length. This would allow me to build three interlocking ramps of 5 block each with the Camco blocks to set side by side on the pad, using 15 blocks per side, plenty wide enough for the duallies. A double height ramp two blocks long on top and 3 on the bottom requires 5 blocks. The front tires require a double row of the 8" blocks for my 9" wide 295/80R x 22.5 Michelins so 10 blocks per tire. 20 total. The dualies require 3 rows or 15 blocks per dualie... 30 total then for the the drive axle.
My cuts of the rubber pads left me one 14" wide pad left over, which is more or less wide enough to support one front wheel in addition to the dualies if it were ever needed. I am currently using only one double row pad on the left front tire... and with that assistance the coach then levels fine with air leveling. I only have 20 total so I need to order at least one more set of ten to handle both dualies for a double height ramp and another set of ten to do one more front wheel is fore-aft plus side to side off level.
So two more sets of 10 Camco blocks are $30 each on Amazon prime or Walmart. And my current set of pads will be fine. BUT..., and this is the crux of this post... if I need to ALSO block the tag axle if blocking the dualies, then I need two additional sets of blocks PLUS additional rubber mats.
I know some people will say that cutting up pressure treated 2x10 would work instead of the Camco blocks, and I have used those in the past, but it takes a LOT of wood which is quite heavy, and wide lumber tends to warp which means it will split over time (have had that happen) PLUS storage is a major issue. They absorb water in humid conditions, and then when they dry out again, if stored in an underbay, the evaporating moisture is laden with some kind of chemical which corrodes the hell out of any exposed metal. I made the mistake of storing a bunch of it in a mostly empty electrical bay on my old coach and saw a lot of corrosion start to build quickly. Disaster! So no way will I go that route again. Camco blocks, are nice and light weight, plenty strong enough if support properly and do not absorb moisture. Now it is just a question of how many I need to keep on hand to be well covered.
Anyone with experience is this matter who can comment would be much appreciated. I would just ask Les Schwab, but I think this is more of an axle question than a tire question

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86176
Way back when, 1998, when we purchased our 36' Allure, we found in some cases we needed some type of blocks to level the coach. So I made two 3 3/4" high single blocks from 3/4" marine ply for the front and one more wide enough for the duals. The slope was 30 degrees for access and about 50 degrees when I drive off. Both have an island between the slopes about 14 inches. They worked great for almost 6 years. When I purchased the 42 ft. 04 intrigue in late 03, I added a third single block like the first two for the tag. I changed the gradual slope of 30 degrees to 45 degrees to take up less storage space. Since then only once have I had to stack a single riser on top of the dual riser at a park in Flag staff Arizona. We travel 5 to 6 months the year and only have to use the blocks a couple of times a year. Middle-bury in Amish Country was the last time I had to use all the blocks. Our favorite park in Durango requires blocks if we park under the trees near or behind the office. The blocks are painted green and should have rope lines tied to them for ease of handling, but haven't gotten around to it. I always support the tag if I have my block under a dual. My Blocks were originally made for 275 R70 with an inch or two extra in width, now that I have 315's on the Intrigue I have to be very precise to prevent the dreaded over hang. I guess one of these days the Elmers wood glue and 4" deck screws will fail, but I'm OK now.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86207
I have it on very good authority from someone very familiar with Country Coach in a professional capacity, that "It is OK for the tag axle tires to be suspended. If you had more of a weight issue it might be a concern however if you are under the tire max capacity there is really no problem with just blocking the drive axle."

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86208
I question the wisdom of running with the tag tires suspended.
The only benefit I see is no wear on the tag tires (by the way my tag tires lasted long enough to age out just like the drive tires).

The negatives I see are:

  • The raised tag tires shift the weigh distribution to the rear, which lightens the front and could likely effect the front steering in a negative, destabilizing manner;
  • A drive axle blowout could be harder to control, with 3 good tires on the ground instead of 5;
  • A drive axle blowout with the tag tires down gives a better chance to drive slowly to a safe location rather than on 3 tires;
  • The blocked tag tire mechanism could freeze up if not exercised.
So, what am I missing?
Lee
--

Lee (leozbrowski@...) 2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153
CAT C-13

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86210
On my Intrigue the tag will automatically lower at about 10 MPH or so. I don't think one can run down the road with the tag raised.

dan 06 Intrigue 11936

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86214
The tag drops when the transmission shifts out of first into second gear, so if your running around a parking lost or RV park with tight turns place your transmission in first gear manually until your ready to resume normal operation, then you won't wear your tires and the tag won't be constantly going up or down when you need it up.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86225
It appears there was some misunderstanding of my post. The original post had to do with the use of leveling blocks under the wheels to allow more rise than the 12" travel provided with air leveling, for use in unlevel sites. And that post was pursuant to earlier discussion about leveling in RV Parks. I was NOT suggesting running without the tag wheels down. I don't think that is even possible without modifications, because as Thomas writes, the tag automatically drops when the coach travels above 5 mph.
My question had to do with whether you need to put blocks under the tag axle wheels if you block the drive axle, or whether it is ok to leave the tag axle wheels suspended above the ground. Obviously there is no downside to blocking the tag axle as well as the drive axle, but due to the size of support pads needed for the dualies, the storage space for all this blocking is considerable. I inquired with those who should know, and the official word is that *if* your rear axle weight is within the tire weight limits on the dualies, there is no need to block the tag axle as well.

I hope that clarifies my post.

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86230
The reason I block my tag has to do with Murphy's law. It seems that when I block the duals its always on soft ground and as I'm leveling the tags always drop back to travel position they either dig them selves a nice whole in some circumstances or allow the duals further into the soft ground, so I gave up and block both. Just a matter of habit now I guess. But your right the block for the duals in one piece can be a heavy challenge when we get older and are parked on adverse surfaces. Remember in my case I don't have jacks.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86243
Hi Thomas

The only reason I would block my rear end at all would be if the rear end of the rig were too low for the HWH Air leveling to raise it up to level with the dropped front end. Fortunately this is not too often. We try to stay away from those kinds of parks and spaces. 8 or 9 times out of 10, the Air Leveling will automaticaly get the coach level (like where we are right now in Valencia, Calif.) But the last place we were in Cottonwood AZ, near Sedona, was a Thousand Trails, and as anyone knows who uses those places they are often terrible when it comes to level pads. We drove the entire park with a list of available big rig 50amp spaces and picked the best one and I still had to block my left front tire to get the air leveling to do its thing. That's why the whole thing came up and why I posted in the first place.
As I wrote, with 295/80R x 22.5 tires, a single plastic leveling block is not wide enough to avoid the dreaded tire overhang so you needs double rows on the front, triple rows for the drive axle dualies (had I needed them) and then another double row for the tag if you were gonna block them as well. And I had taken the one member's suggestion and purchased a horse stall pad for a base to then build on with the camco blocks. And as you said, those big hunks of rubber are fairly heavy to drag around. I stay away from wood for reasons already explained. But whether wood or stall pads and blocks, this requires a lot of storage for all the wheels which is why I was relieved to learn that it is unnecessary to block the tag axle when blocking the dualies, as long as your rear weight is not too heavy for the 4 295/80R x 22.5 tires, which in our case, it is not.
I was kind of surprised not more members responded on the post as surely everyone has the identical concerns since most newer Country Coaches only have the Air leveling. But no matter, I got the answer from the right source who would know... and this cuts down a little on the amount of blocking I need to keep on hand, I am happy to say.

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86274
You guys need to be more careful of the neighborhood where you hang out. In five years with my air levelers I have never had to block and I have never seen blocks under a Country Coach. Maybe that is the reason for so few comments. Just poking fun.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle [neighborhood selection]

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86280
A lot depends on where you go. If you stick to high end resort in places like Indio, you won't need blocks, but I cannot imagine why we would ever spend more than 2-3 days in Indio. We are not your average RV'ers. We're sailors who take our Catalina 22 sailboat to different lakes and travel in our Coach as a place to stay.
So our first point of research is ALWAYS where are the best marina options for sailing in and out of. And then, after that, where is the nearest decent RV Park, with a HIGH preference for ones where you do not have to travel to see the wind conditions on the lake. Those are our top criteria.
Sometimes we're lucky and have a great park with nice level pads at reasonable prices right adjacent to the marina. We're headed to Clear Lake CA in April and Knocti Vista Casino Resort there is exactly that... they even have their own marina for free use by RV Park and hotel people. Blackwell RV in Coeur d'Alene is another good park where we will be for the month of June and although the marina is around the bend half a mile, you can see the lake and wind conditions from the park.
But quite often we are not so lucky and the only RV Park close to the marina may present a few challenges like not so level pads... and if you are there in high season, you may not have many options. And like many of the Thousand Trails parks, the spaces may not be too level and the HWH Air leveling will just pump and pump in a vain effort to get the coach level... hence leveling blocks under the tires are the only answer. If anyone has an alternate suggestion I would love to hear it, but pretty sure that's all she wrote

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle [neighborhood selection]

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86281
I have the same issues with parks with a view of the Pacific Ocean, the Gulf of Texas, coast of Maine, New Hampshire and the Great Lakes. Some spots like Out door resorts are great and then there are the others. I don't mind the others and actually prefer them sometimes, but leveling, sewer hook ups, and power issues all come into play especially in the North east. I'm glad I'm not driving that 52' Class C that was on the Travel Channel the other night. Talking about parking issues.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle REDUX

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86310
Just a quick postscript on this topic. Just say no to Camco. I had mentioned Camco Leveling blocks available from Amazon. They are absolute and total junk. They come in yellow lego style squares similar in appearance to the ones from Camping World, and I mistakenly thought that's where I had bought the ones I had. But I ordered some more to have on hand as it takes a double row of 5 to block a front tire and a triple row of 5 to block a pair of dualies. But when they arrived I realized they were not the same pattern as what I had.
But worse than that they have the wall thickness of a beer can... less than half the thickness of the sturdy blocks from Camping World and when I opened the bag to see, one was cracked and broken in shipment! I could only imagine what woiuld happen if I loaded 10,000 lbs of Country Coach onto them. Returned them to Amazon and wentover to Camping World and bought some more there, identical to what I already had and have been quite pleased with. And like already wrote, similar to another forum member, I purchase a 4'x6' thick rubber horse stall pad and cut it into three pads the right size to block up to two dualies and one front tire if it should ever been needed. Thousand Trails, I am ready for you!

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/
 

Re: Leveling blocks on a tag axle REDUX

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86366
I have not found anything mfg. by Camco that is worth the time and trouble to have it shipped to me for use with our rigs. I've always thought that they make things for people with pop up tent trailers and lightweight travel trailers, so I was not surprised that you were not happy with the product.
I'm late in reading your post and would have responded the same as your second responder did, so I think you got your answer regarding support on the tags. I would just add that if you block the tandem axles and forget to raise the tags - w/o blocks under them - then you may damage your shocks on the tag axle from over extension, so don't forget to raise them up.

Best to you - hope this helps a bit.

Pete

03 Allure #30916